Sidi raid WEDNESDAY 20th Aug

[Falcor]

simple facts r guys daoc is based a LOT on rvr, tbh it makes me feel nice an fuzzy seeing a weapon some1 has one on one of my raids take down hibs or mids, now i will never retrict all weapons, but by restricting warlord ones to rr5, at least these, very good for rvr weapons will be used in rvr, or there is a lot higher chance there is, and maybe it will encourage ppl to rvr, get rr5 so they can lotto for them, and the more high rr ppl we have the more easier and fun rvr will be, rvr is a BIG part of daoc, and with this rule im trying to aknowledge the time ppl put in getting rr5 which is an achievement, also, it is true that rvrers do open DF for ppl, granted some of them are probably just zergers, but a LOT r not, and im not a mind reader,

look at it this way, u can spend 10hours farming gold, and buy a weapon , an rvr player can spend 10 hours playing rvr and have no more god then when he started,

DAOC, is a matter of give and take, im taking a little from lower rr's and giving more to higher rr, i dont think tbh its all that important over yes one or non weapons a raid...

no it was NOT thought up in my own mind, i aint stupid and i have thought about this very carefully before posting it...

Do u guys realise how many drops end up on alts, vaulted on chars never played (money pharming pallies) etc etc
i dont want to see this happen to the warlord weapons

theres a level 40 off mincer with a sidi sword using it in barrows ive heard of....another guy ive heard that just uses his for mob bashing, RVR is a BIG part of daoc for a lot of ppl, if it encourages ppl to make rr5 then its good, it makes our relic raids better, it makes general rvr better, ofc i realise its not going to give insta relics! but it will help....try not to think of it as the 0.32853856% or whatever u say difference, but the difference of maybe some ppl making an effort to go from rr4-rr5 in order to lotto for a drop should one come,

he dont drop caster staffs btw...

anyways, i aint a mind reader, believe me if u want , or dont so be it, im trying to do things to keep it fair, it is a compromise because high rr would like all weapons to be rr5 only, this is see as unfair, and yes i do have a lot of pms about it,

I am fed up of seeing drops sold immediatly, i dont mind trading of drops this is cool and fun, but to sell stuff ppl wanted right after raid is wrong, if i find ppl doing this i get drops back, but cannot always prove it, it undermines all the hardwork myself and the ppl who come do

the simple fact is, RVR is a big part of daoc, and these weapons can be used most effectively by experienced high rr ppl, rr is also a sign of rvr experience after all, i also think it is VERY unfair to call all rr high ppl mindless zergers, and its also unfair to call low rr ppl noobs

long post prolly my last on this issue, i think its all been blown out of proportion tbh

 

[Fagane]

With all respect Falcor, I disagre with you. I know a lot of RvR persons who go to Sidi just for the chance to get a drop becouse it will make them insta 4-5p richer while be with friends. Most RvR persons prefer crafted mw overcharged weapons above the Sidi drops.

I baught a Sidi staff for 4.5p from a RR6 player who got it 2 days before from a Sidi Raid.

But your rules on your raid, only do not expect of me to attend.

Fagane

ps: The remark of not helping with apok was dumb

 

[Falcor]

when u coem u accept the rules if u dont help with apoc u breach the rules and you will be banned.....sitting there wathicn gothers die is dirty

fagane also there is rr 1 ppl who sell drops rr2 ppl etc etc, i cant stop them all, its unfair for u to say remarks like that

btw who? fagane u moan about apoc drop and then have cheek to buy staffs lol and ppl call me hypocritical

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Falcor
simple facts r guys daoc is based a LOT on rvr, tbh it makes me feel nice an fuzzy seeing a weapon some1 has one on one of my raids take down hibs or mids, now i will never retrict all weapons, but by restricting warlord ones to rr5, at least these, very good for rvr weapons will be used in rvr, or there is a lot higher chance there is, and maybe it will encourage ppl to rvr, get rr5 so they can lotto for them, and the more high rr ppl we have the more easier and fun rvr will be, rvr is a BIG part of daoc, and with this rule im trying to aknowledge the time ppl put in getting rr5 which is an achievement, also, it is true that rvrers do open DF for ppl, granted some of them are probably just zergers, but a LOT r not, and im not a mind reader,

What are you trying to do now? Working on my emotions that I should be grateful if 'those RvR'ers' opened Darkness Falls so I can farm cash?

