The decline of smoking?

[old.user4556]

I must have missed the whining.

 

[Sigurd]

Strange, most smokers I encounter happily hold their cigarette away from themselves, thus directing their filthy smoke into the path of normal people. Smoking is impeaching on our civil rights, and you smokers don't seem to understand... why the hell should we have to breathe your smoke if we don't want to? Smoking intrudes on the lives and health of others - personally I wouldn't just settle for a ban in public places, but a complete ban of smoking. The sad thing is, smokers aren't at fault themselves - other than a weak personality perhaps - it's the cigarette companies. They trick you into spending thousands on their produce (people are generally hooked under the illusion that it's "cool" to smoke) and keep you smoking your life (and others) away. Meanwhile, whilst everyone knows how bad they are for you, deep down... smokers are often found to be in a state of constant denial. They concoct myths about their habit, for example: the classic "my grandmother/grandfather/tortoise smoked since he was a child and he's still alive etc." or "cancer isn't that painful anyway" - anything to save themselves from having to face the inevitability of their early demise.

Time to wake up. Smoking is the biggest con of the 20th century - don't let it encroach on the 21st too... by stopping smoking you will: increase your lifespan and that of others around you - save a hell of a lot of money - smell halfway decent (if you think you do currently you're just used to smelling like an ashtray) - gain new respect from others around you... I could go on but I'm sure you know the advantages of quitting. As for the argument "I don't know anyone who died of smoking" well I know a lot of people. And I know people who have led pretty miserable lives due to their parents smoking (not to mention the relatives of the deceased who had to nurture their dying parent/grandparent through lung cancer, watching them slowly decay day by day) so please don't delude yourself.

BTW Bodhi: No I'm not just arguing for arguing's sake, I wouldn't move onto something else to complain about should smoking be banned... this is, however, an issue I feel strongly about, as you may have guessed. Please try not to make assumptions that "whining = weak" as the sheep of this world are the real weaklings, those who sit there indifferent to the rot of the world around them.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Oh what a complete nonsense. Sigurd did you even read what Bodhi wrote?
He didn't claim that he was imune to dying of smoking related sicknes, he just stated a fact, his gran didn't die young.
As I have stated before why aren't there hardly any non-smoking bars?
Answer (according to Dysfunction) is that non-smokers follow their smoking friends, how about stop following? Personally my opinion is that if a non-smoking friend would want to go to a place that is a non-smoking pub I would go... he/she is a friend remember. I would never force a friend to a smoking area if he/she had a problem with it.

thus directing their filthy smoke into the path of normal people.

Hmm smokers are not normal people Sigurd? I disagree. I feel that people who want to intrude on other people's habbits not normal.

The only non-smoking area's I want to see are places that can't be avoided, and lets be honest you can avoid most places.

 

[dysfunction]

Smokers selfish eh? That's why I just spent 5 minutes chatting to someone ehilst having a fag, a) I offered them one (god damn that was selfish), b) Offered them a light when they provided their own (i really shoulda kept that infinitely small amount of lighter fluid I used) and then c) blew smoke away from them whilst I was talking to them. And this happens most times I go out for a cig. However, If I was to encounter somone giving chat similar to dysfunction, Sigurd or Big G, my response would be different. They'd blatantly get a faceload of smoke every time I had a puff. People like you lot aren't really worth being considerate around, when smoking gets banned you'll get another axe to grind, and terminally annoy the people who really quite like the axe they have, and would like as little ground from it as possible. Non-smokers listening yet? The more you complain the more we'll smoke, the whinier your voices get the more smoke goes in your face.

Someone purposefully blew smoke into my face once after I politely asked them to hold their cig in another hand as the smoke was wafting right into my face. Needless to say they didnt have that cig anymore and the rest of their pack was also ripped to shreds.

I dont have any axe to grind but it sounds like you do. This thread is about smoking and I'm just expressing my view. I dont constantly complain about smokers. I am very tolerant as I choose to go to pubs etc where there is smoking. Sounds to me though that you feel the need to justify to yourself and convince others here that smoking is good...but you are simply wrong. Smoking is not good and the cig companies have pretty much admitted this fact.

I do feel smoke intrudes no matter where you are and no matter how hard you try and be polite and blow the smoke away from others.

