SotL - Who they really are?

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- Pathfinder -

Guest
Interesting thread. Apparently we have some support in the Albion population ;)

As for us being elitist, that, as all things, is a subjective opinion. Do we form groups with less than 8 people? Yes, and frankly I can't see why it'd be a problem - as previously stated tanglers are - crap - XP in 8 man groups past 45; you're better off with tree groups. This obsession with 8 man groups came with retail; in BETA I was in 8 man groups four times (yes, that's four times, count 'em). This was largely due to the lack of people generally, but it was the way people XPed; past 25 I never had more than five people in a group other than for RvR. Somehow 8 became a holy number with retail.

Do we conduct guild only raids? Of course; this is why we exist - when we first formed the guild, the idea was to be an independent raiding (both PvE and RvR) guild, which would be considered an Achiever guild in other games. We aren't a RP guild, we don't spend much time doing casual "exploration" runs; we act :) Or "achieve", which sounds nicer. People might view this as elitist, but it's what we do. We could invite others, but this would 1) cause an inevitable delay, and 2) there would be a drop issue. Fun as it can be at times, the primary reason for raiding LB is to get drops, not entertainment, and as I highly doubt our reputation would soar when invited people received no drops, we might as well not bother.

Having restarted my cleric on Prydwen, I had to bludgeon my way up. I'll readily admit that I grew frustrated, and annoyed, often, when my groups didn't perform as expected. Even so, I'd like to believe I contributed something teaching all those people the fundamentals of xping. When you're used to people who can handle their class, it can be straining to play with paladins who have no clue as to how aggro control works, minstrels who have to be prompted for PS, clerics who continously top off etc. Not an exscuse for abrupt behaviour, but it's an explanation. In hindsight, I could probably have handled it better, and probably will once I have time for some alts.

What I dislike the most is the rampant moanings behind our backs, mostly generalised. The day these people grow some spine and can come with specific, valid complaints I'll take them seriously - until then I'll ignore them. These people remind me why I originally left Albion, and I find them moderately repulsive, so to say. Personally, I tend to be abrupt in tight situations - the scars of leadership and all that, cough. That's who I am, though, and people are welcome to direct their moanings to me, etc.
 
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LunarDarkShadow

Guest
If I may add my two penneth worth to this thread........

Back when I was in the level 30's , I was of the opinion that you should always offer spaces to people in a group, and that a full group was the best group. This was also the best strategy for doing things like pygmy goblin autos, pikemen and later, tanglers.

I too thought it was selfish and inconsiderate for groups to refuse people entry based on xp expectations, and I had my doubts about SotL's tactics in that respect.

However, at level 44, my opinion had changed. I realise now that I just didn't understand what they were doing. I was in a tangler group of just five people the other night, and , although it was a little more scary, the xp was so much better that I am now convinced that I wont be needing a full 8 group ever again.

I'm not known for being a power-leveller or even a fast leveller, but even I have to admit that the difference in xp between 5 people and 8 people is huge.

At the levels we were at (43 - 46) we just didnt need 8 people.
In fact, 8 people would have been too many.

Our problem in Albion is that there is really only one place where a group can rack up xp fairly quickly at higher levels, that's the tanglers or the trees, and there are now so many people in their middle 40's that the camp spots fill up quickly and many people are asking for a group down there.

Its understandable that someone, seeing a group with less than 8 people will be upset when they are refused entry to it, but one needs to be on the other side of that equation to really understand it.

I didn't then, I do now. It's not an SotL tactic, its an xp tactic, and, believe me, when you see how slowly the bar moves in the 40's, you need all the tactics you can get.

So, in the future, apologies in advance to anyone who gets refused entry to a group that I'm in. It wont be personal, but it will be practical and necessary.
 
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Ottar

Guest
SotL you bastards, It's all yer fault! How rude of you to pick the wrong realm! As if there aint enough bloody lakes in Midgard? ;)

Ottar
 
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- Pathfinder -

Guest
Originally posted by Ottar
SotL you bastards, It's all yer fault! How rude of you to pick the wrong realm! As if there aint enough bloody lakes in Midgard? ;)

Ottar

:p
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
Hey! I saw a blue-con SotL this weekend! I took a screenshot so people would believe me. :D

-G
 
P

- Pathfinder -

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Hey! I saw a blue-con SotL this weekend! I took a screenshot so people would believe me. :D

-G

Oh, how they mock us! :p
 
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Danya

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Hey! I saw a blue-con SotL this weekend! I took a screenshot so people would believe me. :D

-G

Who was that? :eek:
 
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Glibbin!

