Politics The General Election 2015

[Gwadien]

Speaking of nationalisation.

Did anyone watch that documentary on Trains by the old assistants on the Apprentice?

It's quite interesting to see that the only nationalised part of the rail service is the part that's the failure.

Also, One of the few railway line companies that invest into our railways is owned by a Nationalised German Railway company, lel.

I think we should either go totally one way, or the other, half & half doesn't seem to work.

 

[Bodhi]

Someone said drug and Bodhi got his syringe out.

Only because it looked like time for your medication again.

 

[Raven]

Speaking of nationalisation.

Did anyone watch that documentary on Trains by the old assistants on the Apprentice?

It's quite interesting to see that the only nationalised part of the rail service is the part that's the failure.

Also, One of the few railway line companies that invest into our railways is owned by a Nationalised German Railway company, lel.

I think we should either go totally one way, or the other, half & half doesn't seem to work.

One could argue that it is now cheaper to buy a beat up old car in Scotland, fill it with petrol and drive it to London than it is to take the train. Thus making the complete system a failure.

Either way it is far cheaper to drive than take the train and more often than not, far less hassle.

 

[Gwadien]

One could argue that it is now cheaper to buy a beat up old car in Scotland, fill it with petrol and drive it to London than it is to take the train. Thus making the complete system a failure.

Either way it is far cheaper to drive than take the train and more often than not, far less hassle.

Indeed, it seems the whole damn system is ridiculously flawed, the travel companies (such as Virgin) get away with shit because they're not responsible for delays, nor are they responsible for having shit trains, yet they make ridiculous amounts of money.

 

[Bodhi]

One could argue that it is now cheaper to buy a beat up old car in Scotland, fill it with petrol and drive it to London than it is to take the train. Thus making the complete system a failure.

Either way it is far cheaper to drive than take the train and more often than not, far less hassle.

Fully agree the prices are getting daft, but it's not just Network Rail influenced stuff, last time I went to Paris I tried the Eurostar, and it was a great experience, but sadly more expensive than flying when taking into account the train from Stafford to Euston.

Shame, as the Eurostar goes nowhere near CDG Airport, which can only be a good thing.

 

[Gwadien]

I know the main argument for the failure of the trains is that they shouldn't be ran like a conventional business, they should be running at a loss (which they are now) - They shouldn't cater for predictions, and get the minimal amount of carriages and stuff and that having empty carriages is a good thing, not a bad thing.

I'm not entirely sure this is an excellent idea, but that being said, imagine the economic knock-through that could have if our trains were a top-notch service, less cars on the road in general, meaning that things flow more, generating more money?

The more I think about it, the less I like the HS2 idea, we should really be improving the standing service before adding more.

 

[Moriath]

As the program point out compared to other euro countries we are 40% less efficient than them on our railways. So that more cost for the same thing. A lot more cost.

Need to drive efficiencies through network rail and the train operators. But it wont happen.

And i think it should be one price for a journey. Not all this book ten years in advance shit.

 

[Gwadien]

As the program point out compared to other euro countries we are 40% less efficient than them on our railways. So that more cost for the same thing. A lot more cost.

Need to drive efficiencies through network rail and the train operators. But it wont happen.

And i think it should be one price for a journey. Not all this book ten years in advance shit.

Well yeah, exactly, the reason why you have to book in advance is because there's usually limited seats, there should be more seats.

I think this is a problem we have to throw money at, invest absolute fuck loads into it, not fanny around doing bit by bit, but as @Scouse mentioned - austerity.

Frankly, we could come out of this shit-storm with an excellent infrastructure for trains, even if all the train companies melt into the ground, the metal will remain which won't be hard to find people willing to chuck trains on them.

 

[Job]

Wtf is going on with trains, at the most they run every 15 mins, imagine standing by a busy road to work, watching 300 cars go by, then waiting 15 mins for the next 300, fuking rip up the tracks, sell the steel , lay down tarmac and put buses and cars on...problem solved.

 

[Gwadien]

Wtf is going on with trains, at the most they run every 15 mins, imagine standing by a busy road to work, watching 300 cars go by, then waiting 15 mins for the next 300, fuking rip up the tracks, sell the steel , lay down tarmac and put buses and cars on...problem solved.

No.

 

[Scouse]

And I'd just point out that the country that had the most famous revolution in history to destroy the divide between rich and poor, is, 99 years later, the most unequal country on Earth...

Well - to be fair to the yanks, they lost the revolution the minute the Federal Reserve was created.

But yep - legislation could certainly narrow the gap. Starting with 100% inheritance tax for anything over 1 million.

Your kids get to be millionaires for zero work - but if they want to be any richer they can pull their fingers out and do it for themselves...