About the encouragement part: Perhaps a Sidi weapon will encourage a RR3 to RvR more, to become RR5 to utilitize it to its fullest. It's quite easy to turn around arguments based on absolutely nothing.

look at it this way, u can spend 10hours farming gold, and buy a weapon , an rvr player can spend 10 hours playing rvr and have no more god then when he started,

Perhaps he should go 10hours farming gold then. The reward for 10 hours PvE is gold (and drops), the reward for 10 hours RvR is RP (and bountypoints) and extra RA's.

What you basically wanna do is screw that system. 10 hours of RvR (and ending with RR5 in the end) with as reward an unlimited bigger chance on a drop then someone RR4.

DAOC, is a matter of give and take, im taking a little from lower rr's and giving more to higher rr, i dont think tbh its all that important over yes one or non weapons a raid...

LOL. What is more fair then giving and taking and do an equal chance? Why is it now 100% taken from RR4 and 100% given to RR5 in regard to that Apoc-drop? That's right, its not ' give and take' abit, it's give and take ALL regarding that 1 drop.

Do u guys realise how many drops end up on alts, vaulted on chars never played (money pharming pallies) etc etc
i dont want to see this happen to the warlord weapons

And how exactly does a RR5+ guarantee this will not happen with a Warlord Weapon? How many drops do YOU have in vault never intending to use? There's no guarantee a RR4 will vault it where a RR5 will use it. Because it has SQUAD TO DO WITH REALMRANK.

theres a level 40 off mincer with a sidi sword using it in barrows ive heard of....another guy ive heard that just uses his for mob bashing, RVR is a BIG part of daoc for a lot of ppl, if it encourages ppl to make rr5 then its good, it makes our relic raids better, it makes general rvr better, ofc i realise its not going to give insta relics! but it will help....try not to think of it as the 0.32853856% or whatever u say difference, but the difference of maybe some ppl making an effort to go from rr4-rr5 in order to lotto for a drop should one come,

Yeah or like I said the effort to go from RR4 --> RR5 when you have that weapon won. Again it's based on nothing and thus just as valid as your reasoning.

anyways, i aint a mind reader, believe me if u want , or dont so be it, im trying to do things to keep it fair, it is a compromise because high rr would like all weapons to be rr5 only, this is see as unfair, and yes i do have a lot of pms about it,

Fair = all people have an equal chance of getting the drop.
You're not doing that, so you made some silly rules on how to increase the chance the drops goes to a high RR who kept nagging you about it. Perhaps yourselves are bitter that you did not get something you wanted but a RR3 armsman or whatever.

I am fed up of seeing drops sold immediatly, i dont mind trading of drops this is cool and fun, but to sell stuff ppl wanted right after raid is wrong, if i find ppl doing this i get drops back, but cannot always prove it, it undermines all the hardwork myself and the ppl who come do

How? why? Why does trading a drop (trading in either selling or trading for something else) undermine your hard work? Does the weapon that dropped dissapear in the game? No. Does someone who sells it active use it? No, otherwise he wouldn't sell it. Once again argument screwed.

the simple fact is, RVR is a big part of daoc, and these weapons can be used most effectively by experienced high rr ppl, rr is also a sign of rvr experience after all, i also think it is VERY unfair to call all rr high ppl mindless zergers, and its also unfair to call low rr ppl noobs

Yes, we calculated that difference. I was told by you not to think in percentages but it is the only rational thing to do when you claim stuff like ' can be used most effectively by experienced high rr ppl.'

My RR4 friar cannot lotto but I got a RR5 caster and a RR5 druid. I think when you add that up you get someone RR6 if he sticked to one character. Playing multiple characters in multiple realms made me probably atleast as experienced as that RR6. But I am not allowed to lotto with my friar.

long post prolly my last on this issue, i think its all been blown out of proportion tbh

Well you had it coming when you introduced a rule like that.

Your opinion is clear, my opinion is clear. You will not change your mind, neither will I.

I got no problem with that, or personally with you or whatever. But it will mean I will not attend again because I dont agree with that rule.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Would also like to add:

it is a compromise because high rr would like all weapons to be rr5 only

Is not true. You should say:

Egocentric high RR would like all weapons to be:

RR6+ only if they're RR6
RR7+ only if they're RR7
RR8+ only if they're RR8

etc etc.

Why do you think they want it? For the greater good of Albion? Or for a bigger chance to get the drop themselves?

Don't be naieve (sp?) and think about that for a second.

 

[Falcor]

nice way to split my lpost into little bits each one making little sense on its own and comment on them puppet =/

 

[old.Ramas]

I am fed up of seeing drops sold immediatly, i dont mind trading of drops this is cool and fun, but to sell stuff ppl wanted right after raid is wrong, if i find ppl doing this i get drops back, but cannot always prove it, it undermines all the hardwork myself and the ppl who come do

As an aside, seeing them being sold is pretty much the only way to ensure drops are used regularly, as opposed to gathering dust in a vault.

