The 1.81b TOA poll! :)

[eggy]

Firstly, this isn't a whine, but a set of facts about the new patch. I created this thread with a poll, simply to confirm my own estimates of the results. This isn’t to prove a point to Mythic, GOA, FH or anyone but myself!

The poll is a simple question to get black and white results. I predict 85% of FH readers will vote Yes.

The result of 1.81b means that TOA will be easy.

*There will be very little challenge in the obtaining of artifacts, meaning they are no longer 'special' in any way. This particularly applies to artifacts that require more strategy and planning to obtain; Erinys, Bruiser, Flamedancer Boots etc. No skill or knowledge of TOA is now required to get every single artifact in the game.
*Artis now xp everywhere, and the xp required is less. No challenge or skill is now required in optimising group setups to xp effectively in defined zones.
*ML items can be purchased. Certain stages will now be farmed, ie Talos. This means there is less cooperative BG effort required to complete MLs.
*Some ML steps have been decreased in difficulty, meaning those MLs that require tactics no longer do.
*Economy will shift to dropped items – immolated rings etc.
*The list goes on...

To solely RVR-minded players, I'm sure this is great. Now PVE is easy-mode for everyone, the majority is rejoicing - yay no more TOA difficulty!

To those who enjoy both RVR and PVE, or those who just enjoy PVE, it's a bad patch. The "buzz" you might get from obtaining something you never thought you would has now gone. Everything is available to everyone. The challenge has gone. I understand some don’t see it as a “challenge” but as a “chore”. I feel a large % of the community play DAOC like they’d play Counter-Strike – it’s a roleplaying game for non-roleplayers indeed!

Personally, I don't like the patch. I enjoy the challenge PVE brings (The more interesting the PVE journey, the more rewarding RVRing that char is, imo). And yes, I have 8million+ rps on my account, so the "you're just a PVEr" doesn't really count

However, the game develops and evolves - so must we all!

Cheers

 

[Zebolt]

To solely RVR-minded players, I'm sure this is great. Now PVE is easy-mode for everyone, the majority is rejoicing - yay no more TOA difficulty!

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

 

[Aadia]

Hmmm tough one... as it's got good and bad stuff in there.
I went for a no though purely for the fact alot of TOA charm will vanish (and yes it's a pain in the ass sometimes but that's what "makes" toa).

 

[Sendraks]

I understand some don’t see it as a “challenge” but as a “chore”.

This is a fair comment. A lot of the artifact/ML encounters are not especially difficult, nor require any special skill to complete. However, thanks to variability in drop rates, farmers and respawn times, these encounters are little more than a chore.

I feel a large % of the community play DAOC like they’d play Counter-Strike – it’s a roleplaying game for non-roleplayers indeed!

I feel that some members of the DAoC community are under the misapprehension that the PvE content is rather more challenging than it is. This said, while I agree with the changes to the way artifacts are obtained and the respawn times, I don't think the encounters needed to be made any easier, just the frustration element removed.

Personally, I don't like the patch. I enjoy the challenge PVE brings (The more interesting the PVE journey, the more rewarding RVRing that char is, imo).

I think the patch is a great addition in terms of removing the frustration for players like myself, who don't play DAoC that often. But I now know that if I sit down and do devote some time to the game, I can actually get something done. So artifacts and MLs are no longer the dominion of the very dedicated players.

There is now actually some impetus, with all the changes to date, for me to ML more than the two characters I have already got MLs on (thanks to your well run raids Eggy). Otherwise I couldn't be bothered. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do MLs or Artifacts as they were when TOA was originally launched. Now if I do bother to put the time in, I will get some measure of achievement, but it will still take me some time. Of course if I don't put the effort it, I will get nothing. Which is the way it should be. There shouldn't be a "givf artis and MLs" button in the game, but by that rational, it shouldn't take for bloody ever to do, just for the sake of keeping the dedicated players entertained.

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

Your decision to do it the hard way, no one made you do it and I hope you got your fun out of it. Now all the people who couldn't be bothered, for whatever reasons good or bad, get to do it the easy way and everyone is happy.

You have your sense of achievement and they'll have their's.

Computer games shouldn't be hard work. I get paid for hard work. I pay for computer games to have fun.

 

[eggy]

Yeh I agree with all comments so far!

I think as said above, it should be a challenge but no "i win" easy PVE buttons, which there are.

They seem to have gone all the way instead of making more subtle changes for less "hardcore" players or PVErs.

 

[eggy]

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

Trying to work out if that was an attack on me or if you meant "you've" in the more generic sense.

