TBH Prydwen wizards = lol

[Clipse]

:eek2:

 

[Aoln]

So you admit you just zerged all your rps?

 

[Clipse]

Nice signature wiseguy.

 

[DaggerElivager]

Nice signature wiseguy.

nicely avoided the question

 

[Shike]

I guess Prydwen Albs has realized how useless the wizard as a class is. So I guess the real thread title should be: "Excal Wizards = Lol why havent they rerolled yet?".

The Wizard is a weak class in RvR. It can do "ok" in a proper RvR group, but it's acres away from the performance of Enchanters, Eldritchs and Spiritmasters.

i dont agree at all tbh.. you guys are just stuck in a weird way of thinking.

 

[Ilum]

i dont agree at all tbh.. you guys are just stuck in a weird way of thinking.

Perhaps you dont realize how gimped a Wizard is. It's not comparable to an Enchanter AT ALL Enchanter group can play ok and perform good. Wizard group has to play fabulous to do decent. Not good FG v FG, but PBAE is always nice vs Zergs if you use it correctly.

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

Perhaps you dont realize how gimped a Wizard is. It's not comparable to an Enchanter AT ALL Enchanter group can play ok and perform good. Wizard group has to play fabulous to do decent. Not good FG v FG, but PBAE is always nice vs Zergs if you use it correctly.

You shouldnt compare a class in a group to a class in another group, you should compare groups to groups... And yes, then Hibs/Mids have an advantage over Albs... But I dont see you crying nerf about tank groups (if you didnt guess, the advantage is present there too)...

If your talking about random groups, I fully agree that alb groups have it a lot harder... Basicly because mistakes are harder to correct... This has several reasons, from insta-cc's to specific ra's, etc...

I never play in random groups because I get annoyed very quickly when people dont do their 'job' properly, a cleric smiting, a minstrel trying to mez tanks (or interrupt the healer/druid when there's a bard/shaman interrupting your group), a sorc wondering 'what does this button do', a wizard running in to pbaoe rr8 mids/hibs when you KNOW they have +50% cold resist... You know, stuff like that

Get a good group up, and alb groups can perform as well, just dont make too many mistakes in fights

 

[Shike]

Perhaps you dont realize how gimped a Wizard is. It's not comparable to an Enchanter AT ALL Enchanter group can play ok and perform good. Wizard group has to play fabulous to do decent. Not good FG v FG, but PBAE is always nice vs Zergs if you use it correctly.

I just realize that a wizard would nuke for 7xx easily without crits if a bodysorc debuffs before, thats with same RAs as I have. I also realize that 2 wizards assisting that sorc would kill anything in 2 rounds of nukes since it would be 2800+ damage, thats just 2 nukes from 2 toons and it would take around 2-3seconds. Its the same principal that we currently are using, only difference is that my damage is crap compared to what a firewiz can nuke for. When we think of setups we think: How can we kill stuff fastest possible? and try to find a way with decent defense+killspeed. An albgrp with wizards would require extremely fast players and good in general aswell otherwise its shit worth. But then again, its the same deal for us aswell in hibernia, it aint as easy as some seem to think really.

PBAoE sure can be nifty, but its highly overrated tbh, DDing on assist is what kills, and it kills fast and this is what I would use if I was alb.

edit: what i meant with your way of thinking was simply, you overcomplicate and think too much about utility when you actually have the possibity to create a group that can wipe another grp in around 20 seconds.

 

[Ilum]

You shouldnt compare a class in a group to a class in another group, you should compare groups to groups... And yes, then Hibs/Mids have an advantage over Albs... But I dont see you crying nerf about tank groups (if you didnt guess, the advantage is present there too)...

If your talking about random groups, I fully agree that alb groups have it a lot harder... Basicly because mistakes are harder to correct... This has several reasons, from insta-cc's to specific ra's, etc...

