The death of the Warlock.

[Dorimor1]

Warlock were one of the best utility classes, and most fun to play. I like the way Mythic introduce unique classes with their own individual spells and way of casting them (Bainshee/Vamp/Warl/Valk/Here) the only problem is balancing these classes.

 

[charmangle]

DAMN im gonna enjoy this!

Dont make me laugh, 99% of the warlocks where fully TOA'ed?

Well If you want I can mention 3 warlocks by name that all where fully toad ...can you do the same about non templated ones? Just give me 3 names (Active known warlocks)...if you cant...I guess that laughter got cought in your throat didnt it ?

You can purge baselinestun, 2K range mezz.

Hehe you need to play more as caster on another realm mate. What will happen is: Stun hits you, 1 nuke hits you for 600+ damage, you purge, second nuke hits you for 600+ damage, purge actually takes place, you start you spell, you are hit for last nuke worth 600+ damage = dead.

That purge really helped alot...now its 5 minutes till you can purge and die again vs stun.

Savages still offer the highest DPS as a tank ingame, bar none.

And ?

High DPS < Unccable speed + banelord.
Det + Sto: Still makes them drop behind so they will leave the serker alone in the assist train, and they will never catch up to the kiter.
Position stun: If you didnt know it its mid we are talking about not OP hib. They have a backstyle stun not a freaking strafe hit your sidestyle anytime stun. And When they cant catch up with the one they are kiting their backstun is crap. (Youve been arguing mid positionals with high rr mid tanks before...just roll a mid tank and try it out and youll see why they dont think you know what you are talking about.)

It would be an idea to give Banelord to Svg's and Valks/Thanes and remove it from BD's and WL's.

I say, damn nice idea and one of the most perceptive one ive seen you post here. Thanks for that mate!
I couldnt agree more. That would have been ALOT better. Making the classes viable for grouping again. But mythic never was accused of beeing that smart though and I doubt they will ever be.

Stop using the Stun-argument, get on to 2006,

IT STILL IS an I-win.
The purge just dont make any difference unless you are facing a rr 1 stuncaster that is. (see explenation on stuns on casters above)

This will happen almost every time you are hit by a baseline stun unless the caster is occupied by something else or is very low rr.

First of all, theurgists cant cast pets from 2500 range,

Im guessing you are playing dumb here on purpose ?
Theurgist is probably the most powerful interrupter in the game just because they can throw 2 pets, switch to anther target throw 2 new pets, and go on switching...no matter what freaking spec they are. And the point beeing that obviously went way above your level of understanding...is that every realm have a very powerful interrupter in it. Mids have bonedancers, hibs have banshees and alb have theurgists. All 3 are OP as hell.

Yeah, you're so right.

Thanks finally something nice!
But all sarchastics aside this is just another thing that just went past you...<whooosh>

If you want an explenation then: A warlock is extremly powerful 1vs1 but its crap solo in a siege defence compared to a solo animist in a keep. There are situations where alot of classes are extremly OP. Animists are WAAAY to OP in 2 cases: PVE and when PVE:ing mids and albs collective asses in keeps. Warlocks are OP in 1vs1.

And yes instakill shouldnt be. Neither should stun on a damage class or pets that do all your killing for you or ae nukes that do single nuke damage.

The difference between me and you is that I actually have the brains to admit when something is to OP even when its in my own realm, you dont.

But wasnt it mythics own opinion that hibs are OP complainers ? Even if it was meant as a phun joke?

Actualy, I play Hibernia.

I never ever said anything about warlocks not beeing OP if you have high matter resists. What I said was that it is curious that people complain about a class when they arent even making an effort to reduce the damage from it as much as they can.
I wouldnt choose 0 % body resist even though I get hit for 500+ damage by a Banshee nuke even with 50% body resists (which you do). Its still a matter of making the best of the situation.


/Charmangle

 

[Bugz]

Don't have a problem with WL's atm.

