Sorry Hibs looks like you're no longer officially the underdog realm :-)

[Puppet]

they could, but they are busy whining ><

Read my signature; making a reaver at the moment; level 44 now and will see with my own eyes how they perform :O

In the mean-time I ofcourse expect you to see the counter-side and fighting 2+ reavers bombing everything coming close to them (or better; everything they approach)

Or do you know deep in your heart its overpowered but pretending its not therefore creating self-esteem for yourselves claiming its down to skill :O

 

[Dumle]

too much to quote..

Yes that was one casters baseline nuke that was lower value, sorry forgot, what about all the other casters, albs have alot of them.
(Edit. sorry 2 casters baseline, forgot cabba have same... I just woke up give me a break )

And as for not having room for a frian as soon as it turned to darkageofcastalot, bs.. hibs nuke cold/heat mids nuke cold 99% NOT taking a friar is gimping yourself, that is letting yourself take 25% more damage/nuke and leaving yourself in a big disadvantage, but hey, its your choice.

 

[Bone_Idle]

where exactly has it got them?

You mean whining like "randoms" did for 3 years pre NF?
Or you mean high rr which in some weird way I guess, is the end of daoc? (in turns of what you can 'achieve')

But you're telling me everyone not running in a gank grp (or just preffered keep/tower fights) pre NF was playing the wrong game? As they're apparently playing the wrong game now, not liking the keep thing...?

So technically if everyone thought like this there'd only be gank grps playing at the time NF hit? (as OF wasn't rly about keep taking etc)

Its got them:-

No relics.
Quitting left, right & center.
Having to resort to camping their own bridges.
Lots of threads on these boards about how they dislike NF.


And yes... I am saying the gank groups that were playing pre NF are playing the wrong game now if they are still expecting 1fg vs 1fg stuff now, because of the realm war map and the hordes of albs roaming.

But then that is my own opinion of how NF looks to me. Everyone might not agree but then thats why we have discussion boards innit.

And Aldrick has said after my quote that he kinda agrees and thats why he's going to WoW as well.



See ya there (WoW) thats what i say (if we play the same server).

 

[Garok]

And as for not having room for a frian as soon as it turned to darkageofcastalot, bs.. hibs nuke cold/heat mids nuke cold 99% NOT taking a friar is gimping yourself, that is letting yourself take 25% more damage/nuke and leaving yourself in a big disadvantage, but hey, its your choice.

Because there were hardly any friars about .. maybe 1 or 2 online @ lvl 50

 

[Equendil]

Yes that was one casters baseline nuke that was lower value, sorry forgot, what about all the other casters, albs have alot of them.
(Edit. sorry 2 casters baseline, forgot cabba have same... I just woke up give me a break )

Well, cabbies and sorcs = all alb 'mages' which was the subject, not elementalists who don't have a lifetap.

And as for not having room for a frian as soon as it turned to darkageofcastalot, bs.. hibs nuke cold/heat mids nuke cold 99% NOT taking a friar is gimping yourself, that is letting yourself take 25% more damage/nuke and leaving yourself in a big disadvantage, but hey, its your choice.

It didn't turn into casterland all that long ago, and the period I'm referring to was prior to that.

Not that albs have gained slots in their groups mind you, got to drop something to make room for a friar, which is a good way to get another bunch of smartass comments about group setups. Get a minstrel ! Get a reaver ! Get a cabby ! Get a cleric ! Get another cleric ! Get a sorc ! Get a friar ! Get a pally ! Get a theu ! Get a merc ! <yawn>

Better idea, leave albs decide what's good for them, we *can't* fit everything we'd like in a group.

 

[daoc_xianghua]

So you saying mids suck because the gankgroups in mid think they are uber and dont need to talk to other ppl and do things with them? Not like there is many gg:s left in mid, but i can only speak for BO and we all share the same view (more or less atleast) Keepfights and zerging is just boring and thats why we try to do that as little as possible, sometimes we do them anyway but we try to stay away from keeps as much as possible just because we find it boring, not because we think we are too uber to speak with realmmates.

