Relic Raid Blabbers - Part Two

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by Roalith
Krypt = teh original BW whingebag

Feel like posting something for or against the arguement?

Otherwise go make a whine thread about me somewhere else?

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by eben
Hey Krypt what you gonna say about hibs blabbing on IRC about the relic raid on them by albs to get str relic back?

Two wrongs don't make a right, feel free to make a thread about them. I wasn't up at that time.

But i'll let Drizzt do my talking.


"if you are a man of honour etc you dont raid at these times."

 

[granny]

Fact is that warnings about relic raids will *always* spread quickly via out-of-game means, whether it's IRC, instant messager apps, mobile phones etc etc.

This is impossible to stop and impossible police (prove, I mean PROVE to me that someone on IRC with the nick [TLW]Drizzt is the DAOC player Drizzt and not just some random spod on IRC with a spoofed IP address using that nick) for a start. What do you want, GOA to employ an army of people to sit on all popular DAOC-related IRC chans 24/7? That'll really help keep the monthly fee down won't it? So calling for bans on the basis of this supposed CoC violation is disengenuous in my opinion.

More importantly however is the fact that coming on these boards and whinging about it and blaming the "failure" of the relic raid on something spurious like this is just sad and detracts from the genuine good work and effort involved in these events. Hibs should be proud of themselves for a well-executed & organised relic raid that got away with 1 relic before most of Albion had wiped the sleep from their eyes - good work.

In response Albs should be very proud of the rapid & very well-organised defence, retake of keeps and eventual re-take of the relic in the wee hours this morning.

In my book yesterday was a great day in Prydwen's RvR history and was superb fun - don't let some petty gripes about something impossible to prevent spoil your fun.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Then use mobile phones. I doubt you can contact as many people just so quick.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Teh Krypt
Then use mobile phones. I doubt you can contact as many people just so quick.

Point missed.

Krypt, tell us, what you have GOA do? Ban accounts because someone posts on BW boards a bit of text allegedly copied from IRC of someone allegedly warning about a relic raid?

Think about it... please. It's like the person (forget who) who actually said that simply being accused of using radar should get your account suspended while an investigation takes place. It's nonsense, utter nonsense.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by granny
Point missed.

Krypt, tell us, what you have GOA do? Ban accounts because someone posts on BW boards a bit of text allegedly copied from IRC of someone allegedly warning about a relic raid?

Think about it... please. It's like the person (forget who) who actually said that simply being accused of using radar should get your account suspended while an investigation takes place. It's nonsense, utter nonsense.

Ingame Guild Masters could do something?
People ingame could make a stance that at least moraly its wrong and not group with the guy.

 

[Edlina]

Originally posted by granny
Point missed.

Krypt, tell us, what you have GOA do? Ban accounts because someone posts on BW boards a bit of text allegedly copied from IRC of someone allegedly warning about a relic raid?

Think about it... please. It's like the person (forget who) who actually said that simply being accused of using radar should get your account suspended while an investigation takes place. It's nonsense, utter nonsense.

He in THIS thread admitted to saying those things on irc, so if he himself admitted it, I don't see any reason to think it wasn't him (drizzt).

Next time read the thread before you comment.

 

[Turamber]

If people will insist on using IRC whilst playing then, IMHO, you have to expect that they will talk about relic raids that are going down. People are using IRC to talk about what is happening in-game, and what more important event is there than a relic raid in end game DAOC?

Sure it might not be exactly how the game was intended to be played - but was it intended that people from different realms be able to talk to each other at all during their online time? Nope.

The problem lies not so much with people talking about ongoing relic raids but with the widespread use of IRC.



NB Copied from the other whine thread on this forum.

 

[Teh Krypt]

Originally posted by Turamber
If people will insist on using IRC whilst playing then, IMHO, you have to expect that they will talk about relic raids that are going down. People are using IRC to talk about what is happening in-game, and what more important event is there than a relic raid in end game DAOC?

Sure it might not be exactly how the game was intended to be played - but was it intended that people from different realms be able to talk to each other at all during their online time? Nope.

The problem lies not so much with people talking about ongoing relic raids but with the widespread use of IRC.



NB Copied from the other whine thread on this forum.