As I have stated before why aren't there hardly any non-smoking bars?
Answer (according to Dysfunction) is that non-smokers follow their smoking friends, how about stop following? Personally my opinion is that if a non-smoking friend would want to go to a place that is a non-smoking pub I would go... he/she is a friend remember. I would never force a friend to a smoking area if he/she had a problem with it.

It seems pointless going to a non smoking pub if you are the only one that doesnt smoke...thats being selfish as all the others will be suffering their withdrawel symptoms. And besides of not actually found a non smoking pub in London...

 

[old.user4556]

I dont have any axe to grind but it sounds like you do. This thread is about smoking and I'm just expressing my view. I dont constantly complain about smokers. I am very tolerant as I choose to go to pubs etc where there is smoking. Sounds to me though that you feel the need to justify to yourself and convince others here that smoking is good...but you are simply wrong.

I agree with this, I just couldn't bother to type it. I find it ironic that Bodhi refers to whining when it is clearly his posts that are long, whiney and with a ' chip on shoulder' tone.

 

[Tom]

I have the feeling that nothing here will be said that could possibly get Bodhi to change his mind

The facts are, smokers stink, the cigs stink, the cigs kill people, its not cool.

There you go, that should be the end of this thread tbfh.

 

[Bodhi]

Someone purposefully blew smoke into my face once after I politely asked them to hold their cig in another hand as the smoke was wafting right into my face. Needless to say they didnt have that cig anymore and the rest of their pack was also ripped to shreds.

I dont have any axe to grind but it sounds like you do. This thread is about smoking and I'm just expressing my view. I dont constantly complain about smokers. I am very tolerant as I choose to go to pubs etc where there is smoking. Sounds to me though that you feel the need to justify to yourself and convince others here that smoking is good...but you are simply wrong.

Hmmmm I'm in a discussion about smoking and I'm a smoker (through choice I'll add - quit for 4 weeks last summer cos I was absolutely skint, no withdrawl, nothing), I wonder why I could ever be arguing the pros of smoking? I'm simply trying to educate some clearly uneducated fools.

And if you tried that fag ripping shenaigans with me you'd end up with a ripped face. No messing. Especially if you'd taken that indignant righteous voice non-smokers love so much, which (as a small hint) was probably why you had smoke blown in your face in the first place. I'd a taken my lighter to your nutsack if I was that fellow. How you feel you are in a position to lecture me after condoning willful destruction of property I have no idea.

Sigurd, I'm ignoring everything you have said. You've clearly not read my post and just gone into preach mode. For which I say talk to the hand.

 

[Sigurd]

Actually I did read your post. I suppose cigarettes rot the mind as well as the lungs though eh? Mr. Blacky - silly argument. If it was my habit to chop people up and hide them in suitcases under my bed, would you intrude upon it? Extreme example, but nontheless - not all "habits" are good, and not everything should be allowed in our society, mmkay?

BTW Bodhi - if you were to breathe smoke in my face, yours would be in a rather sorry state. Damage your property? Breathing smoke in someone's face is damaging their body, get your priorities sorted please.

 

[JBP|]

well this could go on for ever and a day

the problem lies in tolerance (or lack of it)

yes i uderstand that non smokers fear getting the the big c or other related ilness' from inhaling others smoke as i believe most smokers do

however to say that smokers have no right to smoke and it should be banned is clearly a very silly thing to say never mind try to enforce

i remeber a time when you could smoke on the bus/train/tube ect ect which iirc was stopped shortly after the tube station fire in the mid to late 80's

as far as i am concerned if someone wants to smoke they are perfectly entitled to do so

lets face it if smokers are in the minority rather than the majority these days how hard exactly would it be to create a smoking area in a bar or resturant and fit a few extractor fans so the evil smoke doesnt drift over to the non smokers?

 

[kanonfodda]

hmm, interesting thread

I have to admit, as a non-smoker, I do dislike smoking, the bad smell on your clothes after a night out, sometimes the pain in my eyes in the pubs etc.

For the most part though, I have no major problem with smokers. the pubs I go to are reasonably ventilated, and although a large proportion of my friends smoke, they are all very considerate about it towards those in the group who do not smoke. There have been many occasions where smoke has been blown in my face, and the smoker has instantly apologised and wafted it away.

