SOE: IRL cash for stuff OK as long as we get a cut. Mythic: yuck!

[York]

There is a game thats free to download and play but you buy all the stuff ingame for RL-cash
Game is called Project Entropia
seems to work but you have to be rich irl to get a high skill in the game. And patches and stuff have to be done real carefully, it isnt fun finding out that ur $2000 armor just been hit by the nerfbat.

I also remember Entropia head offices (i say head office, it was thier only office) getting raided because they didnt have a single licence on any of thier software.
Not a chance in hell they gonna get hold of my cc details.

As to SOE's new exchange, from what i understand it will be available on new servers or servers nominated for it so the customer gets a choice.

Anyone remember Anarchy Online's 'booster pack' the one which they described as a ground breakingly new to the MMORPG industry, it was sooo innotive (yawn) etc. It was a glorified patch and alot left because of it.

 

[Flimgoblin]

hotlinking doesn't work to gu:

http://www.gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20050425

 

[Flimgoblin]

Compare it to Magic cards (or any other trading card game). It´s the same thing.
Useless in the "real world", WotC can produce thousands of Black Loti at the producing cost of a Mountain, yet they decidede to make them rare and desirable by placing them in between a pile of useless crap. And guess what: people are paying insane prices for them to have them in their decks and if you´re lucky, you´re pulling one out of your booster that you´re buying for a pound (yeah, I know, Lotus is of print... just an example, you can replace it with any other top level card).
It´s the very same mechanism and you can find it anywhere, where certain items are rare and people are trying to collect them. If we´re trying to approach the problem from the "value of an item" POV, then we´re gonna bump into an entire world of "no real value" items.
I`m not trying to defend the idea, just pointing out that value can´t be measured solely by the points you mentioned.

and the black lotus was made thoroughly useless in a fell swoop of the nerf bat (banned it from tournament play)

ahh I remember when I had a black lotus, a couple of moxes and a gauntlet of might...

mmm shivan dragon in 3 turns

 

[Thorwyn]

mountain, lotus, channel, fireball

 

[Ssera]

you can't really compare this with magic cards though. If in 1 years time SOE shut down all their servers (for whatever reason) then you will have lost absolutely everything you paid for. The objects will cease to exist (assuming they already "existed" as we're talking about something virtual - but that's another debate).

With Magic cards, even if your card gets nerfed or they bring out another uber powerful card - you will still have it in your collection and even if one day they stop producing Magic cards you will still have it, the game won't stop and your rare cards will take on even more value as they progressively get rarer and rarer, especially in the eyes of collectors.

You cannot compare something physical to something virtual.

At the end of the day though I think it's up to the customer if they want to play on this kind of server or not. I won't be playing on it but if someone wants to spend their money on something virtual... let them.

 

[Thorwyn]

you can't really compare this with magic cards though. If in 1 years time SOE shut down all their servers (for whatever reason) then you will have lost absolutely everything you paid for. The objects will cease to exist (assuming they already "existed" as we're talking about something virtual - but that's another debate).

Of course you can... because physical things can also cease to exist for some reason. If you´re paying money for a card and your cat decides to eat it, you´ve lost everything too. The prices for cards are changing as well, depending on the latest errata etc.etc. Ok, the Lotus was a bad example for that, but take a card like Abeyance... people used to pay insane prices for it, then WotC released an Errata on the card and it´s now a 50 Cent card. The collectors value is just one aspect of the pricing of cards.

I see your point, but it´s still basically the same thing - at least as long as we´re not going into the virtual existance debate. The point I was trying to make is, that the value of an item can´t be calculated with a few parameters. Just like you said: if there are customers willing to pay, it´s their choice, just like it´s a customers choice to buy a piece of modern art.

 

[Huntingtons]

Of course you can... because physical things can also cease to exist for some reason. If you´re paying money for a card and your cat decides to eat it, you´ve lost everything too. The prices for cards are changing as well, depending on the latest errata etc.etc. Ok, the Lotus was a bad example for that, but take a card like Abeyance... people used to pay insane prices for it, then WotC released an Errata on the card and it´s now a 50 Cent card. The collectors value is just one aspect of the pricing of cards.

but in thousand years the card can be worth millions of [insert future money currency xD] whereas you will be really lucky if SOE still have the servers up with your 300000$ sword of mighty smiting d00m.

if you fail to see the difference why it cannot be compared...

(granted your cat does not eat the card - which isn't common among collectors)

then - what if i crack their servers and all their backups they might keep. Destroy every god damn 1 and 0. Who will pay for damages caused to the buyer? his insurance..?

or should be be albe to insure items bought virtually? you "own" them in that sence etc..?

 

[Thorwyn]

True, it´s unlikely that - in a thousand years - SOE Servers are still up and running. Does that mean that the 1´s and 0´s that you bought and that are stored on a CD are worthless as well?

Mate, I fully understand the difference between a virtual item and a RL item and I agree that it´s a pretty bad idea to sell virtual items because of the points you and the other people mentioned. My point here was, that people are paying money for all kind of useless and worthless crap that´s been given a certain value due to some circumstances. It´s not like they´re inventing the wheel there. I just want to point out that it´s been widely accepted as long as we´re talking about a piece of paper and as soon as we´re talking about virtual items, people go "omgwtfroflcan´tbelieveit".

 

[Huntingtons]

well, if you have the weapon stored on a cd it can be copied over and over and therefore is worthless ;> (as it's not the cd you bought but the 1's and 0's)

 

[eggy]

It's really quite sad, paying real cash for game items.

