FH news Steven Hawking reverses opinion on God!

[old.Tohtori]

Pro tip:
Click the number on the right of the thread title it lists the the number of posts by each user. If Toht is in the top two its not worth reading. There is one exception to this rule, if Edmond is one of the top posters, it is always worth viewing.

Here's a pro-tip; STFU. No one needs your baiting. Might be a high number cause i have to answer 5 different people, taking eachothers posts as things i said(because others siad so) and claiming their little views that have nothing to do with what is said.

Scouse; nothing magical still. I STILL never said praying/faith/belief heals, or gives a bike, or does anything like that.

There's no gauge for measuring hope(etc), prove it if there is. You saying "it is so measurable" is not proof.

It also doesn't matter what you pray to as the action gives the result. Praying/belief does give hope, strength etc. It's a given, it's real, you admitting it or not.

As real as a friends support and as little a placebo as a friends support. Unless you hink a friends support is a placebo, in which case it's as much of one.

Try to post something concrete instead of a glorified "Nu uh".

 

[Raven]

Sitting there preying may give you hope but it wont ever give you what you hope for. Getting on with it yourself and sorting your own life out may give you what you hope for eventually. What use is hope when what you hope for never happens?

 

[Jupitus]

If there was a fucking god he'd nuke this fucking thread

 

[yaruar]

The belief in Santa is obviously real, as is the belief in God. Obviously.
.

Santa is real, he must be, he touched me in my special place and said he would give me presents if I had a feel of his rough brown sack.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Sitting there preying may give you hope but it wont ever give you what you hope for. Getting on with it yourself and sorting your own life out may give you what you hope for eventually. What use is hope when what you hope for never happens?

Same can be said then about family support, friend support, willpower and so on.

All just placebos and bullcrap that do nothing, right?

Or can someone show me how to measure the hope given by family, or the hope given by prayer and how often they work?

What people don't seem to grasp is that prayer/belief/faith are just as effective as family/friends/other bull when someone has belief. Can help you quit smoking, get through rough times and so on. That's a fact.

 

[Scouse]

Who's ignoring posts now Toht...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Answered everything you put forward, you should try it.

If your two cell atheist brain can.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Who truelly cares? What happend to tollerance of other people and what ever they want or dont want to believe?

 

[nath]

Who truelly cares? What happend to tollerance of other people and what ever they want or dont want to believe?

I'd defend to the death the rights of people to believe whatever ridiculous bullshit they like. However, I'd also defend to the death the right to call it batshit crazy and explain exactly why it's batshit crazy . Respecting all peoples right to exist and believe what they like is a good thing, respecting all *beliefs* is absurd, not all beliefs are worthy of respect.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'd defend to the death the rights of people to believe whatever ridiculous bullshit they like. However, I'd also defend to the death the right to call it batshit crazy and explain exactly why it's batshit crazy . Respecting all peoples right to exist and believe what they like is a good thing, respecting all *beliefs* is absurd, not all beliefs are worthy of respect.

Then again, right to do so or not, calling someone something over religion, belief, color, race, choice of drink, way of hair, shaving style or choice in mother that they hump and with that motion trying to convert them to option B or C...is still, ultimately, being a dick

I prefer the leave it be option, when it effects their life.

In ANY situation; if you want to snort cocaine 'till your rectum bleeds, your call.

Respect + freddyshouse is not compatible though

 

[nath]

Then again, right to do so or not, calling someone something over religion, belief, color, race, choice of drink, way of hair, shaving style or choice in mother that they hump and with that motion trying to convert them to option B or C...is still, ultimately, being a dick

Interesting that you lump colour and race in with those things. There's a clear and distinct difference between things that you choose, as they reflect your personality, and things that you do not - such as race. It is not OK to have a go at someone's race as it doesn't say anything about them other than who their mother was. With everything else, it's an active choice (to whatever extent) and therefore it's entirely reasonable to criticise. never mentioned converting - just criticising. No idea is sacrosanct.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah heard that preach before too. It's still being a dick if you're not kidding.

Critisizing and converting aren't too far apart when you're actively ridiculing, mocking, looking down and so on at someone who does something you don't.

