The death of the Warlock.

[charmangle]

check what he said mate...

Unfortunatly due to my lazyness my wl has never been toaed with a sc.

got all the damage equip and my melee resists are capped, altho obviosuly wearing only rogs and stuff my magic resists are dire

only ml1 on it also. but thats all you need to interupt a zerg to bomb.

Check what he said mate...

He claimed that you had 12% slash resists...now thats an impossibility in mid since any one can buy a ring of torrent for 200gold.

That your magic resists isnt tip top because of not scing has nothing to do with that. You still have the things needed for any class that solo. High melee resists, decent toa stats and hp...

If just having low resists in some spellresists were enough to call you rog then as I said before most of hibernia are roggers since they dont cap out matter resists...

Cough = warlock = Preacherboypip = Rog

Same here pip, Ive run with you a couple of times a couple of months ago and at that time you did have decent stats...meaning: The most important artis, decent resists and hp. If you wanna call yourself ROG mate use Moderna items only and try it out...you wount live long with 750 hp and no resists at all...Especially not as a Warlock

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Ofc we are talking prenerf...

Dude... we're talking in the past sence, right? As in.. the patch pre-nerf. Arumi even said on the boards, and people who have hit him with various damage-types can agree, he was *NOT* templated at that time. Yeah he might be templated now, but pre-nerf he definitly wasnt templated. I was making comments about ROG-warlocks getting muchos RP's pre-nerf killing everything in sight.

Dont believe me? Sure, take a look at this. Thats a level 48 ROGbainshee nuking Arumi and leeching some RP's to get some RA's. That screenie is 2 months old, where Arumi was RR8. 10% body-resists... templated? riiight.



I think the majority of the templates on my TOA'ed characters have prooven to non_retards Im not stupid. However 1 ring of the torrent for 200G doesnt make you templated, soz :<



You should ask them what 'template' they where using when they where racking up 100-300k RP/week outskilling everyone. Not what they got now, when TOA'ing goes faster then Moderna PL'ing.

Funny how 2 of the 3 I mentioned where TOA'ed according to Charmangle, yet they come here to tell they ain't :O

Yep ofc we are talking prenerf but even you should understand that to template a caster you just need: decent: Dexcap, pietycap, some hp, high melee resists, castingspeed, spelldamage.

And that you get by having just the simplest of items in a caster template.

Ofc you can opt the template but thats hardly needed for any caster that solos. And both flyboy and arumi has that. (even though they themselves consider that RoG!

A RoG player is a player that has moderna drops on him and no artifacts...or not capping the most important parts for that casters. For example a warlock might consider casting speed not as important (even though most still get it capped) they are still templated because they have what is needed.

Same goes for ALL casters...

Now when warlocks first came out there were alot of players just pling up their char in modern and using what ever dropped there. Going into rvr with 800hp, max 10 in all resists and no toa bonuses. That was true rogging...they got nice rps but ofc they noticed that any PA would drop them and a bolt from a firewizz would instakillthem etc so they went out and get the most important parts, hence templating themselves for the specific task of the char.

Lol, that bit's class, should take some of your advice...

Read above yep yep yep...
/Charmangle

 

[Konstantin]

Savages get stoicism and access to det, aswell as to purge, so howcome they get left behind ? ;|

25% dps, 39% haste, 2000 ws, nice toa set = mega damage imho. They also have prevent flight now, very nice ^e^

try keep up whit zerk on charge whit ure det5 and stoi and yes they get Pf soon wich is nice but rly svg could use charge aswell imotry to folow a Ma that charging into evry fight,this means he´s alone on all targets för 5-10 seconds and if a mezz/root lands on svg wile hes trying to get to ma there´s anbother 5+ secs...

and imo kobbis should get 100% critt chanse as svg just couse im kobbi.

 

[pip]

Check what he said mate...

He claimed that you had 12% slash resists...now thats an impossibility in mid since any one can buy a ring of torrent for 200gold.

That your magic resists isnt tip top because of not scing has nothing to do with that. You still have the things needed for any class that solo. High melee resists, decent toa stats and hp...

If just having low resists in some spellresists were enough to call you rog then as I said before most of hibernia are roggers since they dont cap out matter resists...


