SB rant again, thx buffbots.

[Gekul]

Originally posted by Pin
Yeah, remember those extra points.... We already used most of those to raise weapon spec to 50, get the 5% extra weaponskill to cancel out your 5% extra hitpoints.

We are actually looking at 18 + 11 DW which is 2 rungs higher in the table.


Of course, it's an example biased towards your viewpoint.

If you were to drop stealth and envenom to 34 or 33 and put the rest into LA/DW it would narrow the spec difference, etc.

Look at my post again... it showed how many points would remain if they specced like a critblade. Once again, you are giving me compromises. Why does a shadowblade have to be worse off than an infiltrator?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Gekul
Look at my post again... it showed how many points would remain if they specced like a critblade. Once again, you are giving me compromises. Why does a shadowblade have to be worse off than an infiltrator?

I'm not giving you compromises, I'm saying drop it down on both of them. LA raises by 15 points, DW by 2. You are giving a biased example.

 

[Gekul]

I would say having lower specs is a compromise, wouldn't you?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Gekul
I would say having lower specs is a compromise, wouldn't you?

yup. just like having lower hps

 

[Gekul]

I'll say this simply, take everything an infil has, compare it to what a shadowblade has without LA. Stuns, spec points, hit points etc.
Is it balanced?

I don't think so.

 

[Runolaz]

Just liked to add that with max slash, Jager did arround 220-290 in dmg on me. I have some nice SS from him + a Mins jumping me omw to Odins ---> was rezsick lol

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by Runolaz
Just liked to add that with max slash, Jager did arround 220-290 in dmg on me. I have some nice SS from him + a Mins jumping me omw to Odins ---> was rezsick lol

Assuming both you n Jager were buffed?? Or Jager buffed n u wasn´t?

 

[salamurhaaja]

If Inf, SB, NS are same RR and all have BB:

When albs have relics:
Inf > SB, NS

When mids have relics:
SB > Inf, NS

If Hibs have relics:
NS > Inf, SB

What is the reason nerf SBs really?

 

[salamurhaaja]

And I didn't see Pin or any other Inf complaining LA being overpowered when I was owned be pin, yog, sst and other Infils half year ago in emain when I was rr3-4.

How come all of the sudden SBs are overpowered...
Wait a minute, did we made a visit in your excal few months ago?

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
If Inf, SB, NS are same RR and all have BB:

When albs have relics:
Inf > SB, NS

When mids have relics:
SB > Inf, NS

If Hibs have relics:
NS > Inf, SB

What is the reason nerf SBs really?

Good point, but try to see the LA nerf the way the rest of classes do (not only others assasins). Is not only an issue of balancing or unbalancing the "stealthwars".


PS: forgive my spelling

 

[saltymcpepper]

dont bring cute ns into this

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Vasconcelos
Good point, but try to see the LA nerf the way the rest of classes do (not only others assasins). Is not only an issue of balancing or unbalancing the "stealthwars".


PS: forgive my spelling

There is no doubt that the dmg done by Zerker are insane and needed toning down. I mean Sorouzi hitting for 800-1000 on a Heavy Tank like Tankster (with crit though) is insane.

This is not the case on a SB. I have seen some ppl say SZ hit for 400+ that is pure bullox and bunch of lies. A SB vs anything other than a robe-wearers will hit for 150-290 (ex crit using LA Styles vs lvl 50 with 20+ resist) that is the thruth and you god damn well know its the truth. if Sb have been hard in the past mounth's it's cuz of relics...think about how it was when you had it.

On Pendragon you have INF laugthing of how easy it is too take SB. NS are worried cuz they know that at higher RR they already are the best assassin in the game. Tell you what...if this goes live you will be having INF/NS nerf inc faster than you can say "pie".

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by bewal
I agree, those people who figured they be uber with buffbots ruined much of the fun for people like me.

Sad but true. /salute Dath

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by Runolaz
There is no doubt that the dmg done by Zerker are insane and needed toning down. I mean Sorouzi hitting for 800-1000 on a Heavy Tank like Tankster (with crit though) is insane.

This is not the case on a SB. I have seen some ppl say SZ hit for 400+ that is pure bullox and bunch of lies. A SB vs anything other than a robe-wearers will hit for 150-290 (ex crit using LA Styles vs lvl 50 with 20+ resist) that is the thruth and you god damn well know its the truth. if Sb have been hard in the past mounth's it's cuz of relics...think about how it was when you had it.