Guest
SoTL fellas

I hate SoTL, for one simple reason im a middie and everytime i die in RvR i see a SoTL cloak on the back of the killer.

GG guys :D

(PS, Let the dwarf go next time ey ? :)
gr33333tz fly out to coren!#!¤!#¤ and niar ...the 2 top Glibbin-farmers in entire Albion.
 
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Danya

Guest
Hmm might have to go farm me some Glibbin. :D
You probably won't see an sotl cloak though, I wear black for stealthing. :)
 
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Eleasias

Guest
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Turamber

Guest
Originally posted by LunarDarkShadow


Our problem in Albion is that there is really only one place where a group can rack up xp fairly quickly at higher levels, that's the tanglers or the trees, and there are now so many people in their middle 40's that the camp spots fill up quickly and many people are asking for a group down there.

...

So, in the future, apologies in advance to anyone who gets refused entry to a group that I'm in. It wont be personal, but it will be practical and necessary.

Everyone is entitled to play the game the way they want, as long as it falls within the games set parameters and takes notice of the CoC. So if people want to hunt with less than 8 people that's fine.

However I am very pleased to be able to say I reached level 50 without ever pursuing such methods myself. Getting lots of xp is nice and all, but not - in my book - by snubbing people when there is space in the group.

If everyone were to xp that way when would infiltrators get groups? When would scouts get groups? And yet both classes are very necessary to Albion in RvR.

If we are thinking about the good of the realm, as opposed to what is good for us, with lots of people in the 40-50 level range there is more need than ever before to share the hunting spots -- not clog them up with mini groups.

Also with more people in the group there is more opportunity for socialising and getting to know your fellow players -- or even, God forbid, some roleplaying :)

But, like I said, no one is wrong and no one is right. However I'm living testimony to the fact that small groups are NOT "necessary".
 
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old.k70

Guest
Originally posted by old.Turamber

If we are thinking about the good of the realm, as opposed to what is good for us, with lots of people in the 40-50 level range there is more need than ever before to share the hunting spots -- not clog them up with mini groups.

If we are thinking about the good of the realm in terms of leveling, it's better to have serveral small groups instead of just a few full ones. You don't clog spawns up with mini groups. There is always enough pulling space, only restricting thing is the spawn rate of the mobs which doesn't change with the size of the group.

Originally posted by old.Turamber

If everyone were to xp that way when would infiltrators get groups? When would scouts get groups? And yet both classes are very necessary to Albion in RvR.

I leveled that way as an infiltrator.

The main problem is that quite a few people don't know how to set up xp groups and then just blame others when they won't group them for some reason. If you don't want to refuse people at your late 40ies you can't do tanglers - and setting up a tree group is not that easy as creating a small gobo one.
 
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-Najwa-

Guest
MuPPeTs!~!~!

Well maybe every single fecking alb would have 4 lvl 50 chars if you muppets didn't spend every wakeing hour of you lives flaming sotl and other individuals on this fecking sad little forum ~~
 
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old.ondor

Guest
hehe i dont get it why hate sotl...

from my point of view if someone hasnt done something for you
and you havent done something for him
it ok!


only 2 thinks i hate about sotl
1)That high lvl peeps leave their guild just to join sotl...

2)lvl restrictions they have to new members

...but at the end i dont really care... its your guild u do it the way way u like..
and finally i dont get the point of this post

a guild image is not mesured by words but by actions...

and last... role play is for nerds (to keep the flame on)
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
Sotl cant really be blamed for other highlvls wanting to join us, thats their decision not ours. We play the game our way and if other people also wants to play that way then why should they stay in a guild where they cant do that?

On the lvl restriction. Why would we want a lvl 30 in our guild when the rest of us is 45-50? The person wouldnt be able to do anything on the raids we go to, the person wouldnt be able to xp together with other sotl except alts, so neither that person nor us would benifit from that
 
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Danya

Guest
Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
On the lvl restriction. Why would we want a lvl 30 in our guild when the rest of us is 45-50? The person wouldnt be able to do anything on the raids we go to, the person wouldnt be able to xp together with other sotl except alts, so neither that person nor us would benifit from that

Speaking from experience here (I was level 1 in sotl when most were 45+), Gombur is right. It's pretty disenheartening when you can't group with your guild except the odd alt that happens to be on.
 
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old.ondor

Guest
.... i agree that those are true
i just dont feel its good...(personal opinion)
but i hardly believe u dont take the 35- coz he wont find anything to do


thats all
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
When I came back to prydwen after my Exc experience I wanted to join sotl (I had allready talked with Coren a whole lot) so what did I do? I lvled my ass off and first joined them when I was lvl 43 or so and I could mostly contribute cause Im a minstrel (I.g powersong and speedsong) but look at the fact the lvl 30 wont be able to hit any of the mobs we're hunting, he wont be able to hit doors on keep raids and most mids we're opposing are lvl 50 so if someone wants to join us they just have to lvl
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
Of course, that raises the question, that to get to L45+, you're not going to do that solo, and will need a guild for quite a bit of that distance.