Ofc relics would be nice to have but the cost to have them is too large, having to defend keeps every day just ruins the fun with rvr for us whats the point? Especially since it seems like there is a large number of albs that loves zerging and keeptakes and who can blaim them with their classes.

then you obviesly dont try hard enuff if i would lead a group i would totally ignore keeps on all costs. either the defenders get their coward asses out of it or they can sit in there forever. personally i´d rather log for the entire evening than doing even 1 keep fight
the only way to get open field RvR again is to make keepstuff as boring as possible for all the campers (they wont sit 6 hours in a keep when there is no1 to kill)
but why do i care tbh

playing cards > DAoC atm anyways

give instanced PvP zones kkthx!

back to Warcraft III till then =P

 

[Derric]

The BD normally gets in, since if RR5 is up, then they can be hard to stop, but ML8 + TWF will annoy, but they will not acheive on their own what the reaver bomb is acheiving.

Well, it's just 350-400 dmg less you're missing ;o

 

[Puppet]

Well, it's just 350-400 dmg less you're missing ;o

And the insta full hp heal :O

 

[Derric]

And the insta full hp heal :O

Yeah, but being a bonedancer, having DI up+good healers helps, I did bomb before RR5, so I know it works, but it's risky.

 

[Marchus]

1 reaver can work very demoralising in practice tho. Ofcourse a few survive; but if 1 peep kills 20~ people in a zerg in a blink of an eye; surely its possible ressing up etc but its still shit.

Also in those zergfights I rarely see 1 solo reaver. I see Jordie, Stalky and a few others I dont remember the name of.

Well, BL stuffs only effect 16 people in the area, so it's hard to kill 20 in solo. And I am soloing at Bleedbridge, and if there is a zerg, I use bomb. And sometimes I go solo, if I can find a zerg, tho mids/hibs not that active recently -/, tho there was a zerg, but I was going in a reaver group -). This happened 7-8 times, that I am going with other reavers -p.

 

[Jeriraa]

Of course reavers are nasty, but I think mids/hibs should try more often to do almost the same thing, stack TWF and stuff. ;o

Show me the Mid class that has IP, TWF and can become a Banelord! Then tell me again we should try the same Albs do with reavers.

Even IF we had such a class... could you at least to _try_ imagine the impact of 2 realms using this tool? 1 realm using it is already bad enough.
Whereever a fight is shown on the realm map you can be sure to see AoD pop up 10 minutes later and send people back home. I think Mids using it too would mean that Albs would stop most RvR activity too. But thats ofcourse just theory since our Banelords cant get TWF + IP.

PS: I dont even have a problem with stacking TWF's atm. The main concern are the Banelord abilities. They deal out a massive amount of damage and punish the user with a massive amount of health loss. Reavers having access to IP completely negates that punishment.
Yes, Berzerkers can do the same but everybody knows that just Agony Transmission doesnt kill a zerg. Its the TWF that finishes the job.

 

[SkarIronfist]

To use the ML8 ability as a BD, you need good healers (Nod to Baldgrim and Krafiks), since I never warn them I will use it. Since the pets take 10+ secs to get your health back up.

 

[Lejemorder]

Of course reavers are nasty, but I think mids/hibs should try more often to do almost the same thing, stack TWF and stuff. ;o

its not the stacking TWF, not the Banelord abilities, not SQ its em all when u use em together there make a reaver causing havok.

yea hibs can do the same, what we need, is 1 pbaoe, 1 warden, 1 banelord abd 1 druid lets say we get TWF and BL abilities off now we need a pbaoe to finish, but a ML 1 BL can make him caster slower then my dead granny, we can ofc take a eld with VP3.

 

[Puppet]

Yeah, but being a bonedancer, having DI up+good healers helps, I did bomb before RR5, so I know it works, but it's risky.

And it doesnt ofcourse have the same effect; since (besides the risk of u dying) u dont 'dish' the additional 400-700 damage. You right that other classes (with TWF and Banelord --> Bonedancer) can do this too.