The problem lies with people talking about ongoing relic raids, if they didnt do so we wouldnt have the dam problem.

Thus people should make a stance and not group with people like that.

 

[Damon_D]

blabbering about a relic raid on a public irc chanel is lame..no matter what silly excuses you come up with

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by granny
Fact is that warnings about relic raids will *always* spread quickly via out-of-game means, whether it's IRC, instant messager apps, mobile phones etc etc.

This is impossible to stop and impossible police (prove, I mean PROVE to me that someone on IRC with the nick [TLW]Drizzt is the DAOC player Drizzt and not just some random spod on IRC with a spoofed IP address using that nick) for a start. What do you want, GOA to employ an army of people to sit on all popular DAOC-related IRC chans 24/7? That'll really help keep the monthly fee down won't it? So calling for bans on the basis of this supposed CoC violation is disengenuous in my opinion.

Naughty ol'Granny

Relic-Raid news will spread quickly, but IRC is the most efficient and therefore the worst way to spread it. You don't know half the people in #daoc.prydwen, which has hundreds of players in there at any one time. Can you phone/text/IM that many players in two seconds?


It's not for GOA to police IRC channels but the channel ops can, and upon joining #daoc.prydwen you're told:
"KB: Ads/Spammers/Bugabusers/Cheaters/Relicraidblabbers"

Kick/Ban for those offenders and while that keeps most people from blabbering there's always one who can't ressist. It's for the channel ops to do the banning and hope that one day there will be a RR without blabbering.


You want proof that [TLW]Drizzt is the player Drizzt?
Can you prove it wasn't him? In this world you're guilty until proven innocent and I've seen nothing to suggest Drizzt was framed. The forum identity "gwyneth-love" claims to be Drizzt and accepts blabbering in IRC. All you need do is ask Drizzt if he posts here as "gwyneth-love" and you'll have your answer.

Originally posted by granny
More importantly however is the fact that coming on these boards and whinging about it and blaming the "failure" of the relic raid on something spurious like this is just sad and detracts from the genuine good work and effort involved in these events. Hibs should be proud of themselves for a well-executed & organised relic raid that got away with 1 relic before most of Albion had wiped the sleep from their eyes - good work.

Give proof that the IRC blabbering did not affect the raid at all. If even one person logged in to Excalibur, the raid was affected and possibly turned the tide against Hibernia. Telling the hibs to forget about it because they made a good effort and Albion would've stopped them anyway... is nonsense. Their raid was compromised and at the least Albs should accept this.


It's not for GOA to stretch it's resources and find blabbers. This is something players must do and guilds should act on, should a blabber be found in their ranks.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Edlina
He in THIS thread admitted to saying those things on irc, so if he himself admitted it, I don't see any reason to think it wasn't him (drizzt).

Next time read the thread before you comment.

Learn the difference between specific accusations (which I wasn't making) and generalisations (which I was making) before being needlessly rude please. And you might want to try reading what people post before flaming them, it tends to make you look less like a retard, thanks.

Originally posted by Generic Poster
In this world you're guilty until proven innocent and I've seen nothing to suggest Drizzt was framed.

Again, I'm neither implying nor suggesting that Drizzt is being framed, that's not the issue here. The issue is that people have been calling, in this thread, for DAOC account bans on the basis of something unprovable. IRC kicks/bans are completely immaterial and inneffectual since if that was all that happened then someone who wanted to blab on IRC would simply log onto IRC with a different nick/auth than their usual one. Sure, you can get ops of popular & busy channels to instigate a kick/ban policy for raid blabbers but all you'll do is create a false sense of security. You won't actually stop it happening. And "guilty until proven innocent" is plainly unacceptable when you're talking about banning people's accounts.

A few people contributing to this thread appear to be stuck very firmly on moral high-chairs yet are simply not considering the practical implications of their increasingly shrill requests. At no point have I condoned spreading relic raid information on IRC, I'm just trying to be a voice of reason here and pointing out that some of the things people are calling for are dangerous and unworkable.

 

[Generic Poster]

I don't expect GOA to ban account for things like this, but the realm as a whole, needs to understand the trouble IRC can cause during relic raids. Most Albs posting here are of the opinion that the 'blabbering' did not cause any harm and don't see what the fuss is about.


