The 1.81b TOA poll! :)

[Phoebee-v-]

Voted yes.

Simpley cause it will help new player to get started.

 

[Darzil]

I worry about the loss of PvE challenge.

I don't worry about losing the camping of artifacts.

However, as I've struggled to find 7 people across 2 servers who want to take on the PvE challenges of the higher end (non Darkspire - ie those with good PvE drops, that don't affect RvR) instances and named monsters in Catacombs (making raids that don't clash with large raids), I'm not sure there is a huge group of players who are after PvE challenges.

The main impact of these changes, I hope, will be a reduction in greed, and thus a better game atmosphere. If it manages that, I'll be happy.

I'm desperately hoping that there will be a lot more changes coming, though, in particular ones that slow RvR combat a little, make RvR more interesting, and make all character classes bring something to any group.

If you want to know where I'm coming from - I have 5 50's (and 3 4x's), 2 (3 in a week or two) LGM crafters, 4 ML10, 7 activated artifacts (one at level 10), 4 unactivated, and none higher than RR2, after nearly 3 years playing. I enjoy PvE, siege RvR (rather than 8v8 - it's a bit intense for me - I enjoyed one night of it, but wouldn't want it every day - and can't get in the groups anyway) and helping others. I'm not nearly as focussed as many are on getting totally TOA'd characters, I prefer to build decent templates around what I have, not what I'd like, to prevent madness! I like 2-3 hours raids, leading and following, but not every day, and whilst I can cope with raids that drag out longer, I don't plan to attend them. I'm the sort of player who logs in RvR if I go 1-2 hours without realm points, unless it's fun, and for whom 1k rp in an evening is good going. My 'buffbot' is used to group with the guild lowbies as a played cleric, and won't be a real buffbot til they hit 50 too !

Darzil

 

[Danamyr]

BG sizes and credit for artis is always limited as a lot of people won't turn up if there is no chance for rolling.

Now all you need is to create a 20, 50, 100, 200 person BG, run around the zones so everyone gets credit - done; everyone now has Jacinas, Erinys, GoV, Tarts etc etc. You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

With the greatest of respect Rod, who cares about fun per se? The zerg could still be enjoyable, but if it meant all could have the very best artifacts then I think that is a great situation TBH

 

[Phantomby]

I think its a great patch, removing the disparity between those who have more time to sink into the game to get the best items and those who dont can only bring the playing field onto a more even keel.

You see most of the challenges are at the moment made easy because of time invested. You need a hard arti, then fine use your ml9 pet and farm the mob, however those with less time dont have access to an ml9 pet, they are less "connected" within their realm because they dont play 24/7 so find it harder to get groups of people together to accomplish a set goal.

shorter ml times, access to artis etc will provide some more players with more insentive to carry on rather than thinking "how the hell am i ever going to get that?". I agree that some challenges need to remain for people who enjoy pve, but they should have a very minimal impact upon rvr.

As for challenges, as someone said, you want a challenge then do it with the minimum amount of people, if not group gank it and everyone is rewarded.

i look forward to some more rvr changes so you dont have to do fg v fg challenge (as once again the less connected casual gamers miss out as they use low rr pick up groups and get farmed by the experienced twinked uber groups.) Im not saying make everyone the same, but level the playing field a little so its fun to compete instead of getting rolled and more people will stay and the game will continue.

(PS: no whinge or flame intended or aimed at anyone, but large guilds or groups of friends have everything they need at their beck and call, but some people out there dont).

 

[Isunder]

I think it's pretty obvious that DAoC is a dying game, purely based on declining numbers playing. And that it can probably be said that a large chunk of the population hit occurred a short while after ToA was introduced, with a gradual decline ever since. I myself have left and come back to DAoC twice (once for SWG - go figure, and once for WoW), the reason I've come back has been because of the pvp not the pve, and I would imagine that even though there is a dedicated pve player base, the vast majority of players would much rather pvp.

