The 1.81b TOA poll! :)

[GReaper]

Take a look at each change individually.

Artifact encounters: The change for credit only is excellent, it should've been like this on release. I don't mind a marketplace for buying/selling items, but stopping people from getting artifacts which they can kill themselves in the firstplace has always been very annoying.

Artifact exp: Nice little change. This will help spread out people wanting exp, players may join groups in Darkness Falls etc. You mention that its a challenge and skill to get a group to level your artifacts. Was it a fun challenge trying to exp an artifact before the PoC change? Getting the artifact is a challenge, levelling it up is merely a timesink.

Purchase ML items: Excellent idea. Gold goes out of the economy to the merchants for the convenience of an item to do a ML. A few extra items may be gained, but there won't be much extra gold going into the economy.

Reduced difficulty: Every time they increase the difficulty of an encounter it just annoys people. With a reduced playerbase the encounters are getting more difficult to do.


If your main interest is in new challenging PvE encounters on a regular basis, I'd recommend a different game. I'd seriously doubt you'd get any more new challenges. The majority of the playerbase has been fighting against ToA for a long time, both Catacombs and Darkness Rising add small challenges, but no battlegroup challenges. Don't expect Mythic to do anything against your predicted 85% of the playerbase.

 

[eggy]

Don't expect Mythic to do anything against your predicted 85% of the playerbase.

Read post 1.

This isn’t to prove a point to Mythic, GOA, FH or anyone but myself!

This is NOT a petition, merely an out-of-interest poll. Evolution is a natural part of being human - I'm not whining merely interested in % for and against.

 

[GReaper]

Personally, I don't like the patch. I enjoy the challenge PVE brings

I'm stating the fact that I seriously don't see any real challenges being offered in any patches or expansions, which is something you enjoy.

 

[elbeek]

Voted no. IMO time and effort should be rewarded.

 

[Haggus]

No it sucks, cuz' you've allready had the pain of doing all the boring things and now everyone else can get it shit easy :x

agree totally

 

[Flimgoblin]

most of the changes I'm all for - some of it (e.g. making certain encounters easier) is a bit "meh"...

The best bit by far though is the removing the farmers/campers from the artifacts by making it "just credit"

Artis levelling everywhere means you can actually go to the crazy places (like krondon or sidi) and people get arti xp so there's some forward progress for all. Don't have to go to PoC (which isn't that interesting a dungeon really, the summoners hall is fun but poc is "meh" apart from the named)

nerfing the hard encounters = bleh, keep some challenge in there. Need to see what they've done to kraken and leviathan (hopefully they still require some strategy but don't do things like FZ someone 3 zones away and chase after them... *annoying*)

Incidentally I think a lot of the "level 65" stuff might have been along the lines of how kraken and leviathan work (and the new Darkness Rising ones) - lower level so spells land but masses of hp.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. It's hopefully not just a "instant ML10/all artis" - if they wanted that they'd have given us /masterlevel and /artifacts

 

[GReaper]

The only thing I do find annoying is the fact they introduce Classic servers, then a few months later alter ToA so it isn't as bad as it was.

It's nice to see Mythic concentrate on the one true version of DAoC instead of coming up with some daft idea for the next server type.

 

[Sendraks]

IMO time and effort should be rewarded.

I agree with that.

However, as ToA currently stands the amount of time spent is not in proportion to the rewards earned.

In fact, it doesn't even come to time so much as those who have the flexibility in their daily lives to be able to rush to do an arti whenever they are up, do ML raids whenever they are scheduled and the like.

Realistically, if you're lucky, you could do a few of the tough artis in a few minutes, if you just happen to see one up, happen to have the right people with you and happen to win the roll for the arti. Whereas some poor sap could spend weeks or even months, solidly trying to get a single arti, only to find it down or camped, or up but unable to get anyone to help and not get anywhere. Yet when they do eventually get it, they get the same reward as the lucky guy for whom it only took a few minutes.

These changes should actually decrease the disparity between the time and effort some players have to put in, in order to obtain a specific reward.

 

[eggy]

It's hopefully not just a "instant ML10/all artis" - if they wanted that they'd have given us /masterlevel and /artifacts

That's exactly what they've done. Don't get me wrong here; I adapt to all patches and situations, so when it's released, sure I'll run arti raids encompassing every zone and artifact around. I already have several initiatives planned.

