Football The 2009/2010 Season Thread

[Calaen]

Chelsea have no width at all, and Blackburn showed yesterday in the second half, if you push up on their full backs, it causes Chelsea real problems. granted if bosingwa and Cole are fit, trying to do that is alot more difficult, but it's a squad game and you have to expect injuries at various points of the season.

Mikel isn't good enough, Sturridge isn't good enough, Ballack, Deco (past it), Joe cole is probably going to leave, Kalou is gash, Anelka looks lost atm.

I still get the impression that the Chelsea players feel that they deserve to win things just because they did under Mourinho, say what you want about him, but under him Chelsea would not have dropped points to Blackburn yesterday. The body language from all of the supposed big players looks all wrong. It's almost as if Terry, Ballack, Lampard and Drogba have decided that they want a new manager already.

If they get their wish, I only hope I don't have to read another new paper story from JT telling me how everything is better under this new manager.

Because to be honest the only guy he hasn't said made any difference was Grant and they went the closest to winning things with him.

 

[Vladamir]

Again though it comes down to the manager not being able to formulate a squad based on his vision and playing style.

Ranieri did a damn fine job but Roman threw his toys out the pram because Mourinho was available. Mourinho added to the squad and made it highly successful, Grant was given a bit of money and it helped. Scolari had a bit but he was just a terrible second choice to Ancelotti Now that Roman finally has the man he wants, he needs to give him time rather than chop and change, else we'll end up worse than Madrid when it comes to managers.

Get rid of 5 players, bring in 3, promote some youth to get regular time, just look how the likes of Jonny Evans, Darren Gibson, Aaron Ramsey and Kieran Gibbs etc are getting on at United and Arsenal respectively - give them a chance and they will shine. Give them 2 games at the beginning of the season and they'll end up going elsewhere.

 

[Ch3tan]

Ranieri did a damn fine job but Roman threw his toys out the pram because Mourinho was available. season and they'll end up going elsewhere.

Did you see Jimmy Flloyd on Goals on Sunday this week? He was asked about playing under Ranieri, he answered " I love the guy to bits, but Mourinho is a much better manager. One week (under Ranieri) we would play 442, the next game 352, the next 433 etc."

 

[Marc]

While I admit the spanish league is by far better on a technical level, this also means that non of them know how to tackle or don't want to. During yesterdays match I felt like I was watching a Roy of the rovers comic on TV, the defenders were taking turn at sliding the opposite direction before Messi was anywhere near them.

So while Messi is great and the current world player of the year, I can't see him scoring 30+ goals in the premier league, where he won't be allowed to run around with the ball all match. So ronney gets my vote, although I suspect it boils down to whoever wins the champions league and makes an imperssion in the WC.

Indeed. I forgot we kept super duper man United goal less in the champions league final. Not bad considering we dont know how to tackle. In fact, we dominated super duper man United that much, that it looked like it was super duper man united who didnt know how to tackle, given we kept possession so easily and made your midfield look like schoolboys

Messi will win world player of the year. Hes on a different level to Rooney and Ronaldo.

 

[Calaen]

Indeed. I forgot we kept super duper man United goal less in the champions league final. Not bad considering we dont know how to tackle. In fact, we dominated super duper man United that much, that it looked like it was super duper man united who didnt know how to tackle, given we kept possession so easily and made your midfield look like schoolboys

Messi will win world player of the year. Hes on a different level to Rooney and Ronaldo.

What about the year before over two legs? When we kept your super dooper spanish team to 0 goals? And Messi under raps for 180 minutes? Cheslea handled you very well also over two legs, it was hardly the creative brilliance or ability of Messi that got yuo through the chelsea game either.

We can argue over Rooney and Messi all day long, but no one can deny that that the premier league is a harder division to play in week in week out, because of the physical aspect.

Like I said, he is a superb player, but he is made to look even better when you have people throwing themselves on the floor when the ball isn't even there yet.

I still fancy Arsenal over the two legs as well!!!