For myself ToA has had it's moments (first couple of weeks after release mainly) and when a pve achievement is met in ToA it is a reason to celebrate, but the thought of doing ML's and arties on multiple characters just isn't very enticing - really I can only think of it as a chore. Keeping artifacts and encounters "special" doesn't do it for me, they were special the first time but tedious after that, after all it's just doing the same thing again, eat your favourite food all the time long enough and often enough you probably will get sick of it.

I think(hope) this patch will extend the life of the game, ToA'ing alts will not be so bad - sick of playing the infiltrator? play the wizard - but he has no brittles or spell range he'll be cannon fodder!. And maybe people who have left for WoW or another game or just stopped playing will decide to come back because leveling another character and getting them competitive isn't as bad or tedious or difficult as it once was.

 

[Gibbo]

It was fun when I did it all on my first character.

But now I am on the 4th it is getting tedious and ToA is just getting in the way.

And I also have a 5th to do as well.

ToA represents no challenge at the moment anyway. You want Mad Scalars, ok get yourself a Necro+bb and you have it done. Whats the challenge in that? Oh yeah, the standing around waiting hours and hours for the bloody thing to pop, that is very challenging. There is no challenge, no special tactics, just crap game design getting in the way. They should have left the ML's alone though.

The new artifact levelling system will be great.

I can see a few groups of people being annoyed though

1. The farmers in the game with their necro+bb doing all the artifacts and then selling them for high prices to the no so lucky people

2. The so called elite of the game who have everything anyway.

3. PoC Campers

 

[Zede]

Although I like the changes,I hope mythic do not "dumb down" DaoC anymore as part of some future plan, as per the current Sony/SW:G fiasco.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

What I think the game needs, for the dedicated PvE players (I'm staying away from the use of hardcore because its often used as a derogatory term and I don't think thats a fair and accurate way to describe players like yourself Eggy) is some challenging content that doesn't provide item or ability rewards that exceed that which is currently available in the game. So the impetus of doing the content is for the challenge and sense of achievement, plus the chance to acquire items which are different but not RvR "must haves." Maybe more trophies for houses or possibly even unique housing structures, that can be made from monster remains. Giant turtle shell house for the win!

You could have another set of zones, similar in number to ToA or SI, which contains a mix of PvE content, presenting different challenges for single man, groups and raids. Some more Dragons would be nice, as would some Giants.

Content that isn't just there to be zerged, but can be taken down by smaller teams of players who can defeat the target by "thinking outside the box" so to speak.

The game clearly needs to have more PvE focused content, that doesn't offer an end reward that impacts on RvR. So the content is there purely for those who want a challenge and doesn't become an obligation for everyone playing the game.

THE perfect idea!! catch that rep

 

[Gear]

ToA has been around for over 1.5 year in europe. Most of the players (ok, obviously not the new ones) have done every encounter again and again and again.

I want to play more characters, I want to be able to toa them and tbh toa-ing someone is definitelly not fun at all (specially after having done it 2-3 times previously).

So this change is more than welcome really.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

Well now u can actually soon play those toons u made 2 years ago in SI wich u couldnt be arsed to ML or get toa items for.

Imo IF YOU HAVE ONE ML10 CHAR ON R ACC, ALL SHOULD GET ML10 AUTOMATICALLY! - Seriously the fucking ml quests are boring, reptative and just a time sink nothing else, i done ml1-10 2 times and iam sure as hell never gonna do them again yet i have 8 lvl 50 chars id like to be able to play.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Although I like the changes,I hope mythic do not "dumb down" DaoC anymore as part of some future plan, as per the current Sony/SW:G fiasco.

But, but.... I love the new Jedi Knight game....

/sarcasm off

Me -> <--SOE+LA

 

[rampant]

looks like they are making DAOC easymode....with TOA now being easy to get - the only differenciator will be champion levels - but they too are easy mode...

I enjoy the challenge of getting my chars levelled, getting them ML'd and getting them Arti'd - would i change it no - the only change i would make is to make respawn times a lot quicker.

my guess is that the next thing will be 8v8 arena's - called de_dust or summat like it....