However especially the SQ is REALLY good this patch; especially against casters. If u crunch some numbers: BL2 = 150 hp on a caster. BL8 = 450 hp on a caster and SQ is an additional 400-700 (approx; with relics and modded 50 SR + avg. crits if u got WP) so this can dish 1000-1300 hp to a (buffed) caster with 1500 hp. 1 tick of TWF is then alone to kill a caster; where without SQ u need 3-4 more ticks = time to heal.

And the obvious advantage of not needing DI/Insta up on the healer(s) tho thats easily solved with some coordination like Ventrilo / macro-spamming in groupchat.

BTW really high RR champ can do nasty things too with BL2+BL8 + Wrath of Champion 3 + IP1/2 + ST3 but it requires really high RR and it still does less effective damage since Wrath of Champion is rather p00

 

[Derric]

And it doesnt ofcourse have the same effect; since (besides the risk of u dying) u dont 'dish' the additional 400-700 damage. You right that other classes (with TWF and Banelord --> Bonedancer) can do this too.

However especially the SQ is REALLY good this patch; especially against casters. If u crunch some numbers: BL2 = 150 hp on a caster. BL8 = 450 hp on a caster and SQ is an additional 400-700 (approx; with relics and modded 50 SR + avg. crits if u got WP) so this can dish 1000-1300 hp to a (buffed) caster with 1500 hp. 1 tick of TWF is then alone to kill a caster; where without SQ u need 3-4 more ticks = time to heal.

And the obvious advantage of not needing DI/Insta up on the healer(s) tho thats easily solved with some coordination like Ventrilo / macro-spamming in groupchat.

BTW really high RR champ can do nasty things too with BL2+BL8 + Wrath of Champion 3 + IP1/2 + ST3 but it requires really high RR and it still does less effective damage since Wrath of Champion is rather p00

I'm sorry, but now you're just talking bullshit. 700 damage on SQ? Aye, and I get hit by melee bards for 600 every 1 seconds.

 

[Derric]

Show me the Mid class that has IP, TWF and can become a Banelord! Then tell me again we should try the same Albs do with reavers.

Even IF we had such a class... could you at least to _try_ imagine the impact of 2 realms using this tool? 1 realm using it is already bad enough.
Whereever a fight is shown on the realm map you can be sure to see AoD pop up 10 minutes later and send people back home. I think Mids using it too would mean that Albs would stop most RvR activity too. But thats ofcourse just theory since our Banelords cant get TWF + IP.

PS: I dont even have a problem with stacking TWF's atm. The main concern are the Banelord abilities. They deal out a massive amount of damage and punish the user with a massive amount of health loss. Reavers having access to IP completely negates that punishment.
Yes, Berzerkers can do the same but everybody knows that just Agony Transmission doesnt kill a zerg. Its the TWF that finishes the job.

Show you a mid class that can get TWF/Banelord? Ok:Bonedancer.
I can't think of a single *valid* reason why you can't use a couple of bonedancers to kill off a zerg, but I'm sure you can.

(I don't think a lot of reavers actually have IP either tbh, considering you need 5L5 just to get TWF3 and Purge 2)

 

[Jeriraa]

Show you a mid class that can get TWF/Banelord? Ok:Bonedancer.
I can't think of a single *valid* reason why you can't use a couple of bonedancers to kill off a zerg, but I'm sure you can, bloody doomsayer.

Ya, talking about a couple of Bonedancers aint you? So basicly you're saying its ok that we need 2-3 Bonedancers + Healer support to do what you can do by pressing 4 buttons?

You should stop bullshitting yourself and admit it: Reaver Bomb adds on EVERY and ANY siege done during the last weeks are what is killing the RvR on this server.

But gratz on RR6 anyways Mr "IR Skilled and not FOTM". Not gonna discuss this further with you. Aslong as your E-Penis is growing everything will be fine for you.

 

[SkarIronfist]

I suppose we could. But most BDs of a rank high enough, tend to run 1 to a group. Don't often see 2 BDs in one group.

 

[Derric]

Ya, talking about a couple of Bonedancers aint you? So basicly you're saying its ok that we need 2-3 Bonedancers + Healer support to do what you can do by pressing 4 buttons?