 

[Job]

Poor old Ed, threw the whole thing in the bin by stumbling at the end.

https://vine.co/v/e7J0xnQMVvt

 

[Gwadien]

Poor old Ed, threw the whole thing in the bin by stumbling at the end.

https://vine.co/v/e7J0xnQMVvt

So Ed can throw the election in the bin by falling over.

But Farage will still have your vote by having known neo-Nazis in the party at some point or another?

Okay.

 

[Moriath]

So Ed can throw the election in the bin by falling over.

But Farage will still have your vote by having known neo-Nazis in the party at some point or another?

Okay.

At some point or other. Knda non specific.

 

[Scouse]

At some point or other. Knda non specific.

That the best you can do? Complain that gwad can't remember when?

You could, of course, swallow your surprise and revulsion at the idea and do a little cursory googling and find out it's true...

 

[Job]

I keep forgetting I have moved house and am now in a ward with only a 4000 labour majority, so I'll be voting Tory.

 

[Raven]

That the best you can do? Complain that gwad can't remember when?

You could, of course, swallow your surprise and revulsion at the idea and do a little cursory googling and find out it's true...

As opposed to parties that have had convicted child molesters and fraudsters as members?

All parties are chock full of wrong'uns, that's why (for the most part) they become politicians.

But yeah, 3rd biggest party in England come May, keep it up.

 

[Scouse]

I figured our resident UKIP apologist would take umbrage. UKIP will have the same problems as all the other parties re: paedo's and fraudsters - those type of people are everywhere and don't discriminate on party lines.

UKIP has the *additional* problem of being very right-wing - so it'll attract the BNP vote, have neo-nazi's in the party etc.

Yes - it'll be the 4th biggest party (behind the SNP) - but that's just representative of the amount of bigoted retards we have in this country that will vote for them - alongside well meaning but gullible twats who can't see the party for what it is.

But you defending them from accusations of the truth at every turn is getting really silly - all I did was tell moriath that gwadien was right. You dont get neo nazi's in any of the other parties - they've jumped for UKIP because the BNP became defunct.

Your apologism for that is just plain weird - like we're not supposed to talk about it. - Your efforts at shutting this talk down legitimises UKIP.

 

[Mabs]

this is why people dont like your right wing cunt of a leader UKIP fans

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...deal-with-far-right-to-save-european-grouping

 

[Raven]

I figured our resident UKIP apologist would take umbrage. UKIP will have the same problems as all the other parties re: paedo's and fraudsters - those type of people are everywhere and don't discriminate on party lines.

UKIP has the *additional* problem of being very right-wing - so it'll attract the BNP vote, have neo-nazi's in the party etc.

Yes - it'll be the 4th biggest party (behind the SNP) - but that's just representative of the amount of bigoted retards we have in this country that will vote for them - alongside well meaning but gullible twats who can't see the party for what it is.

But you defending them from accusations of the truth at every turn is getting really silly - all I did was tell moriath that gwadien was right. You dont get neo nazi's in any of the other parties - they've jumped for UKIP because the BNP became defunct.

Your apologism for that is just plain weird - like we're not supposed to talk about it. - Your efforts at shutting this talk down legitimises UKIP.

You keep calling me an apologist (presumably in some weak attempt to insult, baffling though!) yet they will still come 3rd in England ahead of the lib debs. While I know you don't like a good fact to get in the way of your blustering, it is still a fact. I don't support UKIP, I think on the whole they are a bunch of despicable cunts, unfortunately they happen to have some facts on their side that they use to their advantage and growing support from all walks of life. How saying that is defending them, or apologising for them, I don't know. Maybe you would care to explain? Try and take a step away and think what you want to say rather than being an angry shouty man and making yourself look silly..

Its pretty typical of a lefty to accuse someone who sees the bigger picture as defending them, sad but typical.

As said, yelling and bawling like a child isn't going to change that.

 

[Scouse]

Who cares if it's going to be the third biggest party "in England" - these are the United Kingdom elections and it's going to come in a distant 4th at best.

The rest isn't shouting - I merely pointed out that every time someone criticises UKIP for being what they are (and I didn't say racist - I simply confirmed they have had neo-nazi members - which is both true and unsurprising for a party so far to the right).

I called you an apologist because every time someone criticises UKIP, no matter how factually, you leap to their defence.

That means you *are* an apologist...

 

[Raven]

Feel free to find a post defending their views. I have defended their right to hold those views and still do. I know you would like nothing more than to silence them but unfortunately for you this is still a democracy.

You clearly fail to understand the language you are attempting to use.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm sorry.

But I'm getting really annoyed with @Job

Mate, you can't keep making far-fetched comments, when people pick up on them, if you don't even engage with them, you just come back a couple of days later with another really strong comment with nothing to back it up.

