TBH Prydwen wizards = lol

[SoulFly]

The world doesn't revolve around you, since when were you Ilaya.

You kind of said it yourself.

Originally Posted by Clipse
The way I look at it, I don't even play on this server, yet Mr Ilum, has dissed my name and my way of playing

Come up with something true and yet, constructive.

 

[Shike]

Shike is so very old and grey

stop stalking me derric and gime some popcorns instead

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

47 Major Conflagration Enemy 2.8s/0s/0s Rng: 1500 219 dmg (Heat) 30 power

219*3=657 afaik. The delve is from herald, is it incorrect?

and also, 209*3=627.. you talking about some baselinenuke mate, cuz 617 is kindof close to my cap with baselinenuke with RAs.

take 657*1.09 TOA, thats 716, then add in MoM aswell and you kinda see how big difference it actually is.

Could have been 219 (sorc's is 209 for sure), cant remember tbh... But, then the tank is on you, you press moc, and your nuking with a 219 DD, then 3 tanks are on you, still single target nuking with a 219DD...

Then I press MoC and nuke with a 331 (wasnt it? cba to lookup) pbaoe that hits all 3 tanks on me for 700+ without debuff, and 1000+ when debuffed...

617 is cap of my baseline nuke with TOA + mom 2... I dont have a firewizard because I know they are doomed in the world of tankalot... I cant see how a fire wizard would do better then a body sorc in the nuking department either...

I've been in body-sorc groups (have an RR6 body sorc) and we lost more fights then with my pbaoe group, and it wasnt crap players (all where rr6ish or higher)...

The biggest problem with DD groups isnt the below rr5 noobs, its the rr7+ gank groups that run around (we have a fair few of those on excal)... Det.5 and/or group purge prevent much CC... They have a dedicated interrupter...

1 MA (body sorc) is going to be doomed in a fire-wizard group, thats why most sorc/caba groups have 2 cabalists so that there's a bigger chance that the MA is still alive to debuff...

The problem with DD groups (imho) isnt when you get in a perfect mez / root and you dont get interrupted, etc... Its when you get insta-mezzed / supprised and the range advantage that you need, is gone...

DD groups need range, PBAoE group (good ones, that use it defensively) dont need range, but they will use range if its there...

Neither are better, both are 'better' in some situations, both are worse in some... But Albion PBAoE groups do work... Might not be easy mode, but if you wanted easy mode, you should have rolled a mid savage group... (and in the comming time, 1x SM, 1x Warrior, 1x Savage, 1x Zerker, 3x Healer, 1x Shaman, run at sprint+caster speed)

If you want a challange, run an alb pbaoe group I have fun with it...

 

[Asty]

As Magmatic pointed out, the biggest problem with the nuke group is that when it gets jumped by a good group there isn't much hope. It doesn't perform well against zergs either. Eventhough every caster group has troubles when it gets jumped (except hibs with their silly GP) a pbae group has bigger chances of surviving.

Anyway, i think that mid and alb pbae groups are quite on par. Hib groups are stronger due to group purge and more solid group setup.

 

[Shike]

Could have been 219 (sorc's is 209 for sure), cant remember tbh... But, then the tank is on you, you press moc, and your nuking with a 219 DD, then 3 tanks are on you, still single target nuking with a 219DD...

Then I press MoC and nuke with a 331 (wasnt it? cba to lookup) pbaoe that hits all 3 tanks on me for 700+ without debuff, and 1000+ when debuffed...

617 is cap of my baseline nuke with TOA + mom 2... I dont have a firewizard because I know they are doomed in the world of tankalot... I cant see how a fire wizard would do better then a body sorc in the nuking department either...

I've been in body-sorc groups (have an RR6 body sorc) and we lost more fights then with my pbaoe group, and it wasnt crap players (all where rr6ish or higher)...

The biggest problem with DD groups isnt the below rr5 noobs, its the rr7+ gank groups that run around (we have a fair few of those on excal)... Det.5 and/or group purge prevent much CC... They have a dedicated interrupter...

1 MA (body sorc) is going to be doomed in a fire-wizard group, thats why most sorc/caba groups have 2 cabalists so that there's a bigger chance that the MA is still alive to debuff...

The problem with DD groups (imho) isnt when you get in a perfect mez / root and you dont get interrupted, etc... Its when you get insta-mezzed / supprised and the range advantage that you need, is gone...

