Football The 2009/2010 Season Thread

[megadave]

7 points clear LOL

I cba to do mine, too many fixtures still

 

[cHodAX]

7 points clear LOL

I filled it in honestly bud and I don't see us losing more than 7 points really. I might be proven wrong of course, it often happens. That said though I honestly believe it is ours to throw away now, bit like the scousers last year! DOH! :lol:

You can just fill in the Chelsea, United and Arsenal results btw, it will still update the top 3 and save you some time.

 

[Shagrat]

bit closer than mine then.

Man Utd stilll top on 83, Arsenal second on 82, then Chelsea on 82 as well but with worse goal diff.

4th Man City
5th Aston Villa


Just cant see Liverpool getting out of their current slump, and think Man Utd have enough in the tank to hold off Arsenal, despite having a slightly harder run in.

Burnley, Hull and Portsmouth to go down. Hull are just in free fall at the moment. Whatever they can do now will be too little too late I think.

 

[Turamber]

In my prediction table I ended with

1. Man United 88 points
2. Chelsea 87 points
3. Arsenal 86 points
4. Villa 69 points

Man City were 5th, Liverpool 6th, Spurs 7th. Portsmouth, Hull and Burnley to get relegated. I was even quite pessimistic about some of the Villa results, not that I actually can see us getting fourth. We just don't have the depth or rotation to deal with the current two games a week.

 

[Marc]

Rooney can not do the job that Messi and Ronaldo do, I dont think anyone here would argue that... but Messi and Ronaldo can not do Rooney's job as well as him nor do they bring the diversity to the pitch that Rooney does.

Messi and Ronaldo a more complete player? No chance.
Messi and Ronaldo are more complete ATTACKERS, but more complete players then Rooney, not even close.

Neither of these players can do the defensive duties that Rooney can do, they just dont have the defensive discipline in order to forgo their attacking game in order to forefil any defensive objectives given to them. They just hope their attacking threat is enough to stop teams pushing too much on their side of the pitch.
Messi is no where near as good as Rooney in terms of playing upfront on his own. To get the best out of Messi he needs to be on the wing, or playing more of a "free role".

In terms of pure skill you will put Messi and Ronaldo ahead of Rooney. But because of what Rooney can do in the position he players you can not deny he is more then worth to be put up against these 2 players for the World player of the year, and you can not say he wouldnt be a worthy winner of it given his performances.. which are not just about the goals he scored but also what he offers to the rest of the team.

...
Maybe im different to most, especially those that love spanish football, in which I have a large amount of respect to the defensive side of the game, an area with which most people seem to forget about completely and just think it all about skills and goals. Sure without defenders we would have basketball scores, but it would make the game of football a complete mockery.
As such, just because Messi and Ronaldo are so great going forward it will never take away the fact they are very lax in the defensive side of the game (especially Ronaldo)

But their job isnt to be defensive. I dont understand how you can mention Rooney in the same breath as Messi in terms of ability, I really dont and im not trying to be clever here. Messi is far better than rooney in every aspect except strength wise and finishing where Messi is just as good a finisher as rooney but every other aspect of his game, in the attacking sense is streets ahead of rooney.

Diversity? How much diversity do you want from Messi. Hes scored 34 goals this season and has got 29 assists and is involved in pretty much every Barca goal scored. By diversity I take it you mean Rooney playing from Deep when Man United lost possession. Thats about as far as he backtracks when united dont have possession but if you watched Barca and took note, 9 times of 10, thats exactly where messi is when we counter attack.

Ive nothing against Rooney. Hes a fantastic finisher and plays with heart on his sleeve. You know you will get 110% from him, but there is no way hes as good as messi. No way. Ronaldo is as close as you will get to being as good as Messi

 

[Ch3tan]

Mine was 1) Man U 2) Arse 3) chelski 4)man city 5) Spurs 6) scousers 7) villa

 

[Marc]

I had everton 1st and Arse 6th. I dont think I did it right

 

[Corran]

stuff <diversity> stuff

Diversity = Ability to play in a whole range of positions and do a good or greater job in them

Rooney is known to do a very good job Upfront alone, as a deep lying striker, as an attacking left/right midfielder, as a standard left/right midfielder and it also been stated that he is able to do a decent job when playing in a full back position.