You should stop bullshitting yourself and admit it: Reaver Bomb adds on EVERY and ANY siege done during the last weeks are what is killing the RvR on this server.

But gratz on RR6 anyways Mr "IR Skilled and not FOTM". Not gonna discuss this further with you. Aslong as your E-Penis is growing everything will be fine for you.

I'm saying that you *can* do the same if you want to, but obviously you find it more amusing to throw insults and whine than to actually try do something.

(Oh, and it's 5 buttons)

(And another "oh", regarding the FOTM comment. Did you know I deleted an almost RR7 infil to make a thane in the times when savages were *the* thing? Doesn't that tell you something?)

 

[Derric]

I suppose we could. But most BDs of a rank high enough, tend to run 1 to a group. Don't often see 2 BDs in one group.

Need to do like some of the reavers, and make group just for bombing stuffs.

 

[Zebolt]

Ya, talking about a couple of Bonedancers aint you? So basicly you're saying its ok that we need 2-3 Bonedancers + Healer support to do what you can do by pressing 4 buttons?

You saying 3 BD's using TWF, Negative Maelstrom and AT is worse than 1 Reaver using TWF, Soul Quench and AT? xD

 

[Jeriraa]

obviously you find it more amusing to throw insults and whine than to actually try do something.

Well, sometimes I do. Usaly thou I prefer discussions. For those new to it I will explain what a discussion is...

step 1) You state your opinion.

step 2) You let the oposition state their opinion.

step 3) You and your oposition bring forward arguments to fortify your opinion and to explain your point of view.

step 4) You come to a conclusion.


Step 1 on FH has 80% chance to be mistaken as a whine. Usaly I dont get further than that before the pointless flames and mud throwing starts. Sometimes I manage to reach step 2. (Wich mostly depends on luck thou since I dont have much impact on who posts here and what.)
I usaly try to stay reasonable but sometimes its passion taking over when the bullshit is getting too thick and I get dragged down to the level of the odd FH poster.

 

[Jeriraa]

You saying 3 BD's using TWF, Negative Maelstrom and AT is worse than 1 Reaver using TWF, Soul Quench and AT? xD

No I'm not.

But going by utility, survivability and effectivness the odd Alb group with 1 Reaver in it scores alot more than say a Mid group with 2 (or even 3) Healers, 3 Bonedancers, a primary nuker, a Skald and a Shammy.

I'm not saying Mids cant bomb a zerg.

I'm saying it should not be possible for any realm to do it.


Its like with nuclear warfare...
Country X has 2 100 Kiloton nukes. Country Y has 12000 50 Megaton nukes.
Thats a hell of a difference but when you think about it these numbers are pointless. Using 1 or 2 of these weapons might easily bring the end of the world as we know it.
Thats what is happening atm.

NF put focus on Keep sieges. Now siegeing keep became pointless (if not impossible) because there is hardly anything you can do to prevent the zerg bombing.
People who used to be fans of RvR now PvE during their playtime or even quit the game because of this!

 

[willowywicca]

NF put focus on Keep sieges. Now siegeing keep became pointless (if not impossible) because there is hardly anything you can do to prevent the zerg bombing.

Can't you just stand further apart...?

 

[Jeriraa]

Can't you just stand further apart...?

Do you want an answer on that?

 

[Shike]

((Should actually whine at GOA for beeing stupid to bring in 1.70 before reavernerf and lots of other fixes that actually was very necessary, I knew it, GOA knew it, loads of other knew 1.70 was pure shit and nothing else but shit, and yet they bring the shit live in EU. Just my PoV, it was a terribly bad decision.))

Anyhow, cant see a problem with running 3 BDs and bomb away really, selfhealing pets after AT, pop stacking TWF's.. and voila: deaded zerg if you have some decent CC along (cpl up TWF and AT with AoEstun and toss in a SM for the heck of it aswell... mids are gimp, right?

 

[willowywicca]

Do you want an answer on that?