I never play in random groups because I get annoyed very quickly when people dont do their 'job' properly, a cleric smiting, a minstrel trying to mez tanks (or interrupt the healer/druid when there's a bard/shaman interrupting your group), a sorc wondering 'what does this button do', a wizard running in to pbaoe rr8 mids/hibs when you KNOW they have +50% cold resist... You know, stuff like that

Get a good group up, and alb groups can perform as well, just dont make too many mistakes in fights

Well yes, for FG v FG balance it's pointless to compare 1 class with another to compare balance. But when it's the class you build the group around, it kind of does matter. If playing an icewiz is your cup of tea then do that But it is easier to perform with a Hib chanter group, I can't see anyone denying that...

 

[Ilum]

I just realize that a wizard would nuke for 7xx easily without crits if a bodysorc debuffs before, thats with same RAs as I have. I also realize that 2 wizards assisting that sorc would kill anything in 2 rounds of nukes since it would be 2800+ damage, thats just 2 nukes from 2 toons and it would take around 2-3seconds. Its the same principal that we currently are using, only difference is that my damage is crap compared to what a firewiz can nuke for. When we think of setups we think: How can we kill stuff fastest possible? and try to find a way with decent defense+killspeed. An albgrp with wizards would require extremely fast players and good in general aswell otherwise its shit worth. But then again, its the same deal for us aswell in hibernia, it aint as easy as some seem to think really.

PBAoE sure can be nifty, but its highly overrated tbh, DDing on assist is what kills, and it kills fast and this is what I would use if I was alb.

edit: what i meant with your way of thinking was simply, you overcomplicate and think too much about utility when you actually have the possibity to create a group that can wipe another grp in around 20 seconds.

Yes, wizards got good DD's. But they cant debuff their own damage. So you need an extra char to do that, or sacrifice mind spec. So basically, in an assist-nuke group, a wizard got:

1) DD
2) Root
3) VP
(PBAE if Icewizard tho, but worse DD)

A Chanter got:
1) Debuff baseline DD (of course, since PBAE is so bad your Eldritch should respec light, right? )
2) PBAE
3) Pet (hello? this kinda helps a little...)
4) BaoD instead of VP (BaoD > VP imo atleast)
5) insta interrupt on 5 sec timer ... zzzz
6) stun

I agree tho with what you say partly. PBAE isnt that good - atleast not for caster vs caster FG fights. It's very good to farm zergs. Assist dd'ing is basically what you use, and an Albion Mage group is much better than Albion Elementalist Group for that type of play.

Shikei, I don't really believe that you actually believe an Albion Elementaist group compares to a Hib Chanter grp?

 

[old.windforce]

I would hope that having 9.5 million RPs with this gimped class would do do the talking, but apparently not.

9.5 mio rps has a lot more to do with how much time you put in a char then with skill


ow btw: ilum >>> you

 

[Shike]

Yes, wizards got good DD's. But they cant debuff their own damage. So you need an extra char to do that, or sacrifice mind spec. So basically, in an assist-nuke group, a wizard got:

1) DD
2) Root
3) VP
(PBAE if Icewizard tho, but worse DD)

A Chanter got:
1) Debuff baseline DD (of course, since PBAE is so bad your Eldritch should respec light, right? )
2) PBAE
3) Pet (hello? this kinda helps a little...)
4) BaoD instead of VP (BaoD > VP imo atleast)
5) insta interrupt on 5 sec timer ... zzzz
6) stun

I agree tho with what you say partly. PBAE isnt that good - atleast not for caster vs caster FG fights. It's very good to farm zergs. Assist dd'ing is basically what you use, and an Albion Mage group is much better than Albion Elementalist Group for that type of play.

Shikei, I don't really believe that you actually believe an Albion Elementaist group compares to a Hib Chanter grp?

Killspeed>utility, is all i'm trying to say here really, thats all. I'm also convinced that a good grp of 2elementalists and 2mages would kill us in seconds if they knew what they was doing. We are gonna build a grp with a setup I have in my head somewhere to try it out I think. Would need rr6+ on the grp for it to work really good but im convinced its a deadly grp based on nothing but sheer raw killspeed with DDs. DDs>all in terms of killingpower (unless you can pbae some stupid zerg ofc but that dont really count imo).

