Syria

[Chilly]

nice updates, thanks. There doesnt seem to be any hard evidence yet. What intrigues me is we care about this parituclar set of human rights violations and not those happening in other places.

 

[BloodOmen]

nice updates, thanks. There doesnt seem to be any hard evidence yet. What intrigues me is we care about this parituclar set of human rights violations and not those happening in other places.

 

[TdC]

Key Points

• British MPs will debate military action in Syria after the opposition blocked government plans for an early vote on intervention
• The White House is due to give senior US Congress members a classified briefing on why it is certain Syria has used chemical weapons
• UN weapons inspectors in Syria are expected to complete their investigations on Friday and leave Damascus on Saturday
• US President Barack Obama says he has not yet decided on a plan for retaliatory action against President Bashar al-Assad
• Syria has accused the West of "inventing" excuses to launch an attack and warned of "grave consequences" in case of a strike

re point 4: retaliation? really? Syria attacked something belonging to the US then?

• there is convincing evidence of extreme humanitarian distress on a large scale;

• there is no practicable alternative to the use of force;
• and the proposed use of force is proportionate to the aim and strictly limited in time and scope.

re point 1: sorry, no country really really gives a shit about that unless the UN tells them to.
re point 2: WHAT THE FUCK?
re point 3: see point 2

 

[BloodOmen]

re point 4: retaliation? really? Syria attacked something belonging to the US then?



re point 1: sorry, no country really really gives a shit about that unless the UN tells them to.
re point 2: WHAT THE FUCK?
re point 3: see point 2

Heh yea, I thought the Syria one was amusing as well

"Syria has accused the West of "inventing" excuses to launch an attack and warned of "grave consequences" in case of a strike"

It's more a case of the west looking for an excuse to invade rather than inventing one, after all the chemical weapons were not invented (assuming UN weapon inspectors say so of course), reminds me of a trigger happy police officer really, looking for an excuse to pull out his gun and use it on someone.

 

[Chilly]

International law doesn't really exist anyway. It's just "if no one in a position of power objects very loud it'll be fine".

 

[BloodOmen]

Good quote from Ed Miliband

"Evidence should precede decision; not decision precede evidence."

If only they thought about that back in 2003.

 

[caLLous]

I'm sure everybody here is far too cool for reddit but there's an excellent sub at r/syriancivilwar with up-to-the-minute information about pretty much every aspect of what's happening over there.This sub has been referenced by major news outlets all over, it's seen as a very very good source of updates. Sort by "new" to get the most recent posts first.

Warning: they don't hold back from sharing distressing images/videos - the thread about the chemical attacks was particularly awful. Beheadings/executions/whatever, it's all there - all of that stuff is tagged NSFW or NSFL so it's easily avoided.

 

[rynnor]

nice updates, thanks. There doesnt seem to be any hard evidence yet. What intrigues me is we care about this parituclar set of human rights violations and not those happening in other places.

Also how are chemical weapons outlawed yet the US and allies field various phosphorous weapons, napalm etc.

Also how are chemical weapons a no no but weapons that create shrapnel designed to work itself in legal.

Cluster weapons that leave dozens of sub-munitions as an ongoing threat to civilians, land mines etc. etc

Do as we say dont do as we do.

 

[Raven]

No intervention, so if it turns out he did use them he knows he can use them again quite happily. Cameron tried to rush it through for a doggy treat from Obama.

 

[BloodOmen]

BREAKING NEWS

The UK government has lost the vote on Syria by 285 votes to 272.

 

[TdC]

heh, the US will have a fit

 

[caLLous]

The US won't give a shit. :\

 

[BloodOmen]

The US won't give a shit. :\

If you look carefully at that picture you can just make out George W Bushes hand up Obamas arse.

 

[Chilly]

Well hopefully parliament will get a decent briefing from the foreign secretary later and will vote to stay the fuck at home.

Thank fuck for Parliament, is all I can say.

 

[Aada]

Murica don't need any other country to sort this out, they flew the majority of sorties in Libya, and would have done most of the work like they always do.

Balkans 1990s they flew most of the 38,000 sorties.

