Shuttle SN41G2 Barebones System

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Ch3tan

Guest
okay I need some more info, mainly cause I'm too lazy to look for it myself, and partly cause its fairly helpful round here.

I wanted to get a p4 based shuttle, but then I wouldnt get onbaord nvidia gfx? If I wait a while are there any in the pipeline with better gfx? Where do you lot recommed buying one from?
 
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vofflujarnid

Guest
This system doesn't interest me. If it's with onboard graphic card then no thanks. *shrug* bottlenecks *shrug*
 
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Jonty

Guest
Ch3tan - As you rightly say, nVidia don't produce onboard graphics/audio etc. for anyone but AMD, so the Intel Shuttles are sadly lacking in the onboard graphics department. For most people this isn't a problem, since they buy a dedicated graphics card, but at least nVidia's integrated GeForce4 MX can actually run games at a playable pace, unlike Intel's Extreme Graphics chipset.

Anyway, none of this is really set to change any time soon. nVidia have no firm plans to produce Intel motherboards, and the people over at Shuttle don't seem to be in any rush to improve the integrated Intel graphcs, so waiting won't really help in this respect.

In terms of P4 Shuttles, the SB61G2 is arguably the best (it supports the new 800Mhz FSB and Hyperthreading etc), but the SB52G2 and SS51G v2.0 are cheaper, but obviously lack the the cutting edge features that are improtant both now and in the future. It all depends on your budget, really. If you can, go the SB61G2 and save up for a graphics card (it needn't be a particularly good one) as the onboard graphics won't cut it if you play games. The onboard sound isn't quite as good as nVidia's either, but it's not too bad (5.1 channel surround sound support).

As for stores, you might want to check out the usual places: eBuyer, Overclockers UK, MicroDirect etc. Of course add to that list your own favourite stores. You may also be interested in Enigine who will build you a a bespoke Shuttle PCs for a small markup on what it would cost you to do it yourself.

vofflujarnid - nVidia's GeForce4 MX integrated graphics are actually very impressive, far more so than other such solution available. The only real downside is that with them switched on, you can't utilise DDR 400 (PC3200) memory. But in terms of bottlenecks, there doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

Clowneh! - Please be nice :(
 
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Ch3tan

Guest
Okay, I think I might just gor my first amd system.

The costs of getting a intel shuttle just seem too high.

Saying that, I was looking at the sng45 rather than the 41. I know this doesn't have the built in graphics, but does the higher fsb speed justify the cost of having to go and get a seperate gfx card?

p.s. I am sure this thread will never die.
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
Sorry :)

I was planning on spending £500 on my shuttle. This will be the most I have ever spent on a computer (last time i spent about £150 and took my old parts out). Is it worth spending this much on a shuttle and making it my main computer for games and whatever or what?
 
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Embattle

Guest
Nice edit there Ch3tan, I thinking that you must mean the SN45G model and you should get this one if you have no plans to use the onboard gfx.

Clowneh, it can do everything you want it too ;)
 
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Ch3tan

Guest
The only issue I can find with the sng45 is that it looks ugly compared to the nice brushed aluminium of the 41 and the 61.

Figuring out my budget at the end of the month, might still plump for the intel one, especially as I have to get onboard gfx with the 45 anyway. If I'm very poor though, I will get the 41 :)
 
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vofflujarnid

Guest
As a dedicated gamer, GeForceMX cards don't interest me very much. They were designed for programs graphic related applications such as Photoshop. They are lacking vertex- and pixel shaders so their rendering power in games with advanced graphic engine isn't good. They also have much less core- and memory clock than other graphic cards. But as for people with low budget and want a decent card, GeForceMX is fine.
 
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vofflujarnid

Guest
I was answering Jonty, clowneh. And just as jonty says: Be nice
 
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Embattle

Guest
vofflujarnid I don't see your point since both the SN41 and SN45 have AGP slots for more powerful cards.
 
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Ch3tan

Guest
Then you should have read the other 9 or so pages of this thread, as I did last night, and read the reviews linked to from it :)
 
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danger

Guest
I'm very close to buying SN41G2 and a new XP2600+ tbred (i have a feeling my 2000+ palamino will get too hot :p)...

One thing concerns me conflicting reviews about noise levels... the lowest level of noise is one of the highest priorities to me. My current setup makes a fair bit of noise even with a zalman cooler (stupid generic PSU :p) anyway I'd read in a number of places not least this thread that the shuttles make very little noise... i just recently read this though:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20030131/shuttle-09.html

that seems to say the exact opposite, that they're quite noisey.

I've been wondering whether to go with a shuttle or one of those antec sonnata cases which should really cut the noise levels. The compact nature of the shuttles, however will really suit me for lugging back and forth to uni.

So can anyone shed some light on just how noisey the shuttles are? I know it's an extremely subjective thing to ask but any help would be greatly appreciated :)
 
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Ch3tan

Guest
That review says that the fans speed cannot be changed, this is incorrect. The speed can be changed from the BIOS and changes with system heat anyway. May have been on a BIOS update though.
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
You see them heat pipe things? Do those mean that you don't have to buy a heatsink and fan? Would they fit into this shuttle thing?
 
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Embattle

Guest
Look at the picture below:

inside1.jpg


All the parts required for the Shuttle I.C.E. heat-pipe come with the shuttle case, including main heatsink (big metal block in middle), heat pipes(4 out of right side), fan(Inside rear metal case, below power cable, where heatpipes are going).
 
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Ch3tan

Guest
Just looked on the MESH site, they sell Shuttle systems pre-built. They don't give enough details via their site though so I am going to e-mail them and see if I can customise a system that their site doesnt allow.