DD groups need range, PBAoE group (good ones, that use it defensively) dont need range, but they will use range if its there...

Neither are better, both are 'better' in some situations, both are worse in some... But Albion PBAoE groups do work... Might not be easy mode, but if you wanted easy mode, you should have rolled a mid savage group... (and in the comming time, 1x SM, 1x Warrior, 1x Savage, 1x Zerker, 3x Healer, 1x Shaman, run at sprint+caster speed)

If you want a challange, run an alb pbaoe group I have fun with it...

Mids PBAE is 331, ours and albs is lower And PBAE isnt really too effective vs those 3 tanks either if they know what they are doing, its easy to spot a moc and run like hell tbh I would rather still DD even when tanks are on me, and I actually do that mostly too with my chanter, reason is simply that then they die for sure, there kinda is no way for them to run away from DDs. And with BG/Guard and another wiz+bodysorc assisting, stuff die fast enough or at least it should do. Most important thing as a caster is that enemies actually die when you spend mana, pbae isnt a guaranteed kill (this is how I see it anyway ofc). With my suggested setup you have 2 extreme damagedealers that only focus on killing stuff while you have two other guys debuffing stats and heat/interrupting/CCing etc. Sure magegrp works out too but still, they actually do less damage. You also loose out on a valuable tool in the bolts and AoEDD. You have no idea how often I wish my chanter had an AoEDD

Anyhow to summon this up, I think both setups work out, I think mine is killing faster overall and is more effective vs a castergrp from say mid or hib and also a more fun setup since I like kinda like big nukers. (FireDDs look awesome too^^). The magesetup has some more utility and if one is an extremely "skilled" (read uberfast/uberperception) player then perhaps it is better in the longrun, hard to tell. Thanks for a constructive discussion in the matter, aint often I see them here on this forum .

 

[Fedaykin]

Mids PBAE is 331, ours and albs is lower And PBAE isnt really too effective vs those 3 tanks either if they know what they are doing, its easy to spot a moc and run like hell tbh I would rather still DD even when tanks are on me, and I actually do that mostly too with my chanter, reason is simply that then they die for sure, there kinda is no way for them to run away from DDs. And with BG/Guard and another wiz+bodysorc assisting, stuff die fast enough or at least it should do. Most important thing as a caster is that enemies actually die when you spend mana, pbae isnt a guaranteed kill (this is how I see it anyway ofc). With my suggested setup you have 2 extreme damagedealers that only focus on killing stuff while you have two other guys debuffing stats and heat/interrupting/CCing etc. Sure magegrp works out too but still, they actually do less damage. You also loose out on a valuable tool in the bolts and AoEDD. You have no idea how often I wish my chanter had an AoEDD

Anyhow to summon this up, I think both setups work out, I think mine is killing faster overall and is more effective vs a castergrp from say mid or hib and also a more fun setup since I like kinda like big nukers. (FireDDs look awesome too^^). The magesetup has some more utility and if one is an extremely "skilled" (read uberfast/uberperception) player then perhaps it is better in the longrun, hard to tell. Thanks for a constructive discussion in the matter, aint often I see them here on this forum .

I've tested both fire groups and mage groups with Me as MA debuffing fire and in mage groups me as simply a nuker and i found that both worked very well.

2 spirit cabalists, 3 sorcs - 2 body- one mind, mincer, 2 clerics was the setup if i remember correctly

the 5 pets really help a lot - that is all the support petted at once which kind of helps without a theurgist. As aforementioned the problem is when people lose a mez battle -
i thought this setup worked best because 3 sorcs should very rarely lose and all 3 sorcs and the minstrel have access to the demezz spell. Lifetap on every mage reduced the need for healing as much and both body sorcs were punching DD's into the 6-700's without crits with the rest in the 5-600's - it was basically assist, dd move on - because very few peopel can take so much damage so fast.

We informed the MA not to be choosy about his targets and to pick targets threatening the group most - i.e. savages who were on a target, it didnt matter that he has evade or chain tbh because they dropped so fast.

SoS on the minstrel helped if we lost mezz because we could all scatter and land our own mezz and at least set our pets.