This isn't about competition, or any TOA "ego". It's about removing that which I enjoy - helping others to get artifacts, the joy someone gets when they activate something they thought they would never get!

Post 1.81b, there will be a "just go join a BG" to get an artifact. No challenge, no enjoyment

 

[Equador]

While I believe that some changes are indeed not necessary ( master level requirement changes to enter a certain dungeon for instance ) I do believe that all the new artifact-changes are for the better. I am not jealous if someone else can do things more easier, I mean - good for them. Why make others suffer? You know how bad it was - why do it to others? I just wish they'd change the artifact encounters, so they'll require some work instead of a fop-bot and a servant necro for example.

 

[Kami]

TOA is a huge problem for anyone starting out in the game as they're automatically not only 50 levels behind anyone else but also have the timesink of TOA to get through. I think Mythic are purely trying to get the focus back on fun and less on grind, just as they did with XPing.

I do think that some things should be a challenge but these changes could end up creating artifact XP groups which can include 40+ chars who are just leveling up. I also think it'll reduce the amount of aggro that TOA creates over items. Unlike a lot of people I actually want to see encounters etc farmed, it opens up the items for those who otherwise wouldn't ever have a chance of getting them.

Worryingly though this does take DAOC back a few years for some of the PVE players like myself. I don't like RvRing all night and with this there will be less for me to do as less people will need help with encounters and people will have far easier time getting artifacts.

Just hope they add something else in to compensate, perhaps revisit the SI zones and redo all the mobs there?

 

[Eleasias]

*Artis now xp everywhere, and the xp required is less. No challenge or skill is now required in optimising group setups to xp effectively in defined zones.

Are you serious?

 

[anioal]

*There will be very little challenge in the obtaining of artifacts, meaning they are no longer 'special' in any way. This particularly applies to artifacts that require more strategy and planning to obtain; Erinys, Bruiser, Flamedancer Boots etc. No skill or knowledge of TOA is now required to get every single artifact in the game.

i remind u that only the artifact drops were removed, arti encounters remain untouched.
that means u still need an uber group to get EC credit by tactics or a zerg to get it by force. that also means i will no longer pay 50plats for EC when i will toa my next caster.

note: Can't stop myself to note that only the very leet complains about it... no more gimps with crap templates out there, right? no more wasting 20 hours of farming to xp cloudsong to lvl10, right?

Still there are plenty of pve content that remain untouched like classic/si/catacombs/DR encouters for the fans of "ganking the boss mob with tactic"

 

[eggy]

Yes but the difficulty for "new players" is part of the game! That's the challenge!

I don't understand why people want things so easy all the time. And it’s not a “jealousy” thing, as was suggested above. It’s the fact that removing any remaining challenge and skill from the PVE side of the game is detrimental to those who play for PVE or PVE/RVR.

 

[Sendraks]

They seem to have gone all the way instead of making more subtle changes for less "hardcore" players or PVErs.

What I think the game needs, for the dedicated PvE players (I'm staying away from the use of hardcore because its often used as a derogatory term and I don't think thats a fair and accurate way to describe players like yourself Eggy) is some challenging content that doesn't provide item or ability rewards that exceed that which is currently available in the game. So the impetus of doing the content is for the challenge and sense of achievement, plus the chance to acquire items which are different but not RvR "must haves." Maybe more trophies for houses or possibly even unique housing structures, that can be made from monster remains. Giant turtle shell house for the win!

You could have another set of zones, similar in number to ToA or SI, which contains a mix of PvE content, presenting different challenges for single man, groups and raids. Some more Dragons would be nice, as would some Giants.

Content that isn't just there to be zerged, but can be taken down by smaller teams of players who can defeat the target by "thinking outside the box" so to speak.

The game clearly needs to have more PvE focused content, that doesn't offer an end reward that impacts on RvR. So the content is there purely for those who want a challenge and doesn't become an obligation for everyone playing the game.

 

[eggy]

i remind u that only the artifact drops were removed, arti encounters remain untouched.
that means u still need an uber group to get EC credit by tactics or a zerg to get it by force. that also means i will no longer pay 50plats for EC when i will toa my next caster.

BG sizes and credit for artis is always limited as a lot of people won't turn up if there is no chance for rolling.

Now all you need is to create a 20, 50, 100, 200 person BG, run around the zones so everyone gets credit - done; everyone now has Jacinas, Erinys, GoV, Tarts etc etc. You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

 

[Bubble]

Fully agree with you Eggy

Wish i put it as well as you

 

[Killder]

If these changes bring new people into the game or get old people to resub then I consider them a success.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Im with Sendraks on this, I have to say I am sick of the 5-6 hour ML raids, having to buy my artis from focus groups, waiting to get enough people together to help me get an arti and not getting it in the lotto etc etc.

