SB against Infiltrator

[Zoldot]

Yes I've played lvl 50 sb, yes I think they need nerf. BUT NOT AS MUCH. if you can read my previous messages.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
the pic i showed remi was of a Comeback, i was already debuffed and had been attacked by 2 infils, the order was PA, BAckstab, Creeping death, the 450 doublefrost then 750 Comeback killed him , in that instance i was debuffed and he wasn't as i had just ran outta TK unstealthed an was about to apply poisons ;P

Infs are harder to play due to the simple reason they can't win fights by just spamming anytimes, at the same time, Shadowblades dont havea regular opponent who can potentially 2 shot them (how many times can u honestly say you've been 2 shotted by an infil without PA?...yes it's generally impossible)

the point is, infs/ns are not hard to play, but SBs are extremely easy to play.

The thing I don't get is how you could get that high dmg. when debuffed, and I like to see those SS again. I have 46 + 14Axe/44 + 14LA and I'm nowhere near those numbers (MoPIII). I have maxed qui though. Debuffed on DF mainhand does 170 + 60-70 offhand on a fullly buffed INF. Take away 20% and compare that to INFs, that are usually swing away 130 + off at faster spd and has in-combat-stun. The dmg you mentioned above is veeeeeery rare.

LoL Inf arn't harder to play that is utter BS . SB spam Comeback with anytimestyle as backup. Inf spam Dragonfang with anytimestyle as backup. A CB uses hamstring backed up by garrote - get the picture. A SZ is good at figthing other assasins and yes has a small advantage, but does not have the frontload of the INF. And about to-shotting an equal buffed/equipped/RR INF come on... Assasin vs assasin is about landing Env first to get an edge, but 2 shotting...plz gif loggs

It's obvious that either SB will be boosted or NS/INF will be nerfed.

 

[old.Emma]

SZ and 5-spec SB`s use ravager for one night and then you`ll see why so many people are bitching on the US SB forums, the difference in damage between ravager now and doublefrost in 1.62 is about 5 dmg.

bare in mind that doublefrost is supposed to be the most damaging anytime style in the game. yet when you look at the numbers you get with ravager you`ll realise why SB`s are getting there ass's handed to them left right and centre in 1.62 by pretty much every single class that can and does spec a weapon type high..

let me give an idea.

camping Sariloc in Iarnwood with my zerker. 50 hammer/la

average doublefrost/snowblind against a blue con fendungar is ~240-260 this is unbuffed

average ravager against the same blue con mobs
~140-170

this is unbuffed TANK damage against a blue con mob.. something aint right there, thats for sure,

ohh and another thing the damage caps for LA style snowsquall is actually lower in 1.62 than the amy slash cap is on my 46 infil.

and the SB that tested the caps for post/pre nurf LA styles is specced 48 axe, 50 LA.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Runolaz
The thing I don't get is how you could get that high dmg. when debuffed, and I like to see those SS again. I have 46 + 14Axe/44 + 14LA and I'm nowhere near those numbers (MoPIII). I have maxed qui though. Debuffed on DF mainhand does 170 + 60-70 offhand on a fullly buffed INF. Take away 20% and compare that to INFs, that are usually swing away 130 + off at faster spd and has in-combat-stun. The dmg you mentioned above is veeeeeery rare.

LoL Inf arn't harder to play that is utter BS . SB spam Comeback with anytimestyle as backup. Inf spam Dragonfang with anytimestyle as backup. A CB uses hamstring backed up by garrote - get the picture. A SZ is good at figthing other assasins and yes has a small advantage, but does not have the frontload of the INF. And about to-shotting an equal buffed/equipped/RR INF come on... Assasin vs assasin is about landing Env first to get an edge, but 2 shotting...plz gif loggs

It's obvious that either SB will be boosted or NS/INF will be nerfed.

211 unbuffed Doublefrost
when lomald died he dropped 2-3 buffs.
thats a RR7 Infil (and you know Yog was good...) and partially buffed RR4 infil (dont know if lomald is any good) against an unbuffed Shadowblade (but look at the damage being received)


That Crit is harder than remi's dragonfang cap.. Thats 2 shots, dont have any logs to back it up, i was buffed --> debuffed, he wasn't as you can see due to no 'str returning' etc.
he was with another infil Sanan (sp?) who died in 3 hits, both unbuffed

both where RR4.



show me pics of infs doing this damage with any style other than PA.


If you want more pics, ask remi to post his of fights with me.
RR5 shadowblade against rr7-8 infil, Inf hitting for 110 or so, SB hitting for 250-350 every round.


