Savages

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by brommix
Whisperess, you honestly believe that all the numbers from the RESPECTED people of this community, about the savages are pure propeganda or even lies? Whenever you see a mid group that just sends their savages out like bloody tomahawk missiles who doesnt even have to assist...well you should know something is wrong then, its just like a cannonbullit smashing its way through people, and there are no other tanks in the game who come close their damage output and surviveabillity combined, when you match that with a couple or 3good healers all hib and alb groups are at odds 1 in 10 to win that fight, if that is your perception of fun gaming and game balance you wont scory any points with me....not that you would want anyways
Savages destroys the game in more than one way, Albs agree now that we just Zerg the fuck out of them, i consider it a fair fight to lead 30 albs to 1fg mids with savages in it, I will assist hibs at anytime anywhere fighting savage groups Savage groups in the end kills of midgaard as a realm, because the elitism attitude in midgaard denies you of the good natured RVR players so you will mostly be outnumbered when you exclude half your possible rvr population. If I could I would arrange for hibs and albs to only rvr with each other and leave mids to themselves in empty zones, there are no glory, no fun, no achievement in fighting savage groups as the imbalance is so great that the matter of skills are indifferent.

Good post

Guess its the same i feel about infils sometimes when my purge is down

 

[Pandemic]

Originally posted by brommix
Whisperess, you honestly believe that all the numbers from the RESPECTED people of this community, about the savages are pure propeganda or even lies? Whenever you see a mid group that just sends their savages out like bloody tomahawk missiles who doesnt even have to assist...well you should know something is wrong then, its just like a cannonbullit smashing its way through people, and there are no other tanks in the game who come close their damage output and surviveabillity combined, when you match that with a couple or 3good healers all hib and alb groups are at odds 1 in 10 to win that fight, if that is your perception of fun gaming and game balance you wont scory any points with me....not that you would want anyways
Savages destroys the game in more than one way, Albs agree now that we just Zerg the fuck out of them, i consider it a fair fight to lead 30 albs to 1fg mids with savages in it, I will assist hibs at anytime anywhere fighting savage groups Savage groups in the end kills of midgaard as a realm, because the elitism attitude in midgaard denies you of the good natured RVR players so you will mostly be outnumbered when you exclude half your possible rvr population. If I could I would arrange for hibs and albs to only rvr with each other and leave mids to themselves in empty zones, there are no glory, no fun, no achievement in fighting savage groups as the imbalance is so great that the matter of skills are indifferent.

yeah but u were doing this before the savage class was introduced and will continue long after the nerfs have come in

 

[Brisk Mordain]

Originally posted by Gordonax
What you really mean is "since they nerfed LA and you actually had to start using skill to win in RvR". Like Zzang does - and you obviously don't.

actually i havnt been playing for a while because i have been offline and also dont have a zerker anymore so its also kind of abviouse your an alb or are you just do this against me because i got you killed wwith m lvl 45 Skald in emain at alb wall when i was with 3 SB's? not my fault i dd'd you when you where nearly dead i just dd people who attack me anyway not been in midgard for a while either and last time i was i was lvling my lvl 1 warrior to lvl 33 then my 56k broke and im now waiting to get 512kb/s broadband

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.Emma
hello did i miss or something or are savages the only class that can below the melee speed cap ?

4*400 in 5 seconds means a swing speed of 1.25 seconds.

read my last post carefully again.

tho i bet Pin or someone already explained again.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Kagato.
Frankly no, in both buffed and unbuffed duels I have found I win/lose 50% of my duels with savages, and there even resistant to my damage type, and a 50/50 win ratio is about what I have with friars too so it seems quite even to me, it all depends on landing the stun or not.

Yes they need a nerf, but I don't think there as bad as everyone makes out, people just like to whine.

wouldn't bee supriced if you more or less only meet unbuffed savages. buffed savages are a real pain in the ass.

