FH news Steven Hawking reverses opinion on God!

[nath]

When you're in a back and forth in a discussion and you retort to something I've never said, it's merely common sense to say "I know this isn't what you were saying, but.." otherwise it naturally WILL end up in confusion and argument. You can try and shift the blame on to me taking it wrong but it's so clearly an issue with you as it so frequently happens with *YOU*. Look at how many people bitch about your arguing style.

YOU YOURSELF even worked this out and took a 'sabbatical' or something from the forums for a while. Sorry mate, but you can't argue/discuss for shit.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes 'cause quite clearly, others always say "I know this isn't what you said..." and never offer other opinions, or off-topic posts.

No, that never happens with anyone else.

About me doing a retort to something you never said, it's not a retort, it's an addition to the discussion, a pov, an opinion. That doesn't automatically mean it's an argument against you.

I did notice some fault in my posting, but after a while of being more careful with what was said, i noticed it didn't change others responses at all and as such, why should i change if it makes no change

I said elsewhere; i can have a nice discussion with some members, with others it's a 10 page marathon, so by all logic the fault is not with -just- me.

 

[Trem]

Lets all believe in the god of carpet and love each other and not argue anymore, its what Steve would want.....the ****.

 

[nath]

Yes 'cause quite clearly, others always say "I know this isn't what you said..." and never offer other opinions, or off-topic posts.

No, that never happens with anyone else.

About me doing a retort to something you never said, it's not a retort, it's an addition to the discussion, a pov, an opinion. That doesn't automatically mean it's an argument against you.

I did notice some fault in my posting, but after a while of being more careful with what was said, i noticed it didn't change others responses at all and as such, why should i change if it makes no change

I said elsewhere; i can have a nice discussion with some members, with others it's a 10 page marathon, so by all logic the fault is not with -just- me.

You responded to my post about criticising ideas by talking about dickish behaviour and mockery. It's absolutely painfully obvious that given the flow of the conversation, that naturally I would assume it to be a retort. It IS a flaw of your discussion style that you didn't clarify that point.

The fact that *some* people don't take issue with what you're saying makes no difference. It's clear that *many* people have issues with the way you discuss things, and these people don't typically have issues with everyone else. You're the common denominator. You REALISED THIS YOURSELF some time ago.

 

[Scouse]

So for example, if you think it's ok to critisize religion and i say it's ok to critisize fat people, it's equally valid?

Because if that's true, then it's equally valid AND non-valid to critisize religion(or anything)

I think nutters and fatties are fair game IMHO


Either way - I don't post on forums to have people tell me how great I am. I post on forums for (amongst other things) a challenge to my views. Differences of opinion and all that. So I think getting uppity when someone calls you a nutbar because of your religious beliefs on a forum is kinda missing the point of forums:

FFS... haven't we done this a million times already?

But it brings relief to my utterly shitty existence?


And nath, chill man, it's Toht!

 

[Calaen]

oh my, my eyes are bleeding. I have to say ignore was working a treat until all of these quotes

There are folks out there who just believe in something and don't take all the rest of it to seriously, and in doing this it helps them get through the day, whatever makes you happy as long as your not hurting anyone!

 

[old.Tohtori]

You responded to my post about criticising ideas by talking about dickish behaviour and mockery. It's absolutely painfully obvious that given the flow of the conversation, that naturally I would assume it to be a retort. It IS a flaw of your discussion style that you didn't clarify that point.

The fact that *some* people don't take issue with what you're saying makes no difference. It's clear that *many* people have issues with the way you discuss things, and these people don't typically have issues with everyone else. You're the common denominator. You REALISED THIS YOURSELF some time ago.

Blah blah blah, repeat yourelf long enough and your wish may come true

Fact is, it wasn't a retort, you took it as such and took a whole 3 pager to get annoyed by it.

*many* people don't take any offense to me posting, you just think it's many people who have a problem with me because YOU have a problem with me. Easier to stay in that herd of ignorant bliss. Safe and snug.

Afterall, you don't have to discuss things because YOU can turn the discussion into "toht is like this!" everytime you want to.

Note this FACT btw; 9 out of 10 times it's not me who goes into "toht is like this!". I stay on the topic and i don't go after people personally on other threads either.

You lot? Do.

Will anyone admit some fault? Never!

Oh and;

*many* believe in jeebus, *some* don't. Those *many* clearly have a mental illness and sheep mind right?

 

[Scouse]

To be fair to nath Toht, you do change your argument on a regular basis.

 

[Scouse]

Oooh. Just noticed this:

*many* believe in jeebus, *some* don't. Those *many* clearly have a mental illness and sheep mind right?

You don't honestly believe that more people are religious than not?

To be fair, you do come from another country, so it could well be true over there. In the UK it's a rare rare person who actually thinks jebus ever existed, for real.

And anyway, if you're going to have a "sheep" mind, you generally have to go with the majority whilst not checking facts for yourself, right?

 

[old.Tohtori]

To be fair to nath Toht, you do change your argument on a regular basis.

I actually don't, i may reply to other people and that will lead to off-topic, but i don't change my argument.