We could do something similar in hibernia aswell ofc with chanter, lightmenta, lighteld but our casters are quite balanced DDwise so there is no real need for it.

Oh and I dont have BAoD

 

[Ilum]

The way I look at it, I don't even play on this server, yet Mr Ilum, has dissed my name and my way of playing, and to compound the issue, its mostly bollox. Im not gonna bother defending myself, for the 7000th time, will well thought witty quips and one liners, and just tell em to FO these days.

If you know me in-game you know that I dont "try make peopel fear me". When someone disses you (Ilum) who doesn't know you, trust me he IS a cock and forum Sheep

I dissed your name when?

 

[Ilum]

Killspeed>utility, is all i'm trying to say here really, thats all. I'm also convinced that a good grp of 2elementalists and 2mages would kill us in seconds if they knew what they was doing. We are gonna build a grp with a setup I have in my head somewhere to try it out I think. Would need rr6+ on the grp for it to work really good but im convinced its a deadly grp based on nothing but sheer raw killspeed with DDs. DDs>all in terms of killingpower (unless you can pbae some stupid zerg ofc but that dont really count imo).

We could do something similar in hibernia aswell ofc with chanter, lightmenta, lighteld but our casters are quite balanced DDwise so there is no real need for it.

Oh and I dont have BAoD

You didn't answer the question Shikei - do you think an Albion Elementalist Group stacks up to a Hib Chanter group?

And btw, what does it mean that you don't have BaoD? I just said that in my opinion, BaoD is a better RA than Volcanic Pillar. Maybe that's not true but it doesnt make a lot of difference.

 

[Shike]

You didn't answer the question Shikei - do you think an Albion Elementalist Group stacks up to a Hib Chanter group?

And btw, what does it mean that you don't have BaoD? I just said that in my opinion, BaoD is a better RA than Volcanic Pillar. Maybe that's not true but it doesnt make a lot of difference.

I already said that im convinced that we can be killed by an albgrp with casters in it, 2 elementalists and 2 mages and we are a hibcastergrpa so...

 

[Ilum]

I already said that im convinced that we can be killed by an albgrp with casters in it, 2 elementalists and 2 mages and we are a hibcastergrpa so...

I agree with that, but I think it's easier for the hib group to win.

I.e. Alb groups plays with 5 / 10 skill. Hib group plays with 5 / 10 skill. Hib groups wins.
Alb group plays with 6 / 10 skill. Hib group plays with 4 / 10 skill. Now its a close fight.

Something like that. That's my view on it. Elementalist vs Hib chanter grp that is.

 

[SoulFly]

Amusing thread. giving this 5 stars!

Now to the reply..

Shike, compare these groups:

Druid
Druid
Bard
Warden
Hero
Chant
Chant
Eld

vs

Cleric
Cleric
Sorc (What kind of AE mez will you have? crap one :G)
Mincer
Pala
Wiz
Wiz
Wiz

or

Cleric
Cleric
Mincer
Pala
Caba
Sorc
Sorc
Sorc\caba

I don't have to list the things each group has, as we're all experienced players and know what they have. If you don't know what they have, don't post

Honestly I would like to test that wiz group. The idea's just wicked. Boom boom boom. The gfx on the lvl 47 dd is just :eek2:

 

[Shike]

Amusing thread. giving this 5 stars!

Now to the reply..

Shike, compare these groups:

Druid
Druid
Bard
Warden
Hero
Chant
Chant
Eld

vs

Cleric
Cleric
Sorc (What kind of AE mez will you have? crap one :G)
Mincer
Pala
Wiz
Wiz
Wiz

or

Cleric
Cleric
Mincer
Pala
Caba
Sorc
Sorc
Sorc\caba

I don't have to list the things each group has, as we're all experienced players and know what they have. If you don't know what they have, don't post

Honestly I would like to test that wiz group. The idea's just wicked. Boom boom boom. The gfx on the lvl 47 dd is just :eek2:

I'd go with 1 mindsorc, 1 bodysorc, 1 pally, 1 mincer, 2 clerics, 2 firewizards.