 

[Brisk Mordain]

i know this i knid of old but it makes sense first off though let me just say albs have enough people to zerge all 3 frontiers and still win.

right midgard is a "melee" realm so therefore they should have the hardest hitting tank in the game albs are mid based between melee and magic so they have o.k'ish wizzards and better than average tanks e.g. polearm which i know people say i crap but the first realm i went to was Alb Excal and i had a polearm armsman and the dmg was very good even if it was a little slow but its a big weapon so you cant hit as fast unlike the savage 2hnd which as you say hit 4 times in 5 seconds to kill you but they have haste and also as someone said some have BB's then hibernia they have as good as average melee fighters if not better great magicians and also good support class e.g. warden
because their the magic realm.

p.s. i dont care how much you flame this because that just shows the rest of the people who read it what your like so go ahead and flame as much as you like also this is the last post im making on this thread can't be bothered arguing

 

[Brisk Mordain]

Originally posted by Gahldir
wouldn't bee supriced if you more or less only meet unbuffed savages. buffed savages are a real pain in the ass.

sorry couldnt resist this ill make this my last post.

you have just explained the end of the argument right here yourself >buffed< savages are a real pain in the ass so what this thread should be called is ban BuffBots because thats all your really whining about.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Whisperess
Nice to see Kagato still using his head; when are the rest of you gonna start?

Oh and Fagane, any dual wielder or assisting tank will sort of bypass PBT ( one hit will be nullified though, same goes for savage ).

Time to wake up and smell the brimstone; people aren't using the slowest 2handers there is out there anymore. PBT is close to useless for every realm now ( only hibs has it for 'free' ). Runies specced out of it ( there's practically no runemaster with the best pbt in RvR these days, and not many with pbt at all ), why don't you do the same? ( oh: because it's wrong that you should have to? agreed. I think that too - but it's the same for runemasters )

Always find it funny how every savage swing speed discussion bring up the 'fact' that every god damn savage has it's own personal aug healer... do you have any idea how rare they are, or even how rare it is to get a -useful- celerity off in RvR?

And if you count on celerity to be up, you're not comparing savages vs other solo classes. You're comparing Savage+Healer combo vs other solo classes.

You constant whining will not help the situation.

Savages will get tweaked, yes. But due to the numbers most of you pull out of your behinds, they won't be fixed; but gutted completely.

And for you, that might be as good as a second christmas, but realise that there are people who leveled this ( and other mid-classes that will be next on the list ) -not- to be some overpowered frag-all monster in RvR.

There are some that liked the essence of the character, the beastiality of it. Blind rage and battle roars and whatnot. These people leveled that char up to 50, got to like how they filled that description brilliantly in PvE - only to see their class gutted due to some groups that had to 'wtfpwn' others in RvR. See it become something with soft purrs and a random 'Miau?'. Not until then will you be happy.

Note that the savage is mediocre without buffs. It however becomes a pure beast with the best buffs ( quite a few bots with mota4-5 inspecting bricks at mtk ) available - and that is what should be tweaked, not a generalized downgrade in efficiency even outside the battlefield and across the entire scale - buffs or not.

It hits the casual players harder than the hardcore players you're getting upset about, is that how it's supposed to be? Instead of making the diminishing returns in efficiency as the stats rise more noticable, they instead divide it across the entire scale.

You might chuckle when you read this, and already be hovering over the Reply button to insert an oh-so-funny 'QQ' remark. But I don't care. I'm not playing my savage unless someone in the guild has a need for me to. Reason why I'm not playing it is mostly due to your constant whining about made-up numbers and your refusal to approach it from a neutral viewpoint ( like some of the savages tried, but we got yelled at no matter how hard we tried ).

Those who didn't level it up to be a 'wtfpwn'er will not jump to the next class, 'cause there is no point in doing so. I've already seen you starting to shift into trying to nerf healers/shamans a bit now that you're getting your way with savages. ( not to mention Bonedancers and warrior "why should they have highest WS in game?" )

To be honest I'm starting to get real tired of it. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this. There's no point in rolling any class at all in mid, you'll whine anyway. It's never tweaks you're interested in either - it's taking away class-defining abilities, or cutting the damage into 1/4th or whatever.