Like this thread, i haven't changed one bit about my opinion or argument, but like your initial replies, took it off-topic and when it does that, people think my initial post was somehow related to how cows are poked

I may have fault, but i'll be damned if i change my posting style when others haven't had the courtesy of checking what they do wrong, or how they could change their ways.

Also noticed a few other traits that are "common". Like the thing about taking things personally, people here also never admit if someone is right. You only take the parts out of posts which you can somehow take apart or insult, which is a bad thing because then you base the WHOLE post on that one line.

You don't honestly believe that more people are religious than not?

And anyway, if you're going to have a "sheep" mind, you generally have to go with the majority whilst not checking facts for yourself, right?

On first part; it was an example on how *many* are against me and *some* are not and how those *many* must have a mental illness

Second; That's quite right and if you look around, do you see many checking facts about my posting, or just going with the "ooh it's toht!" thing that a few, coc breaking, individuals started.

Yeah, i didn't start this way back when

 

[old.Tohtori]

I said this elsewhere and will post it here too;

From now on, i'll start putting disclaimers on all posts, just in case someone is A: too selfish to take it personally B: too silly to notice it's not a serious post or C: needs daddy to read a bedtime story.

Disclaimer; this rule may or may not apply to all members of the community as some members have a brain

(Though facts remain, people need to look at how they bring things off-topic and how they drag it into "toht is x" discussions )

 

[Scouse]

Chill man

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm chill, always am, if i get annoyed i'll be sure to make it show

 

[nath]

and how those *many* must have a mental illness

I've not said that, you've not explicitly said that I've said that but given the context of the discussion it flows that you're implying I was saying something about those who don't take issue with your discussion style.

Another straw man argument. Of course you'll deny it because using a straw man argument is a shitty tactic, it's like being called out as a hypocrite, no one would ever admit to that either. It's really quite amusing actually, you have the mind of a child.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Conviniently leave out the original post which had the "right?" in it, implying it's a question which you can deny or confirm

Nicely done, your usual twisting logic in play. While ofcourse ignoring all the things you can't deny.

You actually quote something that wasn't even towards you, but Scouse, so you take personally stuff i talk others to. Quite the problem you have there sonny

Yes you're right, you are amusing since you're so absolutely blind to your own problems.(no doubt your retort would be somethign like "pot kettle!" which means you don't have to actually address the issue).

 

[nath]

I'll respond to every part of that post since you seem to get twisted knickers when I don't.

I left out the original post because there was only one part I was interested in responding to. I didn't see any "right" in that post that I responded to, but that doesn't mean I have to correct every part of it because it's wrong, that's incredibly tiresome. As is this, I guess, just less so.

There's no logic twisting at all, you'd no that if you had a firm grasp of logic but you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't understand it.

You complain about me quoting something that wasn't towards me, then complain that I'm not responding to the entire message? You also suggest I take what you say personally, I don't see how you come to that conclusion. I'm responding to your messages and accusing you of low intellect and slim grasp on facts, just because I've got an insulting tone doesn't mean I take anything you say personally. It just means I think you're a tool and want to point out why I feel this.

I'm well aware of my own problems, I'm actually very good at self analysis (no anal jokes thx) it's just that you've yet to point out anything wrong with my posting style. If you'd like to attack my points I'll give you a hint of the direction to take - I'm insulting you rather than simply coming out with the facts. That's a flaw.

I've learned to come to terms with it.


edit: Incidentally, I've no problem agreeing with you when you're actually making sense. Case in point - the bike stealing thread. Also the Koran thread message that you just posted.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Maybe your problem is right in what you said, bit blind are we?

You did take a problem with something that wasn't aimed at you and ignored the post that WAS aimed at you. UIf you don't feel there's anything worth answering, don't reply at all. You did take it personally, as oyu posted earlier "It was a retort to my post!" when it waasn't.

Second; i've pointed out several falws in your posting style. To name one; taking it personally(as a retort or argument) when it's not. Another would be; taking one line of a post and ignoring the rest, then judge a whole post by that line.

Third; if you were good at self analysis, you wouldn't flat out say it's solely my fault that things go like they go on some occasions, because the facts state that it's not always happening, just when pieces X(me) and Y(some individuals) come together.

Fourth; if you've learned to come in terms with things you do wrong, why do you keep on bringing up things i do wrong instead of accepting that "x is x" and discuss a thing or not?

 

[Scouse]

To be fair nath, I admit to being a hypocrite.

Everyone is, to some extent

 

[Calaen]

To be fair nath, I admit to being a hypocrite.

Everyone is, to some extent

I'm a big fucking hypocrite

 

[nath]

Maybe your problem is right in what you said, bit blind are we?

You did take a problem with something that wasn't aimed at you and ignored the post that WAS aimed at you. UIf you don't feel there's anything worth answering, don't reply at all. You did take it personally, as oyu posted earlier "It was a retort to my post!" when it waasn't.

Second; i've pointed out several falws in your posting style. To name one; taking it personally(as a retort or argument) when it's not. Another would be; taking one line of a post and ignoring the rest, then judge a whole post by that line.