Nobody pays actual gold to have a drop gather dust, but plenty of people are willing to lotto for just to get an item as a trophy though.

This is espiecially true of respec stones.

I am aware I'm in a minority on this issue though.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Falcor
nice way to split my lpost into little bits each one making little sense on its own and comment on them puppet =/

Show me one quote where I split it up wrongly and you comming out worse then you mean it and you got a point.

Fact is: You say alot of nice stuff and I agree with some. But alot of it is based on absolutely nothing.

Like saying it is likely that it will end up in vault of a RR6 armsman then in the vault of a RR3 armsman.

Or like saying it will encourage a RR3 to get RR5 so he might lotto for it. That's just as speculative as saying a RR3 will get to RR5 with that weapon because he can then fully utilize it.

Yeah I splitted it up, so I could comment on all the difference things you say in your post. You said alot ya know


Like I said: It is not something personal, I still respect your efforts organizing and leading the raid. But with that RR5+ rule you just crossed my line of what I consider honest and fair.

You will not miss me, 1 theurgist on 120+ people won't be missed. Neither will 2.

But what if ALL those RR5- boycot your raids you're planning to do in the month september? Would you still kill Apoc? Would you still have as much success?

I highly doubt it. So be loyal to all those RR5- people who helped making those Sidi-raids of you to a success and grant them ALSO an honest and fair chance on that uber Apoc-drop.

 

[thorwyntf]

I think it doesn´t help any side to continue a pointless discussion ad lib. As much as I agree with your arguments, Puppet, I also see, that it´s futile to insist on your principles. Actually I´m quite happy with the current rules. The rules are 100% clear, nobody can come to the raid and then complain about being tricked or about the rules not being clear. I still think that the rr5+ rule sucks, but hey, that´s how a compromise works and if this one apoc drop with it´s ridiculous 1,8% higher damage is really enough to keep the elitists happy, then go for it. We got a fair raid minus one drop and as a reward we´re no longer forced to argue against all those Kranes and Glottis´ and read their mindtwisting pseudo explanations and impertinences, then that´s a good thing. (tangent: Falcor.. as much as I agree with you that it´s lame to let fellow albs die in apoc room... after reading Glottis postings in the other thread, I really almost changed my mind there, simply because I can´t consider someone a "fellow alb" who´s talking and thinking like that about HIS fellow albs. /tangent)

So, I think the rules are ok at the moment. Now lets see if we can keep this compromise alive and running for some raids.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd agree with thorwyn in that the rules being clear makes it 100% better.

Still won't be going though (even if I did enjoy zerg-raids I'd probably not go now on principle, but who knows)

 

[Asha]

Well there is over 300 rr5+ on Excali, so it's I suppose it's possible. Silly, but possible.

Fact Is: He spends several hours a week getting a huge headache and only whines and flames for thanks. If you don't like his rules, then make your own raid.

It's not like he's setting the bar that high, rr 5 is not hard to get. I know that isn't the point, but still - it's not like he's saying rr7 or 8.

I personally think it's a good idea because I think rr5+ will actually use the weapon instead of selling on. If people are just selling on then why should we continue to go by class and spec?

I am not personally for this rule because I think raids should be guild based. If you make it guild based, then there is more accountability and people are less likely to go afk. You would get less people not listening and hopefully less bugged encounters. The drops would be sure to get use as a guild is hardly likely to allow someone to vault it. I am not saying this because my guild would get more - we usually have 1/1.5 groups for Sidi.

 

[skile]

A slow weapon is just as good in PvE as RvsR? Some guild concentrate on PvE, some on RvsR. Why should a PvE raid be adjusted to RvsR?

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Asha
Well there is over 300 rr5+ on Excali, so it's I suppose it's possible. Silly, but possible.

Fact Is: He spends several hours a week getting a huge headache and only whines and flames for thanks. If you don't like his rules, then make your own raid.

It's not like he's setting the bar that high, rr 5 is not hard to get. I know that isn't the point, but still - it's not like he's saying rr7 or 8.

I personally think it's a good idea because I think rr5+ will actually use the weapon instead of selling on. If people are just selling on then why should we continue to go by class and spec?

I am not personally for this rule because I think raids should be guild based. If you make it guild based, then there is more accountability and people are less likely to go afk. You would get less people not listening and hopefully less bugged encounters. The drops would be sure to get use as a guild is hardly likely to allow someone to vault it. I am not saying this because my guild would get more - we usually have 1/1.5 groups for Sidi.