I need IP2 to kill a decent one generally but you need purge2/3 vs. a caster who gets the jump and so on.

 

[Puppet]

Well If you want I can mention 3 warlocks by name that all where fully toad ...can you do the same about non templated ones? Just give me 3 names (Active known warlocks)...if you cant...I guess that laughter got cought in your throat didnt it ?

Arumi, Flyboipip's WL, Emmet, Ridgeback, Hexin where all roggers, that is with something like 10% body 12% slash bollocks. So come again?

Hehe you need to play more as caster on another realm mate. What will happen is: Stun hits you, 1 nuke hits you for 600+ damage, you purge, second nuke hits you for 600+ damage, purge actually takes place, you start you spell, you are hit for last nuke worth 600+ damage = dead.

Yeah they all nuke you for 600+. Perhaps you need to get a good template with capped range, or perhaps use the range-primer abit more. And fgs, your chambers are instants, how the fuck can you not interrupt him before he stuns you :O Or, I know, the quickcast-stun.. well if you cant purge before he casts another spell, you're just shit, soz :<

High DPS < Unccable speed + banelord.
Det + Sto: Still makes them drop behind so they will leave the serker alone in the assist train, and they will never catch up to the kiter.
Position stun: If you didnt know it its mid we are talking about not OP hib. They have a backstyle stun not a freaking strafe hit your sidestyle anytime stun. And When they cant catch up with the one they are kiting their backstun is crap. (Youve been arguing mid positionals with high rr mid tanks before...just roll a mid tank and try it out and youll see why they dont think you know what you are talking about.)

Savages have a side-positional stun aswell as a backpositional. And I dont know how they cant catch up, seems to me thats something all tanks suffer from, but atleast Mids have a perma_diseaser in the group so shouldnt be too hard to catch a diseased target. Not to mention, light-tanks are all about positionals, it doesnt matter if you can stun from the frontal-arc 'anytime' in FG vs FG. Blademasters will be stunning from the side, savages from the back/side. No biggy.

I wouldnt choose 0 % body resist even though I get hit for 500+ damage by a Banshee nuke even with 50% body resists (which you do). Its still a matter of making the best of the situation.

Because body-resists are useful against different stuff then bainshees. Matter-damage is not for the majority of people.

 

[Huntingtons]

- Nice idea. My menta + lvl 52 pet + ml9 = Nice. :]

casters.
But I can tell u that _alot_ damage was made by crappy resist.
Many targets had a average of ~5% matter resist!
(So dont come talk rog-chars with me... ;])

Bottomline, take WL back to drawing board. Mid is still missing charm class
and pet spam class... *hint hint* Myth.

i got chambered by warlock as druid. 24% im ind old temp and resis buff 16% = 40%... did i die? yes i did...

lols @ all the whine about nerfed classes, SVG'S SUCKS LOLS QQ! WARLOCKS SUCKS LOLS QQ IRL! etc. etc. (anyway pre toa svg's wouldnt have dd200 or w/e coz it was an ability they had to quad hit it wasnt high base dmg). this thread is such a laugh when all the whiners gather togehter (hi puppet)

 

[Puppet]

i got chambered by warlock as druid. 24% im ind old temp and resis buff 16% = 40%... did i die? yes i did...

lols @ all the whine about nerfed classes, SVG'S SUCKS LOLS QQ! WARLOCKS SUCKS LOLS QQ IRL! etc. etc. (anyway pre toa svg's wouldnt have dd200 or w/e coz it was an ability they had to quad hit it wasnt high base dmg). this thread is such a laugh when all the whiners gather togehter (hi puppet)

It was high base-damage combined with insane style-growthrates combined with the high quad-rates.

The dps-buff on savages is working for base-damage (aswell) so you're looking at a flat-out +25% base-damage. Combined with 250 QUI and 39% haste, you're having insane base-damage, even before the quads.