On Pendragon you have INF laugthing of how easy it is too take SB. NS are worried cuz they know that at higher RR they already are the best assassin in the game. Tell you what...if this goes live you will be having INF/NS nerf inc faster than you can say "pie".

Yeah this is true, and yes sb's do hit for between 150-290, on average Im hit for 240 whe Im fully buffed, more form comeback etc. Relics are of great importance and when albs have all relics things are a little more balanced. But infils dont have such an easy time owning with relics as sb's appear too.

The issue is more with the high damage modifiers LA has, yeah true you dont have stun. But say we get DF in, if its not purged we get.

DF - around 130 odd dmg + left
Hamstring - around 140 + left
Hamstring 140 + left
Leaper 130 + left

ok so we get 500+ odd dmg, now consider it takes 2 hits with tranq before we pull this off. Say 70dmg each, at the same time you get two hits in at say 250dmg. Already thats 350 more damage then we've dealth you before landing the stun, which may win it, but is still no guarantee.

Yes relics play a large part, yes totally nerfing LA is a bit too far. I would argue that nerfing LA but giving a better stun in the chain would offer an incentive.

Also, how many sb's get beaten at AMG etc and shoute FFS nerf LA, ive seen so many infils, tanks etc alike say this since 1.50. I remember rvr'ing when this was implemented and thinking wtf, thats some uber dmg.

But yeah, its a little too late for it now :/

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Pin
yup. just like having lower hps

i am sorry PIn but for an experienced player here you are being extremely idiotic. The extra HP a Sb gets now in the world of RAs and SC can be easily made up by any infil esepcially one of a higher rr as they can get decent elvels of aug con / toughness.

Infils will be kings of stealth if the LA nerf goes in as is. I have always agreed that they need to do something about LA but not completely destroy it. Infils @ 2,5 x spec points = teh win. Str/Dex based weapons + ability to spec a natural 50 in main damage type = superior to a few additional hit points / 2h weaps & supperior to a shades dd's.

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Runolaz
There is no doubt that the dmg done by Zerker are insane and needed toning down. I mean Sorouzi hitting for 800-1000 on a Heavy Tank like Tankster (with crit though) is insane.

This is not the case on a SB. I have seen some ppl say SZ hit for 400+ that is pure bullox and bunch of lies. A SB vs anything other than a robe-wearers will hit for 150-290 (ex crit using LA Styles vs lvl 50 with 20+ resist) that is the thruth and you god damn well know its the truth. if Sb have been hard in the past mounth's it's cuz of relics...think about how it was when you had it.

On Pendragon you have INF laugthing of how easy it is too take SB. NS are worried cuz they know that at higher RR they already are the best assassin in the game. Tell you what...if this goes live you will be having INF/NS nerf inc faster than you can say "pie".

Agree with runolaz. Infils definately next on the block with their 2.5x spec points if the LA nerf is too big. remeber every nerf that happens to your enemies will eventually end with a nerf to you if mythic overnerf as they have historically have been known to do.

 

[ulke]

Originally posted by Pin
Well, that's true unbuffed. A buffed Norse (with +10 at creation and aug str 1) will be over 300str.

Hmm, 300str will be less than 200 after enervating tho = 350less weaponskill or so, how does your weapskill look after i use enervating on u ?

And with anything less than 1000weaponskill the odds that a 50thruster doesnt land df is pretty slim...
Try fighting a sb with unbuffed dex and u will see what i mean
I know it, you know it - infils and sb's are prett equal atm.
Lets keep it at that

 

[zico]

Infils have:

1) Better class ra than sbs.

2) More spec points.

3) Choice of damage types.

4) Dragonfang.

5) Better races for increasing weaponskill.

6) Not affected by enervating as much as sbs (due to most using dex based weapons).

7) DW is far far better than left axe if both are specced low.

