Politics Scottish Independance?

[Yoni]

I actually don't understand why generally it is thought that it couldn't work... The isle if man is affiliated with the eu, has its own currency, it's own laws, government and its public services are surprising better than the UK (healthcare). It maintains a good relationship with the UK and the queen is still their head of state.

 

[DaGaffer]

I actually don't understand why generally it is thought that it couldn't work... The isle if man is affiliated with the eu, has its own currency, it's own laws, government and its public services are surprising better than the UK (healthcare). It maintains a good relationship with the UK and the queen is still their head of state.

The IoM is so small that its special status doesn't really matter if it goes off and does its own tax thing etc. And it doesn't really have its own currency; its fully backed by the BoE. Scotland is much bigger so economic activity in Scotland that London didn't control (like setting its own interest rates for example) could be disasterous for the Pound. This is what the Welsh are objecting to; there's nothing to stop Scotland floating against the Pound the way the Irish Punt used to, but despite what the SNP says a currency union with the UK isn't really in the UK's interest.

This is the big problem with all of the SNP's plans; a reflexive "What's good for Scotland is good for everybody" theme that runs through everything they say; except that's obviously not true; the Spanish don't see it that way (because of their own separatist issues; not just Catalonia but the Basques as well), and the French may have similar misgivings. The Welsh and Northern Irish have potentially a lot to lose as well.

 

[Embattle]

The IoM is so small that its special status doesn't really matter if it goes off and does its own tax thing etc. And it doesn't really have its own currency; its fully backed by the BoE. Scotland is much bigger so economic activity in Scotland that London didn't control (like setting its own interest rates for example) could be disasterous for the Pound. This is what the Welsh are objecting to; there's nothing to stop Scotland floating against the Pound the way the Irish Punt used to, but despite what the SNP says a currency union with the UK isn't really in the UK's interest.

Even IoM tows the line when required.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Sorry what? No-one should be taking lessons in taxation from the Irish. Taking the tax base from fucking stupid to remotely sensible has been one of the biggest challenges of the crash, and its not done yet.

I think I didn't get my point over But low corp taxes, for growth, is the Irish model combined with relative high gifts to certain groups of people (single with kids for example).
I agree that the Irish way doesn't work but that they are changing it slowly (too damn slow) does mean they know it can't work in the long term.

I do find it odd that now the SNP is stating that they do not have to deal with Spain in regards to joining the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25138254
Yoni as for Scotland not being able to be independent, they are! but very doubtful under the white paper. The question is more are they willing to pay for independence.

 

[rynnor]

I do find it odd that now the SNP is stating that they do not have to deal with Spain in regards to joining the EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25138254
Yoni as for Scotland not being able to be independent, they are! but very doubtful under the white paper. The question is more are they willing to pay for independence.

It's more complicated than that - the SNP have some pretty good legal advisors and they have pointed out a section of the treaty that basically allows the status quo to continue if you are already a part of the EU (some precedent with countries that split).

There's a big problem though - they would need to continue with the pound - if they couldn't keep the pound for whatever reason then they would have to apply to join properly.

Spain could still probably screw it up for them though if it really went all out.

 

[DaGaffer]

It's more complicated than that - the SNP have some pretty good legal advisors and they have pointed out a section of the treaty that basically allows the status quo to continue if you are already a part of the EU (some precedent with countries that split). There's a big problem though - they would need to continue with the pound - if they couldn't keep the pound for whatever reason then they would have to apply to join properly. Spain could still probably screw it up for them though if it really went all out.

There's no precedent for existing EU members splitting up. This is the problem with the SNPs interpretation of the law; ultimately anything they try to do has to get approval from all 28 members, precisely because it's not been done before. Certainly the EU itself seems to think so.

 

[mr.Blacky]

From what I understand is that you need changes to existing treaties. In which case you need approval of all countries as DaGaffer stated. This would mean for certain countries referendums and that takes time. Those take longer than 18 months and there are no plan B's as far as I can see.

 

[Embattle]

Utter clarity of thought is achieved at first by having no Plan B's in the white paper but after a short time the effect wares off and no plan B's become some what worrying, ultimately the white paper is a book of wishes.

 

[Everz]

So, have the porridge botherers fucked off yet?