But yes, it is basically insta-artifacts. Still need ML raids leading, it's just easier than ever before...eg 8.5; just gotta kill the mob. There goes all the background story and effort that made leading that ML worthwhile.

 

[Pera]

BG sizes and credit for artis is always limited as a lot of people won't turn up if there is no chance for rolling.

Now all you need is to create a 20, 50, 100, 200 person BG, run around the zones so everyone gets credit - done; everyone now has Jacinas, Erinys, GoV, Tarts etc etc. You can even do this AFK and stuck...that's my point; where's the fun in that

ugh this does not make any sense to me. If you don't think there isn't any fun having 100 people BG and get all the artis you need nor any challenge, then don't join a 200 people BG and try to do it with a fg or less. There, there is your so called "challenge" and "fun".

Here is what you don't realize IMO. In every MMORPGs lifecycle there comes a point where the game does not attract new people as it used to be and the dame devs have no choice but to make it attractive to the "existing" playerbase. So that being said, making ToA easier "may" upset a "small" part of the community that "loves" pve BUT it sure as hell going to make the majority "happier". Why you say? Because it is going to allow people who love RvR however can't compete with the existing "hardcore" gamers because they don't have enough "free" time to PvE.

ToA was good fun about 2 years ago when it first came out...it was new, it was interesting, and it was fun. However, the newness of it has been gone for almost a year and a half and the people don't want to put up with that kinda "time sink" anymore. Because it simply draws you away from the ultimate purpose of the game which is "RvR".

What Mythic is doing by making ToA easier is removing a "very" annoying but necessary obstacle on the way to the ultimate goal of the game. It is a little bit too late, but I guess it is always better late than never.

/cheers

 

[Mobius]

I think its a great idea. PvE doesn't really require any skill, just lots of patience and spare time. Alot of people have alts which they never get round to using because its just so time consuming to Toa multiple chars. This way we can get to a place where we its possible to compete in RvR without spending months of post 50 time in PvE.

 

[Gahn]

The less fucking PvE i have to do the more happy i am, so thumbs up and hoping they don't change anything of those patch notes!!

 

[Minimac]

So if u muster a 6 fg zerg for eiryns all will beable to get the arti after they have farmed the scrolls ><

 

[Flimgoblin]

But yes, it is basically insta-artifacts. Still need ML raids leading, it's just easier than ever before...eg 8.5; just gotta kill the mob. There goes all the background story and effort that made leading that ML worthwhile.

meh, yeah I saw that one and thought "oh well don't have to scream at the afk muppet that attacks it any more".

A lot of the encounter dumbing down is a bit crap but I'm still all "yay" at the fact they've killed the arti campers business

Would get to have a shot at Danos now without having to /bg join somenecromancerfarmer and sit and watch - except they've probably nerfed the encounter into stupidly-easy anyway

 

[Azathrim]

eg 8.5; just gotta kill the mob. There goes all the background story and effort that made leading that ML worthwhile.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If you really want the "background" on that encounter, nothing limits you from actually doing the pre-req quest. For the BG, this encounter is actually pretty much easier though. Before you just had to stay near Kratos while the raid leader did the talking. Now you actually have to go out of afk and start hitting Kratos.

As for your attention for Background story, this seems like a guy whining for the sake of whining.

I remember your ML3.1 Moirai bashing: 200 Albs beating Moirai with shield to a bloody pulp.

What happened with your interest for background here? Why not do the encounter as intended instead of just zerging it?

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

What happened with your interest for background here? Why not do the encounter as intended instead of just zerging it?

Pwned!!
here, a rep

[edit] or not:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Azathrim again.

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

This isn't about competition, or any TOA "ego". It's about removing that which I enjoy - helping others to get artifacts, the joy someone gets when they activate something they thought they would never get!