You have to ask yourself, why are you playing the game if you do things like that?

 

[lairiodd]

I realize its not a new idea - In fact, I remember hearing that someone bought an online island in an MMO for something like $12,000? - but it doesn't make it any better for SOE.

That was Project Entropia. In fairness the game was based on RL money being important. IIRC, the game is free to get and there is no monthly fee, but you can buy items from the game company. The guy who bought the island got to sell mining rights etc. This

 

[Sharma]

The thing is with this, its a hard decision to make, hear me out before going off on "Omgz u just want it easy!!!11".

On a lot of MMORPGs (FFXI, EQ2, WoW) there has been a rising problem with currency sellers, IE people who are paid to play the game, generate cash and sell it off for real life money, this has been going on for quite a while now and on some games FFXI being one in particular the economy is going haywire due to the currency farmers jacking up the prices of EVERYTHING.

Look at it this way, you have your own little farming spot, then a group of currency farmers pull up and farm there non-stop basically ruining the spot, if you try and get back at them something is bound to happen to YOU, the FFXI ones have now earned themselves a reputation of KILLING other players that cross them.

What can a developer d about this problem?

Ban the accounts? Thats good, only theyll just buy more and carry on.

Alternative: Put them out of business completely and ruining them.

Sound any better?

That was the approach of I think it was UO, from what ive seen/heard the being able to actually buy currency from the company hasnt had a majorly bad effect on the game.

If you were the developer and you were presented with this problem, how would YOU react? Banning the accounts? in turn putting yourself in an endless loop with the cash famers, or would you just make it so the company sells currency and puts the cash farmers out of th game completely?

Youre presented with a decision that will affect how the game goes from here on in, those who have no came across cash farmers will usually be the ones playing the ignorance card, those that do know what theyre like will know what my view is on about.

I would give it some thought before going out and trashing SOE.

 

[Malena]

The thing is with this, its a hard decision to make, hear me out before going off on "Omgz u just want it easy!!!11".

On a lot of MMORPGs (FFXI, EQ2, WoW) there has been a rising problem with currency sellers, IE people who are paid to play the game, generate cash and sell it off for real life money, this has been going on for quite a while now and on some games FFXI being one in particular the economy is going haywire due to the currency farmers jacking up the prices of EVERYTHING.

Look at it this way, you have your own little farming spot, then a group of currency farmers pull up and farm there non-stop basically ruining the spot, if you try and get back at them something is bound to happen to YOU, the FFXI ones have now earned themselves a reputation of KILLING other players that cross them.

What can a developer d about this problem?

Ban the accounts? Thats good, only theyll just buy more and carry on.

Alternative: Put them out of business completely and ruining them.

Sound any better?

That was the approach of I think it was UO, from what ive seen/heard the being able to actually buy currency from the company hasnt had a majorly bad effect on the game.

If you were the developer and you were presented with this problem, how would YOU react? Banning the accounts? in turn putting yourself in an endless loop with the cash famers, or would you just make it so the company sells currency and puts the cash farmers out of th game completely?

Youre presented with a decision that will affect how the game goes from here on in, those who have no came across cash farmers will usually be the ones playing the ignorance card, those that do know what theyre like will know what my view is on about.

I would give it some thought before going out and trashing SOE.

mm that sound as a intresting point of view Sharma

 

[Culanan]

Of course you can... because physical things can also cease to exist for some reason. If you´re paying money for a card and your cat decides to eat it, you´ve lost everything too. The prices for cards are changing as well, depending on the latest errata etc.etc. Ok, the Lotus was a bad example for that, but take a card like Abeyance... people used to pay insane prices for it, then WotC released an Errata on the card and it´s now a 50 Cent card. The collectors value is just one aspect of the pricing of cards.

I see your point, but it´s still basically the same thing - at least as long as we´re not going into the virtual existance debate. The point I was trying to make is, that the value of an item can´t be calculated with a few parameters. Just like you said: if there are customers willing to pay, it´s their choice, just like it´s a customers choice to buy a piece of modern art.

It's also a matter of intellectual property and copyright, whoever prints the cards has copyright on the material and intellectual property rights but you've paid for the cards, not the right to play the game.

MMO's are hugely intellectual property, you pay for the material of the disks/packaging and the right to play providing you abide by a number of rules but strictly speaking you own nothing, you pay to play and nothing about or on your character "belongs" to you.

The fact so much online trading of virtual goods occur and that game companies decry it whilst being unable to completely stamp it out is largely due to the scale of the problem (and thus the cost of dealing with it) rather than them having no legal ability to do so, courts and lawyers cost money, lots and lots of money.
It'll probably mean the broadness of a player base being watered down to a bunch of people with a lot of cash and everyone else pissed off and going to play something else, I have no idea how UO achieved equilibreum with their methods but I guess a lot hinges on implementation.

Still, I've enjoyed every moment of my time playing and would never pay more than the game/expansion/subscription to play, tis still cheaper per month than drinking beer

 

[Gengi]

I would imagine this is the major driver behind this change of heart,direction and general politician like thing. (this is a very old article so the amount of money will probably have increased since it was put up)
Think of Gordon Brown seeing an untapped £200,000,000 market he was not getting anything out of he would be shitting bricks thinking of a way to get his share.
If this succeeds and SOE make a reasonable amount of money from it, all of the companies who are now shouting sellout, traitors, scabs etc will find there own way to get on the bandwagon.
The only people who might lose from it, as it will be on separate servers to normal, will be the poor buggers in Moldova who are paid 3 bucks a week to play the games 12 hours a day.

Later