It's not that simple. It would be if he was only holding his raids on weekdays, monday-thursday. But one of his raid is held on a Saturday. So it's not just to "organise" a raid, kind of hard to organise one on the same day as Falcors.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Asha
Well there is over 300 rr5+ on Excali, so it's I suppose it's possible. Silly, but possible.

Indeed. If you split up the 120 people going regular now to the raids you end up probably around 30-40 RR5+ guys (notice: I am guessing)..

But it's not relevant at all ofcourse. The raid is set for all (well... level 50), so the lotto should be like that too IMO.

Fact Is: He spends several hours a week getting a huge headache and only whines and flames for thanks. If you don't like his rules, then make your own raid.

It's not like he's setting the bar that high, rr 5 is not hard to get. I know that isn't the point, but still - it's not like he's saying rr7 or 8.

Nah, like I said:Nothing personal, I just dont see any justification in the RR5+ rule. Instead of saying: STFU Puppet, my rule or the high-way and faod (grosly spoking) he's actually trying to defend the rule and make silly excuses why the rule is valid. That annoys me perhaps even more. Because there's no real reason for that rule except big guesses (and greed, perhaps not by Falcor himselves but by alot of the people who are in favour of the rule)

I personally think it's a good idea because I think rr5+ will actually use the weapon instead of selling on. If people are just selling on then why should we continue to go by class and spec?

I think odds are a RR5+ selling it are as big as a RR3 selling it. I heard various rumours of Falcor having lots of drops in vault. I dunno that, I cannot look in his vault, neither do I care. But it makes you wonder where those rules are based on. I' ve also heard the selling of high level drops by high-RR characters.

I am not personally for this rule because I think raids should be guild based. If you make it guild based, then there is more accountability and people are less likely to go afk. You would get less people not listening and hopefully less bugged encounters. The drops would be sure to get use as a guild is hardly likely to allow someone to vault it. I am not saying this because my guild would get more - we usually have 1/1.5 groups for Sidi.

There is a guild-raid already organized by Pin. I think Falcor does good with his ' free to come raids' giving people who dont are in a (big) guild also a chance to lotto. I appreciate that and I am the first to admit Falcor did alot of good work on his past raids. And yes I attended to (quite) a few. Just that I dont like the new rule at all. And I can moan all night and day about it, but it wont help anything, I know that too.

So I just dont attend anymore to his raids until that rule is gone. I am a person of principles.


// EDIT'ed some for clarification.

 

[Falcor]

puppet what i say is based on what i think, what others tell me in pms on here in game etc, and tbh on my gut, what feels right

 

[thorwyntf]

lol

Did anybody here play any of those old RPG and adventure games back in the days on C64?
I mean games like Bards Tale for example, where you had to draw the worldmap all by yourself on checky paper. And sometimes, they had those endless dungeons where you came back on the right side after you left it at the left side, but since it was kinda hard to detect that, you sometimes kept on drawing the same map over and over.

This kinda reminds me of this discussion.

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by Falcor
btw who? fagane u moan about apoc drop and then have cheek to buy staffs lol and ppl call me hypocritical

Nope YOU are.

I do not care if people sell they're drop on barry, if a level 45 gets an uber drop, or if it gets used on item hunts. I think its even ligit to store the drops in your vault and horde it like a dragon

I just find your rules not fair, and so not acceptable for me to join you at this point.

Fagane

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Falcor
puppet what i say is based on what i think, what others tell me in pms on here in game etc, and tbh on my gut, what feels right

Yeah ofcourse, and I do the same.

And my guts says it is not right and not fair excluding the lower-realmrank players who did the same as a the higher realmrank players at the lotto.

Perhaps your gut and others tell you something different, but I dont call your RR5-rule fair.

If you think it's fair, so be it. In the meantime Iboycot the Sidi-raids till the rule has been removed.

 

[Asha]

we're talking in circles you mean


puppet I don't think so, simpley because a rr5 is MUCH more likely to have sc gear. Sure there are exceptions, but I would think cash looks more attractive to someone w/o sc armor than an uber weapon.

As for saturdays, well, there is always sunday.