-------

Fire debuff group - was me(body sorc), 3 fire wizzies, minstrel, 2 clerics, mind sorc - we still had 3 demezzers which was nice however we only had two pets and only me who was capable of a 50% debuff

needless to say the group worked quite well - i ran this group with much less experienced players, all rr2-rr5 and we still won some full group encounters. The key was the initial mez, if we landed this then 3 fire wizzies blew the groups of of the sky. Problems occured when we were jumped as our clerics were quite poor, i would liek to try this group again sometime with a few more experienced players and see how we would do.

i think this type of group offers very little over the mage group however it still had its bonuses and fast assisting was the key - i'd say voice coms is pretty essential

----------------------------------------

At the moment i run in Magmatics pbaoe group as the main CC/debuffer - it works pretty well however we got totally owned by Dem Hibbies last night, but we cant win them all. The key to pbaoe is co-ordination of the wizards, if they work together well then the group will work - if they dont then the group will suck

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

AEDD / Bolts are the only 2 things missing in a mage group, damage isnt an issue vs 2x (3x) firewizards, since a magegroup has 4x dedicated damages... The 2 body sorcs and spirit cabalists do nothing but debuff + nuke and there's a possibility of a 5th (the mind sorc)...

Also survivability of a cabalist / body sorc is higher when being attacked, moc + lifetap vs moc + normal dd...

So lose AEDD/Bolts and gain more pets (pets pwn) and a small bit of survivability... In the end not 'that' much difference between firewiz-debuff group and a mage-debuff group...

But saying you can kill a group faster then a pbaoe group is kidding yourself

Top speed that we've killed a FG in was, uhm, 5s... 6s if you count running to them, doubt you'll beat that with DD group Ok, this was vs. brehons, nicely standing at 1 spot buffing, we run to them, sorc breaks off to mez, and we run in to pbaoe (2x ice wiz), group was dead on 4th pbaoe (1.2s per pbaoe)...

But I can kill 2-3fg in the same time, we regurlarly defend keeps and kill 30-40 people simply because they dont expect it...

Its true though, pbaoe requires a lot of power compared to DD's, and if we face a group that has 'runners' (tanks that run when you pbaoe ) in it, I'll often single target nuke them as well, but seriously there are SO many tanks that have no clue how to combat bodyguard, or simply stick + f6 (or dont even know what moc looks like)...

But its so funny to get one of the clerics run to me with 3-4 tanks on them and while the cleric runs to me they get ice-debuffed by our body sorc and hit them for 1k in 1.2s ... Good healers that keep those tanks alive...

Anyways, my cup of tea is pbaoe groups, love them, cant rvr without them Some swear by DD groups (from mage -> firewiz -> theurg/caba groups), and some... Just play tank groups

However, the question thats raised a lot in this thread is, "Are alb-pbaoe groups viable" and I say yes, although their not the easiest group to play...

 

[Ilum]

However, the question thats raised a lot in this thread is, "Are alb-pbaoe groups viable" and I say yes, although their not the easiest group to play...

My point exactly, I guess we agree in the end :]

 

[old.windforce]

imo albs can field 2 viable nuke-type groups

1 based around the caba - debuff / sorc - nuke with loads of pets and better change on winning cc

1 based around icewizzys which have better defense due to pbaoebox but way less utility then sm / chanter groups due to lack of pets

another, less likely, possibility is a firewiz / debuff group which will prolly kill a few enemies due to high damage / long range but die pretty fast

its where group purge kicks in where albs are f***. mids have loads of interrupts too

off course icewiz groups are viable. erodafira and ilum have run them loads pretty succesfull. its just that mids / hibs have better classes for good pbaoegroups

 

[Roadie]

Anyway, i think that mid and alb pbae groups are quite on par

i think mid pbae has a lot more going for it tbh, its just that its overshadowed by savage groups a bit +P

 

[Ilum]

i think mid pbae has a lot more going for it tbh, its just that its overshadowed by savage groups a bit +P

Aye, try imagining a group with 3 healers 1 shaman 1 skald 2 spiritmasters and a savage with bodyguard :]

 

[Asty]

Aye, try imagining a group with 3 healers 1 shaman 1 skald 2 spiritmasters and a savage with bodyguard :]

Tbh dunno if thats really the best group setup. I haven't come to the conclusion about whats best yet but these are atleast good ones:

2 sms, 1 darkcarver, 1 skald, 1 shammy, 1 warrior, 2 healers
or
2 sms, 1 darkcarver, 1 shammy, 1 warrior, 3 healers
or
2 supp sms, 1 dark sm, 1 darkcarver, 1 shammy, 1 warrior, 2 healers

 

[Clipse]

No offense Zoyster, but you arent the 2nd or 3rd Icey in 'teh world', your the 3rd Wizard in the world... Of the 9.5M rps you have now, you've been Fire for 90% of the rps that you have gained...