With limited time I can spend in game, and most of the decent ML raids happening at weekends when heaven forbid I spend time with my kids and girlfriend, making them easier means they are also faster, and can be done better during other times.

The leveling thing is the only thing I dont agree with, as it just means we all get our new artis, head to moderna / fins / AC and PL them for 3 hours till level 10, like you say Eggy, hardly a challenge. I prefer the zone idea, and hated the "you must kill this 1 mob type" and glad they scrapped it. At least as leveling is now its variety and not geared to those who cba to PvE more than 5 minutes.

As for the dungeon entrance thing, I cant see a problem here, I was mighty cheesed off when it took me a good 8 months before I got to see the ML10 arena, due to the fact I never had time for the raids. Why should areas like Aerus City be restricted, its as bad as not owning TOA and seeing all your m8s go hunting when you cant.

Making artis level faster is only a good thing, firstly they are a pain, but hopefully also, they wont degrade as much, 1p for certain ones to be repaired just for getting them to level 10 sucks, I know some are saying "1p aint much these days" but to casuals, yes it is, and taken for 4-8 artis per TOAd toon, it soon adds up. I would love to see this arti repair cost thing redone at sensible prices, but thats another story.

In general, yes, i think this is a good patch so far....

 

[Sendraks]

You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

There are probably people who do artis and MLs like that now, so they'd still do it no matter what the changes are. I doubt it will encourage many more to do the same, so I don't see that as a valid argument for saying these changes are a bad idea.

Sure people could zerg the arties like you suggested and I'm sure that probably will happen, but that will probably be a fun zerg to be in on the day it happens. Everyone walks away a winner.

I'd rather have that than not being able to get arti credit at all, because the damn thing is down or camped and the campers won't let you get credit.

Overall, I think it will improve the attitude of the community. The less each realm fights amongst itself for items, the more time can be spent fighting together?

With limited time I can spend in game, and most of the decent ML raids happening at weekends when heaven forbid I spend time with my kids and girlfriend, making them easier means they are also faster, and can be done better during other times.

My sentiments entirely. Weekends are the worst time for me to do gaming and I miss out on a lot of big events (in any MMO for that matter), because I spend time with my partner and friends. If MLs and artis can now be tackled easier and faster, these are objectives I can reasonably fulfill on weeknights.

The leveling thing is the only thing I dont agree with, as it just means we all get our new artis, head to moderna / fins / AC and PL them for 3 hours till level 10, like you say Eggy, hardly a challenge. I prefer the zone idea, and hated the "you must kill this 1 mob type" and glad they scrapped it. At least as leveling is now its variety and not geared to those who cba to PvE more than 5 minutes.

I also agree. Making them level faster, yes thats fine, but anywhere, no. I'd prefer it if they stuck with the levelling in specific zones and the specific mobs that the artis originally levelled on as well. So if your target mob happened to be in the same zone as xp, you got a bonus. But levelling up just anywhere is kind of lame.

no one forces anyone to get arti credit by afk-ing in a 200man bg. u can do it the hard way and have fun in it.

Well said. The challenge is whatever you make it to be. If you obtain all your artis in an 8man or less group all armed with bronze weapons, then I take my hat off to you. Well done. Just because others can do the same thing so much easier with 200men and the 35th tank battalion, doesn't detract from the achievement of those who try to do things the hard way.

 

[xxManiacxx]

I belive the patch is great BUT! I also belive they should leave mobs like levi and kraken alone and also add new epic mobs for the PvE ppl.

 

[anioal]

BG sizes and credit for artis is always limited as a lot of people won't turn up if there is no chance for rolling.

Now all you need is to create a 20, 50, 100, 200 person BG, run around the zones so everyone gets credit - done; everyone now has Jacinas, Erinys, GoV, Tarts etc etc. You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

no one forces anyone to get arti credit by afk-ing in a 200man bg. u can do it the hard way and have fun in it.

i remember mythic saying that toa will have no impact in rvr, right? now they finnaly admited that toa has a very big inpact in rvr and allows event the 8hours per week players to toa their toons

 

[Necroscope]

Post 1.81b, there will be a "just go join a BG" to get an artifact. No challenge, no enjoyment

I cant say I really see the enjoyment over the fact that you need to camp arti's 24/7 to get an artifact.

The problem today that it aint hard to do the encounter its self. There are exceptions ofc. The problem is that artifacts especielly popular ones are camped around the clock.