Shadowblades have:

1) Left axe (but not after 1.62)

 

[Sajko]

your saying infs hit for 230-290, well some inf jumped me at mtk today and PA me for 450ish and then the rest of his hits were under 100, 15 secs later he was laying flat on the ground. BD fortehwin!!!11!
To the inf, u know who u are

 

[jua-cosmos-jua]

infs are pretty equal with infs? . Half of you sbs have see hidden allready thats a so damn clear thing that shows that you have some ras extra to waste... Another thing. In a 2v2 battle who has most chances of wining?. 2 hits each sb on same inf = dead.Most of the chances i dont grp is cause even with another inf its imposible to win 2 sbs. then you talk about the dragonfang. The stun that can be purged. But what do you have so far? the comeback and the stun its hard to pull? the comeback that takes out at least 1/7 of our lifes? Take out 500 hp from the enervating and some more from the lifebane lets see how much hitpoints we are left with. I agree with the nerf of the la, tho i must admit 30% sounds too much, but if you think of it its like sbs without the relics. did you guys have problems without the relics against the infs? Or was it 50-50 the outcome between simular ranks? Personally from the deathspams i d say you still had more chancess.Be a little openminded pls and learn to use your backup styles. personaly its disapointing to me watching myself dying from a lower rank sb that evaded 2-3 hits but keept on pressing the doublefrost without using evade opening move, and in the end killing me.

salamour half a year ago?? you mean when there was no evade cap and we didnt had to use the lameass tranq/wyverfang to pull an evade ooh.. thats kinda different imo

ps Zico some minor details you missed sbs have more hp, its not the race that increases the ifns weaponskill its the 50 thrust + 11 fromitems +x from ras that most infs have. The only thing i can think of my race is those points on dext that go to waste due to the evade cap and another thing, we hit with penalty to your armor..
anway as the other guy said before.. its too early to make conclusions its stil on test

 

[Driwen]

jua-cosmos-jua sbs got see hidden, because you can spot minstrells with it . Its rather useful for that and how do you know what style the opponent is spamming???

 

[mirak_naijmi]

This disscussion need a salute for very low whine rating and serious disscussion /salute

Im not that good at those advanced formulas you use and so on, but il try my best at arguing from my point of view

The LA nerf i think is mostly directed at berzerkers, and yes the berzerkers need a nerf badly no arguing there

The sbs thou im not sure....
-I have seen NS taking out tanks before they can react.
-I have seen INF taking out tanks before they can react.
-I have as an SB taken out tanks before they have reacted.
-Most assasins can take out caster classes in 1-2 blows(this depending on specc).
-SB vs INF vs NS is atm pretty balanced. Yes NS suck at low rr but i have been killed many times by the higher rr. When im unbuffed and we didnt have relics i almost never killed infils(it did happen thou), i could manage NS thou. Now when we have the relics i still get killed by INF/NS sometimes even when im buffed. In Infils case its almost always dragonfang and me out of purge, and in NS case i dont really know what happens....my screen gets spammed with 5 different 50 damage thingys *10 and i die

What i get out of this is that we are pretty equal, yes i feel it sometimes when im in combat that "omg, i really pwned that guy to much" since my LA styles do kinda hard damage. But nerfing it 30% is kinda harsh, if they reduced damage like 5% or maybe even 10% i would accept it. But u realise how much 30% is? Its an insane ammount of damage.

Look at it this way;
SB damage goes down 30%
Albs take relics and SB damage goes down another 20%
Albs take relics and INF damage goes up 20%

In total i have lost 50% damage and infils earned 20% damage.

Just to make you realise what this means to:

I now hit an infil for max 290 damage(my cap is 380 i beleave)(with DF). That will be reduced to 145(cap 190) damage if those things happen.

An infil hits me for max 240 damage. That will be increased to 288 damage if both these things happen.

It will gimp SZ, it will gimp 5-specc and it will gimp Soulblade.

 

[jua-cosmos-jua]

Originally posted by driwen
jua-cosmos-jua sbs got see hidden, because you can spot minstrells with it . Its rather useful for that and how do you know what style the opponent is spamming???

driwen do you understand that all infs at excal put all ras to be anti sb? You guys can even spare the see hidden, i d like to have it but i went for mop4 for example, just for the sbs. I would gladly put vanish but i cant afford losing from the the sbs, since they are the most classes i constantly fight with

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by jua-cosmos-jua
driwen do you understand that all infs at excal put all ras to be anti sb? You guys can even spare the see hidden, i d like to have it but i went for mop4 for example, just for the sbs. I would gladly put vanish but i cant afford losing from the the sbs, since they are the most classes i constantly fight with

maybe our sbs dont want to be anti infil?? It isnt about being able to spare its about what class are you actually hunting? If you are completly specced to fight sbs with your spec and with your RA spec and a sb can afford to buy see hidden yes then they are too strong. But are you completly specced vs sbs with your spec or just with your RA's?