Saying your the 3rd icey in the world would suggest that you've been Ice since the start...
But saying you should be feared because your the 3rd ice wiz in the world doesnt really make people fear you, beating them in battle will... :wub:

No offense Magmatic, but we play in the premier league, you stick to Odins and wierd places where the toughest u come against are RR4's, only recently have I seen u in emain.

I din't really wanna coem back to this thread, but FYI, I've got 3m+ RPs since being ice.

Tbh, I don't liek threads where people tell you how to play DAOC. A LOT of group set-ups are viable, with good players, and in different situations. But, overall albion wizards do have it difficult.

Magmatic, do u have VP ?

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

No offense Magmatic, but we play in the premier league, you stick to Odins and wierd places where the toughest u come against are RR4's, only recently have I seen u in emain.

I din't really wanna coem back to this thread, but FYI, I've got 3m+ RPs since being ice.

Tbh, I don't liek threads where people tell you how to play DAOC. A LOT of group set-ups are viable, with good players, and in different situations. But, overall albion wizards do have it difficult.

Magmatic, do u have VP ?

How come if we play in the 'minor league' are we known to give good fights and your known to zerg? You dont even know how to spell 'Odins Gate' let alone port there, each time we see you in Odin, someone in /as says : Zoyster is lost again...

And f.y.i., played against Groove & Red guard yesterday in Odin's Gate... Most fg that do run in Odin are guild groups, noob (rr4) groups usually travel with 2-3 fg... But you wouldnt know, since you never go there... Most of the time there are no random albs around to save your arse either...

And I very much doubt you have gained 3M+ rps since being ice, but if you say so, fine... At least show some ice-wizard skills then, running solo into a mg-room camped by rr10 hibs is not skill, its utter noobness...

And, yes I do have VP, I dropped it for a while as (Due to lag) it was more trouble then that it was worth, but its ok now... Even though it still doesnt fire most of the time (VP is very overrated)...

 

[Clipse]

RG and Groove arn't that great, infact it is those 2 guilds I was thinking of when i said u play in the 1st division.

running solo into a mg-room camped by rr10 hibs is not skill, its utter noobness...

What r u talking about here ?

(VP is very underrated, why do u think it got nerfed)

 

[Eroda]

VP is a decent enough ra, too expensive for what it is though imo.

Mostly used it for interupting something thats causing probs in a fight or for supplementing pbaoe damage.

 

[Clipse]

When u have a class with 0 utility, then there is an aoe INSTA spell u can have, it is worth the 14 points.

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

For what VP does, its an expensive RA... Drop off is huge, damage isnt that great...

It got nerfed because the previous version was good damage and less drop off (well, it was still huge, but the area of good damage was bigger due to it having a bigger area overall)... I had VP before the boost, and the reason I have it now is still the same... Rarely use VP for damage... Mostly use it for interrupting... I'm personally happy with it now, the range was too big and caused too much mez-breaking...

As for Groove, 9 active players, 1.2M last week, Guardians of Light, 192 active players, 1.8M last week... You decide... Red Guard overal doesnt make 'such' good groups, but this one with Guardsxmen in it was pretty decent...

Tell me any good groups that you've beaten then lately in your 'premier league' then? And then I mean fg vs fg, not fg + some adds vs fg... Which guilds have you won from then? DH ? No way... Vengeance? LA? CF? Perhaps if garbannoch isnt in the group... Havent seen NP for a while, so cant really add them to your kill list...

All major hib guilds run in Odin, perhaps now a bit less due to Odin being a bit quiet (but we spend most of our time in Emain now too)... Several major mid guilds come to Odin from time to time too...

But hey I dont mind, I know we get respect from our enemies for our fighting abilities, several hibs/mids already expressed the way they feel about the groups your in...