 

[Marc]

What about the year before over two legs? When we kept your super dooper spanish team to 0 goals? And Messi under raps for 180 minutes? Cheslea handled you very well also over two legs, it was hardly the creative brilliance or ability of Messi that got yuo through the chelsea game either.

We can argue over Rooney and Messi all day long, but no one can deny that that the premier league is a harder division to play in week in week out, because of the physical aspect.

Like I said, he is a superb player, but he is made to look even better when you have people throwing themselves on the floor when the ball isn't even there yet.

I still fancy Arsenal over the two legs as well!!!

I never said La Liga is harder. It isnt. No way. More skilful? Possibly.Probably.

I tell you what would make a great game, a La Liga 11 v a Premiership 11.

 

[soze]

I tell you what would make a great game, a La Liga 11 v a Premiership 11.

I have always wanted to see a European competition like that during the summers with no competition the best manager in the league with the best players play for the European Leagues Cup

 

[Calaen]

Would be gerat, although you would get the small clubs complaining non of their players were picked

 

[Marc]

Barcelona president Joan Laporta hailed his prize asset as: "The best player in the history of football."

Check out his second goal.

YouTube - Show for Messi - Zaragoza vs Barcelona 2-4 All Goals and Highlights 21.03.10

 

[Calaen]

I watched it last night, Zlatan is having a real tough time atm.

 

[Calo]

Barcelona president Joan Laporta hailed his prize asset as: "The best player in the history of football."

Check out his second goal.

YouTube - Show for Messi - Zaragoza vs Barcelona 2-4 All Goals and Highlights 21.03.10

God i hate that.
on voetbalzone.nl (big dutch football site) everyone is going on about messi being better then maradonna, cruijf, garrincha, zidane, best etc etc..

How the fuck can you say that? Football has evolved alot thanks to new technology, better training, alot better medic care etc.

 

[Madmaxx]

such shoddy defending from barca for the 2 goals they gave away epecially the 2nd one they guy had alot of space. and that other team just kept diving into tackles the last barca goal especially.

 

[Marc]

I watched it last night, Zlatan is having a real tough time atm.

If you check my posts at the time of the signing, I did fear this. You cant doubt his ability, I just dont know what it is about him. We should have signed Villa when we had the chance. Now that boat has sailed.

 

[Marc]

God i hate that.
on voetbalzone.nl (big dutch football site) everyone is going on about messi being better then maradonna, cruijf, garrincha, zidane, best etc etc..

How the fuck can you say that? Football has evolved alot thanks to new technology, better training, alot better medic care etc.

He is as good as all the names you mentioned. Hes not doing it in an era where footballers used to enjoy 10 pints and a curry after games either. Just so you know im not biased, I would put Ronaldo up there too.

I have a feeling that either Messi or Ronaldo and quite even possibly both, will surpass Cruijs's record of 3 balloon d'ors. At the end of this season, one of them will already have 2 Balloon d'ors. My money is on Messi who has scored 34 goals in 38 games already.

 

[Ch3tan]

He is as good as all the names you mentioned. Hes not doing it in an era where footballers used to enjoy 10 pints and a curry after games either. Just so you know im not biased, I would put Ronaldo up there too.

I have a feeling that either Messi or Ronaldo and quite even possibly both, will surpass Cruijs's record of 3 balloon d'ors. At the end of this season, one of them will already have 2 Balloon d'ors. My money is on Messi who has scored 34 goals in 38 games already.

While I think Messi will win the award, I don't think he deserves it any more than Ronaldo or Rooney. It's simply politics. Also Messi needs to be awesome on the world stage as well to really be classed amongst the legends he is being compared to.

 

[cHodAX]

Messi has a long way to go before he can be considered alongside those names, especially Zidane who is the greatest modern day footballer to lace up a pair of boots. Is Messi brilliant? Undoubtley but there is still too much hype going on, when he wins a world cup almost singlehandedly or plays astonishingly well at a world cup the he will have earned the right to be considered amonst those legends. So far he has not reached anywhere close to that level for his country though.