 

[nath]

Yeah heard that preach before too. It's still being a dick if you're not kidding.

Critisizing and converting aren't too far apart when you're actively ridiculing, mocking, looking down and so on at someone who does something you don't.

Well it entirely depends on what that person is doing/believing. Looking down on someone who believes it's OK to beat women is pretty alright in my book. Plus, it's not like I'm walking up to random people in the street saying "your (religion/belief/choice in beverage) is shit", I'll criticise someones attitude and belief system if they're willing to get in to a discussion about it. If their belief is particularly nasty (like racism etc) then I'll quite happily offer my opinion irrespective of whether they welcome it or not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well it entirely depends on what that person is doing/believing. Looking down on someone who believes it's OK to beat women is pretty alright in my book. Plus, it's not like I'm walking up to random people in the street saying "your (religion/belief/choice in beverage) is shit", I'll criticise someones attitude and belief system if they're willing to get in to a discussion about it. If their belief is particularly nasty (like racism etc) then I'll quite happily offer my opinion irrespective of whether they welcome it or not.

So the level of critique and ridicule, AND the level of how ok it is to do, depends on your choice of things?

So for example, if you think it's ok to critisize religion and i say it's ok to critisize fat people, it's equally valid?

Because if that's true, then it's equally valid AND non-valid to critisize religion(or anything).

Which kind of removes the whole point of "It's ok to critisize x", because it's up to your personal taste.

In any case, the point still stands on it being dick'ish behaviour and converting IF you do it with ill-will, malicious intent and so on (which discussing and such is not ofc).

Oh and i do want to point out that i did say i mean this with things that don't harm others, racism and wife beating would be a nono in my book too.

 

[nath]

So the level of critique and ridicule, AND the level of how ok it is to do, depends on your choice of things?

Yes of course it does. I choose that racism is a terrible fucking thing and absolutely right to criticise - even when it's harmless (yes there is such at thing). I choose not to criticise the belief that we should be nice to puppies because, well, that's a good idea.

If you're saying that it's not OK to criticise at all, then that includes things like racism and sexism. Oh wait, you're OK with criticising them? Oh look - it depends on your choice of things too!

It's only dickish behaviour in certain specific contexts. If I were to bust in to a church on Sunday mass and say "all you lot, you're full of shit, religion is bullshit!" then I'd be a dick. If I end up in a conversation with someone and he believes that unbaptised babies go to hell/purgatory I'm going to tell him that he's talking shit and why.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I didn't say it's wrong to critisize at all, but being a dick about it and critisizing has a big gap between them

It's dickish behaviour if your only intent is to ridicule, mock, and so on with ill intent.

That's when it becomes converting also.

As an example you can see it around here; try starting a discussion on benefits of religion and you can bet there will be ridicule, mockery, dick'ish behaviour and so on about. That isnt' discussing and critisizing.

Or if for example two people are discussing different bikes in a bar and you start off, mroe or less with, "Bikers are fags." Dick'ish behaviour.

But good that you agree that, for example, critisizing religion is just like "how much you like cheese?" where it's only an opinion and as such, proportional to the attributes of rectums

 

[nath]

I didn't say it's wrong to critisize at all, but being a dick about it and critisizing has a big gap between them

It's dickish behaviour if your only intent is to ridicule, mock, and so on with ill intent.

That's when it becomes converting also.

As an example you can see it around here; try starting a discussion on benefits of religion and you can bet there will be ridicule, mockery, dick'ish behaviour and so on about. That isnt' discussing and critisizing.

Or if for example two people are discussing different bikes in a bar and you start off, mroe or less with, "Bikers are fags." Dick'ish behaviour.

But good that you agree that, for example, critisizing religion is just like "how much you like cheese?" where it's only an opinion and as such, proportional to the attributes of rectums

I never mentioned ill intent, or *just* mocking - that's something you've invented to argue against a point that I haven't made. You do that a lot.

As for the rest of your comments, you may find this wikipedia article helfpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument

 

[Jupitus]

If I close this thread will I be a god? Leaving it open makes me feel like satan

FFS... haven't we done this a million times already?