Those same albs will start complaining in 2 months time that Hibs never attempt relic raids

 

[Lochlyessa]

Go read Prydwen.net, quite a few hibs on there are saying that 'blabbing about rr's' on irc is acceptable in their eyes also.. yet they come onto BW and flame albs? Please, stop the hypocrisy and get a clue.

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Teh Krypt
Then use mobile phones. I doubt you can contact as many people just so quick.

If using mobile phones is acceptable then so is IRC. They are both methods of communicating outside the game. Which is what the problem is. Also you should ban all the chit-chat cross realm, talking about a relic raid is just the same as a keep raid and just the same as an RvR skirmish. Sure they might affect more people but its the exact same principles.

When relic raids happen I tell my brother to get online, and help out, Im sure it totally ruins all your raids by informing people not in-game about whats happening!

 

[thorungla]

Anyone that thinks it is acceptable, actually announces the information themselves, or even defends it, knows they are wrong. If you dont then you need to consider your personal morals and ethics, cause real life will more than likely be a tough, unsatisfactory and lonely place. Good luck.

As for the issue of what can be done. Apart from everyone just becoming honest individuals, dont lower yourself to their level, dont associate with anyone you know that acts in this manner, and for those with any sort of position of resposibility, be they IRC ops, guild GM's, do what you can to prevent such selfish people from spoiling others enjoyment.

I often wonder just how many people do read the EULA and COC, let alone even care what it means. Perhaps you should.

 

[Meatballs]

Talking about a game on IRC is morally unacceptable.

 

[thorungla]

Contributing to respect for the Charter

Help us to make the site and the game a place of conviviality and community. You can do this by respecting the Charter and encouraging others to respect it. If you meet users who do not seem to have understood the Charter, politely invite them to read it....... Users are expected to show respect for one another.


'Respect' a useful word within this small exerpt from the COC, to try and help those less thoughtful towards the hundreds of people they seem to forget they are playing with ingame.


Good night for now - have fun.

 

[Edlina]

Originally posted by Lochlyessa
Go read Prydwen.net, quite a few hibs on there are saying that 'blabbing about rr's' on irc is acceptable in their eyes also.. yet they come onto BW and flame albs? Please, stop the hypocrisy and get a clue.

And quite a lot others <points at self> are telling them "No irc is not fair in any way and shouldn't be used, now go apologice on alb forums at BW Xzzx" in case you on purpose didn't read my posts I make it very clear.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Look, who cares who else does it. Other people doing it doesn't make it any less lame. There have been times that I heard on IRC that Albs were attacking Dagda (Hib) and that made me log in.

It's lame, it spoils planning, and no amount of excuses from anyone makes it "ok".

What's even sadder, is that some people defend others saying it on IRC. My gawd.

-G

 

[Damon_D]

Totaly agree... peopel who do this sort of thing should be frozen out... do not group with them , do not sell them stuff , kick them from there guilds..only way to get ride of those cheating scumbags

 

[Lochlyessa]

Originally posted by Edlina
And quite a lot others <points at self> are telling them "No irc is not fair in any way and shouldn't be used, now go apologice on alb forums at BW Xzzx" in case you on purpose didn't read my posts I make it very clear.

Ah, so you represent all of hib? Nice.

 

[Jonaldo]

Loch = n00b

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by Meatballs
If using mobile phones is acceptable then so is IRC. They are both methods of communicating outside the game. Which is what the problem is. Also you should ban all the chit-chat cross realm, talking about a relic raid is just the same as a keep raid and just the same as an RvR skirmish. Sure they might affect more people but its the exact same principles.

When relic raids happen I tell my brother to get online, and help out, Im sure it totally ruins all your raids by informing people not in-game about whats happening!

Dude, you is not getting it.
When a RR is on and you phone your friends, ok.
But do you phone up Mid players aswell, and would it be cross-realming if you did?