 

[Danamyr]

This patch will remove the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' - it's definately a good thing IMHO.

Quite what this will do to the economy though remains to be seen.

Not everyone has the same level of skill, or the same resources at their disposal. For people that can play only infrequently and generally solo I think this will allow them to compete again at best and at least finish their templates in a timely manner at worst.

Thumbs up from me

 

[Lamp]

Post 1.81b, there will be a "just go join a BG" to get an artifact. No challenge, no enjoyment

I don't wholly agree. People will still continue to enjoy some or all aspects of the game. This is your personal opinion and is NOT shared by everyone. Please realise that not everyone who plays has 30 level 50 characters all ML10 and all RR10 all with 350plat templates and who are self professed ego-centric experts in every facet of the game whose word is law and wobetide anyone who crosses them or voices a contrary opinion.

Some of us are just nice quiet folk who play casually and just go with the flow and will enjoy it just cos its something to unwind to after a shitty day at work.

 

[eggy]

This is your personal opinion and is NOT shared by everyone.

Read the initial post and you'll realise I know this.

Please realise that not everyone who plays has 30 level 50 characters all ML10 and all RR10 all with 350plat templates

I doubt anyone does.

and who are self professed ego-centric experts in every facet of the game whose word is law and wobetide anyone who crosses them or voices a contrary opinion.

I want people to express opinions, hence why I agree all points so far are truly valid. Hence also why this isn't a whine thread (as stated in initial thread), but more a vote to confirm my belief that 85% of the FH population will like the patch.

 

[Eleasias]

Post 1.81b, there will be a "just go join a BG" to get an artifact. No challenge, no enjoyment

Yes I was feeling the challenge of staying awake and the enjoyment of camping GoV at 5 am today with no luck.

 

[Eeben]

Voted no because artis should be something speciel an tbh should been made harder because they are really to easy now if you just take the time to get them but for the casul player who dont play so much as me i can c that this is a great patch an maybe more ppl will start again .. An toa is really not that boring if you just run around with some friends an talk.. The ml thing is great because that is just a pain anyway..Havent lead any real ml raid but from what i seen they dont take much skills now anyway its just zerging...

 

[anioal]

BG sizes and credit for artis is always limited as a lot of people won't turn up if there is no chance for rolling.

Now all you need is to create a 20, 50, 100, 200 person BG, run around the zones so everyone gets credit - done; everyone now has Jacinas, Erinys, GoV, Tarts etc etc. You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

No one forces anyone to join a 200 man bg and get the credit by afk, u can still make the optimum group and get credit and find the fun by doing so.

I remember mythic saying about TOA that will have no impact (or very little impact) in rvr. Now they admit that toa is a must for rvr and lessen the requirements so even the casual that plays 6-10 hours per week can toa his toons in 1.81

 

[Eeben]

Yes I was feeling the challenge of staying awake and the enjoyment of camping GoV at 5 am today with no luck.

why camp it its up almost the same times every day

 

[eggy]

Just a reminder - this is a poll and discussion, not a flame thread or a "OMG YOU ENJOY TOA YOU MUST BURN" thread.

Carry on the discussion; giving your personal opinion

 

[Sendraks]

Voted no because artis should be something speciel

But as artis are seen as being "must-haves" for RvR, they are hardly special anyway. They won't be any more special if things remain as they are, it'll just be a case that only the dedicated players have access to them. Which isn't special, just frustrating.

If artifacts were to be really special, then GoA should've just limited the number of each arti that could drop on each server. That would make the items special.

The downside to that of course, is that within a few months of ToA going live, all the artis would be gone and not necessarily gone to people who would use them either. I'm sure some folk would've claimed artifacts just to make sure no one else could use them.

but for the casul player who dont play so much as me i can c that this is a great patch an maybe more ppl will start again ..

Well said. I'm not sure that everyone will agree that more people playing DAoC is a good thing, but if it keeps the game going all well and good imo.

Also, I think some of the responses here to what Eggy has written are more than a little unfair and off base. Eggy has put forward valid opinions in a fair and non-abusive fashion. It would be nice if people could extend him the same courtesy when responding.

 

[Yeke]

Think the change's are good for the most part for instance cloudsong spawns so infrequently since coming back to daoc 3 months ago I've seen erami once, the second its up its insta farmed.

Having said that maybe the combination of all the changes will make things a little too easy but being as toa'ing toons is atm a nightmare (I have 6 level 50 char's only one of which is toa'd because I just cba with it) I think most will welcome the change.