Radar, I found something interesting on the German Boards

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Icebreaker

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With this we start:

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1315.shtml

And one German made those posts, he doesnt give a link to those posts. He just posted some interesting parts in the german forum:

Zitat:

They were idiots. Basically they enabled the GM "flymode" in the client. This is actually quite easy to do since it is a client-side check which turns it on. The reason these guys got caught was the basic speedhack code that Mythic has in place. They moved too fast, speedhack alarm went off, busted. I give them 5 points for style, but -350986 points for not thinking that they'd set off the only hack protection Mythic has.

There's a boolean value on the client, which has to be set by the server. Once it is turned on, there are quite a few GM /commands which are enabled. Flymode and warp are two of those. Basically all someone has to do it flip on the bool with a quick WriteProcessMemory and they're good to go. I saw back in 2001 and I'm suprised it's taken someone so long to do it.

After this one he posted a funky list for the US Servers with the amount of ppl who used atleast one time Radar:

People who have tried XXX by Server / Realm
Report generated on: 2004-Feb-08

Galahad: (129) Albion: 24% Midgard: 44% Hibernia: 30%
Mordred: (417) Albion: 30% Midgard: 28% Hibernia: 41%
Percival: (148) Albion: 26% Midgard: 40% Hibernia: 33%
MorganLeFay: (186) Albion: 20% Midgard: 34% Hibernia: 44%
Igraine: ( 57) Albion: 54% Midgard: 21% Hibernia: 24%
Merlin: (301) Albion: 20% Midgard: 36% Hibernia: 43%
Palomides: ( 92) Albion: 17% Midgard: 50% Hibernia: 32%
Guinevere: (192) Albion: 31% Midgard: 30% Hibernia: 38%
Lancelot: (196) Albion: 25% Midgard: 25% Hibernia: 49%
Pellinor: ( 91) Albion: 20% Midgard: 40% Hibernia: 38%
Bedevere: ( 71) Albion: 35% Midgard: 35% Hibernia: 29%
Gaheris: ( 53) Albion: 33% Midgard: 20% Hibernia: 45%
Gawaine: ( 95) Albion: 18% Midgard: 37% Hibernia: 43%
Kay: ( 87) Albion: 50% Midgard: 24% Hibernia: 25%
Nimue: ( 54) Albion: 20% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 50%
Tristan: (100) Albion: 21% Midgard: 43% Hibernia: 36%
Iseult: ( 89) Albion: 28% Midgard: 31% Hibernia: 40%
Bors: ( 75) Albion: 29% Midgard: 34% Hibernia: 36%
Pendragon: ( 14) Albion: 42% Midgard: 35% Hibernia: 21%


and here Mythic reacted on it with the Pach 1.68c

Zitat:

Update: Mythic has done a wonderful job with these changes.

* They don't hand off the key in plantext any more
* They use all new symmetric encryption, one for outgoing, one for incoming it seems
* They've renumbered allllll the packets.

It's really beautiful!

(...)

Breaking a memory based radar is a lot harder, since the client already does all the work and you just read his results. There can be ways to make it more work for those radar developers, so let's see if they do that.

As for skilla, it's dead. If someone picks it up, they're going to have to break the RSA encryption to get the key, rewrite all the symmetric encryption algorithms, and figure out the new numbers of all the packet types. Of course, every patch can change some of those things, so it's like a full time job.


.

And at the end another list for our servers. Quite impressive how many ppl used/use Radar. :(


193.252.123.45: (115) Albion: 37% Midgard: 25% Hibernia: 37% <---- Avalon
193.252.123.153: ( 91) Albion: 14% Midgard: 40% Hibernia: 45% <---- Dartmoor
193.252.123.134: ( 9 Albion: 47% Midgard: 27% Hibernia: 24% <---- Logres
193.252.123.33: (199) Albion: 28% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 41% Excalibur
193.252.123.11: (177) Albion: 36% Midgard: 35% Hibernia: 28% <---- Lyonesse
193.252.123.177: (122) Albion: 41% Midgard: 27% Hibernia: 30% Prydwen
193.252.123.14: (106) Albion: 23% Midgard: 38% Hibernia: 37% <---- Stonehenge
193.252.123.147: (115) Albion: 37% Midgard: 31% Hibernia: 31% Camlann
193.252.123.139: ( 23) Albion: 43% Midgard: 47% Hibernia: 8%
193.252.123.34: ( 49) Albion: 42% Midgard: 20% Hibernia: 36%
193.252.123.171: ( 21) Albion: 14% Midgard: 61% Hibernia: 23%
193.252.123.12: ( 39) Albion: 30% Midgard: 28% Hibernia: 41%
 