Ofcourse its hard to comprehent, but the problem with the savage-dps wasnt only the bugged quads. Its the combination, by design, which is silly. Higher then hybrid-WS, 39% haste, 25% dps-buff, +ability to quad results in much higher damage then any of the other light-tanks can dish out. Then add the style-utility, which is superb, and the defense (combined with buffs) which is also great.

The nerfs of quads did alleviate the problems abit, the introduction of Banelord/Charge obviously removed alot of savages from the FG's, but thats not because the savage-class sucks, its simply because Charge+Banelord is so frigging great (and needed) in FG fights to counter the enemy mages somewhat.

 

[Olvoair]

Savages have a side-positional stun aswell as a backpositional.

Second in chain. kinda not easy to pull off vs a kiter ...

 

[Raven]

ahahhahahahaha etc bo ho cry more

 

[dub]

Savages have a side-positional stun aswell as a backpositional. And I dont know how they cant catch up, seems to me thats something all tanks suffer from, but atleast Mids have a perma_diseaser in the group so shouldnt be too hard to catch a diseased target. Not to mention, light-tanks are all about positionals, it doesnt matter if you can stun from the frontal-arc 'anytime' in FG vs FG. Blademasters will be stunning from the side, savages from the back/side. No biggy.



"hint" blademasters get charge "hint"

no biggy ?

 

[Bondoila]

Mids have bonedancers, hibs have banshees and alb have theurgists

Don't compare a bainshee with theru and bonedancer on the interrupts.
Bd banelord, pet (able to interrupt 3 targets). Theru is insane when it comes to interrupt. Bain got a single target taunt(uninterruptable)

I wouldnt choose 0 % body resist even though I get hit for 500+ damage by a Banshee nuke even with 50% body resists (which you do). Its still a matter of making the best of the situation.

People get high body mostly because of the sorcs, cabys not only the banshees. Get a clue before you post alot of crap.

 

[Bistrup666]

Aye, because savages, warlocks and pre-1.62 zerks where perfectly balanced, huh

Perhaps you could somehow grasp the concept of being overpowered has little to do with the fact if they can or can't kill me. I compare class-performances/damage with other classes.

Stuff like a Runemaster has a DD219, an Eldritch DD209, a Bainshee DD225, well thats all pretty close to eachother. If you would give tanks a delve-number for their damage, you would see that a Merc has DD120, a BM has DD120~, a post-1.62 zerk has DD120~ and the old-skool savage had DD200~.

That is *not* balanced. Has little to do with being able to kill my chars, Im sure a Berserker can still any of my characters, that dont make them OP.

Bainshee dd is 223

But it's BASELINE not spec like the other 2 so U take rm or eld baseline nuke wich is 179 and compare it thats 179 vs 223 a big difference.

 

[raid]

Warlock was as OP as it gets, any nerf was very well deserved. I wouldnt miss them a bit even if it made all of them disappear. And i'm mostly a midgard player myself.

 

[Azathrim]

Warlock was as OP as it gets, any nerf was very well deserved. I wouldnt miss them a bit even if it made all of them disappear. And i'm mostly a midgard player myself.

Agreed, the way they were when introduced was horrible.

But, Midgard still lack a class in sieges to counter the shroom, cones and zombie rezzes. Not to mention ofcourse, in stand-offs with the same shrooms, bolt range mezzes, etc.

 

[charmangle]

Well If you want I can mention 3 warlocks by name that all where fully toad ...can you do the same about non templated ones? Just give me 3 names (Active known warlocks)...if you cant...I guess that laughter got cought in your throat didnt it ?

Arumi, Flyboipip's WL, Emmet, Ridgeback, Hexin where all roggers, that is with something like 10% body 12% slash bollocks. So come again?

Sigh do you just come here and make things up ?
Flyboy and Arumi are fully toad...the rest I dont know personally but ill ask them.

So in your own words but this time correct:
Get your facts straight first!