RR is not the same as keepraid or zerging, not even in principle. In skirmishes, you zerg or get zerged. No matter, you're the only ones effected. In keepraid, if the keep is taken your whole realm is effected, you lose DF and have less relic guards, your relics are threatened. Different to zerging, no?
In RR, you lose relics and your damage output is reduced - for the whole realm. Your enemies now have an advantage over you and you die faster. Different to keepraid, which is different to zergs, no?

Zerging isn't even in the same league as relic-raids. The implications of success or failiure far outweigh those of dying and /release in Emain. In the same way making phone calls, and squealing in IRC are different. IRC is in a different league.


I'll put it this way, you drop your pants for your woman, yes?
But do you go to MacDonalds and strip infront of 50 people?
Why wouldn't you? In principle it's the same, you're getting naked for fellow humans.

Or is one not the same as the other?

 

[Teh Krypt]

Hot saucy men driping with beefburger fat in McD's

/drool

 

[Edlina]

Originally posted by Lochlyessa
Ah, so you represent all of hib? Nice.

Ah, so you represent all of alb? nice.

oh and I didn't say that btw

 

[Lochlyessa]

Where did I claim to represent all of albion?
I said that because you replied with 'no, hibs aren't being hypocritical, I've told him to apologise' when I mentioned pryd.net. So, I asked if you = All of hibernia. Obviously you're not, but seemingly the only thing that the current crop of hibs on BW can do is try and turn things around on people like a playschool fight, so that's understandable if you didn't actually understand a word I said.


PS: After reading prydwen.net, and looking through some stats.. You keep saying that hibernia is dying? That's not actually true on 90% of the servers out there, including US ones. So, why you ask, is Hib/pryd's population dying? If I was you, I'd look to your own community before trying to lay the blame on Albion, which is heh.. the 2nd biggest population on prydwen fyi.


PPS: To all the hibs that keep saying 'Well hibs will never RR again, it's pointless'.. Good, that was the idea, kthx and goodbye from me.

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Generic Poster

Zerging isn't even in the same league as relic-raids. The implications of success or failiure far outweigh those of dying and /release in Emain. In the same way making phone calls, and squealing in IRC are different. IRC is in a different league.

You dont what I mean, but you confirm what I said, its not in the same league but its the same sport... Sure the implications of it arn't exactly the same, but if some mid asks mid players on IRC to come to emain and we get zerged, and then I die, do I enjoy it? (Well I might enjoy more action, just like Hibs might enjoy more defence but thats neither here nor there )

Originally posted by Generic Poster
When a RR is on and you phone your friends, ok.
But do you phone up Mid players aswell, and would it be cross-realming if you did?

Aye but thats not what the argument is about, Krypt is complaining that Drizzt rallied Albion defenders by using a medium outside of the game (IRC). Cross-realming isn't against the CoC as far as I'm aware. If Mids dominated the server 6 players to 1 in Alb/Hib I'd expect it to be encouraged as its a dynamic system kinda thingehmehbob

Originally posted by Generic Poster
I'll put it this way, you drop your pants for your woman, yes?
But do you go to MacDonalds and strip infront of 50 people?
Why wouldn't you? In principle it's the same, you're getting naked for fellow humans.

Or is one not the same as the other?

I think this example works better, If you shoot someone, you're a murderer, if you shoot 200 people you're still a (mass) murderer.

And people shouldn't be so uptight about nekkid people its bloody natural innit

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Generic Poster
RR is not the same as keepraid or zerging, not even in principle.

Oh and another thing, RR is a part of the Realm War. Keep Raid is part of the Realm War. Zerging is part of the Realm War. The end game is Realm Versus Realm. How are they different in principle?

 

[eben]

Originally posted by Teh Krypt
Two wrongs don't make a right, feel free to make a thread about them. I wasn't up at that time.

But i'll let Drizzt do my talking.


"if you are a man of honour etc you dont raid at these times."

Come on Krypt...you made such a severe song and dance about alleged alb blabber on IRC. I want to hear what your stance is on hibs blabbing on IRC. I don't give a monkeys about what others say. I want YOU to condemn hibbies for yelling on IRC. No politician's answers...just say you CONDEMN HIBBIE RELIC RAID CHAT ON IRC.

Of course I'm happy for you to condemn albs and mids too; however, please show use you do have some principals after all.

And where the fuck is your spirit cabby ?