Same here pip, Ive run with you a couple of times a couple of months ago and at that time you did have decent stats...meaning: The most important artis, decent resists and hp. If you wanna call yourself ROG mate use Moderna items only and try it out...you wount live long with 750 hp and no resists at all...Especially not as a Warlock

/Charmangle

spellcrafted ftw not got 1 toa bonus But starting em soon after rr9, what was point in spending time on warlock with artis? when now got rp, get artis real easy nowdays

 

[Vodkafairy]

Well I do that...uptil the point someone gets personal against me. Im not gonna let someone walk all over me without recipicating in the same manner.
So its very easy to keep it a clean discussion with nice arguments back and forth...just dont start getting personal with insults...if no one starts then it is kept clean.

/Charmangle

it's not really a clean discussion if you do nothing but bring up flawed arguments though. may aswell have a lying competition then

 

[Azathrim]

and a bolt from a firewizz would instakillthem

Even with a solid ToA template you can still be insta killed by fire wizards...

 

[Shike]

only class I find _really_ disturbing atm is actually BD's. Nerf to WL's was 100% justified and I'm glad they did a heavy handed nerf.

People who rolled WL's to rake in easy RPs while it was possible deserves to have a char that isnt better than WL's are now. I wouldnt cry if they got nerfed even more aswell, I would just laugh at all the idiotFoTM's that are out there. The people whining about it is just silly, stupid and biased as hell.

Bains aren't too bad if you take other realms casters into the equation. They cannot MoClifetap which is a very silly combo, nor do they have a pet they can ML9, nor can they debuff their own damage. Nor can they chaininstaintterupt 2 people and they dont have banelord. Bains are cool since they have a nuke on a good damagetable which uses v little mana and use singletaunts to interrupt, UIpbaeroot is nice too and so is the ablative. But serious.. the realm with shamans and BDs shouldnt be whining, neither should the realm that can run sorc+cabacombos, thats probably the best castercombination in the game atm. Classwise BDs are in their totally own league and a good BD can fuck a whole group over totally and there isnt much u can do about it either if its a good BD.

Remove Banelord from BDs and make the debuff noninterruptable and its a more balanced caster at least, still retarded with instalifetap and instadebuff but at least they cant interrupt 3ppl + so easy.

 

[charmangle]

Ofc...thats the problem with people that cant use arguments...

it's not really a clean discussion if you do nothing but bring up flawed arguments though. may aswell have a lying competition then

Thats the problem when people cant use arguments without starting to to add personal insults without provokation. When they do that they set a standard and basically say: My arguments suck so much that I dont want to argue this Im just here to make plump comments and belittle other people.

Thats why you never should start mudslinging at all. You can recipicate but not start it.

Ive dont that by misstake at some points (mainly because I missunderstood a comment for beeing an insult) but at those few times ive always said that Im sorry for the missunderstanding and gone back to the clean arguing.


But to get the discussion here back on track:
The point is: Warlocks needed a nerf but they should have gotten some more grouper friendly skills to make them more usable.

And other classes that need a nerf as badly as warlock used to need it:
Banshees, Shrooms (not anmists just the freaking shrooms), Monsterress, Firewizzes high rr bolt and all baselinestuns on damage classes. Oh and the damage on PA/BS stelathers. (lol at getting hit for 1300 with a pa and then 200 the second after from the first hit

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Hehe yea I know!

Even with a solid ToA template you can still be insta killed by fire wizards...

Hehe yea I know...

/Charmangle

 

[xxManiacxx]

I say what I always have been saying. Banelord should have gotten to Valkyries

 

[Konstantin]

I say what I always have been saying. Banelord should have gotten to Valkyries

:worthy: gona try play my valk when they get charge ... charge on inc and cone em all! .p

 

[Vodkafairy]

Thats the problem when people cant use arguments without starting to to add personal insults without provokation. When they do that they set a standard and basically say: My arguments suck so much that I dont want to argue this Im just here to make plump comments and belittle other people.