On the whole, the only place I really detest smoke, is in a restaurant. Even my smoker friends refuse to smoke whilst people are eating, so on the whole I think the problem is not as great as people think.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to choice. If people want to smoke, then that is up to them. If people don't want to smoke, and don't want to be near smoke, then again, that is up to them. People will have to find a middle ground, where everyone is happy. I think the additional ventilation mentioned by someone earlier is an excellent idea, let people smoke, and get rid of the smoke itself.

bloody hell, longest post I have written in ages

<disclaimer> These are just my opinions, they are not meant as a pro or anti smoking rant, merely letting people know where I stand</disclaimer>

 

[mr.Blacky]

Mr. Blacky - silly argument. If it was my habit to chop people up and hide them in suitcases under my bed, would you intrude upon it? Extreme example, but nontheless - not all "habits" are good, and not everything should be allowed in our society, mmkay?

If people would allow you to do that and were in a normal state of mind, no problem. You seem to forget my point you can avoid smokers.

But for arguments sake lets follow your point and put it to the test on something else that is damaging: alcohol. How many people are adicted to it? How many people die caus of alcohol related accidents? Have you ever had a beer thrown over you causing you to smell of beer? How much is spended on treating alcohol problems? Alcohol kills braincells and damages the liver, people who don't drink live longer.
According to your arguments alcohol should be banned aswell.

Perhaps I have missed an anouncement telling me that you (and any government) is my keeper. As I said many times before, if you have a smoking friend he/she will also go with you to non-smoking area's caus they are your friends, if they don't then sorry they aint your friends. So tell me how can someone smoking effect you if you don't want to see it near you? You can avoid it.

 

[dysfunction]

Hmmmm I'm in a discussion about smoking and I'm a smoker (through choice I'll add - quit for 4 weeks last summer cos I was absolutely skint, no withdrawl, nothing), I wonder why I could ever be arguing the pros of smoking? I'm simply trying to educate some clearly uneducated fools

In what way are you trying to educate people? That smoking is good? That its healthy?

Clearly the cigs have damaged your brain...

 

[SilverHood]

If people would allow you to do that and were in a normal state of mind, no problem. You seem to forget my point you can avoid smokers.

But for arguments sake lets follow your point and put it to the test on something else that is damaging: alcohol. How many people are adicted to it? How many people die caus of alcohol related accidents? Have you ever had a beer thrown over you causing you to smell of beer? How much is spended on treating alcohol problems? Alcohol kills braincells and damages the liver, people who don't drink live longer.
According to your arguments alcohol should be banned aswell.

Perhaps I have missed an anouncement telling me that you (and any government) is my keeper. As I said many times before, if you have a smoking friend he/she will also go with you to non-smoking area's caus they are your friends, if they don't then sorry they aint your friends. So tell me how can someone smoking effect you if you don't want to see it near you? You can avoid it.

Ah, but people have a choice when drinking alcohol - getting smoke blown in your face isn't really a choice.

Bodhi, it may be that your Mr. Perfect Smoker, but 99% of people who smoke aren't. (In my experience anyway, and probably in most people's experience)

I just finished an exam this morning.... was waiting outside, and the first thing that happend after the "how did it go?" - people started smoking, and as Sigurd said - cig away from themselves. Blowing upwards, and straining thier necks? You must be joking. Did they just blow it straight ahead then? No. It was rather, sideways, away from their group. And right into me and my mates, who are mostly non smokers.

Thankfully, there was enough space outside the hotel so we could just move 10 meters further away - no problem. But this choice isn't always available (bus stops, pubs, sitting area at campus, etc. come to mind).

Now say honestly - who was being inconsiderate there - smokers, or us, for being near then when they were doing their gods given right?

 

[JimminyJimJim]

Clearly the cigs have damaged your brain...

Comments like this is what Bodhi's is talking about. I don't smoke, but if I did I'd blow smoke in your face for that. And enjoy it.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

But...cigarettes do damage your brain. Your skin, your eyes, any part of the body where blood flows to (and yes, it does limit erectile strength ), since your blood is full of CARBON MONOXIDE - you know, which is quite nasty shit.