You cant say that you really are so stupid as it seems here! To think that anyone would run around without even getting a 200gold ring of torrent to get their resists up ? Please tell me you arent that stupid mate...:/

As I said there just arent any such active players around and even a halfwit as you should understand that. No matter what class they play...

But in all fairness Ill ask Emmet, Ridgeback and Hexin what templates they are using atm. (even though youve already shown that you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Arumi and flyboy)

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Don't compare a bainshee with theru and bonedancer on the interrupts.
Bd banelord, pet (able to interrupt 3 targets). Theru is insane when it comes to interrupt. Bain got a single target taunt(uninterruptable)

Sigh...I just dont think I have to explain every little thing time and time again every time a new person answeres. But apparently this guy needs a private session...

We are talking about WHEN a Banshee here is OP! The Banshee is OP ONLY AND ONLY in serg or cramped quarters. Meaning inside siege/bridges and towards sergs. THATS when they are horrible interrupts at the SAME time as they have damage output in that interrupt.

BUT they also have a long range uninterruptable that is very good vs ccers.

Please atleast try to understand the concept of the arugment before you answere...dont try and find flaws by jumping to stupid conclusions.

People get high body mostly because of the sorcs, cabys not only the banshees. Get a clue before you post alot of crap.

Yes but we are not discussing that you idiot. We are discussing Banshees atm. How hard can that be to understand ? IF the exact situations were reversed I would not choose to reduce Matter resists and then complain about the matter damage I get. Is that easier for your peanut brain to comprehend ? Since you seem to have a problem unerstanding the argument when I was talking about the Banshee damage...

Get a clue before you post alot of crap!

/Charmangle

 

[Vodkafairy]

Get a clue before you post alot of crap!

 

[charmangle]

Good points all over mate! From my view though

Savages have a side-positional stun aswell as a backpositional. And I dont know how they cant catch up, seems to me thats something all tanks suffer from, but atleast Mids have a perma_diseaser in the group so shouldnt be too hard to catch a diseased target. Not to mention, light-tanks are all about positionals, it doesnt matter if you can stun from the frontal-arc 'anytime' in FG vs FG. Blademasters will be stunning from the side, savages from the back/side. No biggy.



"hint" blademasters get charge "hint"

no biggy ?

Talk about a delight to see this kind of arguments instead of the halfwit comments of some other people!

Hmm...are you sure a savage have an anytime side stun style ? (On hand to hand that is ?)

Well the catching up is still a big problem. This mainly because it disturbs the tanktrain that is very important to mids. The serker will arrive at its target 10 seconds before the savage. Alone in mid enemy area...that will often land him in trouble or force him to leave the area leaving the group banelorded but with no real threats on them to follow up the banelord effects.

It is ofc not an impossible situation but the fact of the matter is that mids would most often rather just choose a tank train that can stick together and one/two-shot things thanks to the assisting. Thats basically the problem for Savages atm...

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Well Id prefere it if people could just stick to the argument...

Hehe well I would just prefere if people would stick the argumenting instead of heaving out insults. It doesnt matter if one thinks the arguments are bad, there is just no point in getting personal. Basically when you cant keep an argument without getting personal there just isnt any reason for the oposite side not to point out your own flaws...

This guy just added something really unnecessary therefor he gets it back, since his arguments were just stupid.

/Charmanlge

 

[Puppet]

Sigh do you just come here and make things up ?
Flyboy and Arumi are fully toad...the rest I dont know personally but ill ask them.

Dude... we're talking in the past sence, right? As in.. the patch pre-nerf. Arumi even said on the boards, and people who have hit him with various damage-types can agree, he was *NOT* templated at that time. Yeah he might be templated now, but pre-nerf he definitly wasnt templated. I was making comments about ROG-warlocks getting muchos RP's pre-nerf killing everything in sight.