36+15 Axe
39+11 LA

when i get debuffed (when im already buffed) my weaponskill drops down to the 800-900 zone



please explain to me how this isn't overpowering.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos

If you want more pics, ask remi to post his of fights with me.
RR5 shadowblade against rr7-8 infil, Inf hitting for 110 or so, SB hitting for 250-350 every round.

36+15 Axe
39+11 LA

I have 60Axe/58LA and debuffed DF is 180-250 with 20% melee bouns from Relics against maxed resisted and buffed INF's. Unbuffed well I can do 250-350. I have seen tons of logs including my own and I know how much dmg I can do, but the difference between debuffed and not is huge.

I would urge you Carlos to try your SB as Emma said with Ravager and Hamstring instead of DF and Comeback. Unless the equally skilled INF is afk you will loose...

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
typical Emain sutiation.

i stand and wait for enemy. Fg runs past, then turns to me, in 6-8 seconds im slammed and shreddered and nuked to death. Reason: group had scout with TS.

How would soon-be-nerfed SH help me in this situation?

u know how often that happends to me? but instead of an archer with TS, its a sb/ns with passive see hidden. and imo, this is much _MUCH_ more worst then a friggin once every 30 mins RA that lasts for 60 secs.

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
211 unbuffed Doublefrost
when lomald died he dropped 2-3 buffs.
thats a RR7 Infil (and you know Yog was good...) and partially buffed RR4 infil (dont know if lomald is any good) against an unbuffed Shadowblade (but look at the damage being received)

Can't tell which fight this is about, but looks to me as if im not doing any styles .. you i hit you with the (in)famous infiltrator opening detaunt style which basically hits for 30-50 damage.

Still i dont find any sb, buffed or unbuffed, hiting me for less then 190 openining then chaining of for 200-300 per followup. Thats insane. And thats vs 28% slash resistance as well.

Only chance of actually having a chance is hiting DF and hopefully not get it purged. Anyway, my oppinion is .. sbs shall not whine about la nerf since its been prooven its very needed =).

/Salute to all solo sbs.

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
139 on an infil is VERY low


250-300 is about average, -30% and your still hitting harder than infils uber 70-100 mainhand dmg.

Oh you hit for that much after str/con debuff? now thats something im missing even if im buffed and using mp GR =).

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos

That Crit is harder than remi's dragonfang cap..

/cry
/cry
/cry

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by froler-mid
/cry
/cry
/cry

It will soon be sorted out in a matter of time

Edit: Anubis attacks you with his axe! you are hit for 380 damage! (lols)
Anubus attacks you with his axe! you are hit for 312 damage!(rofl)

nerf by 40% and they do normal damage, correctly done by mythic =)

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by froler-mid
/cry
/cry
/cry

haha you suck im overpowered ;D

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Runolaz
The problem with the numbers you came up with is that they showed you BSII-Snowsquall-Icy Brillince etc, thus you were hitting them without beeing debuffed. Yes, a SB will hits very hard if allowed to do so without beeing debuffed. Any INF that does not for some strange reason use Env will loose vs SB. When I meet RR4-6+ INF that knows how to play their toon the figth is allways more or less even. Mid has the relics so we should have the edge, and I do feel I have a sligth edge.

I have tried out many classes, and I fail to see why INF are more difficult to play than a SB. Your still hitting the same buttons on your keyboard. I have a CB and a SZ and and the routine in the keyboard is almost the same. I'm still hitting 2-1, 2-1 and followup styles after initial evadestyle. For the CB I try to open up with PA/BII on the SZ I try to open up with BSII/Snowsquall. How is this any different than a INF/NS??

im really no interested about the damage done after the patch, i barly play my shadowblade as it is, i can't see it getting more active in the future, skald + healer = morefun an beneficial to teh realm etc ;P

point is, at the current moment in time, Left Axe is extremely overpowered, the damage done, when compared to the duel wielding abilities of other realms is insane.

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos

point is, at the current moment in time, Left Axe is extremely overpowered, the damage done, when compared to the duel wielding abilities of other realms is insane.

no shit ^^ Nalistah just hit me for 3 * 300+ =P i made tran-wyven and i didnt even got of 200 damage ^^

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
im really no interested about the damage done after the patch, i barly play my shadowblade as it is, i can't see it getting more active in the future, skald + healer = morefun an beneficial to teh realm etc ;P

point is, at the current moment in time, Left Axe is extremely overpowered, the damage done, when compared to the duel wielding abilities of other realms is insane.