You can't have carbon-moxide-infested blood pumping round your brain and it not doing damage, I'm afraid.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Don't get me wrong there are selfish smokers.. they are people.
As for avoiding people who are drunk, you do have seen news reports about drunk drivers killing people?
Avoiding pubs that allow smoking might be an option As for bus stops (bear in mind I am in Holland so don't really know how they look) maybe a ban it really depends on the size of it.
What I am trying to say is that people should use common sense, ban it where you can't avoid it like working places, public transport etc but places that can be avoided don't (like pubs).
As for your example Silverhood imo it depends on who was there first and could the smoke not be avoided when leaving the place? If yes then they were inconsiderate. And if smoking was banned then they might have done something else inconsiderate.

 

[Sigurd]

Why should we have to leave just to be able to breathe properly? Hell, smokers get everywhere these days anyway... you can be walking on a remote hill, not another person in sight, then suddenly... the familar foul smell, yes it's a smoker! Once again it seems I have to illustrate this point nice and carefully for you... smokers are infringing on non-smokers' right to breathe the free air. It doesn't matter anyway, nothing is going to convince such a self-centred bunch of people that it is actually incredibly selfish and pointless to smoke.... so all I can do is hope for a ban... and it looks like we'll certainly be getting a ban on smoking in public places soon - but that's too little, too late.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Ah the smell of smoking compared to the smell of some perfumes or people farting in public....
Can you see where I am going? Inconsiderate people will always exist and they might be smokers and they might be non-smokers.
As for all smokers being selfish, I think it is selfish not to allow a place where smokers can enjoy their habbit.

Hell, smokers get everywhere these days anyway...

hehe yes and someday they might own the world rofl.

 

[Sigurd]

The difference being smoking is actually harmful to others - and incredibly harmful to yourself...

 

[GekuL]

If people would allow you to do that and were in a normal state of mind, no problem. You seem to forget my point you can avoid smokers.

If I were to sit in a pub and say I'll kick your head in if you come in, I'll probably get arrested. But you could avoid me so whats the problem?

But for arguments sake lets follow your point and put it to the test on something else that is damaging: alcohol. How many people are adicted to it? How many people die caus of alcohol related accidents? Have you ever had a beer thrown over you causing you to smell of beer? How much is spended on treating alcohol problems? Alcohol kills braincells and damages the liver, people who don't drink live longer.
According to your arguments alcohol should be banned aswell.

I don't think anyone cares too much about what smokers do to themselves, it's their choice and most are old enough to make their own decisions. For the alcohol analagy to hold water though, it would have to be common practice for people to pour pints on everyone that enters a pub before force feeding them the used alcohol, which in this case I suppose would be their piss.

you do have seen news reports about drunk drivers killing people?

Drink driving is illegal.

 

[JBP|]

do you drive ?

do you go outside on a sunny day without sun factor 3000 on?

have you ever over eaten?

were doomed i tell ya DOOOOOOOOMMMED

 

[dysfunction]

Comments like this is what Bodhi's is talking about. I don't smoke, but if I did I'd blow smoke in your face for that. And enjoy it.

I only said that because he's being deliberately aggressive towards everyone who has stated they would prefer if smoking is banned.

I'm not the kind of person that Bhodi is ranting about ie. people who talk to smokers with an "indignant righteous voice"....

 

[Padwah]

I wasn't going to post in this thread as things always get a bit silly and it's usually more fun to sit on the sidelines and se what happens but I found this quite funny from Mr.Blacky:

What I am trying to say is that people should use common sense, ban it where you can't avoid it like working places, public transport etc

You do realise that people work in pubs too don't you? Why should people that work in pubs be exempt from this bit of common sense that says you shouldn't be subjected to second-hand smoke in the work place?

 

[old.user4556]

On that note, it's now relevant to post this

"Environmental tobacco smoke in pubs, bars, restaurants and other public places is seriously damaging to the health of employees as well as the general public.

"Making these places smoke-free not only protects vulnerable staff and the public, it will also help over 300,000 people in Britain to stop smoking completely."

 

[Trem]

I have to say I would find it easier to quit if other people around me weren't smoking. I may try again one day.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I have to say I would find it easier to quit if other people around me weren't smoking. I may try again one day.

Do it if you want to, not because you feel pressured.