 

[Marc]

Messi has a long way to go before he can be considered alongside those names, especially Zidane who is the greatest modern day footballer to lace up a pair of boots. Is Messi brilliant? Undoubtley but there is still too much hype going on, when he wins a world cup almost singlehandedly or plays astonishingly well at a world cup the he will have earned the right to be considered amonst those legends. So far he has not reached anywhere close to that level for his country though.

How can you say there is too much hype about messi? What more does he have to do to convince people he is a special talent? He's 22 and hasnt had the chance yet to show his skills on the international stage except for copa america 2007 and the Olympics in 2008, in which he won young player of the tournament and player of the tournament respectively.

In 20 years time, people will be mentioning messi as the best player ever. Even better than Pele. Laporte is right.

 

[Marc]

Antonio Cassano thinks so too.

"I will not be supporting either team, but in that match the greatest player in the history of football will be playing"

"I have never seen someone at his age play like he does. I hope Barcelona win the Champions League, that way Messi will win the Ballon d'Or."

"Maradona? He made history too, but Messi is the greatest player I have ever seen. Maradona played in a different era, it's more difficult to play these days."

"Cristiano Ronaldo? He's good."

 

[Wonk]

Messi could become one of the greatest ever, but the same was said about Ronaldinho. Let's see if he can keep playing on the level he plays on, and avoid injuries. I wonder whether the steriods/hormones will trouble him in a few years.

 

[Calo]

yea oke, but what cruijf ment for the whole footbal world.. even barca nowaday's can thank him. dunno if messi will ever mean that much, as skills-wise no doubt he will be the greatest together with zidane I'm quite curious if messi would be that great if he played at chelsea, or man utd or whatever team other then barca. xavi and iniesta have a MASSIVE effect on how messi can do what he wants.

 

[Corran]

How can you say there is too much hype about messi? What more does he have to do to convince people he is a special talent? He's 22 and hasnt had the chance yet to show his skills on the international stage except for copa america 2007 and the Olympics in 2008, in which he won young player of the tournament and player of the tournament respectively.

In 20 years time, people will be mentioning messi as the best player ever. Even better than Pele. Laporte is right.

20 years time is not now.. at the moment Messi cant be put up with the all time greats.

He has played plenty of international games (over 40 caps) and hasnt made the impact in international football that the all time greats did (even at their younger ages I feel they did more for their teams).

Messi has got time to do so, but he will NOT be the worlds greatest ever until he actually does this. For the time being he is merely one of the 3 current world best players (each of them are worthy of it), and has the potential to be one of (if not "the") the best in the world ever. But it is ONLY POTENTIAL, and will remain so until he can do the business in internationals.

HOWEVER -- the commentators that say Messi makes his own goals is clueless and has never watched Barcelona and Argentina.

The reason he is so good for Barcelona is
1) How spanish football is played, especially by the lesser sides (trying to outplay a much superior team),
2) How much help he gets from his team mates (movement in pulling away opposition players and the balls played to him).

With argentina
1) he is up against a different league of defenders (re: defenders that actually defend and dont try outplay)
2) more often then not he is given the ball and told "Go do something on your own whilst we have a sit down".

These two combine to show that he requires good players around him (which Rooney does for sure, Ronaldo also needed more help in the prem) and isnt the player that some people try to make out he is. He is by no means head and shoulders above the other 2 players that get discussed in the same light as him.

This is of course my opinion, but at least I can see that 3 players, at 3 different teams and of 3 different nationalities are actually very close to each other in terms of ability

 

[Wonk]

Park, Vingaard and.... carrick?

 

[Embattle]

Like in F1 you can't compare greats across time into just have the flavour of the time appear the greatest ever.

 

[Marc]

20 years time is not now.. at the moment Messi cant be put up with the all time greats.

He has played plenty of international games (over 40 caps) and hasnt made the impact in international football that the all time greats did (even at their younger ages I feel they did more for their teams).

