WTF? Teenager's brain removed after drinking cocktail.

Mabs

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So that's three people in a small section of society who have no idea how little current is required to kill a person, despite all of them using electrical equipment every single day.

So how anyone can expect an 18-year-old girl to understand the dangers of the gas she ended up drinking? The responsibility therefore lies with the company that sold it to her.

not really, its more to do with how prepared you are to expose yourself to things you dont understand, as i said, we use electrical items, yea, but we dont stick forks in plug sockets do we ?
 

old.Tohtori

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not really, its more to do with how prepared you are to expose yourself to things you dont understand, as i said, we use electrical items, yea, but we dont stick forks in plug sockets do we ?

Scientists plug metaphorical forks in hypothetical sockets all the time.

People try new stuff without finding out the chemistry in restaurants 24/7.
 

Nate

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You can't really say that once you get intoxicated to a certain point you are no longer responsible for your actions. That is a bit too wide a range. Say you kill someone, it wasn't your fault because you were drunk?

I think it's the business attitude which is the problem, a bar tender that refuses to serve a drink isn't making money for the business. Managers don't like that, and once they are out the door they are no longer their problem.
 

Tom

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not really, its more to do with how prepared you are to expose yourself to things you dont understand, as i said, we use electrical items, yea, but we dont stick forks in plug sockets do we ?

Really, so have you never changed a 240V light bulb? Have you never used a toaster? What if the fuse on one of your electrical appliances burnt out, how would you calculate what value to replace it with? Are you certain that every appliance in your house is fused correctly, because I can tell you that if they're not, you're risking a house fire?
 

old.Tohtori

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Yeap, you're still responsible for your actions(forgiving things done drunk another thing altogether), but it is the bars responsibility to not serve someone they know is wasted. As Nate said, money rules over care of people for bars.

Not that i've not been given drinks when i've been wasted ;)
 

Poag

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Really, so have you never changed a 240V light bulb? Have you never used a toaster? What if the fuse on one of your electrical appliances burnt out, how would you calculate what value to replace it with? Are you certain that every appliance in your house is fused correctly, because I can tell you that if they're not, you're risking a house fire?
I know of people who can't change lightbulbs and call "handy men" when they have a couple which have blown, also for plugs people sometimes take it to a store or buy a new one.

I kid thee not.
 

opticle

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TLDR.

If the bar made it and sold it, and it isn't approved by the relevant Health and Safety Authorities, or without proper warnings, it is their responsibility. I'm sorry but the arguments are saying "She asked for it, therefore it's her fault" are utterly ridiculous.

However, if this is a pre-approved practice, which it may well be (as evidenced by some bars apparently doing something "like" whatever it was that happened - but perhaps they did it wrong), then it may well be the first instance of a rare complication - which is unfortunate and therefore no one's responsibility, it's just bad luck. But the future sale of such a drink then has to be withdrawn and the case looked into.

If the bar did the "Ok" thing wrong, that is also their fault.
 

Gwadien

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You can't really say that once you get intoxicated to a certain point you are no longer responsible for your actions. That is a bit too wide a range. Say you kill someone, it wasn't your fault because you were drunk?

I think it's the business attitude which is the problem, a bar tender that refuses to serve a drink isn't making money for the business. Managers don't like that, and once they are out the door they are no longer their problem.
Killing someone is a bit different, because this has a 3rd party involved, you could say the bar was taking advantage of them, whereas killing someone would mean it's your direct actions onto another person, no 3rd party involved..
 

Job

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To get 10 ma across the heart you need at least 250v at an external point like your hands it would also need to be very good connection say wet hands even then most peoples hearts wpuld just hiccup of course you could just have somepne with a deffibriltor to start it again what i dont understand is why they had to remove her stomach wjen it was only perforated sounds a bit fishy tp me
 

Raven

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Piddly isn't it - some fragment of an amp frommemory - most people think in voltages.

volts thrill, amps kill. That's what I was taught at this place called school, which it seems people don't go to any more? Otherwise, surely they would know that liquid nitrogen will kill you if you fuck with it. I am frankly amazed it is even legal to sell it in a bar...

As for the amount, I think it's as small as 10 that can kill you, depending on the person. Anything above 50 is pretty much instagib.
 

rynnor

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volts thrill, amps kill. That's what I was taught at this place called school (which it seems people don't go to any more?)

As for the amount, I think it's as small as 10 that can kill you, depending on the person. Anything above 50 is pretty much instagib.

0.2 can kill apparently
 

rynnor

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what i dont understand is why they had to remove her stomach wjen it was only perforated sounds a bit fishy tp me

Because if they hadnt she could have easily bled to death - I think perforated is probably a rather mild description - if she swallowed liquid nitrogen as it warmed travelling through her body its quite possible that the resulting expanding gas could have exploded her stomach.
 