That's the hard part there Eggy , where as you enjoy'd ToA as it is at the moment , personaly i hated it . I have enjoyed getting the arti's i have gotten so far , however it's been a slog for some , not becuase of the Arti encounter itself , but more the people who come and camp it , sell for mental prices and who have the time to put into ToA , becuase of my job and moving country i've had to stop playing for the moment , but now , i hope this patch comes ( it is only in testing after all) i will happily go back to Toa , while the ML's will still be a drain , i do agree that there is a sense of accomplishment upon completing them. But all in all i though ToA was just a bad idea.

Post 1.81b, there will be a "just go join a BG" to get an artifact. No challenge, no enjoyment

I disagree there , The whole enjoyment for myself is getting a arti , and then xp'ing it and watchign the difference it makes to a char once it's lvl 10.
Some arti encounters i enjoy ... while others i dispise so the join the bg for credit is something i look forward to.


I voted yes , Not because i treat Daoc like Counter-strike . But becuase before toa i RvR'd alot more than i currently do.
Ofc i can still rvr now , but i would not be competitive doing so as i'm not toa'd fully ( just need my arti's lvl 10 now).

Where as it used to be .. get 50 , get some drops/armor , get the sc'ing and alchy done, then off you go into the big bad world of RvR and go pwnz0r some n00blingers.


These are my thoughts on the Patch , I didn't mean to have a go at Eggy or anyone else , even if it sounds like it.

 

[Comos]

I agree 100% with your post eggy and since I only level up and toa chars to RvR with them I, myself, simply love this patch.

 

[Serosh]

I talk from my personal experiences here as an ex mid/pryd player that rerolled on alb/pryd when my guild decided to focus more on opted FG RvR and started neglecting those guildies that weren't part of one of the groups they ran. I rolled a reaver as main and had about 25 days /played when I gave up and moved to the US/classic servers. Despite my dislike for pure opting, I do enjoy 8v8 where the basics are covered (healer healer mezzer etc...) and the damagedealers are basically whoever wishes to tag along. I did like 1v1, but I can't duallog on my system so I can't run a buffbot (don't want one on principle anyway, imho every buffbot used in PvE is an incentive for someone not to roll a healerclass while actively played ones are/were required in RvR). Take my comments for what you want.

The result of 1.81b means that TOA will be easy.

*There will be very little challenge in the obtaining of artifacts, meaning they are no longer 'special' in any way. This particularly applies to artifacts that require more strategy and planning to obtain; Erinys, Bruiser, Flamedancer Boots etc. No skill or knowledge of TOA is now required to get every single artifact in the game.

There is already little challenge involved in obtaining most artifacts, just contact your nearest Servant necro/Minstrel/Matter cabalist. I never encountered anyone calling on /as for "getting SoM with a tank group"- to name an example. If you don't know anyone with the "farm-classes" that takes a particular liking to your person, obtaining the majority of the artifacts is a tedious task that has little to do with challenge or dedication and more with the people assisting wanting to get it over with so they can go back to RvR/farming/whatever they were doing or planning to do.

*Artis now xp everywhere, and the xp required is less. No challenge or skill is now required in optimising group setups to xp effectively in defined zones.

IMHO opting is the bane of this game, it sets an atmosphere that you MUST have class x with spec y to be taken seriously. I warmly remember not being welcome on a DV raid because my reaver didn't have MoB3 when I needed my SoM scrolls. So anything that makes opting less desirable is a plus imho.

*ML items can be purchased. Certain stages will now be farmed, ie Talos. This means there is less cooperative BG effort required to complete MLs.

This is however a huge stress-relief of people who want to join a ML raid but due to time constraints can't join the hunt for the items required. Make them expensive, heck make a quest out of it that is soloable for a lvl 50 but for example requires a lot of travelling, but make it something that can be done without relying on people that rather not assist because they already did it at another time.

*Some ML steps have been decreased in difficulty, meaning those MLs that require tactics no longer do.

This, in fact, I agree with, MLs were fine as they were.

*Economy will shift to dropped items – immolated rings etc.

I think this is actually a good development, remember when SI was released? I was still in mid back then and thought it was brilliant, I had very limited play time back then and thus couldn't go on loads of TG raids for the uber drops, BUT with a spellcrafted suit of 99% armour, the TG axe that my guildies donated to me (was the only axe skald anyway ), the SI bracer and resist neckie quests and some decent drops farmed here and there, i could put together a suit that wasn't as good as someone with lots of TG items in his template, but good enough to put up a good fight, between battler /use, malice procs and SoM this is virtually impossible unless I have items with similar abilities.