 

[Light]

about bloody time

arti camping - scroll farming - exping was the killer for most that left

 

[Svartmetall]

Imo IF YOU HAVE ONE ML10 CHAR ON R ACC, ALL SHOULD GET ML10 AUTOMATICALLY!

Rofl yes, and when one of your characters gets to level 50, they should all insta ding 50, right? When one of your artis dings level 10, should they all ding level 10 immediately? I know, why don't we get rid of all the game content and just give you /lvl 50, insta ML10 and insta lvl 10 artis? Wouldn't that be FUN AND REWARDING? And instead of all those pesky realms and dungeons and stuff, we'll just have a big PvP zergbowl called "The Land Of Pwn" where all those freshly-minted characters can run around instanganking 24/7! Wow, what a fun and immersive game!

Seriously the fucking ml quests are boring, reptative and just a time sink nothing else

Your opinion, nothing more. Lots of people think a lot of the things and places in the MLs are very cool indeed. If you didn't go 'wow!' the first time you saw Phoenix's area...then I don't know what to say to you, except that maybe CS is more the kind of game you need, since you don't seem to be getting what MMORPGs are all about.
<FPS Doug>
BOOM! HEADSHOT!
</FPS Doug>

iam sure as hell never gonna do them again yet i have 8 lvl 50 chars id like to be able to play.

You can't play characters without MLs? Wow, I must have missed the memo.

 

[Javai]

You can't play characters without MLs? Wow, I must have missed the memo.

This is exactly the player group that this patch panders to (not Svart but the person he is replying to!) - those who have to have their character fully tweaked before they set foot in the frontiers. RvR can be fun without being 50, without a single ML and without a single artifact. But it requires a mind set that isn't focussed on opted fg vs fg rvr.

My Cabalist will ding rr4 tonight - she isn't 50 yet, doesn't have any +spell range or +damage, and dinged ML2 yesterday - but I've had loads of fun playing her. Sure she can't compete vs fully ToA'd chars but neither could she compete vs a rr8 char even if they had the same artifacts and MLs. The class imbalances and rr advantages far outweigh other issues in this game if what you want is a level playing field but to fix that would require Mythic to admit that some classes are completely over powered and have been since day 1 (so note: this does not refer directly to Bainshee and WL but they have simply pushed the balance even further).

While (as I have said in the earlier threads) I support fully the change to how artifacts are received this is a persistent dumbing down of the game, which spoils the atmosphere of the game in many respects. Obviously from the poll results I am in the minority (at least among FH posters which are likely to represent a biased sample of the population as those who are more rvr focussed tend to be more active on forums than others).

 

[xxManiacxx]

Rofl yes, and when one of your characters gets to level 50, they should all insta ding 50, right? When one of your artis dings level 10, should they all ding level 10 immediately? I know, why don't we get rid of all the game content and just give you /lvl 50, insta ML10 and insta lvl 10 artis? Wouldn't that be FUN AND REWARDING? And instead of all those pesky realms and dungeons and stuff, we'll just have a big PvP zergbowl called "The Land Of Pwn" where all those freshly-minted characters can run around instanganking 24/7! Wow, what a fun and immersive game!

Guild Wars?

 

[Thorwyn]

While I generally agree that the game requires a challenge and something to work for, I still think that this patch is partially a good thing for a number of reasons. Lets break it up a little bit.

Masterlevels
The incdreasing number of ML10 people means, that there are fewer and fewer raids because everybody should have all his chars at the desired ML by now. If lots of people are required to achieve a certain goal, the game needs to ensure that there´s always enough interest for those required numbers to show up. That´s not the case anymore. Adjusting the difficulty of the goals when the general interest is decreasing is a natural balancing thing.

Artifacts
Lets face it... artifacts aren´t "special" anymore anyways. Everybody is running around in NF with a SoM and a Malice. Making them easier to get serves a double purpose: a. it´s a blow against all those arti campers, who´re basically cutting off/controlling the supply for certain artis and b. it´s a chance for all the small(er) guilds and unguilded people to get the artis they want. Artifacts are the main reason why many people don´t want to roll/try new classes.
I agree, that a game like DAOC should contain "OMGWTF" items, very rare, powerful, fancy items that everybody wants but few people have. Artis used to be those items, but aren´t anymore. They should be replaced and the availability of the "old" high-end stuff should be adjusted, which is exactly what the patch does.