Yes, LA is owerpowered Zerker vs Merc/BM, but 40% was way too much.

Assasins are balanced on many issues like RA's/DMG/HP/MAGIC/SpecPoint/Weapontype/Styleeffects etc, you simply cannot look at one of them and forget all the other. I would trade my SZ for a Thrust specced SB with DW/DF and 2.5 sp without a blink of an eye.

atm Dragonfang is also owerpowered, but all factors added things IMHO balances out.

Anyway 1.62 unless Mythic does any real dmgcontrol I sadly fear this game is doomed. Never have Mythic seen so many cancelation and Mid poppulation on most US servers are already feeling a heavy impact. I've been trolling forums up and down and they all indicate that both Zerker and SB classes are gutted.

 

[salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
211 unbuffed Doublefrost


comeback

How the hell you did those kinda damages?
My str fully buffed is 287, axe68, la68

And I never, NEVER even dream that kinda damage. I can start posting several logs where I do under under 200 damage, I sometimes hit over 200 whit comeback or frosty, not any-time.

There's something wrong, looks like berserkers damage

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja

There's something wrong, looks like berserkers damage

!!!!!1111. thx salaurhajja ^^

 

[ulke]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
How the hell you did those kinda damages?
My str fully buffed is 287, axe68, la68

And I never, NEVER even dream that kinda damage. I can start posting several logs where I do under under 200 damage, I sometimes hit over 200 whit comeback or frosty, not any-time.

There's something wrong, looks like berserkers damage

Unity is hitting at ~3secs delay in thoose pics, you at 1.5sec, thats the differance

 

[belth]

And infils hit at around 0.2-0.3 seconds according to many SBs. Damn, I just love hitting 2x/3x faster!

 

[ulke]

OK, lets end this discussion

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by ulke
Unity is hitting at ~3secs delay in thoose pics, you at 1.5sec, thats the differance

Infils swing about same speed as SBs

with buffed qui most assasins will be near enough to the cap (Unity is 1.7/8s i think)



and afaik GR (main hand thrust weap) is 4.1 speed, also bear in mind they dont get the same effects from natural haste as thier offhand doesn't swing every round, so some of the time they actually swing slower afaik

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos

and afaik GR (main hand thrust weap) is 4.1 speed, also bear in mind they dont get the same effects from natural haste as thier offhand doesn't swing every round, so some of the time they actually swing slower afaik

GR is 3.9, with some secret math calculations its 2-3x times faster then sb swing speed imo.

 

[ulke]

Ok, sb's are by faaaar a better class than infils, happy now ?

 

[Freppe^^]

stlong whine ;>>

 

[salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by froler-mid
!!!!!1111. thx salaurhajja ^^

Who the hell are you referring?

/nerf your spelling m8 :wink2:

 

[belth]

Originally posted by froler-mid
GR is 3.9, with some secret math calculations its 2-3x times faster then sb swing speed imo.

3.5 actually Slowest slasher is 4.1 but that's slash... EWW!

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
Who the hell are you referring?

/nerf your spelling m8 :wink2:

nerf the name: salamurhaaja ^^

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by froler-mid
nerf the name: salamurhaaja ^^

hehe - used to drive me nuts trying to spell it right to pm the munchkin.

 

[jua-cosmos-jua]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
It will soon be sorted out in a matter of time

Edit: Anubis attacks you with his axe! you are hit for 380 damage! (lols)
Anubus attacks you with his axe! you are hit for 312 damage!(rofl)

nerf by 40% and they do normal damage, correctly done by mythic =)

i had a couple of fight with the particular sb. his max hit was a 299.. that was without a comeback, without enervting since he purged my df. My max was 283 since i did a 90 critical in one of my hamstrings and had purged the enervating at the beging of the battle. I won both fights but i was with 3-5% life left.. to tell you the truth.They do a lot of dmg. but we do enough too

Personally if we, have the relics it wont be a problem at 1v1.. the hard part is 2v2 3v3 since infs have a disadvantage

but you know how it is.. sbs vs infs is a really random fight. If the sbs resist the enervating at the start of the fight well there is a problem

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by jua-cosmos-jua
i had a couple of fight with the particular sb. his max hit was a 299.. that was without a comeback, without enervting since he purged my df. My max was 283 since i did a 90 critical in one of my hamstrings and had purged the enervating at the beging of the battle. I won both fights but i was with 3-5% life left.. to tell you the truth.They do a lot of dmg. but we do enough too

Personally if we, have the relics it wont be a problem at 1v1.. the hard part is 2v2 3v3 since infs have a disadvantage

but you know how it is.. sbs vs infs is a really random fight. If the sbs resist the enervating at the start of the fight well there is a problem

Amen

....and this is what happends when the SB is not debuffed and the INF is badly equipped, probably using a low lvl buffer...