no the problem that you put up incredibly biased opinions and then say you're trying to discuss. the arguments you have brought up are mostly just plain untrue, you are simply not going to get hit by a bainshee for 600-800 when you have red body resist. same thing with the warlocks you claimed to be toa'd, they werent. they are even low ml

not trying to belittle you at all, just think you need to doublecheck your facts and put things into perspective.

and about the roggers, a lot of classes can leech like the best even with crap templates. doesn't change the fact that most people had absolutely no way to defend themself against warlocks, regardless of their templates, when for example a firewiz is super easy to kill for almost anything (1v1)

 

[atos]

ty ^^

Oh and Trollum, capped melee-resists doesnt mean templated. Let alone TOA'ed

So if I got a template for my thane and decide that I wanna remove alot of items and get artis for nice use abillities I'm not templated anymore?

Jsut look at teamwizzy. You dont need a pwn tempalte with everythign capped to kill stuff.It helps.. but in the end the design of the warlock makes such things rather obsolete.


And another thing.. I wouldnt wanna play bard or sorc in 1.83 vs a valk group. A true pain in the ass.


PS can I rly say ass? ^^;

 

[Bugz]

when for example a firewiz is super easy to kill for almost anything (1v1)

Depends entirely.

Sure, it's easy for a stealther or when you got the jump but when in open playing field, 3x 600-100 damage bolts > my vamp :<

 

[Vodkafairy]

Depends entirely.

Sure, it's easy for a stealther or when you got the jump but when in open playing field, 3x 600-100 damage bolts > my vamp :<

powerbolt and you're in his melee range before hes even out of the interrupt timer?

or charge/banelord?

both are just as effective, try doing the same thing against a warlock.

 

[Konstantin]

powerbolt and you're in his melee range before hes even out of the interrupt timer?

or charge/banelord?

both are just as effective, try doing the same thing against a warlock.

try that as a savage !


And Ps:

Deathmatch of the year !!!
Puppet Vs charmangle

 

[wittor]

and imo kobbis should get 100% critt chanse as svg just couse im kobbi.

True, give 100% crit chance on kobolds !

 

[Lethul]

True, give 100% crit chance on kobolds !

agree!

 

[wittor]

agree!

<3 :wub:

 

[Bondoila]

We are talking about WHEN a Banshee here is OP! The Banshee is OP ONLY AND ONLY in serg or cramped quarters. Meaning inside siege/bridges and towards sergs. THATS when they are horrible interrupts at the SAME time as they have damage output in that interrupt.

You didn't, you simply compared bd vs banshee vs theru on interrupts.
When I told you why the banshee isn't as good interrupter as the bd and theru you changed the situation to a bridge(just silly). On a bridge a ani with 12+ shrooms up and aoe nuking would interrupt even more. Next time tell where you comparing the classes since the majority would think it's fg vs fg.
The theru aint a good interrupter in quarters,bridge etc better say ice wizz then
Without being rude you seem to be so full of shit!

Best regards
Bondoila

 

[charmangle]

Hmm...

no the problem that you put up incredibly biased opinions and then say you're trying to discuss. the arguments you have brought up are mostly just plain untrue, you are simply not going to get hit by a bainshee for 600-800 when you have red body resist. same thing with the warlocks you claimed to be toa'd, they werent. they are even low ml
not trying to belittle you at all, just think you need to doublecheck your facts and put things into perspective.

Hehe no worries mate! Clean arguments wount ever be taken as silly personal accusations, they are just refreshing.

Regarding the damage on red body resists:
We wount get any where with this. I tell you that I have been hit for this damage on several occations AND I do have red body resist up. Only way we can settle that is by me showing you a screenshot (and you accepting it) as soon as I get it. (But If I take the time to get the screenie I trust youll accept that as some sort of proof even though its not perfect as such.)

Well Ive been playing with both those both arumi and flyboy and I was (still am actually, but since they say they arent using any toa bonuses at all I unlike others in this thread stop argueing about it and accept that as proof of word) pretty sure that ive seen them with basic artis (tartaros). But since atleast one of them says they dont have that I have to admit I apperently was misstaken on 1 point. (now when I show you the screen shot you will be proven wrong on one of your points so will puppet, can I then say: "just think you need to doublecheck your facts and put things into perspective" to you ? Another guy in this thread said that savages have an sidepositional stun (since we were talking about an anytime stun) does that mean his whole point in general is now invalid since he was wrong there? (no ofc it doesnt his points were still good just a minor part of it that I just disreagard and then continue to listen to and argue about the more important points)

BUT that really is beside the point, the point is still that absolutly most of the warlocks do get the basic template. And then ignore that fact by purposly stearing the discussion towards the 2 exceptions that prove the rule (expression in swedish), just wount bring us anywhere.