Third; if you were good at self analysis, you wouldn't flat out say it's solely my fault that things go like they go on some occasions, because the facts state that it's not always happening, just when pieces X(me) and Y(some individuals) come together.

Fourth; if you've learned to come in terms with things you do wrong, why do you keep on bringing up things i do wrong instead of accepting that "x is x" and discuss a thing or not?

The part I replied to may not have been directly aimed at me, but it was *clearly* referencing a part of the discussion you and I had been having earlier in the thread. Hence I took it and responded.

Again, no - I'm not taking it personally. The fact that you composed a message that, to any reasonable eyes, seemed like a retort to my initial point and I took it as such, does not mean I took it personally. Do you even know what it means to take something personally? I'm starting to not be so sure about this.

Not responding to certain points is not a flaw in posting style, it's the natural way a conversation flows. If you've made a point that I've not responded to and you feel particularly strongly about it, by all means return to it. It's natural that in a discussion certain aspects will be dropped.

As I say, if you want to return to them - bring them up. I've seen you use this complaint several times "you don't respond to the whole post" but I've never seen you say "you didn't respond to XX" which leads me to believe that it makes you think you've scored some sort of point by making me not respond, but you don't actually care about any specific point.

Plus, if you read my post again you'll see I did actually point out a flaw in my posting style - the fact that I insult you. It's unnecessary, but there it is. The evidence does suggest that it IS you that's at fault here, but you're not able to see it.

Finally, the reason I bring your flaws up is BECAUSE the interfere with the active discussion. I wouldn't say all this stuff and add "oh yeah and you hate Jews too!" because it's not relevant (unless we were talking about Jews). The flaws I've been discussing are the ones that actively impede a normal chat and derail threads like this. If no one responded to you and just ignored you then they wouldn't derail the thread so I suppose we/I are just as guilty but there you are.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i can't be arsed to go back and forth when everything is more or less a "nu uh" with you

Blame me, whatever helps you feel better about yourself.

Like i said, i can accept blame and act accordingly when others do the same.

 

[nath]

Good comeback.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Here's another thing you might want to consider;

I don't keep score, use tactics, try to win or in any way treat a discussion as a game to be won.

You saying i do may reflect more on how you see a dioscussion.

To me there doesn't need to be a winrar to a discussion, but that would require people accepting others views and not attack every point of it.

Do you feel that you are willing to accept my viewpoint, or are you always on the offensive towards my views?

 

[nath]

Very well, if you honestly say you have no tactics then I'll accept that.

I'm willing to accept any viewpoint if it is sensible, I'm absolutely not always on the offensive towards your views. It just so happens that frequently I find what you say to be absolute nonsense and feel compelled to respond.

What you said in the bike theft thread I agreed with for the most part. What you said in the Koran thread I agreed with for the most part, no argument has developed there.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Quite and i don't have any problem with people thinking i speak nonsense, i accept fully that i hold different viewpoints, morals, whatnot about things and i know that many people will disagree on it. I do hold the right to say it though, as much as anyone has the right to agree.

The problem i do have, and which causes a lot of these long threads, is that people bring the "tohto is x" into it and like i said, 9 out of 10, it is others who do it. And in many cases, that's the first and foremost point they bring into discussions (such as many have on this thread).

Also i'd like to point out what you said earlier about courtesy and "I know that's not what you said..." things, do show that towards my posts and it'll go a long way. If you see me saying "I think cows are martian", ask "Did you mean....?" instead of "You're saying..." and if i say "No i meant..." then accept that i'm explaining it and not changing viewpoints or moving goals.

I'm not a criminal mastermind who tries to win by any means, simply bringing my views into things.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also wanted to mention that people shouldn't take a stance before a discussion is started. Many see me posting and start with the preposition of "Oh no." Not claiming you do

This whole "toht is x", ironically enough, started a long while back in a werewolf game. The epiphany of arguments, and the ONE place where people should keep it in the thread.

It's not what kept the fires burning, but it did start the "toht is x" trend, which didn't help.

 

[nath]

Not claiming you do

Thankyou for clarifying that.

This whole "toht is x", ironically enough, started a long while back in a werewolf game. The epiphany of arguments, and the ONE place where people should keep it in the thread.

It's not what kept the fires burning, but it did start the "toht is x" trend, which didn't help.

I've never taken part in a Werewolf game and after the very first one (that was on General) I've never read any either so I'm not part of that trend. I respond to your points that I think display false logic because that's a bugbear of mine. That's all.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I've never taken part in a Werewolf game and after the very first one (that was on General) I've never read any either so I'm not part of that trend. I respond to your points that I think display false logic because that's a bugbear of mine. That's all.

Yeah didn't intend on claiming you did, but part of the reason i may go off the deep end is the pushing, which comes from a lot of anti-toht, which in return makes me go off the topic and makes people like you taking the flak too.

It's a cycle really, that started a long while back and should've ended a longer while back.

But, dicussions like this do help, on both sides and maybe one day we can say "It's because of Scouse is x!" instead

(Disclaimer; i'm not serious Scouse)

 

[nath]

Well to be fair, Scouse has been talking an awful lot of shit in the Koran thread.

 

[Scouse]

FUCK YOU BUDDY!