The standard left/right midfielder and the full back positions pull greatly on the defensive ability that Rooney poses which neither Ronaldo or Messi have.

I already said in the terms of pure attacking skill Rooney is not as near the ability of Messi or Ronaldo. But in terms of all round FOOTBALLING ability that takes in the defensive side of the game Rooney can give more to the team then pure attacking ability.

And once again, it is the fact that Rooney has this defensive diversity to his game that I will happily place him up with Messi and Ronaldo because I rate the defensive game just as highly as the attacking game - as such a player that can bring both sides of this to their game to a high standard will get as much recognition from me as a player that can only bring the attacking side of the game at an incredibly high standard.

Just because you dont rate defensive skills as highly as I do will always see you raving about the other 2 alot more then Rooney. Me, I see all 3 of them being a closer match because I rate the defensive side of Rooney's ability to make up for what he lacks in the pure skill of the other 2.

 

[cHodAX]

Don't rise to it bud. Messi is a great player but Marc is going through a phase of fanboi'ism and is making sweeping statements. One thing I will say with absolute confidence, Messi is not in the same league as Zidane, not yet. If Marc thinks otherwise that is great, his is fully entitled to his opinion as am I to mine but Zidane achieved so many great things and is only now being mentioned in the same breath as the all time greats. Messi does not deserved to be mentioned alongside Maradonna, Zidane and Pele. Not yet, hasn't done enough, especially at international level.

I will be as happy as Marc to say so when and if he proves me wrong this summer, I love watching great players and Messi is a great player. I don't use that word lightly either.

 

[Marc]

My liverpool supporting mate summed it up better on another forum

"People tug over Messi because, quite simply, he's the most gifted footballer on the planet. There is no doubting it, he's the out and out star of the best team in the world, he is on a different level to the rest of the field. Most people have thought this for a while now, Barca's success just cemented that, just like United's success in 2008 cemented Ronaldo's place as one of the greats of our generation. Messi is a stupendously good player, Rooney is nowhere near him and you can call me biased, but nobody comes near him. He's a truly special player doing special things every week, players like him come around once a generation, if that, I think every wet dream over him is more than justified.

Most United fans will say 'I wouldn't swap Rooney for another player in the world' which is fair enough, it's to be expected, he's their star, the fan favourite and he's English. But, I'm sure if they just watched things without their tinted specs, they'd have no reservations about admitting the gap between Rooney and Messi is huge.

Rooney's in the form of his life right now, but he'll never be in the bracket of a player like Messi."

 

[Marc]

Don't rise to it bud. Messi is a great player but Marc is going through a phase of fanboi'ism and is making sweeping statements. One thing I will say with absolute confidence, Messi is not in the same league as Zidane, not yet. If Marc thinks otherwise that is great, his is fully entitled to his opinion as am I to mine but Zidane achieved so many great things and is only now being mentioned in the same breath as the all time greats. Messi does not deserved to be mentioned alongside Maradonna, Zidane and Pele. Not yet, hasn't done enough, especially at international level.

I will be as happy as Marc to say so when and if he proves me wrong this summer, I love watching great players and Messi is a great player. I don't use that word lightly either.

SO when Maradonna claims Messi is better than he was, we shouldnt take notice?

 

[Ch3tan]

And you are looking at things through your Barca tinted specs Marc.... no different.

 

[Marc]

And you are looking at things through your Barca tinted specs Marc.... no different.

Oh come on. Its not just me that can see it. Look around the internet. Its everyone bar Man United fans!

 

[cHodAX]

SO when Maradonna claims Messi is better than he was, we shouldnt take notice?

Yes, he is motivated to motivate the player and being gracious at the same time. Maradonna achieved more over a much longer period of time, that is why he is considered the greatest ever by many.