I´m pretty sure that the PvE content will remain strong in the future. Just ToA has done its job and the focus will shift to new areas. It´s simply being replaced by new challenges... cycling out like Caer Sidi. I doubt that the game is going to become a Counterstrike-equivalent with PvE aspect.

Yes, the economy will change. But is that a bad thing? Everybody with a friend and a BB can farm 90% of his template all by himself, without the need to farm money for ages. I appreciate that, because it means that there is no need to join a large guild in order to successfully play this game. As soon as a game dictates how I have to play it, there´s something wrong.

 

[Heta]

I rolled a cabalist yday when I read the new notes

 

[Lamp]

As soon as a game dictates how I have to play it, there´s something wrong.

Totally agree.

 

[Appendix]

This patch is inevitable. Mythic wants to shift focus towards their latest expansion as they always have. With new game content the old zones get lesser attention.

Mythic also probably realises that the strength of Daoc lies with PvP. There are really no large PvE guilds in Daoc like there is in WoW for instance. Most of the returning players are back thanks to RvR. Daoc may have to evolve towards the clan based PvP of FPS-games like Counterstrike and Battlefield to survive and if so PvE grinding needs to be reduced to a minimum. That would be a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Puki]

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

What an argumentation. My life sucks so everyone elses life has to suck too uke:

 

[Escape]

The words 'challenge' and 'skill' are being misused. Let's take a look at an artifact's lifecycle:

#1 : Complete encounter for credit and artifact.
It's certainly challenging to locate usefull information on the VN Boards. Once you've evaded the whines and blocked the flames, you gain knowledge of tactics which have been employed by the US, for the past 4 months.

A person's skill is determined by his ability to follow a scripted event.


#2 : Scroll Farming
Our hero has braved the inferno of the VN Boards once more, coming away with a gleaming morsel of knowledge. The list of mobs and /locs lead him to another thrilling episode of "Farm till you drop". Will our hero gain his scrolls before falling asleep, dying of hunger or pissing in a bottle? Find out in 24hours.

A person's skill is determined by his ability to follow a scripted event.


#3 : Artifact XP
A freshly activated artifact is only the begining for the next chapter of our hero's life. Once again, he dives into the VN Boards without regard for his sanity. He skillfully dodges the whines and flames and comes away with a list of mobs, camps and most effective group builds. Undettered by boredom, our hero accepts the challenge to spend the next 30hours of his life grinding away at his keyboard.

A person's skill is determined by his ability to follow a scripted event.


Additional Whine

Mythic has a habbit of over-nerfing without truly understanding the issues.
Artifact encounters should have been instanced because the problem was with overcamping and farming artis for plats.

Would anyone suggest camping an artifact for 15hours straight requires skill? It's certainly a challenge, but I'm glad to say I don't possess the skills needed for such a feat.

 

[Rigga Mortice]

Am I being cynical if I believe Mythic are doing this to entice previously cancelled accounts to be re-activated, having seen the comparative success of the non-TOA servers? Possibly

Is it "dooooooooom! dooooooom I tell ye!" for those who like some of the challenges of TOA as they are? Possibly not, for a few reasons:

1) MLs are already currently done with a number of people going /afk on /stick, how will changing the dungeon entry requirements or difficulty alter this? Or do people deplore the current situation aswell?
If people want to retain the challenge of the MLs, what is to stop them from limiting themselves to smaller BGs? I got a tell from someone last night saying they were off to 4-man Typhon for drops, and I was suitably impressed. The challenge is would still be there to find.

2) Artifact encounters: If I had to balance up the loss of achievement from doing an encounter with a small group against the frustration of roaming the spawn sites finding very few things up (I've rarely camped a spawn, there are better things to spend my time on, but I imagine camping to be equally frustrating), I'd take the loss of acheivement such that it was everytime. And like the ML situation above, I could still choose 7 other people and no more to try and do Bruiser etc when I wanted to.