So lets kiss and make up

 

[SoulFly]

Remembered this:

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/torkko/daoc/alb_mage_group.avi

Pretty old but anyway

 

[[NO]Subedai]

yep met groove and rg in odins.
hardly frist devision when those grps pwn most alb grps (including gol-perhaps ur about to get relegagted i guess)
maybe not so much RG (still respectable) but groove certainly do, despite they ebay links.
odins is not first devision or whatever, that has never existed. there are same quality oppoments but more of em in emain than odins,but quality is still the same ofc.

 

[Clipse]

[QUOTE='[NO]
So lets kiss and make up [/QUOTE]

K, only if you group with us, in the future.....

(FYI, My Wizard is better looking than yours and he is 2-timing Regtur with Onlyone, the cutest broads out there)

 

[Clipse]

Soulfly, that video is really depressing lol.

 

[SoulFly]

Soulfly, that video is really depressing lol.

yeah, a rr10 cleric in epic and I heard he didn't have bof either, dunno if he has it now..

was something like "I don't want bof" ^~^

Tho, I had convo with ceix in irc and he said its epic he's wearing in that vid.. Tho bp seems to be sidi, just because it heals once he's hit? ;\

And he wore epic a long time keke

 

[Clipse]

ok.

 

[Balbor]

Aye, try imagining a group with 3 healers 1 shaman 1 skald 2 spiritmasters and a savage with bodyguard :]

and AOE stun is kinda useful for PBAE

 

[Roadie]

I was thinking that, along with the way better defence in the intercept pets, the debuffs the Sm's have for interupts, the mezz, the demez, the higher delve pbae, two bodyguarders, mach 6, disease, an extra healer!!! and five demezzers. This has to be the best group in suprise situations as well with insta mez and ae stun.

It dosnt have the nuking power of wizzi group tho which is prety big problem when you consider what shike said bout pbae not being garenteed dmg. But it does have a savage in there for a bit of dammage that wont eat power (i suppose a merc could be in a alb pbae at the cost of thurg but then you are a bit behind in the interupt war).

 

[raid]

RG and Groove arn't that great, infact it is those 2 guilds I was thinking of when i said u play in the 1st division.

RG isnt exactly active, but recently I've played a lot in more or less random grps, usually with quite a few groove members. And by my experience this "arent that great" means you can maybe kill a few ppl or sometimes win (ie. a nice fight) if you happen to be out with a fg. Last time I met you fg vs fg was a couple of days ago, we won twice and then you suddenly took another fg with you. The 2fg setup with enough ppl to chaingrapple all tanks works always nice tho (yes we still usually run a tank grp), no wonder you seem to prefer it most of the time.

Have had some nice fights versus NO too, and they definitely are in the same league with GoL, except they don't run 2fg+. Agree with the part about odins being a kind of easy mode tho, usually higher chance to meet low rr / otherwise not opted groups there.

 

[Fedaykin]

we run odins because its the best place for fg v fg action not because we like to fight brehons, far from it.

If we are in Hibernia frontiers then we are usually in breifine as once again, its easier to fight fg v fg there.

We get high and low rr groups in odin and to say that we go there simply to kill brehons is stupid - it's just the fact we hate zerging and hate being zerged.

 

[Clipse]

I wasnt trying to be rude, was just saying that in Odins, the chances of dieing are slimmer.

 

[Puppet]

But your boosting over the 657 cap, but my wiz with toa + mom 2 hits at 617 cap... The difference between a 209DD and base 179DD isnt 'that' huge...

Its 219 versus 179 and its a good 20% difference

And no matter how much TOA-gear and RA's you add; if both toons get the same it stays a good 20%

Its less dmg then PBAE if you hit multiple targets (not if you PBAE 1 person; since PBAE has fall-off so you wont hit 'cap' that often with it; its more likely to hit for 700~ on PBAE after debuff; which is what you would do too with fire)

I know for sure ranged-nukes kill better then PBAE (against good enemies). If you wanna sacrifice PBAE for faster killing on range it depends on your playstyle if you think its worth it.

For perfect fg vs fg it would def. be worth it. But DAOC aint perfect. You get jumped; you get pwned from behind/flanked, you get insta-CC'ed; the game aint perfect. Then PBAE begins to shine

Tho in fg vs fg I rather fight a PBAE-group then a ranged group. And ranged fire-wizard with debuff = ouch.

Its a trade-off; both can be viable.

And.. I remember Magmatic as fire-wizard

Fire also looks way cooler!