...somthing that does not happend on a daily basis...at least not for me

[01:16:06] You auto-stick Briton.
[01:16:06] You enter combat mode but have no target!
[01:16:06] You are no longer hidden!
[01:16:06] You miss!
[01:16:06] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 76 (-6) damage!
[01:16:06] You auto-stick Briton.
[01:16:07] You prepare to perform a Comeback!
[01:16:07] You are now preparing to perform a Snowblind style as a backup for Comeback!
[01:16:07] Jax attacks you with his sword!
[01:16:07] You are hit for 94 damage.
[01:16:07] You are poisoned!
[01:16:07] You are hit for 57 damage.
[01:16:07] You hit Jax for 3 extra damage!
[01:16:08] You perform your Snowblind perfectly. (+148)
[01:16:08] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 280 (-21) damage!
[01:16:08] You critical hit for an additional 109 damage!
[01:16:08] Jax evades your attack!
[01:16:09] Jax attacks you with his sword!
[01:16:09] You are hit for 82 damage.
[01:16:09] Your movement is slowed!
[01:16:09] You hit Jax for 5 extra damage!
[01:16:09] You prepare to perform a Comeback!
[01:16:09] You are now preparing to perform a Snowblind style as a backup for Comeback!
[01:16:11] You perform your Snowblind perfectly. (+133)
[01:16:11] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 252 (-19) damage!
[01:16:11] You critical hit for an additional 95 damage!
[01:16:11] Jax evades your attack!
[01:16:11] Jax attacks you with his sword!
[01:16:11] You are hit for 100 damage.
[01:16:11] Your movement is slowed!
[01:16:11] You hit Jax for 5 extra damage!
[01:16:11] You are poisoned!
[01:16:11] You are hit for 57 damage.
[01:16:11] You prepare to perform a Comeback!
[01:16:12] You are now preparing to perform a Snowblind style as a backup for Comeback!
[01:16:13] You perform your Snowblind perfectly. (+124)
[01:16:13] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 236 (-18) damage!
[01:16:13] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 93 (-7) damage!
[01:16:13] Jax attacks you with his sword!
[01:16:13] You are hit for 94 damage.
[01:16:13] You cannot move!
[01:16:13] You hit Jax for 3 extra damage!
[01:16:15] @@[Guild] Dargir: "slutar du i 2mnd?"
[01:16:15] Jax attacks you with his sword!
[01:16:15] You are hit for 90 damage.
[01:16:15] Your movement is slowed!
[01:16:15] You hit Jax for 4 extra damage!
[01:16:15] You attempt to use the shimmeringarcanium Matterbender cleaver.
[01:16:15] You sheathe the shimmeringarcanium Adroit cleaver from your right hand.
[01:16:15] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[01:16:15] Your Stealth skill has decreased.
[01:16:15] Your Axe skill has decreased.
[01:16:15] Your Critical Strike skill has decreased.
[01:16:15] You wield the shimmeringarcanium Matterbender cleaver in your right hand.
[01:16:15] Your Dexterity has increased.
[01:16:15] Your hits have increased.
[01:16:15] Your Axe skill has increased.
[01:16:15] Your Matter resistance increased.
[01:16:15] You enter combat mode and target [Jax]
[01:16:15] You prepare to perform a Comeback!
[01:16:15] You are now preparing to perform a Snowblind style as a backup for Comeback!
[01:16:15] You perform your Snowblind perfectly. (+182)
[01:16:15] You attack Jax with your axe and hit for 313 (-24) damage!
[01:16:15] Jax is poisoned!
[01:16:15] You hit Jax for 57 damage!
[01:16:15] You just killed Jax!
[01:16:15] Jax's calmness leaves.
[01:16:15] Jax's enhanced vigor fades.
[01:16:15] Jax's extra strength fades.
[01:16:15] Jax's enhanced agility fades.
[01:16:15] Jax's enhanced vigor fades.
[01:16:15] Jax's extra strength fades.
[01:16:15] Jax just died. His corpse lies on the ground.
[01:16:15] You get 576 realm points! (lol forgot to diss my shaman )
[01:16:15] You earn 17 extra realm points!
[01:16:15] You get 26 bounty points!
[01:16:15] You have killed Jax recently and are awarded no experience!

 

[belth]

Grossly overpowered damage.