*The list goes on...

To solely RVR-minded players, I'm sure this is great. Now PVE is easy-mode for everyone, the majority is rejoicing - yay no more TOA difficulty!

To those who enjoy both RVR and PVE, or those who just enjoy PVE, it's a bad patch. The "buzz" you might get from obtaining something you never thought you would has now gone. Everything is available to everyone. The challenge has gone. I understand some don’t see it as a “challenge” but as a “chore”. I feel a large % of the community play DAOC like they’d play Counter-Strike – it’s a roleplaying game for non-roleplayers indeed!

I consider myself a PvE and RvR player, I try to create one character that is "optimised" for RvR, one that can be used for PvE and lots of lowbies to mess around with when I need a breath of fresh air. Thing is, that unless you have a group of close allies that go out of their way to assist you through PvE, you end up in a cycle of camping artifact spawns hours at an end, pleading for asistance to people who often don't have time or simply don't feel like assisting and trying to farm scrolls that have extremely low chances to drop. Now all of this would be fine, if a good part of artifacts weren't deemed "must-haves" these days. PvE should be done because people WANT to do it, and gaining an edge in the process is fine, atm people do PvE because they MUST do it. Basically the difference between "YAY!, I got Malice, this is so cool!" and "FINALLY!, I got Malice, now I can go xp it untill my head falls off and THEN I can compete!"

Personally, I don't like the patch. I enjoy the challenge PVE brings (The more interesting the PVE journey, the more rewarding RVRing that char is, imo). And yes, I have 8million+ rps on my account, so the "you're just a PVEr" doesn't really count

However, the game develops and evolves - so must we all!

Cheers

For me a challenge is an event where at the end of the day, I at least have a sense of progress, something to show I didn't just spend 4 hours engaged in some mindnumbingly boring chore for nothing. While I did have that with ML crawls, 9 out of 10 times I didn't have that with artifact hunting and scrollfarming. So I welcome the artifact encounter tweaks, the ML improvements are not nessecary imho.

I won't vote because as I said, I no longer am active on the euro servers, but I thought I would express how I felt over ToA and how it related to my decision to reroll on US classic.

 

[eggy]

I remember your ML3.1 Moirai bashing: 200 Albs beating Moirai with shield to a bloody pulp.

What happened with your interest for background here? Why not do the encounter as intended instead of just zerging it?

That day was about comedy

So I thought 200 people bashing a mob hitting for 1 (-212) damage each time while wearing bright green hats would provide more amusing footage for Fraps

I just don't like the idea of making an encounter, that works just fine, then making it 10 times easier because of raid leaders who can't do their job; that's all.

Once again, this isn't a whine thread, or a "prove Eggy wrong" thread - it's just to get all the viewpoints.

Tbh almost all of them so far I completely understand and think "fair enough!"

 

[Arkian]

That day was about comedy

So I thought 200 people bashing a mob hitting for 1 (-212) damage each time while wearing bright green hats would provide more amusing footage for Fraps

I just don't like the idea of making an encounter, that works just fine, then making it 10 times easier because of raid leaders who can't do their job; that's all.

Once again, this isn't a whine thread, it's a thread for personal opinion. So let's keep it to that.

I think what people need to put into perspective is that this is currently just a patch note, and that making something easier doesn't have to equate to making it easy. It will be interesting to see how things play out, and I suspect that there will still be plenty of challenge available for those who want to attempt arti/ml encounters with the minimum of people.

And quite right, nobody should be bashing Eggy, if you read his posts in this thread he's perfectly accepting of both views.

 

[Raven]

i enjoyed toa the first time around, its a pain in the arse now though, if you want to play a new alt its a lot of work equiping it. i used to like playing various toons in the SI days, i found i would get bored with one and play something else for a few weeks/months whatever, now i only (used to) play my hero.

maybe rather than doing it this way they should have slashed the respawn timers on arti mobs to 10-20 minutes and remove the exp part totally.

 

[ElemenT]

I like it.

I stopped playing mainly because of the PvE needed for ToA. But on the other hand, I was thinking about renewing in the near future so it won't be around on EU when I actually renew.