As for greed... well nah, I don't buy that. It just nice to see these things being used. For example, when alpha got his uber sword some months ago I thought it was good. He isn't my friend and I never group with him, but it was nice to see a good player from Albion having the best weapon. Would I be happy to see Gunner get the best weapon for him because he's my guildmate? Sure. I would also be happy to see QS or Farek get a great weapon - not my friends or ppl I group with often but people who RvR alot and would beat on the Hibs/Mids with that weapon. It’s not just the extra bit that a RR5 can get out of it, it’s also the fact that they have demonstrated that they RvR a lot. Is PvE a valid choice in game? I guess, but why does it matter what weapon you use against DF mobs or whatever. Maybe it’s a RPing thing I just don’t get

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Asha
Fact Is: He spends several hours a week getting a huge headache and only whines and flames for thanks. If you don't like his rules, then make your own raid.

I agree, a lot of people are ungrateful and he gets a lot of flak for things that aren't under his control. He runs a very efficient raid. Shame people remember you for your lotto, rarely for the raid (and the people that win are always a lot quicker to praise than the ones that didn't, it's a human nature thing)

I personally think it's a good idea because I think rr5+ will actually use the weapon instead of selling on.

I disagree - I'd say it's just as likely that a RR5 will have a better SCed weapon and just want it for the glowy bits for showing off

I am not personally for this rule because I think raids should be guild based. If you make it guild based, then there is more accountability and people are less likely to go afk.

A lot less headaches for the organiser too

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Asha
we're talking in circles you mean


puppet I don't think so, simpley because a rr5 is MUCH more likely to have sc gear. Sure there are exceptions, but I would think cash looks more attractive to someone w/o sc armor than an uber weapon.

And what if that uber weapon happens to entirely NOT fit in your SC-template (very likely).

Then you have to redo your entire SC to get again as good as it was (all capped etc). Looking at the same or more costs as a RR2 who would win the item.

There's also a chance the RR5+ says: "Well.. I am doing ok at the moment with my current SC, guess I just put it in vault and when I need new SC with new items/jewelry I will make it around the weapon" .

As for greed... well nah, I don't buy that. It just nice to see these things being used. For example, when alpha got his uber sword some months ago I thought it was good. He isn't my friend and I never group with him, but it was nice to see a good player from Albion having the best weapon. Would I be happy to see Gunner get the best weapon for him because he's my guildmate? Sure. I would also be happy to see QS or Farek get a great weapon - not my friends or ppl I group with often but people who RvR alot and would beat on the Hibs/Mids with that weapon. It’s not just the extra bit that a RR5 can get out of it, it’s also the fact that they have demonstrated that they RvR a lot. Is PvE a valid choice in game? I guess, but why does it matter what weapon you use against DF mobs or whatever. Maybe it’s a RPing thing I just don’t get

In short (too afraid to split it up): Your opinion but absolutely not based on something rational. And why that is ok my opinion is based on something very rational: Fairness and an equal chance of ALL people to win the Apoc-drop.

I guess I dont really care if Farek bashes Mids with a drop of Apoc or a fine arcanium weapon crafted by the famous Weaponsmith Gunnerr spending countless hours perfectioning and sharpening the blade and turning it into the absolute masterpiece it is now. After that Simius looked into it and used his magic skills on the sword to imbue it with great magical abilities it has now, in the end the evil Alchemist Del putting an evil poison on it so it might inflict an effect on that poor kobold similar to being bitten by a snake.

 

[Asha]

^^

Like that


The only solution is guild raids. If your guild is too small, then make an alliance group.

 

[Falcor]

i do open raids cuz not everyone can come to guild raids, i know they r more work, hell i could do guild raids with little hassle, but i dont at least atm

if ppl dont start making an effort to lsiten and abey rules tho maybe i change to guild only :/ im getting tired of ppl taking advantage of them

 

[old.Ramas]

Guild based entry and lotto > all.

 

[Falcor]

Raid tonight 7pm english time DO NOT BE LATE if u late we finish late....

 

[dimerian]

Originally posted by Fagane
I totaly agre on what she says, and I am in the same position as she is.
Fagane

If Puppet is "she" - Im Elvis

 

[Fagane]

Originally posted by dimerian
If Puppet is "she" - Im Elvis

/em hopes she is delusional when she sees dimerian walking past with a guitar

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by dimerian
If Puppet is "she" - Im Elvis

My theurgist is the prettiest Avalonian chick in Albion FYI !

 

[samildanachh]

yyou say they r uber about the spd etc.
yet the apoc flail is 4.1 spd or summin, thats the same as other crafted flex weapons.

 

[samildanachh]

okie going to raid tonight
rr5 thing is gay but its prolly from people like krane begging falcor to make it like that.
sure itll be good fun on a weekday
hopefully get enough to kill all horsemen or die on apoc or summin