Dont believe me? Sure, take a look at this. Thats a level 48 ROGbainshee nuking Arumi and leeching some RP's to get some RA's. That screenie is 2 months old, where Arumi was RR8. 10% body-resists... templated? riiight.

You cant say that you really are so stupid as it seems here! To think that anyone would run around without even getting a 200gold ring of torrent to get their resists up ? Please tell me you arent that stupid mate...:/

I think the majority of the templates on my TOA'ed characters have prooven to non_retards Im not stupid. However 1 ring of the torrent for 200G doesnt make you templated, soz :<

But in all fairness Ill ask Emmet, Ridgeback and Hexin what templates they are using atm. (even though youve already shown that you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Arumi and flyboy)

/Charmangle

You should ask them what 'template' they where using when they where racking up 100-300k RP/week outskilling everyone. Not what they got now, when TOA'ing goes faster then Moderna PL'ing.

 

[Thorwyn]

Hehe well I would just prefere if people would stick the argumenting instead of heaving out insults. It doesnt matter if one thinks the arguments are bad, there is just no point in getting personal.

Practice what you preach then?

 

[pip]

Cough = warlock = Preacherboypip = Rog

 

[atos]

I disagree on most warlocks being untemplated at that time. I can asure you 90% made sure to have capped melee resists.

And savage are in favour of groups in all ways. Only reason people chose zerks is because banelord is extremly overpowered and zerks have it.

 

[Puppet]

Cough = warlock = Preacherboypip = Rog

ty ^^

Oh and Trollum, capped melee-resists doesnt mean templated. Let alone TOA'ed

 

[Maeloch]

Let alone TOA'ed

Don't think I got banelord dumped by a warlock ever, not once. NS'd about 3 times tho'

 

[Puppet]

Bainshee dd is 223

But it's BASELINE not spec like the other 2 so U take rm or eld baseline nuke wich is 179 and compare it thats 179 vs 223 a big difference.

Yeah then it is a big difference, however you shouldn't forget that bainshees have 1 baseline-also, no baseline CC (root/stun/mezz whatever) and cannot spec for a single-target DD in any of their spec-lines.

So yes, when comparing baseline-nukes, the 179 vs 223 is a big-difference. However, when comparing specline-nukes, 0 vs 219 is an even bigger difference.

Being a baseline-DD might be abit silly from some PoV's, however people forget that bainshees dont have 3 normal baselines like other casters do.

If they put the current baseline-DD into specline, it wouldnt change much, people would still spec that line for the DD, however it would some bainshees wouldnt even have access to a 1500 range castable-DD. Going full Phanta-spec would mean *NO* other damage except PBAE.

Could give bainshees 3 normal baselines, and put the current DD in spec-line. Endresult would be 95% of the bainshees would still spec for it (as they did now) and the whines would stay :O

 

[Arumos]

Unfortunatly due to my lazyness my wl has never been toaed with a sc.

got all the damage equip and my melee resists are capped, altho obviosuly wearing only rogs and stuff my magic resists are dire

only ml1 on it also. but thats all you need to interupt a zerg to bomb.

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

Sigh do you just come here and make things up ?
Flyboy and Arumi are fully toad...the rest I dont know personally but ill ask them.

Lol, that bit's class, should take some of your advice...

So in your own words but this time correct:
Get your facts straight first!

 

[Eeben]

i just find it funny to c how many bd's there is now after the wl nerf.. some ppl just cant get enough of easymode i guess ..

 

[Puppet]

Lol, that bit's class, should take some of your advice...

Funny how 2 of the 3 I mentioned where TOA'ed according to Charmangle, yet they come here to tell they ain't :O

 

[charmangle]

Ofc I do that mate...

Practice what you preach then?

Well I do that...uptil the point someone gets personal against me. Im not gonna let someone walk all over me without recipicating in the same manner.
So its very easy to keep it a clean discussion with nice arguments back and forth...just dont start getting personal with insults...if no one starts then it is kept clean.

/Charmangle