 

[K0nah]

hibs and mids have 2 non-assasin classes with stealth to hunt (archers and mincers) and albs only have one, thats why sbs take see hidden

 

[dath]

I don't have see hidden, couldn't afford to take it since I needed every RA I could get to boost my fighting ability, since I got no buffs. No scout, mincer or ranger can complain unfair advantage from me, in this RA's way anyways. The facts remain for me: I play like a critblade manouvering for BSII on 90 % of my fights, but when I made this guy I envisioned him being a SZ, only that and nothing but that, I wanted the poisons, I wanted my offhand weapon. That was Dathcald for me and I made him and dragged his ass to 50 at nighttime when I got my only free time. Now people scoff at these whines from sbs saying, go critblade. Saying you must be a looser if you can't adapt. Well I can adapt, I do that every day and I'm not one for giving up, my line of work don't let loosers live. Gods sakes Ive rerolled 3 times due to Mythics interesting ideas and that with limited time at my hands. This time, however, I don't see much choice if the patch comes like that. Critblade. For me, thats not Dathcald, its something else I don't want. I didn't work over 20 days to make that, just like for exsample someone playing a warden would be told to change his spec because sorry, your PBT is too powerful (bad exsample but anyways...).Won't play critblade, not due to any difficulty factors, my quickbar has many styles and I use most of em now. Doublefrost isn't my thing either, since I got no end reg ever, which makes me use combination of styles to kill anyone. Without buffbot, poisons or left axe this guys not going to survive. And one respec isn't enough to make him a critbalde anyways, so it don't matter. Oh, and to people saying "Go kill a dragon" (enter an arrogant smiley here) they should be careful. You never know when its your class in need for one. Getting one from 150 people with guild and alliance intrique and then hoping yoiu get the 1 shot out of whoknowshowmany to degimp a char that was perfectly made isn't too good for players morale.

Thx for people for keeping this thread without oneliners and having adult-like chat. Im rather surprised over it.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by jua-cosmos-jua
driwen do you understand that all infs at excal put all ras to be anti sb? You guys can even spare the see hidden, i d like to have it but i went for mop4 for example, just for the sbs. I would gladly put vanish but i cant afford losing from the the sbs, since they are the most classes i constantly fight with

8 points in SH still doesn't make you the assassin killer a 46Axe/44LA vs 50Thrust/6DW is. Most INF I see are 44CS, thuse not primarly specced anti-assassin. There are also loads of SB that don't have SH.

 

[Jarrax]

Originally posted by jua-cosmos-jua
driwen do you understand that all infs at excal put all ras to be anti sb? You guys can even spare the see hidden, i d like to have it but i went for mop4 for example, just for the sbs. I would gladly put vanish but i cant afford losing from the the sbs, since they are the most classes i constantly fight with

hmmmm, See Hidden or Shadow Run.......

Now theres a tough choice.

Point is after, getting purge/dodger/toughness/mop/aug con/aug str....there isnt really much else to get.

They should move Dragon fang into CS line, so all assassins can attain it, apparently its not that overpowered (listening to infs)


I wish my unbuffed 5-spec hit for the numbers i see claimed everyday, i really do. Only time i can win vs an unbuffed inf was when purge was up and I got the drop on em.
With buffed..well same as most unbuffed vs buffed, lose every single time.

Jarrax Frozenheart
Wolverines

 

[Loccon]

And with anything less than 1000weaponskill the odds that a 50thruster doesnt land df is pretty slim...
--Posted by Ulke--

Unbuffed infis has maybe 3-4 tries to land DF and pray that u evade once...cause vs LA specced SB u go down in 4 strikes.
(And even if u land DF, do evadechain...when stun breaks *whack* *whack* and the SB had taken as much hps as i landed.)

Im Getting hitted by SBs 350-400 a strike on regular basis(25% slash resist)! me myself can land my styles (garrote, AH) for maybe 100-120...
Im so tired of this not standing a chance vs SB, and see Albions maintanks bite the dust almost as easy as me.

Im happy LA get nerfed! About time. Now SB will need some skill and can't just attack tanks, have a decent fight /bow and run for next tank.
Ofc it feels hard for u SB that has owned anything for so long...
now u might even lose sometimes.

 

[greenfingers]

Ah yes, the CS line. The line that to be effective needs the server be lagless, the enemy to run in straight line near road with stupid smile on his face and preferably alone

Feel like an infi now?