What then? You drop a guild who's helped you get to L45? Sure you guys can say you don't "steal" people by inviting them, but by saying, we're not interested in <45, means that you're not willing to put the effort into creating new recruits. Almost like you expect the rest of Albion to train your recruits for you, and you reap the reward?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, nothing personal. Just tossing some thoughts around.

;)

-G
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
I got to lvl 43 by grouping with other players not with sotl so it is possible
 
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old.Revz

Guest
I don't think this forum is the place to critique our guild policies to be honest Brannor.
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
Ok, were you in a guild before you joined SotL?

And as for it being possible without grouping with SotL, doesn't that then give rise to the next thought. You got all that way without them, and then they take you, yet you've never grouped with them...how does that recruitment policy work? Surely they would only take people that they've grouped with, but then, they don't group with non-SotL, which means they can't test new people... (Nice little circle that one... ;) )

If you never grouped with them before, that means they didn't put any effort into getting you to L43. Fine, I don't expect them to powerlevel anyone, but to not invest any time in your levelling seems a bit exploitative to me. Do they offer some form of compensation to the guild you left? Or just a "Thanks for getting him to L45." or nothing?

What about taking on some lowbies, and training them? Every guild needs new blood, I just don't believe in the vampire approach. :p

Remember, nothing personal, I'm trying to better understand you guys.

-G
 
P

- Pathfinder -

Guest
We don't invite people; they ask us :) You could call it "stealing", I suppose, but if someone asks to join us, he/she is obviously not at ease in his/her current guild, right? We've never specifically stated that we only want 45+ characters; this is basically a myth based on the levels of the people we tend to accept for trials. Numerous lower level people have been recruited in the past though (think I was around 30 when my latest Albion incarnation "rejoined", and Dannyn was what, level 1? :) ), but that's mainly when the person in question is "known" to us, through previous characters etc. As a raiding guild, we basically need members to be of a sufficent level "to be of use" so to say, which means recruiting is largely restricted to people who are in a position to prove themselves during said raids. It is also heavily class prejudiced; we need to maintain a class balance within the guild, and so specific classes stand a higher chance to become accepted, logically. Lower level people, therefore, ARE better off in other guilds; if they're happy there then there's no reason for them not to stay later on; we don't pimp them, after all :)
 
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old.Revz

Guest
Put another way, it is none of your business. If you want to find out how we deal with recruits apply to join us.
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
Originally posted by old.Revz
Put another way, it is none of your business. If you want to find out how we deal with recruits apply to join us.
Can we run a documentary? "Camelot Geographic presents: Brannor applies to SotL". ;)

Thing is. I don't know any of you. :p Not the type of person to apply to join a guild of people I've never grouped with nor know. Don't disagree with the class based requirements. Still think you should train some of your own...

:m00:

-G
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Ok, were you in a guild before you joined SotL?

And as for it being possible without grouping with SotL, doesn't that then give rise to the next thought. You got all that way without them, and then they take you, yet you've never grouped with them...how does that recruitment policy work? Surely they would only take people that they've grouped with, but then, they don't group with non-SotL, which means they can't test new people... (Nice little circle that one... ;) )

If you never grouped with them before, that means they didn't put any effort into getting you to L43. Fine, I don't expect them to powerlevel anyone, but to not invest any time in your levelling seems a bit exploitative to me. Do they offer some form of compensation to the guild you left? Or just a "Thanks for getting him to L45." or nothing?

What about taking on some lowbies, and training them? Every guild needs new blood, I just don't believe in the vampire approach. :p

Remember, nothing personal, I'm trying to better understand you guys.

-G


I wasnt in any guild though I had several offers put sotl was the one I wanted to join mostly due to Coren being there and most of the other people I had encountered in rvr when I was playing midgard.
And yes the reason why I didnt join other guild was that I didnt want to stay with them till Ii was lvl 43 and then screw them over
 
P

- Pathfinder -

Guest
The problem of "training our own", is the fact that we keep a cap on the number of people we want. Most of SotL levelled together, so we brought ourselves up, so to speak. As people leave DAoC, we need to replace them, and we can't go recruit a level 20 to replace a lost 50. As we don't want to expand the guild endlessly, and don't want a number of low levels who continously have to group outside the guild, this is how it works.
 

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