When discussing something its your job as a counterpart to try and understand what the opposition is getting at and argue against that point with as good arguments you can come up with. Not stearing the discussion away from the main points just because you find them uncomfortable like puppet seems to do.

Some easy to understand facts that I really dont think either you or your buddy puppet can argue with is that:

Getting a basic template for any caster is so easy that anyone not doing it would be either so lazy that its rediculous or just plain stupid.

(With basic I mean: 10 % castingspeed, decent dex and piety cap, some hp, high melee resists, and gov/naihlas + tartaros for spelldamage) Now for a warlock you prolly dont really need castingspeed an dexcap so its even easier to get done.

and about the roggers, a lot of classes can leech like the best even with crap templates. doesn't change the fact that most people had absolutely no way to defend themself against warlocks, regardless of their templates, when for example a firewiz is super easy to kill for almost anything (1v1)

Hmm...Im not sure what you mean with defend themselves. 1 pa for 1000+ will oneshot a RoG warlock ? Baselinestun + 2 nukes will kill the warlock (getting in 2 500 nukes on the warlock with 0 % resists and 1000 hp shouldnt be that hard after a stun there is no way he can purge and get anything off before you hit with 2 nukes after he gets surprice stunned. He just isnt that fast)

Now thats the arguments against warlocks thats running around with moderna drops only beeing invicable.

Now to my own thoughts and opinions on the matter:
Yes warlocks were way to op in 1vs1. But they did need atleast a basic template or they would get 1 shotted by stealthers and 2 shotted by casters.

Yes instakills should be removed from game and warlocks damage was way to high especially since they heal so well too.

BUT a warlock IS not in the same legue as a banshee or even an animist inside a keep. And in my opinion that is ALOT more discuraging. Charging in with 200 people into a keep only to get instawiped by 2 banshees and 3 animists. Thats what makes random players quite the game. (and random players are alot more than the hardcore players so they are in my opinion more important)

In my opinion you hibs (using a generalization here because it actually seems like it is almost only hibs arguing this to me) have a tendancy to view rvr as only 1vs1 or FGvsFG. While that in my opinion is the smallest part of the rvr. So if we really want to get somewhere with the real issue here then we should discuss it as 3 separate questions: Which class is most OP in 1vs1, Which class is most OP in FGvsFG, which class is most OP in Siege.

Overall OPness is just pointless to discuss since its a matter of which part of rvr you think is the most important.

SO:
Which class is most OP in 1vs1 after patch: Baselinestunners, Lifedrainers with pets.
Which class is most OP in FGvsFG: Lifedrainers with pets.
Which class is most OP in siege/serg: Animists, Banshees and high rr firewizzes.

Imo!

/Charmangle

 

[Konstantin]

True, give 100% crit chance on kobolds !

less emoting me when on alb gimp

 

[Konstantin]

agree!

this dude is my rolemoddel as savage! so fotm

 

[wittor]

less emoting me when on alb gimp

What char ?

 

[charmangle]

Aha I see...that was apparently just a missunderstanding mate...

You didn't, you simply compared bd vs banshee vs theru on interrupts.
When I told you why the banshee isn't as good interrupter as the bd and theru you changed the situation to a bridge(just silly). On a bridge a ani with 12+ shrooms up and aoe nuking would interrupt even more. Next time tell where you comparing the classes since the majority would think it's fg vs fg.
The theru aint a good interrupter in quarters,bridge etc better say ice wizz then
Without being rude you seem to be so full of shit!

Best regards
Bondoila

Aha I see...that was apparently just a missunderstanding mate...