Bodysorc MA, wizards use bolts on boxed casters from superior range, nukingpower is insane from 2 wizards, I nuke hard, but those wizards would outdamage me by quite abit since they have full firespecc, they will hit cap on every single nuke which happens to be the strongest one in daoc iirc.

219delved*3=657, add in TOA and some MoM on that and i'd say, OUCH, we're talking nukes for around 750+ here. A wiz 2shot me every single time I get MAd tbh and they would pretty much 2shot every caster around (with a crit on one of the nukes its a dead caster no doubt), now since its 2 wizards thats 1 nuke each. Say the sorc decide to MA a savage with 2600 hits, 1, 2, 3, 4 dead savage. Thats 2 rounds of nukes from the wizards. If you wanna kill faster have the bodysorc add in a LT here or there, not that it will make much difference really. You have a BGer in the Paladin that works out ok and he guards well enough too. You also have the topdebuffs in str/con and dex/qui too and those really matters. Add in both on a savage or something and he will hit for far less damage. You have the master of interrupts, the minstrel and you also have 2xBoF and a SoS and a FH to add in to help, VP is also very very handy on a Box btw . Not to mention if you have a fast sorc, he can debuff pretty much everything in the box and wizards just let loose with the 158*3=474basedamagenukes on boxes too. Now if you cant kill hibs with that, you cant kill it with anything you put up tbh.

That group in the hands of skilled players is fecking lethal imho and it also sounds like a very fun setup too, raw sheer nukingpower with huge damage.

Fuck utillity when you can 4shot everything in daoc tbh. Thats how I think. All it takes is a grp of very fast players and a very good MA in the bodysorc.

Am I so wrong SF? I dunno, maybe my brain is too old so I miss something but that setup should work out just fine tbh.

 

[SoulFly]

I'd go with 1 mindsorc, 1 bodysorc, 1 pally, 1 mincer, 2 clerics, 2 firewizards.

That's probably a better setup aye.

Am I so wrong SF? I dunno, maybe my brain is too old so I miss something but that setup should work out just fine tbh.

No, you're definetely not wrong here. The don't post thing was for all the odd people posting in this thread :|

I would love to try this setup.. I mean get septina as bodysorc..hrrhrrr....can just see people being prawned to bits :| Myself I could play the pala or Wiz :>

Wonder if I could get people up for this..

 

[Shike]

That's probably a better setup aye.


No, you're definetely not wrong here. The don't post thing was for all the odd people posting in this thread :|

I would love to try this setup.. I mean get septina as bodysorc..hrrhrrr....can just see people being prawned to bits :| Myself I could play the pala or Wiz :>

Wonder if I could get people up for this..

GL

 

[Sycho]

I told you soulfly wiz is fun at 50...i remember mine doing fuckloads of damage with sagba's debuff xD

 

[SoulFly]

I told you soulfly wiz is fun at 50...i remember mine doing fuckloads of damage with sagba's debuff xD

Remember our SotL group? Our sorc was body spec at the time when we playing with Walker in the group, did assist debuff nuke hehe -_-

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

F.y.i. there's no best setup, your group is only as good as its parts... If you have crap players in your group, you suck... No matter how 'good' your setup is...

In general, pbaoe groups perform better against larger numbers, if you want to do a debuff-nuke group, do it with body sorcs/cabalists, and *not* with firewizards...

With wizards you are facing different damage types, while a body-sorc & caba-group all do 1 type of damage, body... Easier to debuff, more casters benefit from the debuff... Also, the utility of a body sorc is higher then that of a fire-wizard...

2x Body Sorc, 2x Spirit Caba, 2x Cleric, 1x Minstrel/BG-Paladin, 1x Mind sorc, will perform better then the wizard group (if its equal skilled players), simply due to the fact that it has 5 pets, instead of 2/3... And has 5x debuffed damage instead of 2x ...