Tilda

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It depends on what actually happened, which we don't know. if it did just tear, thats still pretty bad, especially if its a big tear - gas ripping your stomach out is basically going to push out acid, food, other drinks etc into your abdominal cavity, this is not supposed to happen.
The other option is that the drink froze her stomach which would probably point blank kill it - like when you have a wart frozen at the Dr's - thus needing removal.
 

Poag

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Was just an article about it on the radio. She ordered the drink herself. She drank it before the nitrogen had boiled off.

It boiled off in her stomach which made it burst.

Or so they've said.
 

Zenith

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You can't really say that once you get intoxicated to a certain point you are no longer responsible for your actions. That is a bit too wide a range. Say you kill someone, it wasn't your fault because you were drunk?

I think it's the business attitude which is the problem, a bar tender that refuses to serve a drink isn't making money for the business. Managers don't like that, and once they are out the door they are no longer their problem.
You serious Nate?

If said women would get out of this world and stab her self with a fork, found in the bar, thats one thing. Ordering a drink, provided by the facility, for CONSUMPTION, you should not have thing through if its safe. There is a whole fucking bunch of regulations, JUST FOR THIS REASON. However, we dont know all the details regarding the case. If the cocktail was explicitly made contain the LN2, clear instructions would be needed to be given, its a BAR, she was drunk. ALL bartenders, by law, are required to refuse drink to someone too drunk. Ofcourse this would reach to safety instructions as well.
 

SheepCow

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From my understanding (which is based on nothing) a tiny bit of nitrogen is used to make it look like it's an evil potion. I'm guessing (as I have no idea or facts) that they used too much and it hadn't evaporated before she drank it.
 

Nate

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You serious Nate?

If said women would get out of this world and stab her self with a fork, found in the bar, thats one thing. Ordering a drink, provided by the facility, for CONSUMPTION, you should not have thing through if its safe.
Is this first sentence broken English? I can't understand what you're saying here zenith, sorry mate. Are you drunk?! :D

There is a whole fucking bunch of regulations, JUST FOR THIS REASON. However, we dont know all the details regarding the case. If the cocktail was explicitly made contain the LN2, clear instructions would be needed to be given, its a BAR, she was drunk. ALL bartenders, by law, are required to refuse drink to someone too drunk. Ofcourse this would reach to safety instructions as well.
Ofcourse there are regulations, the guy that is too drunk doesn't get the round in, regulation avoided.

Anyway I'm not saying that she should know what she's drinking, I was replying to Gwadien(who I didn't quote, for the trollolols) with what he said here
Well, no you're not really responsible for your actions since you don't have a fucking clue what you're doing, guessing 'cos it's her 18th, she'd be off her tits, so it's then down to the bar to decide to serve her or not, which they clearly shouldn't have :)
Then I said this

You can't really say that once you get intoxicated to a certain point you are no longer responsible for your actions. That is a bit too wide a range. Say you kill someone, it wasn't your fault because you were drunk?

I think it's the business attitude which is the problem, a bar tender that refuses to serve a drink isn't making money for the business. Managers don't like that, and once they are out the door they are no longer their problem.
 
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Job

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My best homemade descrption of electricity is if you imagine marbles faling out of a pipe as the power of electricity then volts is how high off the ground the pipe is and current is how many marbles there are
 

Tom

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My best homemade descrption of electricity is if you imagine marbles faling out of a pipe as the power of electricity then volts is how high off the ground the pipe is and current is how many marbles there are

Don't ever become an electrician because your analogy is complete and utter bollocks.
 

opticle

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How do the marbles drive things ?

What about water in pipes - voltage = pressure, current = volume ? :)
 

Job

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Ive got a hnd in electronics please explain how its incorrect oh master of the constructive critique
 

rynnor

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Voltage is better understood by its other name of potential difference - I still remember the old V = I x R Ohms law formula and the rude rhyme to remember the colour banding on resistors - I just dont find a lot of use for it since I left school :p
 

rynnor

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My best homemade descrption of electricity is if you imagine marbles faling out of a pipe as the power of electricity then volts is how high off the ground the pipe is and current is how many marbles there are

I dont think its a terrible analogy but I think you would need two pipes linked together but with different levels of marbles to represent voltage/potential difference.

Weirdly though current moves through a circuit at the speed of light when you complete it the actual electrons move quite slowly.
 

Job

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Its for people with no knowledge the pipe being one terminal l and the floor the other i think it works better than most
 

rynnor

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Its for people with no knowledge the pipe being one terminal l and the floor the other i think it works better than most

Thats true their would be a potential difference between the floor and the column - you could also represent resistance by having a choke point in the pipe where only 1 marble at a time could pass through.
 

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