3) So artifact economy would disappear and 'worse' case scenario, everyone would have GoV/EC/CS etc. Were things so bad and damned just before TOA when everyone had SCed armour?
We have 15/16 (18 if you include back and ranged slot) slots of items to fill, even the most arti-loved-up people rarely have more than 8 arti's in one 'balanced' template (/em waits for someone to shout how he/she has 10 and still caps everything ). That still leaves plenty of slots to fill with Darkspire stuff/Zahurs/Immolated and seperate the dedicated players from the casual players in their quested jewellry, only the chasm has been narrowed somewhat. Some might say it harks back to the days of SI when some would do regular Sidi runs for the better loot(or Galladoria etc), and some wouldn't. The gap was there, just not as huge a one.


As far as I can see from the patch notes, all Mythic have done is given players a greater choice.

Oh and I've taken a couple of hours to write this as I should be working, so if Im repeating anyone, nerf

 

[Shanaia]

Voted no... TOA made easier is a good idea but they went WAY overboard ...

 

[Sendraks]

Is it "dooooooooom! dooooooom I tell ye!"

I'm gonna sing the Doom song!

"Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom
DOOM Doom Doom
Doom Doom Doom Doom Doom
Doom
Doom
Doom Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom Doom
Doom
DOOM Doom DOOM Doom
Doom Doom
DOOM Doom DOOM Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom DOOM Doom DOOM Doom
Doom Doom Doom Doom
Doom Doom Doom Doom
Dooooooooom
Doom Doom......."

 

[rampant]

this is a persistent dumbing down of the game

well said (and i hope i didnt take u out of context )

 

[Libertine]

I love the patch, DAOC PvE requires very very little skill and hardly any encounters are fun at all. You just need the correct classes and thats it, most are a walk in the park.

While doing artifacts was "ok" the first time, the second, third times etc were horrendously boring, same with master levels and artifact xp. First time around, ok it has to be done, not too bad, but after that its just mind-destroyingly boring. Some artfact timers such as Cloudsong were stupid and scroll prices were insane, LS3o3 = 30-40p.

If they made PvE challenging and mobs have unique AI and skills then yes it would be more interesting but unfortunately its not, most mobs in DAOC are just straight forward zerg 4tehwin mobs. You look at WoW PvE and its ultimately more interesting, you need strategies to beat certain mobs, unlike DAOC, "ok guys shroom up on my shroom, once maxxed ill pull and loot".

For DAOC PvE to become better they need to remove the to-hit code and make those high level mobs have more HP and more abilities, then people might be more interested in doing things PvE related.

What they need to do is open 1-2 Epic dungeons in each realm with this patch, instanced ones with a player limit with mobs with good AI, make the drops very good much like the old SI epic dungeon ones were at the time. This gives those who enjoy PvE a challenge while not adding to the time-sink of PvE before you can RvR.

But as it stands that patch is making me want to re-open my accounts, something i havent wanted to do for months.

 

[eggy]

I'm currently 1.54% off my initial estimate, no wonder I'm an analyst eh

Most are very valid points indeed - the fact that you may be doing your 5th TOA char means you'd like things fast and quick; however, maybe you're after new artis you've never done before! Doing my inf; I obtained artis I had never quested for before; was great fun!

I fully understand everyone's reasoning about why this patch is "good" - I'm very democratic, and believe everyone's opinion is valid for their attitude towards the game.

It's just a shame there's not a happy medium!

 

[Libertine]

With limited time I can spend in game, and most of the decent ML raids happening at weekends when heaven forbid I spend time with my kids and girlfriend, making them easier means they are also faster, and can be done better during other times.

My point exactly, most ML rushes on the weekends, i travel and spend time with my Gf at the weekends, these changes help those with RL commitments a great deal.

 

[inqy]

toa is still a piece of shit. so anything to make it better (I wouldn't say easier), is a good move.