I have heard bad things about MESH here, but they offer payment plans, and I would rather pay in 6 months.
 
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smurkin

Guest
theyr purty easy to assemble yourself ch3tan, the manual makes it really easy and the heatsink spring think means the heatsink fits on cpu real easy :cool: (I think microdirect do some prebuilt or custom built shuttles...but afaik they dont do credit)
 
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danger

Guest
Just wondering, is the only difference between the SN41G2 and the SN45G2 the onboard graphics?

If so am I presumably better off getting the 45 as I'll be using my Ti4200 with whichever one I'm using, I can't really see much difference in price, eBuyer only stock the SN41G2 and it's cheaper than the SN45G2 from aria... that seemed slightly odd.

Is the SN45 quieter/cooler at all?
 
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Jonty

Guest
Hi danger

The main differences between the the SN41G2 and the newer SN45G are:

  • The SN45G utilises the revised nVidia nForce2 Ultra 400 chipset (which supports 400Mhz FSB (i.e. DDR400 RAM and/or AthlonXP 3200+ ready)) whereas the SN41G2 is 'limited' to 333Mhz FSB.
  • The SN45G lacks any integrated graphics, whereas the SN41G2 has a GeForce4 MX chip built-in.
  • The SN45G utilises the older 'G' case design, whereas the SN41G2 utilises the newer 'G2' case design.

There are some other small changes, but these are the most prominent. It should be noted that the SN45G is also aimed more for overclockers, due to the hardware and BIOS options it ships with, when compared to the SN41G2.

You might want to check out MicroDirect who, for this weekend, are selling the SN45G £175.08, the SN41G2 for £182.13 and the special edition black SN41G2 (a.k.a. SN41G2B) for £195.58. All prices include VAT but exclude the £8 courier charge. If you order over the weekend your purchase usually goes through on Monday and, all being well, the item arrives on Tuesday.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. The integrated graphics on the SN41G2 has a small fan on top to keep it cool. Obviously this isn't needed in the SN45G, so in theory the latter should be quieter, but I'd be extremely surprised if you could tell the difference, since the fan in question is very small, and other than that, the two Shuttles use the same heat-pipe cooling technology.
 
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danger

Guest
Cheers Jonters!!!

One other question now I think about it, what is likely to be the difference in performance between a 128mb GF4Ti4200 and the onboard GFMX? It occurs to me I could flog my Ti4200 to cover the costs of the onboard GFX... if it's only a slight difference then it might be worthwhile.
 
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Jonty

Guest
Hi danger

A GeForce4 4200 Ti should happily outperform the integrated GeForce4 MX for a few reasons. Firstly, your card is a dedicated 'mainstream' solution, whereas the MX is an integrated 'budget' solution. The MX also relies on a variable amount of system RAM for its own memory, which is configurable via the BIOS (so, if you want the MX to have 128Mb, that means that 128Mb of your system RAM becomes shared; thus 512Mb system RAM becomes 384Mb, 256Mb system RAM becomes 128Mb and so on).

Don't get me wrong, I've happily run games like GTA3 at 1024x768 (no antialiasing), and Q3A based games like Quake III Arena, Jedi Knight II at 1024x768 with 2x and 4xS antialiasing; but given the choice, I would personally stick with your own graphics card. I don't doubt you could sell it and make up the difference as you describe, but for power, stick with what you've got :)

Kind Regards
 
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smurkin

Guest
The MX also relies on a variable amount of system RAM for its own memory, which is configurable via the BIOS (so, if you want the MX to have 128Mb, that means that 128Mb of your system RAM becomes shared; thus 512Mb system RAM becomes 384Mb, 256Mb system RAM becomes 128Mb and so on).
Click to expand...

Does the mx use the agp aperture to access the system ram? or is wired fundamentally differently ?
 
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lovedaddy

Guest
Originally posted by danger
Cheers Jonters!!!

One other question now I think about it, what is likely to be the difference in performance between a 128mb GF4Ti4200 and the onboard GFMX? It occurs to me I could flog my Ti4200 to cover the costs of the onboard GFX... if it's only a slight difference then it might be worthwhile.
Click to expand...


I'm not 100% on this, but I dont think the MX range of GeForce4 cards have pixel and vertex shaders (they are basically reworked geforce 2's). In that respect, any game that uses shaders, or any other directX8 feature set will be vastly quicker on the Ti4200. (UT2k3, Splinter Cell etc).
 
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Wilier

Guest
Originally posted by danger
Cheers Jonters!!!

One other question now I think about it, what is likely to be the difference in performance between a 128mb GF4Ti4200 and the onboard GFMX? It occurs to me I could flog my Ti4200 to cover the costs of the onboard GFX... if it's only a slight difference then it might be worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Ive been fiddeling around with the machine I have at the moment, before I have to give it away :( and I ran a few benchmarks, just for you danger :)

The system is an SN41G2B with an XP2100+ cpu and 2x512 Crucial 2700 ddr.

3dMark 2001se using the onboard graphics gave 2680 2dmarks. With an Albatron Ti4200 fitted it turned out 8900 3dmarks.

As you can see, the on-board graphics, as Jonty and lovedaddy have already said, dont match a dedicated card by any stretch, although, I have to admit, I didnt try any games on the system, so I cant vouch for its "real-world" performance.
 
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Clowneh!

Guest
Can someone remind me what the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ clocks at please? :)
 
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Jonty

Guest
Originally posted by Clowneh!
Can someone remind me what the AMD Athlon XP 2600+ clocks at please? :)
Click to expand...

I believe the AthlonXP 2600+ runs at 2083Mhz out of the box, with a 333Mhz FSB.

Kind Regards
 
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