 

[nath]

FFS... haven't we done this a million times already?

Perhaps, but the conversation has moved on to something slightly different now...

 

[old.Tohtori]

I never mentioned ill intent, or *just* mocking - that's something you've invented to argue against a point that I haven't made. You do that a lot.

As for the rest of your comments, you may find this wikipedia article helfpful: Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because i bring a point across, it doesn't mean i'm claiming you to say something or be X. I didn't claim you only mock, i stated that ill intent and mocking etc IS dick'ish behaviour.

That's why you might think i do it a lot.

And that's why your link isn't apt.

 

[nath]

Just because i bring a point across, it doesn't mean i'm claiming you to say something or be X. I didn't claim you only mock, i stated that ill intent and mocking etc IS dick'ish behaviour.

That's why you might think i do it a lot.

So you're employing straw man arguments and accusing others of taking it the wrong way when they're pointed out?

 

[old.Tohtori]

So you're employing straw man arguments and accusing others of taking it the wrong way when they're pointed out?

Err, no, i'm saying that i didn't do what you claim.

I didn't claim your opinions is X or that you were talking about mocking and ridicule.

If you say;

"I think critisizm is ok"

and i say

"If it's to ridicule, mock and use illwill, then it's dick'ish behaviour"

that doesn't mean i'm claiming you to say otherwise, it's just a comment on the topic with my own pov on it added.

If you think i do X and i don't, then ofcourse you're taking it the wrong way. Would you prefer an alternate word to be used for thinking i do X?

 

[nath]

It's a bullshit tactic, you're never explicit in the fact that you're not referring to my initial point. Additionally, if it's not something that I've brought up then it's an utterly useless retort to my initial statement and it only goes to muddy the conversation with misunderstanding. Something which you seem to enjoy.

 

[Trem]

Believe in god or santa or jebus or the tooth fairy or anything at all if it stops you living your life as a complete ****, thats up to you, just don't expect the people who don't to understand.

There is no god apart from within yourself but if it makes you a good person run with it.

Honestly if you see a goldfish die do you think it's on it's way to another life with clouds and bacon and Kit Kats, NO! It will get flushed.

BUT if Jebus makes you realise that what goes around comes around then fair play, this life is hard and shit and harsh and if you can make it nicer for someone else on this journey to the soil then Jebus is your friend.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's a bullshit tactic, you're never explicit in the fact that you're not referring to my initial point. Additionally, if it's not something that I've brought up then it's an utterly useless retort to my initial statement and it only goes to muddy the conversation with misunderstanding. Something which you seem to enjoy.

Oh for f...i don't have a tactic, how aoubt that being a problem with you?

If you think a discussion is only "this point vs the other point", with no chance of people offering other opinions or POVs, or add anything else to the discussion, then you're not discussing.

And i'm rather clear when i say "your x", if you take EVERYTHING said as personal accusation, again, not my problem.

I've seen this a lot though, think it's a british thing or some such(as i have rarely the problem with the EU peeps); taking -everything- as personal insult/anti-opinion.

Do i have to start using 20 disclaimers after every post, just so you can feel nice?

 

[Trem]

Believe in Jebus Toht/Nath ITS THE ONLY WAY!!$E$1

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm actually more of an omnitist

Yeah i know it's not a term, basically it means that there's some(more or less) truths in every religion.

 

[Trem]

I'm actually more of an omnitist

Yeah i know it's not a term, basically it means that there's some(more or less) truths in every religion.

Agreed.

Be nice to people or they will fuck you over one way or another, quite sure Jeeblar said that to a prostitute or something.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Something like that, though he also said "turn the other cheek" which kind of makes things imbalanced when revenge comes to play.

Though he may have meant "When others hit thee, moon them."

 

[Trem]

Something like that, though he also said "turn the other cheek" which kind of makes things imbalanced when revenge comes to play.

Though he may have meant "When others hit thee, moon them."

If someone hit me I would set fire to a bible then blow the ash into their eyes (all 3 of them).

Fuckers, how dare they hit me while I'm wearing a crucifix and glasses and children