 

[cHodAX]

Oh come on. Its not just me that can see it. Look around the internet. Its everyone bar Man United fans!

Eh? I don't consider Rooney to be better than Messi, not even as talented all-round in many regards. I have no axe to grind here, I just don't believe he is the finished article yet or is ready to rank alongside the legends of the game.

 

[megadave]

you cant really comment for 10 years unless he wins Argentina a world cup single handedly in the summer.

 

[Azurus]

Would Messi be the same player if he wasn't lining up alongide Xavi and Iniesta?

 

[Corran]

Would Messi be the same player if he wasn't lining up alongide Xavi and Iniesta?

nope, as proven by performances witht he argentina squad

 

[megadave]

imo maradona is so bad he'll hinder any player

 

[Lethul]

Would Messi be the same player if he wasn't lining up alongide Xavi and Iniesta?

Why ? Does a WC medal somehow make him a better player? I don't understand

 

[Genedril]

Why ? Does a WC medal somehow make him a better player? I don't understand

If he wins a WC medal under Maradonna then it makes him the best bleeding player ever by a country mile without a doubt.

Not going to happen though - Maradonna was a genius as a player (best ever imo but I could be biased) but is shaping up to be the worlds worst manager. He's making Domenech look like someone who knows what he's doing....

Maybe all those drugs have done something to his brain; he should donate his body to medical science.

 

[Vladamir]

Sky Sports | Football | News | Ivanovic blow for Blues

Fucking *****hitwank injuries

 

[Marc]

nope, as proven by performances witht he argentina squad

How much have you seen of his Argentina games to make that assessment? Im guessing very little so i will enlighten you. He was player of the tournament at both the Copa America and Olympics and ran a pretty much full strength brazil team ragged at the olympics. He has also been head and shoulders, Argentinas best player in the world cup qualifiers.

His performances for Argentina have been light years ahead of those of Rooneys for England. I must admit, in most England games, you have to wonder if Rooney is actually playing. Thats the difference between Messi and Rooney. Rooney relies 100% on the players around him. He cant make things happen like Messi can. Most of Messi's goals come out of nothing. He picks the ball up in a pretty innocuous positions then before you know it. Bang. Goal.

Anyway. We are just going round in circles. I think Messi is better, you think Rooney is just as good so we will leave it. I will leave you a video though. Could rooney do this? Not in a million years.

YouTube - Messi Wonder Goal {HIGH QUALITY}

 

[Betel]

How much have you seen of his Argentina games to make that assessment? Im guessing very little so i will enlighten you. He was player of the tournament at both the Copa America and Olympics and ran a pretty much full strength brazil team ragged at the olympics. He has also been head and shoulders, Argentinas best player in the world cup qualifiers.

His performances for Argentina have been light years ahead of those of Rooneys for England. I must admit, in most England games, you have to wonder if Rooney is actually playing. Thats the difference between Messi and Rooney. Rooney relies 100% on the players around him. He cant make things happen like Messi can. Most of Messi's goals come out of nothing. He picks the ball up in a pretty innocuous positions then before you know it. Bang. Goal.

Anyway. We are just going round in circles. I think Messi is better, you think Rooney is just as good so we will leave it. I will leave you a video though. Could rooney do this? Not in a million years.

Whilst he has had some good performances for Argentina, he has had some very average ones. It's common knowledge that he doesn't play as well for Argentina than he does for Barca. Just look at the friendly at the Emirates - Kaka completely overshadowed him.

Also, I really have no idea where you get the impression that Messi was the player of the tournament for the Copa America. He may be your 'player of the tournament' but I would like to politely remind you that Brazil (the team that Messi 'ragged) beat Argentina 3-0 in the final.

Also, pointing to goals Messi has scored and claiming that Rooney could not them score himself is very foolish. I could point you to his goal against Newcastle and say Messi could not replicate that. They are two different players, so neither point is valid.