bult

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Doubt those numbers are 100% acurate, seems logical about half is just people who have tested it then not used it again to see how it works? maybe not half but many i think. Still quite scary figures :(

And look at the pvp server (mordred) lol so many :i
 

bult

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Nice number on Logres btw, how big is the playerbase there?
 

Moo

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dont get me wrong but how the hell can that report be anything other than speculation?
 

bult

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Moo said:
dont get me wrong but how the hell can that report be anything other than speculation?
Its the developer of the radar program that posted the figures, but it dont show people that actively use the radar just ppl that have downloaded some file from him or so. Dunno were you can get the original post maybe its on VN or some personal site of his.
 

Driwen

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the number of radar users is based on amount of people who downloaded a certain map of an area (connacht for hibbies and others zones for mids/albs iirc). This means that those numbers are prolly higher than the amount of people who actually used radar, it also could be that some of those people just used it once, the amount of time the measurement is about it unsure and this is just about one program, so you cant say anything about which realm/server cheats more as it could simply be that the cheaters on exc/hib seems to use cheat a while exc/mid use cheat b (and between different (language) servers this can be more expected).

link to where these numbers were discussed on daoc>general: https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=3933
 

Moo

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which radar program?

theres about 4 working ones last count
 

Asha

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that explains knowing the number of ppl who d/l the program, but not how he knows what server they play ?

Alot of ppl play multiple servers too...

I would like to think these numbers aren't true :(

Also I don't know what his %s are based off... Active accounts? That is not a reflection of active RvR players...
 

Asty

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Wonder how he can see in what servers its used. But if the numbers are true its pretty bad :(
 

foolou

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Give 1.68c then asap for the europe servers, it's really about time.
 

jakob

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Asty said:
Wonder how he can see in what servers its used. But if the numbers are true its pretty bad :(
Without being 100% sure about this but afaik ppl pay for this particular program. Whenever they use it, it will log on to a authentication server, so that's how he gets the numbers.
 

Gargo

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A lot of stuff to read there so I scrolled a bit and saw
193.252.123.33: (199) Albion: 28% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 41% Excalibur
Thats pretty sick and I find it hard to believe its so widely used :( , experienced perhaps, 1 maybe 2 cases of radar use by un-named mid guilds. Dont understand why they do it anyway, I mean, I'd probably get no pleasure from cheating, its like bragging that you beat a certain guild in a FG fight, when infact you had 2 stealth adds. Whats the fun in winning when you know you had to cheat to do it.

Anyhow, quite shocking at those numbers, if its correct. Very shocking to see hib with 41% o_O

If you want to cheat, go play a console game where your actions dont affect others imho.
 

Gordonax

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jakob said:
Without being 100% sure about this but afaik ppl pay for this particular program. Whenever they use it, it will log on to a authentication server, so that's how he gets the numbers.
No, it's not *that* program. It's *the other* one... the GPL'd one...
 

Gordonax

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Gargo said:
A lot of stuff to read there so I scrolled a bit and saw
193.252.123.33: (199) Albion: 28% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 41% Excalibur
Thats pretty sick and I find it hard to believe its so widely used :( , experienced perhaps, 1 maybe 2 cases of radar use by un-named mid guilds. Dont understand why they do it anyway, I mean, I'd probably get no pleasure from cheating, its like bragging that you beat a certain guild in a FG fight, when infact you had 2 stealth adds. Whats the fun in winning when you know you had to cheat to do it.