Try looking at things from a neutral viewpoint, using realistic situations and thorough tests, for once.

these made up numbers comes from Pin, not a nobody. and afaik Pin hasn't been proved wrong alot. So pls drop the wajn about "made up numbers", cuz simple math does not take any side.

and I dunno why you find it so hard to get a celerity of in RvR. I do often have time to cast a few roots in the battle before anyone starts to get dmg enough so I have to heal.

edit: in some parts of your posts it sounds like you wilkl feel sorry about every guy with a savage when thier class gets nerfed and no longer live up to its wtfpwn expectation. But what about the X times as many ppl that have to face the overpowered savage in RvR? for the sake of the game savages needs to be toned down.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
i know this i knid of old but it makes sense first off though let me just say albs have enough people to zerge all 3 frontiers and still win.

Take a look at the population numbers, dimwit, and you will see how wrong you are. The "Alb outnumbers the other realms so much it's not funny" argument doesn't fly anymore.

right midgard is a "melee" realm so therefore they should have the hardest hitting tank in the game

All right then, please show me where Mythic officially say that Midgard is the melee realm. And why the heck should you have the best tanks because of this? All it means is that your classes are more melee-based than other realms. Again you're mindlessly rehashing something you read somewhere, trying to pass yourself off as knowledgeable.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
>buffed< savages are a real pain in the ass so what this thread should be called is ban BuffBots because thats all your really whining about.

Ahh, you really nailed it there, Sherlock! But did you consider the fact that an RvR group usually contains classes who can buff as well? Everyone is buffed in RvR, period.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
actually i havnt been playing for a while because i have been offline and also dont have a zerker anymore so its also kind of abviouse your an alb or are you just do this against me because i got you killed wwith m lvl 45 Skald in emain at alb wall when i was with 3 SB's? not my fault i dd'd you when you where nearly dead i just dd people who attack me anyway not been in midgard for a while either and last time i was i was lvling my lvl 1 warrior to lvl 33 then my 56k broke and im now waiting to get 512kb/s broadband

Mate, if you killed me (even with three SBs with you) fair play to you. I don't whine about being killed.

But you might want to check your memory. If by "Alb wall" you mean AMG Emain, then i probably wasn't me, as I don't go to emain all that often. If you mean HW, it might be me - but unlikely, as I don't often hangaround milegates.

The last time I got killed was in HOTC by a shaman and - oh, the shame - a level 47 hunter. And I still want to know what a small group of Mids is doing going into HOTC. Logging out there in preparation for something tonight, maybe? Shame I didn't find them...

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
right midgard is a "melee" realm so therefore they should have the hardest hitting tank

why?

hib doesn't have higher delve spells then alb and mid at the same level.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
sorry couldnt resist this ill make this my last post.

you have just explained the end of the argument right here yourself >buffed< savages are a real pain in the ass so what this thread should be called is ban BuffBots because thats all your really whining about.

yes and no. all RvR groups(i do not bother about solo ppl since they are a clear minority of the game) run around with classes that can buff so they would still be buffed from the start. tho buffbots are a clear advantage, cuz eventho if you drop the buffclasses the tanks still have buffs.

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by Gahldir
wouldn't bee supriced if you more or less only meet unbuffed savages. buffed savages are a real pain in the ass.