 

[Job]

The ' isnt Scotland great' adverts running at the moment leave me utterly uninspired...I dont know what it is and dont take it personally..but I really think Scotland would be better without the Scots

 

[old.user4556]

Don't take it personally, but I think the universe would be better without you Job.

I'm putting you on ignore, because you're an ignorant trolling cunt.

 

[Job]

Well he's ignoring me now, but I do have a Scottish family, my Mothers name is now Campbell from the outer Hebrides clan, I have relatives all over Scotland and allmost of them share a racist, bigotted, chain smoking, drinking, can't understandafucking word they are saying anti English, anti women attitude.
I've said this before, they all turned up for a do and met my mixed race girlfriend at the time, not one would talk to her and one even said 'How can you have one of those in the house?'

 

[DaGaffer]

Well he's ignoring me now, but I do have a Scottish family, my Mothers name is now Campbell from the outer Hebrides clan, I have relatives all over Scotland and allmost of them share a racist, bigotted, chain smoking, drinking, can't understandafucking word they are saying anti English, anti women attitude.
I've said this before, they all turned up for a do and met my mixed race girlfriend at the time, not one would talk to her and one even said 'How can you have one of those in the house?'

So you stereotype 4m people because your family are cunts?

 

[Job]

And Ive watched Taggart...I rest my case.
Oh and Frankie Boyle...any Boyle tbh.

 

[Chilly]

Frankie Boyle is one of the cleverest people about.

 

[old.user4556]

Absolutely classic. I present to you the dark side of Scotland, a.k.a Rangers supporting, unionist fucktards.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A

 

[Job]

Their vocabulary is a little limited, but their hearts in in the right place...they like the Queen.

 

[mr.Blacky]

Big G, please keep them in Scotland.

 

[Raven]

They aren't wrong when they say Alex Salmond is a twat.

 

[rynnor]

Absolutely classic. I present to you the dark side of Scotland, a.k.a Rangers supporting, unionist fucktards.

They just seem like normal football fans tbh?

 

[Embattle]

The other thing was the reference to bringing real democracy to Scotland because the SNP don't allegedly get their own way with Westminster, as if they consider democracy whether the SNP gets their way and forgetting that as a proportion of the UK Scotland is relatively small.

 

[Gwadien]

If Scotland became independent, what would happen to the Army there, I'd imagine they'd take all the equipment to the other side of the border, but would they take people with them or not?

 

[DaGaffer]

If Scotland became independent, what would happen to the Army there, I'd imagine they'd take all the equipment to the other side of the border, but would they take people with them or not?

Do Scottish soldiers based in England even get a vote?

 

[rynnor]

Do Scottish soldiers based in England even get a vote?

I doubt it - they are unlikely to vote for redundancy.

 

[Chilly]

Do Scottish soldiers based in England even get a vote?

From the wiki page:

Under the terms of the 2010 Draft Bill, the following people would be entitled to vote in the referendum:[15]

• British citizens who are resident in Scotland;
• citizens of the 53 other Commonwealth countries who are resident in Scotland;
• citizens of the 27 other European Union countries who are resident in Scotland;
• members of the House of Lords who are resident in Scotland;
• Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the armed forces or with Her Majesty's Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

 

[Chilly]

And resident means having lived there for some shortish period, iirc.

 

[DaGaffer]

From the wiki page:

Under the terms of the 2010 Draft Bill, the following people would be entitled to vote in the referendum:[15]

• British citizens who are resident in Scotland;
• citizens of the 53 other Commonwealth countries who are resident in Scotland;
• citizens of the 27 other European Union countries who are resident in Scotland;
• members of the House of Lords who are resident in Scotland;
• Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the armed forces or with Her Majesty's Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

So the younger ones still registered at their Mammy's address will get to vote, but the older ones in Quarters probably won't.

 

[fettoken]

Absolutely classic. I present to you the dark side of Scotland, a.k.a Rangers supporting, unionist fucktards.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A

They absolutely nailed it with the background-theme. Class

They just seem like normal football fans tbh?

Nah. They match, and goes a step beyond some of the peeps in "Hooligans". That is putting it lightly.

 

[leggy]

They don't want us Jocks living in England to get a say. Probably wise considering my stance.

 

[Raven]

Obviously they have to draw a line somewhere but I do think they have drawn it in the wrong place. imo it should be people registered as being born in Scotland and current residents of Scotland.