They have everything needed in the area to get this done if they want to get involved, huge naval fleet including 2 aircraft carriers and 4 destroyers.

 

[BloodOmen]

Lol how did I miss this?

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/puti...e-against-saudi-arabia-if-west-attacks-syria/

"A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria."

"According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia."

 

[Embattle]

All rather pointless anyway, considering some of the stuff they wanted to wait for such as a UN report and the UN security council.

 

[SawTooTH]

Parliament paralysed into indecision by the spectre of Iraq is interesting. Lets face the facts UN weapons inspectors were successful in Iraq by not finding evidence for WMDs, so lets see if they find evidence of military grade dispersal agents that wouldn't be available to the rebels making stuff in a bath.

Evidence like that could be actionable but to what effect??

 

[Embattle]

What is this fascination with Britain's place in the world, it seems one of the top questions reporters like to ask.

 

[Gwadien]

Lol how did I miss this?

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/puti...e-against-saudi-arabia-if-west-attacks-syria/

"A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria."

"According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia."

Dah fuck, how can Syria be worth -that- much to Saudi Arabia? :S

 

[Zarjazz]

What is this fascination with Britain's place in the world, it seems one of the top questions reporters like to ask.

We used to own most it at one point, seems like we still haven't got over the fact we had to give it all back.

 

[DaGaffer]

Dah fuck, how can Syria be worth -that- much to Saudi Arabia? :S

Yeeeeah...I wouldn't be worried too much about an article from that pillar of journalistic credibility, the "EUTimes".

 

[Gwadien]

Yeeeeah...I wouldn't be worried too much about an article from that pillar of journalistic credibility, the "EUTimes".

2nd to last link is from the Telegraph...

 

[Embattle]

We used to own most it at one point, seems like we still haven't got over the fact we had to give it all back.

I've always been fascinated with empire and seen/read a lot on the subject but I think the whole thing is so over played, typically by the media and some politicians.

 

[DaGaffer]

2nd to last link is from the Telegraph...

And that's the only credible bit in it. Could I see the Saudis and the Russians cooking up deals? Of course. Could I see Russia ordering a "massive military strike" against Saudi? Of course not. Apart from anything else, with what? The Russians don't have the force projection capabilities of the Americans. They could immediately go nuclear, but that doesn't seem very likely does it? And short of that, they have no carriers, not much a fleet at all really, so unless Iran gave them a free pass (as well as Azerbaijan, which isn't too unlikely in their case), and then they invaded Iraq or Kuwait, how would they even get to Saudi?

 

[DaGaffer]

We used to own most it at one point, seems like we still haven't got over the fact we had to give it all back.

See below

I've always been fascinated with empire and seen/read a lot on the subject but I think the whole thing is so over played, typically by the media and some politicians.

This whole post-colonial "Britain's Place" argument seems to exist in the heads of about half a dozen newspaper editors, and a few politicians worried that losing our seat on the Security Council means we're not in the big boy's club any more. There may even be some real actual downside for us plebs if we become no more important than say, Denmark, but I'm not sure if anyone's ever really quantified that other than thinking they might get fewer shopping trips to New York and Yacht invitations from Saudi Princes and Oligarchs.

Ask the average person on the street why Britain is always in the thick of these global crises and I guarantee you'll get a hundred different answers, most of them mostly wrong.

 

[rynnor]

Ask the average person on the street why Britain is always in the thick of these global crises and I guarantee you'll get a hundred different answers, most of them mostly wrong.

The reality is 'because the US wants around so its actions don't appear completely unilateral.' - our infamy as a colonial power also deflects criticism in a useful way.

 

[Tom]

I think ed milliband is more interested in his political image than he is about doing the right thing. I'm glad we're not involved but labour clearly didn't want to be seen as the heirs to Blair.

 

[Embattle]

Cameron didn't think it through well enough and Ed is a weasel, just another few days in politics.

 

[SawTooTH]

I think ed milliband is more interested in his political image than he is about doing the right thing. I'm glad we're not involved but labour clearly didn't want to be seen as the heirs to Blair.

Sorry he just looks and sounds like Wallace.