Check the bit where I said Buffed and Unbuffed duels

 

[Brisk Mordain]

mythic actually mention that midgard should be a melee realm i think its on the manual when it explains the realms if not try the website i know ive seen it about alb having enough to zerge all 3 frontiers was meant as a bit of a joke but also from what ive seen in my time in the frontiers it kinda looks possible so forgive me for making a jest to get flamed at wich i also said i would get flamed didnt i Gordonax i never said you whine about being killed i said it as a suggestion of chosing to flame my post out of atleast 5 others when all i have done is suggest reasons for savages being how they are i have never said that they didnt need bringing down a bit i only pointed out they have a haste buff aswell and whatever buffbots they have and Belomar all i did was point out it was the buffbots that overpower them and if you also read page 1 and 2 aswell you will see that it has been discussed that the savage was buffed with a buffbot and also i dont see why anyone would want to make a full aug shammy anyway without wanting it to be a buffbot cause thats just no fun at all. so what if i got a few things wrong nobodys perfect about everything and you cant say that not one of you has every got any fact wrong so stop picking on little things and read it without flaming it you can say that wrong and this is wrong but saying well done sherlock just to try to make people feel stupid is probably something a child would do. but theirs not stopping some so i guess this will get flamed aswell.

 

[Brisk Mordain]

im just leaving this discusson now its been said already that everyone agrees savages need bringing down but nerfing them is to much and that it would probably make more mids leave the realm so imo this discussion has ended.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
Belomar all i did was point out it was the buffbots that overpower them and if you also read page 1 and 2 aswell you will see that it has been discussed that the savage was buffed with a buffbot and also i dont see why anyone would want to make a full aug shammy anyway without wanting it to be a buffbot cause thats just no fun at all.

Shamans in most RvR groups are 42+ aug for end regen (something the Savages in the group do not even need currently). You think there is a big difference between the power of those buffs and a buffbot stood at the pk?

The only real difference is you can't kill the buffbot to drop the buffs on the rest of the group (not that it's easy to kill a well-played Shaman with 3 Healers backing him up).


The point is, you have to consider classes buffed for RvR.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
right midgard is a "melee" realm so therefore they should have the hardest hitting tank in the game

...

albs are mid based between melee and magic so they have o.k'ish wizzards and better than average tanks

...

hibernia they have as good as average melee fighters if not better great magicians and also good support class e.g. warden
because their the magic realm.

This 'melee realm' discussion is another VNism. The only reason Midgard was dubbed the 'melee realm' is due to them having more classes which are focused on melee, and fewer focused on magic. There is NO reason those classes should be 2x as powerful as melee chars from other realms.

Just as Hibernia has more magic-focused chars than the other realms. They don't have spells hitting for 2x the damage of other realms.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Kagato.
Check the bit where I said Buffed and Unbuffed duels

Yes, I know it's the type of play that both you and I enjoy, but duels mean shit.

In particular you are a polearmsman. You duel-winning-styles are useless in RvR.

What matters when comparing offensive tanks basically comes down to how fast can you shred support. In this area, you lose.

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
Gordonax i never said you whine about being killed i said it as a suggestion of chosing to flame my post out of atleast 5 others when all i have done is suggest reasons for savages.

You said zerkers and shadowblades were crap. I proved that in the hands of a good player they aren't. Simple as that really. And you suggested that I was picking you out because you'd killed me. Hell, Zoia's killed me lots of times and I don't pick on her. Hell, I couldn't - she'd beat me up or something

 

[Brisk Mordain]

told you someone would find some more small thing to pick out and flame but if thats what you do pin then i cant stop you so carry on also ive explained im sorry for getting things wrong and that killing you thing hehe lalia would have owned brisk anyway so i though oh well mayswel dd and fight so i did so and just before i did you got pa'd by a few sb's and i kinda got a lame kill which wasnt mine hehe.

also pin thanks for pointing out about the melee midgard magic hibernia inbetween albion thing think ill just agree if anyone flame anything else (its easier cause id probably make a fool out of myself) oh wait i already did that

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
told you someone would find some more small thing to pick out and flame but if thats what you do pin then i cant stop you

Firstly, it wasn't 'some small thing', it was several things which made up the bulk of your posts.

And secondly, I didn't flame anything. I replied to your statements and explained where (in my opinion) they were incorrect.