Clearly, I can't stop you from posting, and I want you to post, but I don't think you understand your posts totally drag down the UKIP cause, especially so when @Raven is engaging and putting forward some OK responses.

*hands over ears wawawawawawa*

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Who cares if it's going to be the third biggest party "in England" - these are the United Kingdom elections and it's going to come in a distant 4th at best.

The rest isn't shouting - I merely pointed out that every time someone criticises UKIP for being what they are (and I didn't say racist - I simply confirmed they have had neo-nazi members - which is both true and unsurprising for a party so far to the right).

I called you an apologist because every time someone criticises UKIP, no matter how factually, you leap to their defence.

That means you *are* an apologist...

..and you do come across as an attacker, just sayin'

The point of an election in a free country is that the nation decides. If Con/Lab/Lib/UKIP get some votes it's because somebody liked what they said. You don't have to agree, just accept that others think differently than yourself.

 

[Scouse]

Feel free to find a post defending their views. I have defended their right to hold those views and still do..

This wasn't a post about their views - it was a post about their membership - neo-nazi membership.

But on the point of "views" - *I* defend their right to hold their views. Whatever views they are. But I also exercise my right to attack them for them (which I wasn't even doing in this case - I simply confirmed gwadien's factual assertion they had a neo-nazi candidate).

@~Yuckfou~ - I do attack UKIP. - I wasn't here, just confirming a fact when raven decided to jump on me. But yes, I do. - But so what? That's part of the point of debating/discussing isn't it? If a horrid and despicable extreme-right party are campaigning for votes it's only right that others can call them on their bullshit.

 

[Gwadien]

Cameron seemed willing for a coalition, Milliband saying absolutely no coalition.

I know who this will work out worse for if a coalition happens.

 

[Raven]

I'm sorry.

But I'm getting really annoyed with @Job

Mate, you can't keep making far-fetched comments, when people pick up on them, if you don't even engage with them, you just come back a couple of days later with another really strong comment with nothing to back it up.

Clearly, I can't stop you from posting, and I want you to post, but I don't think you understand your posts totally drag down the UKIP cause, especially so when @Raven is engaging and putting forward some OK responses.

*hands over ears wawawawawawa*

To be clear I would like nothing more than for UKIP to gain no seats in the election. But being a democracy that isn't going to happen. What they say is attracting voters which under a system of democracy, regardless of whether you, me or red @Scouse agree with what they say is how it should be. It is the job of other parties to convince the electorate that their views are for the best. Shouting and insulting will never work, it just makes people look stupid.

As someone on questiontime said last night, polititions should be telling us why we should vote for them, not why we shouldn't vote for the other lot.

As part of a democratic process UKIP are important and because of their existence (and other right wing euro parties) positive change within Europe can and is happening.

 

[Bodhi]

I find singling out UKIP for having some bad apples in the party to be a little disingenuous, all parties have members that don't do their overall image much good, and UKIP are no different. I'd say it was more likely with UKIP due to their recent explosion in popularity meaning they had less time to vet candidates, but sadly people are too busy shouting RACIST to bother discussing any of their policies, despite the fact that some of them make a lot of sense. Problem is they're still a bit rough round the edges, but give them another election or two and I can see them seriously gaining traction - bear in mind it wasn't too long ago the SNP were seen as a bit of a joke single issue party (around last week iirc ), and look at them now. Christ they started up being good mates with a famous German with a penchant for silly mustaches and vegetarianism, and now they are apparently going to save the world.

Strange how when Labour Party members cock up the entire party doesn't get tarred with the same brush - allegations of Vote rigging all over the shop, the entire Rotherham situation (which appears to have been replicated all over the country), and the frankly shocking hypocrisy, yet the same parts of the media that yell RACIST every time they get a chance seem to think the sun shines out of Milliband's arse. From one particular paper I suspect this is because they can't spell long words like hypocrisy and Rotherham, but still seems to be some hilarious double standards going on.

Must admit the whole Millband and Brand interview made me laugh - two London based millionaire's sitting in one's very expensive kitchen discussing how the little people should live. Never ceases to amaze me just how hypocritical socialists tend to be - "Zero hour contracts are teh bad, but please ignore all those Zero Hour positions we've advertised for. They are casual, it's different!". Or "Tax avoidance is teh evel! Oh, what do you mean I've just been granted £1.5 million in shares that have been routed through Luxembourg, and my family are well known for paying fuck all in tax? Never mind that, just do as I say."

 

[DaGaffer]

...despite the fact that some of them make a lot of sense.

...so long as the cornerstone of their policy is to leave the EU, all the rest of their manifesto is pointless because the economic carnage would make it unworkable. That's ultimately the problem with UKIP; they're still really a single issue party pretending to be a real one.

 

[Raven]

So were the SNP up until a couple of months ago...