 

[Bodhi]

I wasn't going to post in this thread as things always get a bit silly and it's usually more fun to sit on the sidelines and se what happens but I found this quite funny from Mr.Blacky:
You do realise that people work in pubs too don't you? Why should people that work in pubs be exempt from this bit of common sense that says you shouldn't be subjected to second-hand smoke in the work place?

And of course, no-one who works in a bar smokes either. You'll probably find most people do. anyway, a lot of pubs have No Smoking near the bar rules which I can live with. But to outlaw smoking in pubs completely would be a travest, and would ruin the pubbing experience. I can only hope if a ban does come in (and it well might, it seems the uneducated fools are winning this battle just by shouting louder and waving their arms around), people will be allowed to set up "Smoking Bars", where people can still go and enjoy a cigarette. Non-smokers wouldn't be able to complain either - the fact that the bar is going to be smoky is kinda written on the tin.

I'd also like to point out that I never said smoking was good for you as some of you seem to have filled my mouth with. I said I was probably healthier than before I smoked, but that's because I drink a lot less now and take slightly better care of my body. Smoking does seem to cause cancer, yes, but not in everybody. And that's a chance I'm willing to take to enjoy the subtle pleasures of a Marlboro Light. Plus I know that if I quit before I'm 30 my lungs will repair themselves (they can repair themselves after smoking 20 a day for 10 years, yet a little bit of secondhand smoke gets in and people start crying "DEATH DEATH". You see why am about as unconvinced as you're going to get about passive smoking?), so at the moment the only drawback of smoking is the cost. Which in all honesty I can live with. So there you are, my entire argument summed up in a few lines for the terminally retarded amongst you. In my opinion, Smoking isn't bad - as a matter of fact, I happen to rather enjoy it.

 

[Driwen]

I'd also like to point out that I never said smoking was good for you as some of you seem to have filled my mouth with. I said I was probably healthier than before I smoked, but that's because I drink a lot less now and take slightly better care of my body. Smoking does seem to cause cancer, yes, but not in everybody. And that's a chance I'm willing to take to enjoy the subtle pleasures of a Marlboro Light. Plus I know that if I quit before I'm 30 my lungs will repair themselves (they can repair themselves after smoking 20 a day for 10 years, yet a little bit of secondhand smoke gets in and people start crying "DEATH DEATH". You see why am about as unconvinced as you're going to get about passive smoking?), so at the moment the only drawback of smoking is the cost. Which in all honesty I can live with. So there you are, my entire argument summed up in a few lines for the terminally retarded amongst you. In my opinion, Smoking isn't bad - as a matter of fact, I happen to rather enjoy it.

lungs dont actually repair themself, they clean out the tar that is heaped in your lungs though (slowly as the cells which are dirty die and get removed from your lungs). And everyone has a chance on getting lung cancer, but by breathing cig smoke you increase that chance and the more you do it the more likely you are to get it. Off course there will be people who have smoked 2 packs a day for 20 years and are still cancer free, but I dont think the odds are in favour of those people (besides that smokers give me an increased chance on cancer, which I dont mind if I choose for it, but if I dont have a choose than it is bad).
Now besides cancer smoking means your lungs can contain less air, which means that your condition is less than it would be without the cigs. Yes it is possibly to have a good condition and smoke, but you would have a better one without the cigs.

Smoking IS bad, just like alcohol is bad, but that doesnt mean you cant be allowed to use it. However which such reasonings, we should probably allow other drugs aswell aslong as you dont bother anyone else with it(or ban smoking from any public place).

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Lungs do repair themselves very effectively actually.

There's even an argument they could repair themselves stronger than before...like a broken arm healing stronger. For example, I go to the gym several times a week. I swim, I run, and keep up fairly well with most of the non-smokers there, when two years ago I would have collapsed at the thought. I have trained through the smoking (which must be like athletes training at high altitude) and my lungs are strong even though I smoke. Now I've stopped, I expect in a month to find myself fitter than most people at the gym who never smoked.

Bodhi - "I'll stop when I'm older" - that is a classic.

 

[Trem]

Giving up would also be alot easier if Lester hadn't brought me a 1000 ciggies back from America, I tried to refuse them but he said I have to to have them*, he hates me
















*may be lies.