Sorry if you feel that anyone debating what you say is flaming

 

[Gordonax]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
lalia would have owned brisk anyway so i though oh well mayswel dd and fight so i did so and just before i did you got pa'd by a few sb's and i kinda got a lame kill which wasnt mine hehe.

Hey, it's so rare to find someone I can own I have to go for it

 

[necrofill]

Ihavnt read most of posts coz they r just flaming, whining etc.
And im not sure any have said it yet but the speed on savages there comes below speed cap (if they do) and that they can do 4x hit (u first have to evade then u can do a single hit style, the follow style is 3x and THEN u can do 4x) any time is f'cking BUG!!...

That mean u cant say they r over powered b4 the BUG is fixed.
If there r anything on savages there MAYBE should nerfs r it the end use on there style... low, very low and nothing


and btw i dont have any savages... play alb on excal and hib on pryd!!

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by Pin
Yes, I know it's the type of play that both you and I enjoy, but duels mean shit.

In particular you are a polearmsman. You duel-winning-styles are useless in RvR.

What matters when comparing offensive tanks basically comes down to how fast can you shred support. In this area, you lose.

Which has already been changed in 1.65 where my 'duel-winning-styles' get screwed over.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Kagato.
Which has already been changed in 1.65 where my 'duel-winning-styles' get screwed over.

Errr no. It gets changed to something which is useful in RvR.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by necrofill
Ihavnt read most of posts coz they r just flaming, whining etc.
And im not sure any have said it yet but the speed on savages there comes below speed cap (if they do) and that they can do 4x hit (u first have to evade then u can do a single hit style, the follow style is 3x and THEN u can do 4x) any time is f'cking BUG!!...

I suggest you learn to read.

Those styles have an effect "Hits multiple targets", not "Hits target multiple times".

Savages are able to hit a target multiple times on ANY combat round. Those styles have an additional effect.

That is not a bug.

Originally posted by necrofill
and btw i dont have any savages...

It shows

 

[iluvatur]

hi, i don't have any of the classes your debating and have little/no RvR experience .. but i'm gonna tell you how it is. and if you disagree ( even if your rr10 with 8 chars) i'm going to tell you your wrong, and that your an idiot... i'll probly flame you a little as well.

 

[necrofill]

Originally posted by Pin
I suggest you learn to read.

Those styles have an effect "Hits multiple targets", not "Hits target multiple times".

Savages are able to hit a target multiple times on ANY combat round. Those styles have an additional effect.

That is not a bug.



It shows

unless mystic líes u rigth but else.. plz look at this links (the links dont work coz im not supose from BW to post URLs :/, just copy paste them and delete the space betwen the letters)

w w w.camelotherald.com/styles/line.php?line=124

the style there hits 4 targets prerequisite 2 other style to be done first!!

and the other...

support .darkageofcamelot.com/cgi-bin/support.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=9DEXoUUg&p_lva=&p_refno=030603-000001&p_created=1054679798&p_sp=cF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM1JnBfY2F0X2x2bDE9NzAmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

(..sorry for the long link but blame mystic then)

scroll down to NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES and read!! Mysticsaid self it was a BUG they should have been fixed now but as i know (i have talk with some lvl 50 h2h savages) r the bug still here!!

...ofc i can be wrong and plz dont flame me if im!!

And btw dont rolleyes of ppl if they r wrong, it only shows u think u r better then other coz u maybe r rigth and if u can a little bit of latin u maybe have heard this b4 "errare humanum est", think a little bit over it + some of u other there think u better then others!! (and plz dont say i flame coz i dont i just want ppl to think a little bit over that they say b4 typing)

 

[behatch]

Originally posted by Brisk Mordain
your not going to whine about savages needing nerfs now are you? i mean you aready killed LA to make zerkers and SB's crap you still want to make yet anouter mid class crap we'll end up with hybreds only in midgard... and besides im glad you got killed couse you where killing lowbies in the first place

shadowblades are far from crap,arse bandit.zerkers aint to bad either-or zzang seems to do well