What I meant with that was that we all have different kinds of chars that are good interrupters depending on situations. (And yes I do consider it a problem when people keep assuming all rvr references to be FGvsFG since I consider it to be one of the smallest parts of rvr even though i usually dont go out much in rvr any more without a fg myself. I try to see it from random players point of view)

hehe hard not to be rude when you use that kind of language! Why not say that you disagree with me ? Or that not harsh enough to get your point across to all the listners you are crowdpleasing ?

Without beeing rude you could use to clean up your act if you want to be polite!

With my best regards

/Charmangle

ps. We all are full of shit, its just a matter of opinion which pile of dump you want to revel in mate!ds.

 

[Lethul]

this dude is my rolemoddel as savage! so fotm

you can call me Lethul the Kobold King . I should be the one standing inside the throne room! (curse that fat lazy dwarf)

 

[Lethul]

btw, i think its time to post this one again for the real haters!

http://maartenson.net/daoc/lessthanthree.avi

 

[Puppet]

Check what he said mate...

He claimed that you had 12% slash resists...now thats an impossibility in mid since any one can buy a ring of torrent for 200gold.

What kind of stupid argument is that? Everyone *can* buy enough items to get a fully capped set, but not everyone does it. Just because Ring of the Torrent is cheap doesnt mean everyone actually bothers to use em ?

That your magic resists isnt tip top because of not scing has nothing to do with that. You still have the things needed for any class that solo. High melee resists, decent toa stats and hp...

Nice way to twist the argument, isn't it? If someone has 10% body-resists, he's *not* templated (or has a shit template, which is practically the same).

If just having low resists in some spellresists were enough to call you rog then as I said before most of hibernia are roggers since they dont cap out matter resists...

Aye because matter = body huh :O And please, Arumi AND Flyboy actually *SAY* in this topic they are not templated and in ROG's. Are you actually now desputing the fact they are not? Or is a set of ROG's with a Ring of the Torrent now a template in your eyes? Surely if you got only 10% body-resists, thats not a template.

Same here pip, Ive run with you a couple of times a couple of months ago and at that time you did have decent stats...meaning: The most important artis, decent resists and hp. If you wanna call yourself ROG mate use Moderna items only and try it out...you wount live long with 750 hp and no resists at all...Especially not as a Warlock

/Charmangle

How you know he has decent resists and hp? Ive hit FBP his warlock with various legendary weapons, and some resists where even lower then others, but even the most important ones where not capped. Now that's not bad, if people choose to run without a template, their choice. But you shouldnt make it so they got a template. Which is what I said in the first place: Warlocks without a template, basically running in ROG's (which gives the same average stats/resists etc).

 

[Puppet]

Oh and for the record, I wont bother argueing with you again, you got a habit of changing the discussion each and everytime you get prooven wrong.

Tools like you should just play Midgard and spam their alliance/guild-chat how overpowered those bainshees are nuking their ROG-lord characters with 10% body-resists for 800 'but I got good HP and melee-resists m8 so Im templated'

 

[charmangle]

Read answere to vodkafairy...

What kind of stupid argument is that?

Already answered all of the things here 3 posts up mate...

Oh and for the record, I wont bother argueing with you again, you got a habit of changing the discussion each and everytime you get prooven wrong.

Now...now puppet dont get pouty and go to bed. Stay up and play with the rest of us!
I have nothing but love for you here little one!

I dont change the subject, I admit when Im wrong and move along. You could use to do the same. You argued that they had 12% slash resist they say they have high melee resists. Thats getting proven wrong, I havent kept pointing that out since its beside the point I just admitted you were right and I was wrong and moved along with the discussion. Thats what you should take after mate.

Tools like you should just play Midgard and spam their alliance/guild-chat how overpowered those bainshees are nuking their ROG-lord characters with 10% body-resists for 800 'but I got good HP and melee-resists m8 so Im templated'

Hehe Im gonna give you 1 point there...mids gets frustrated and whine abit on their alliance, you are smarter you never ever admit you are wrong no matter how blatant it is and go directly to FH or Mythic to complain so you can keep your OP chars unchanged, even when its ruled that blatant bug abuse is ok from your side.

I prefere the mid way!

/Charmangle

ps. Puppet dont run away from the discussions just try and keep it clean instead. You have a tendancy to only be able to argue with insults instead of keeping to your (sometimes) good points. ds.