But your boosting over the 657 cap, but my wiz with toa + mom 2 hits at 617 cap... The difference between a 209DD and base 179DD isnt 'that' huge...

Anyways, in the end you cant compare a DD group with a PBAoE group, because they are different... Also 3x Ice Wiz leaves you with no guard against savages, granted normal guard wasnt worth getting in the group, but bodyguard is too good to get another icewiz for...

So I'd go for 2x Ice Wiz, 1x BG Tank, 1x Theurg, 1x Minst, 1x Sorc (body/mind, ours is 47 body), 2x Cleric... Its our current setup and works v.well in FG vs FG fights, and pretty good (still need some toa training there) against more then 1 FG... Nothing beats the look on a tanks face when you pbaoe them while being bodyguarded

I agree though, a well skilled hib group is hard (and if they are very skilled, impossible) to beat with an equal skilled alb group... We ran into DH a couple of times tonight, and we didnt beat them once, heck we only killed 1 member once, and that was after a lot of other albs added... But ok, its a group that has uh, 4x or 5x defender in it... (rr11) rest is rr9 / rr10...

 

[Ilum]

Fuck utillity when you can 4shot everything in daoc tbh. Thats how I think. All it takes is a grp of very fast players and a very good MA in the bodysorc.

This would be nice if Wizard actually had more damage than it's counterparts.

Damage = good
Damage + utility = better

 

[Eroda]

Debuffing for fire wizards would be quite fun and might work ok. Been very tempted to respec my wizzie.
Though when i look at the wizard class, why bother with wizards when u could debuff nuke with cabalists\sorcs and have so many more options. Bolts are ok in certain circumstances but more often than not they're gonna get blocked.

Probably will start running pbaoe groups again soon but dunno if i really wanna play a wizard now after experiencing the much greater choices available to my theurg or soon to be 50 split spec sorc

Good thread anyway, made me wanna try out different group set ups again

 

[Shike]

But your boosting over the 657 cap, but my wiz with toa + mom 2 hits at 617 cap... The difference between a 209DD and base 179DD isnt 'that' huge...

47 Major Conflagration Enemy 2.8s/0s/0s Rng: 1500 219 dmg (Heat) 30 power

219*3=657 afaik. The delve is from herald, is it incorrect?

and also, 209*3=627.. you talking about some baselinenuke mate, cuz 617 is kindof close to my cap with baselinenuke with RAs.

take 657*1.09 TOA, thats 716, then add in MoM aswell and you kinda see how big difference it actually is.

 

[Clipse]

I dissed your name when?

The world doesn't revolve around you, since when were you Ilaya.

9.5 mio rps has a lot more to do with how much time you put in a char then with skill


ow btw: ilum >>> you

Wake up!

 

[Clipse]

Fire wizards arent shit fyi.

Bolts are extremely uber. a good bolt is like a Debuffed DD. 2 bolts can take out rougue Elfs n Luris from a great distance.

AOE fire cast time is reduced, good for interupting support.

mebe I should respec...

 

[Shike]

Debuffing for fire wizards would be quite fun and might work ok. Been very tempted to respec my wizzie.
Though when i look at the wizard class, why bother with wizards when u could debuff nuke with cabalists\sorcs and have so many more options. Bolts are ok in certain circumstances but more often than not they're gonna get blocked.

Probably will start running pbaoe groups again soon but dunno if i really wanna play a wizard now after experiencing the much greater choices available to my theurg or soon to be 50 split spec sorc

Good thread anyway, made me wanna try out different group set ups again

bolts are pure casterkillers tbh, if both bolts land the recieving caster is pretty much.. deaded. Since casters kinda are hibs strong side I find it weird that I dont see that giant ball of 331 delved naaaaaasty fire comin to visit my face at all atm. Sure magegrps work out but I dunno, I would try something else thats all But then again, im a treehugger too

 

[Derric]

Shike is so very old and grey