 

[Overdriven]

Will make me reativate, hell - so will DR.

 

[chretien]

ToA isn't more than a speedbump to getting ready for RvR, and it's not even the biggest reason why non-RvR characters don't RvR. I have 3 50s and none of them are competitive in RvR. Not because I'm too casual to ToA them (they're all more or less ToAd), but because it's hard for a low RR random to get decent RvR action. Most of my RvR in the last month has been running solo missions with either my Theurgist or my Cleric(!) because it's practically impossible to find a group that will invite a low RR character or won't disband the first time they get rolled by an RR10 gank group. Soloing's not something I enjoy which is why I rolled group friendly characters.

Most of the people I know who don't RvR a lot, would RvR more if they felt they'd be more than just fodder. As it is their experience of RvR is that you go out, you run into a group with six or more realm ranks on you and you get killed without ever having the chance to fight back - even when you are fully ToAd. A few nights of that kind of action and they're back to PvE, levelling another alt. The disparity in power levels between high and low RR characters is more of a disincentive to RvR than not having a perfect template for me and most of the non-RvRers I know.

Getting ToAd isn't hard even for randoms. Sure get rid of camping and scroll farming but getting the MLs and artis you need at the moment isn't that hard, even if you don't have access to a farm character - I don't have one. I consider myself a random. I play a lot but I don't have a second account, I don't have a farm character, I'm not a member of a large or RvR focussed guild, I spend a lot of my ingame time helping my friends and I've still managed to get 3 characters a good spread of artifacts, MLs and other 'must haves'.

All the people who are suggesting that places like Sidi get upgraded to offer PvEers a challenge but 'without dropping uber loot' are either missing the point or being hopelessly naive. Why would people join a long and difficult raid for worse loot than they can get from /afking in a ToA BG? Why should people who want to work harder for their items get less from their effort?

I think most of the people who oppose this patch, agree that camping is no fun, the dull parts of ToA are dull even for people who like PvE. The criticisms aren't that this isn't needed, it's that this is the wrong way to do it.

 

[eggy]

258 votes and it's 82.56% saying Yes - 2.44% off, can't be bad!

Anyway - an interesting thread.

It's clear the majority of the population want TOA to be easy; often due to the fact they have MLed and TOAed several chars and feel it is now repetitve. Fair enough; I understand this and that's something we'll have to accept.

TOA gave a new lease of life to the game I hadn't even considered before; and I've enjoyed every moment of it. I do however feel it's a bit of an insult to those who have enjoyed playing to get chars TOAed, and become involved deeply in the PVE scene. It's a little like giving everyone RR8; it would make anyone who got those 2.797million rps feel pretty pissed off

Same thing here, but a much smaller proportion.

Anyway - good discussion and a nice amount of votes

 

[wittor]

Well I play this game for RvR and in the start of toa I really hated toa but after a while they made some changes and stuff with toa so now I don't "mind" the Arti's and scrolls, sure its a little annoying but if you play in a 'organised' way then u can be verry fast done with toa (arti's & scrolls) even if ur a casual player...
I logged in hib yesterday cus I decided to toa my BM so after 2 day's I have all the arti's , scrolls and items that I need so i'm pretty sure that everything is xp'ed in 2 day's if I want. (oks i'm still missing 1 scroll and 1 item but you get the point) xD
The only thing I really hate are the ML's they are a real pain for me.
Mostly my work hours don't allow me to be on the ML's in the week and in the weekend i'm most of the time not home , if ML's dident took so much time then it would be better
Anyway ur raids are alway's fast and v good Eggy no doubt about that but still need to have time to attend it so imo the changes they did to make toa easier are good

 

[Alliandre]

hmm. This has got me thinking about coming back..

 

[xxManiacxx]

Well if u want PvE challenge try and do ML1-10 with 1fg(mid ofc). There´s a challenge

 

[Jerjerod]

Well if u want PvE challenge try and do ML1-10 with 1fg(mid ofc). There´s a challenge

Those were my thoughts exactly

If, after the patch, you aproach the MLs with the same numbers you do now then they may well be boreingly easy. However if you can now try to do them all with 2 fg or less it'll be as much of a challange as before.