Messi is probably the world's best at the moment but I am still not 100% convinced by him. I would love to see him play against the likes of Stoke - I watch a lot of La Liga and it is much easier for players in that league than many people realise.

We'll see. If he can lead Barcelona to more titles and the World Cup with Argentina then it will put everything beyond doubt.

I think Maradona is one of his main obstacles with regards to succeeding with Argentina. He is a very selfish man and part of me thinks that he does not want Messi to surpass him (of course, providing it is actually within him to do so). Hasn't Maradona played Messi out of position for some of Argentina's games? He should really be building the team around Messi rather than saying that players like Maschenaro are the most valued members of his team.

 

[Turamber]

Such fanboism about Messi. He's an excellent player and a great prospect for sure - but best player ever? What a load of bollocks. For one thing I don't like, or even see the need to make such statements about any player. It is too difficult to compare talents between players of different eras and who played in different positions.

But, to be frank, he's a kid. Come back to us in 10 years time and we'll talk.

 

[cHodAX]

Anyway. We are just going round in circles. I think Messi is better, you think Rooney is just as good so we will leave it. I will leave you a video though. Could rooney do this? Not in a million years.

Now you are talking bollocks again, people are saying Messi isn't the greatest ever but you keep coming back to the Rooney comparison. Give it a rest, it is coming over as pure fanboi'ism now.

 

[Raven]

Messi needs a good haircut too, ponce

 

[Marc]

Whilst he has had some good performances for Argentina, he has had some very average ones. It's common knowledge that he doesn't play as well for Argentina than he does for Barca. Just look at the friendly at the Emirates - Kaka completely overshadowed him.

Also, I really have no idea where you get the impression that Messi was the player of the tournament for the Copa America. He may be your 'player of the tournament' but I would like to politely remind you that Brazil (the team that Messi 'ragged) beat Argentina 3-0 in the final.

Also, pointing to goals Messi has scored and claiming that Rooney could not them score himself is very foolish. I could point you to his goal against Newcastle and say Messi could not replicate that. They are two different players, so neither point is valid.

Messi is probably the world's best at the moment but I am still not 100% convinced by him. I would love to see him play against the likes of Stoke - I watch a lot of La Liga and it is much easier for players in that league than many people realise.

We'll see. If he can lead Barcelona to more titles and the World Cup with Argentina then it will put everything beyond doubt.

I think Maradona is one of his main obstacles with regards to succeeding with Argentina. He is a very selfish man and part of me thinks that he does not want Messi to surpass him (of course, providing it is actually within him to do so). Hasn't Maradona played Messi out of position for some of Argentina's games? He should really be building the team around Messi rather than saying that players like Maschenaro are the most valued members of his team.

Sorry, he won young player of the tournament as he was only 18. In fact, I think hes won player (young player) of the tournament at every tournament he has played in. As for Kaka overshadowing him lol, he was 17 at the time and had hardly played any games for barcelona. Sure, hes by far the best player in the world now, by a long distance, but back then at 17, kaka was streets ahead of him. When is Wayne Rooney going to show us on the international stage what he can do? Apart from Stamping on Carvalho, he has done nothing of note.

Maradonna doesnt like Messi. This is why he says what he says and yes, he played him somewhere between holding midfielder and centre midfielder against venuezula in a world cup qualifier, but messi still managed to score and get man of the match.

 

[Marc]

Now you are talking bollocks again, people are saying Messi isn't the greatest ever but you keep coming back to the Rooney comparison. Give it a rest, it is coming over as pure fanboi'ism now.

because Corran thinks rooney is just as good as messi thats why. So it stands to reason that if I am going to talk about Messi to corran, I should mention Rooney. Its not rocket science!!

 

[Ch3tan]

Marc you are reverting to the Toht school of debating, Corran said Rooney is a more complete all round player, he said Messi is a better attacking player. Don't ignore or spin what people have said to make your point please.

Also you are preaching to deaf ears, it's quite clear a fair few of us are not as convinced by Messi as you are, and this is mainly due to La Liga being so open and easy for attacking players.