Yes, there's plenty of area for people to stand at in keep offence so that the effects of bombs is minimal, in lord room defences ofc it's not possible, but my quote from you is of you discussing sieging, not being seiged, so lord room defence's aren't relevant. From an attacking perspective, you can almost always spread out a lot. And a bomb won't kill more than 2-3 people at most if you're properly spread.. Please do give your answer tho

 

[Sparrow]

But gratz on RR6 anyways Mr "IR Skilled and not FOTM". Not gonna discuss this further with you. Aslong as your E-Penis is growing everything will be fine for you.

This is probably one of the most retarded comments you'll ever see on FH.

Derric made an infil at release where infils where gimp. He then made a friar who have never been popular in groups. He deleted his infil (and friar) to make a thane (despite a lot of people trying to convince him to make a savage instead).

As for his reaver, it was made way before NF even came out on US, so you have absolutely zero excuse to call him FOTM.

 

[Boggy]

Yes, there's plenty of area for people to stand at in keep offence so that the effects of bombs is minimal, in lord room defences ofc it's not possible,

Once the TWF is placed, you are snared and generally either dead or nearly so and unbuffed because your buffers are dead before you get outside its area.

Clearly, if you move BEFORE TWF is placed, there is no way of knowing if you are going to be in the area or not. Equally clearly, the reaver will place it where it will get most people, so logically it is impossible for most people in the lord's room to escape its effect.

but my quote from you is of you discussing sieging, not being seiged, so lord room defence's aren't relevant. From an attacking perspective, you can almost always spread out a lot. And a bomb won't kill more than 2-3 people at most if you're properly spread.. Please do give your answer tho

This is not strictly true either, since most reaver bomb groups run with multiple reavers and can therefore cover a very large area. Chances are, unless the reavers place their TWF/Soul quench poorly, most attackers will be hit.

Spreading out can help reduce the impact of reaver groups, but it can't impact the situation enough to stop them being incredibly destructive, and most often fight winners.

 

[willowywicca]

This is not strictly true either, since most reaver bomb groups run with multiple reavers and can therefore cover a very large area. Chances are, unless the reavers place their TWF/Soul quench poorly, most attackers will be hit.

Spreading out can help reduce the impact of reaver groups, but it can't impact the situation enough to stop them being incredibly destructive, and most often fight winners.

I specifically said it was ignoring lord's room circumstances, so dunno why you described that, but I'll reply to this bit anyway

Treb range is atleast 3000( if I'm not mistaken, think it's more actually). thus standing safely around a keep while attacking with trebs you have 2*Pi*3000 (approximately 18000units circumference of circle)units to be standing on. That's just standing at treb range, you can of course be nearer or farther too. The maximumamount of that 18000 units coverable by a single twf is 500 (250 raidus, so 500 diameter). You can ofc assume you are only going to be attacking from one side of the keep, meaning 18000 units isn't realistic, while I would say about 25% is a feasible attack arc size if you spread, lets say you can only manage 10%, then you have an area of 1800 units to stand in. this will take 4 TWFs to cover. all placed to perfectly cover the area (very very difficult to achieve).

Now of course, when you factor in the fact people can be nearer than 3000 untis, and (for support types) can be further back.. it's more realistic to suppose that you'd need atleast 2-3 times as many TWFs to cover it all, that being 8-12 reavers.. which quite frankly has never existed in one place on this server. This is limiting the attack arc to only 10%.. you can spread more than that for certain. People like to stand together when sieging keeps, it gives a feeling of security. However it is that reason alone that they die, you do not need to be near each other(well, you should be near your groupmates, but even then you can spread a bit). The only people who need to be somewhat near together are people operating the rams, and their healers. And yes, they would probably not be able to avoid a bomb death, but they account for a very small amount of the average keep taking force. The radius of twf is really really small (250), it is *not* hard to be spread enough to avoid twf, and planting multiple twfs is not easily done since you cannot see where your friends have placed theirs.

It is also not hard to run out of twf, most it should do is 750 dmg (3 ticks, or if your bard is fast less, since he can use essence resist buff to change it to 170-180 per tick instead of 250) or more usually 2 ticks.