Messi has got time to do so, but he will NOT be the worlds greatest ever until he actually does this. For the time being he is merely one of the 3 current world best players (each of them are worthy of it), and has the potential to be one of (if not "the") the best in the world ever. But it is ONLY POTENTIAL, and will remain so until he can do the business in internationals.

HOWEVER -- the commentators that say Messi makes his own goals is clueless and has never watched Barcelona and Argentina.

The reason he is so good for Barcelona is
1) How spanish football is played, especially by the lesser sides (trying to outplay a much superior team),
2) How much help he gets from his team mates (movement in pulling away opposition players and the balls played to him).

With argentina
1) he is up against a different league of defenders (re: defenders that actually defend and dont try outplay)
2) more often then not he is given the ball and told "Go do something on your own whilst we have a sit down".

These two combine to show that he requires good players around him (which Rooney does for sure, Ronaldo also needed more help in the prem) and isnt the player that some people try to make out he is. He is by no means head and shoulders above the other 2 players that get discussed in the same light as him.

This is of course my opinion, but at least I can see that 3 players, at 3 different teams and of 3 different nationalities are actually very close to each other in terms of ability

Only united fans discuss Rooney in the same light as the other two :S Rooney is definitely not very close to the other 2 in terms of ability. Hes a world class player who is relishing being the main man at Man United, but both Messi and Ronaldo are far more complete players than Rooney. When Messi won the balloon d'or he was 21 during that season. Think back to when Ronaldo and Rooney were the same age. Neither were close to the player Messi was at that age. In my opinion of course. Its scary to think how good he can become if he stays injury free

Personally, i think the way to stopping messi is by stopping Xavi and Iniesta. Look when liverpool beat barca at the nou camp. Sissoko dominated Xavi and Iniesta and as a consequence, Messi hardly saw any ball.

He has a buy out clause of £250m. Any takers?

 

[Vladamir]

Man City?

 

[soze]

Club appeals Thomas Vermaelen red card | News Archive | News | Arsenal.com

Not sure i would have done that it could be 2 games now

 

[cHodAX]

Messi could become one of the greatest ever, but the same was said about Ronaldinho. Let's see if he can keep playing on the level he plays on, and avoid injuries. I wonder whether the steriods/hormones will trouble him in a few years.

Spot on.

 

[cHodAX]

Ok boys and gals, time to predict your end of season totals!

BBC SPORT | Football | Premier League | Predictor

 

[Corran]

Only united fans discuss Rooney in the same light as the other two :S Rooney is definitely not very close to the other 2 in terms of ability.

Rooney can not do the job that Messi and Ronaldo do, I dont think anyone here would argue that... but Messi and Ronaldo can not do Rooney's job as well as him nor do they bring the diversity to the pitch that Rooney does.

Messi and Ronaldo a more complete player? No chance.
Messi and Ronaldo are more complete ATTACKERS, but more complete players then Rooney, not even close.

Neither of these players can do the defensive duties that Rooney can do, they just dont have the defensive discipline in order to forgo their attacking game in order to forefil any defensive objectives given to them. They just hope their attacking threat is enough to stop teams pushing too much on their side of the pitch.
Messi is no where near as good as Rooney in terms of playing upfront on his own. To get the best out of Messi he needs to be on the wing, or playing more of a "free role".

In terms of pure skill you will put Messi and Ronaldo ahead of Rooney. But because of what Rooney can do in the position he players you can not deny he is more then worth to be put up against these 2 players for the World player of the year, and you can not say he wouldnt be a worthy winner of it given his performances.. which are not just about the goals he scored but also what he offers to the rest of the team.

...
Maybe im different to most, especially those that love spanish football, in which I have a large amount of respect to the defensive side of the game, an area with which most people seem to forget about completely and just think it all about skills and goals. Sure without defenders we would have basketball scores, but it would make the game of football a complete mockery.
As such, just because Messi and Ronaldo are so great going forward it will never take away the fact they are very lax in the defensive side of the game (especially Ronaldo)

 

[cHodAX]

Here is mine...