Anyhow, quite shocking at those numbers, if its correct. Very shocking to see hib with 41% o_O
Whoa there, it's not as bad as you think: it doesn't mean that 41% of the population are cheating, it means that 41% of the 199 people that downloaded it are from Hib: so 81 peeps in total, which isn't so bad. Of course, that's only the second-most popular radar. The biggest one - the paid for one - hasn't released any figures.
 

Gargo

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Gordonax said:
Whoa there, it's not as bad as you think: it doesn't mean that 41% of the population are cheating, it means that 41% of the 199 people that downloaded it are from Hib: so 81 peeps in total, which isn't so bad. Of course, that's only the second-most popular radar. The biggest one - the paid for one - hasn't released any figures.
Ohhh, I understand now :x 81 is still alot tho, can only hazzard a guess at the actual total, if theres a different more popular version? Still scarey ;/
 

Glottis

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Seems Pin was roughly right with his estimate, he was a bit on the high side, but still. He figured 10% of each realm cheated.
81 people in Hibernia cheating is a lot higher percentage than the 56 cheating in Albion, but maybe because of their population discreptancy they felt a stronger need to avoid the Alb zergs.

I did not know Mythic had implemented new encryption with the 1.68 code. Great job, online games fall or stand really with the amount of cheating that can be done. Eliminate the cheating, and people will stay longer.
Regards, Glottis
 

Tiki

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I just really hope they could display a list of individuals to name and shame would be nice to know ;)
 

Chiefthunder

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Tiki said:
I just really hope they could display a list of individuals to name and shame would be nice to know ;)
just ban em all!! every1 of them!! no /whine or regret or whatever, just ban them all !! no exceptions!
 

Moo

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i repeat
theres like 4 programs not including unleashed

so assuming this one is excalibar that still leaves a lot of numbers unaccounted for
 

Pin

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Glottis said:
Seems Pin was roughly right with his estimate, he was a bit on the high side, but still. He figured 10% of each realm cheated.
81 people in Hibernia cheating is a lot higher percentage than the 56 cheating in Albion, but maybe because of their population discreptancy they felt a stronger need to avoid the Alb zergs.
:eek7:
I don't remember ever making such 'estimates'.
 

Kinad

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Yes some use, but i dont think that many.

As a stealther i watch how people run, where they run, and which enemies/friends in the area.
I quite often see both mid and hib groups miss a lot of non stealthed albs,
that includes groups from rvr guilds too.
 

Glottis

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Pin said:
:eek7:
I don't remember ever making such 'estimates'.
Hmm, was doubting if it was you or Aussie then. Bleh, cannot be arsed to look it up. Anyway, thought it was you who said it, but guess I was wrong.
Regards, Glottis
 

Aussie

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193.252.123.33: (199) Albion: 28% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 41% Excalibur

thats from 1 day from 1 cheat. and there are several working cheats...
so lets double this number. and take the average of 2400 ppl/day playing on excal.
makes that 1/6-7 cheats :O
 

censi

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those figures dont mean jack shit really.

I know the community well enough to say with 100% certaincy that 40% of hibs player base do not use radar.

Dunno what this data is really meassuring. but pretty inclined to believe its just made up.
 

Gordonax

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Aussie said:
193.252.123.33: (199) Albion: 28% Midgard: 29% Hibernia: 41% Excalibur

thats from 1 day from 1 cheat. and there are several working cheats...
so lets double this number. and take the average of 2400 ppl/day playing on excal.
makes that 1/6-7 cheats :O
Actually, no, that's not from one day: that's total downloaded (only of the Windows version though, not the Linux one that you run on a second machine).

So assuming that 50% of those who've downloaded it use it regularly (high imho), and that The Best Known Cheat Program has around double the numbers, you're talking about 300 people who regularly use cheats, out of a server pop of around 3500 regular players - less than 10%.
 

Gordonax

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censi said:
those figures dont mean jack shit really.

I know the community well enough to say with 100% certaincy that 40% of hibs player base do not use radar.
that's not what it says: it means that 41% of the 199 downloads are for Hibs - not that 41% of all Hibs use radar.
 
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