Question on Class Balance (Assassin Specific i guess)

[Urgat]

So, there was a distinct lack of groups needing my toon yesterday on mid, so i decided to grab some buffs from a guildy and have a run out solo.

I get a boat to Alb, and skim HW for fights. As i am running around i am attacked by an Inf. He missed pa, so i extend, Pop the ml2 warlord heal, turn round, dd him twice, mezz, wait for recycle start the back chain, and dd him twice again.

I wait for the first hit from him, then purge the Dot and WS debuff.

He tore me appart in 4 or 5 shots. :/

Yes, i am RR3, yes he was RR6 (iirc) Yes i am not quite fully templated yet (but not far off)

My question is...

Am i the only person who feels a RR3 fully buffed Skald, with a decent set of gear, should at least have a chance versus a RR6 assasin? They guy tore through me in a straight melee... (thats an assasin... a "caster killer"... beating a Two handed Tank, in less time than it took me to hit IP1 and the malice ability.)


Having played an inf to RR5 on glast, i was occasionally able to take on a tank and win... but it was bloody close...

TOA'ed assasins are broken IMO. A class designed to hunt support and other stealthers should NOT be able walk all over a Tank in a straight fight.

<sigh>

I cant be the only one who thinks this no?

 

[Reformed]

Well lets face it everyone's power is out of control. Buffs and TOA? All rocket ships now. People are on about server population but how does a newbie stand anychance with just one account? How do you fancy trying to best that inf without buffs? Pity the game has come to this as I do think the damage output and speed of everyone isn't helping game play - far from it. No idea how to stop it now either since the Classic server isn't popular. It seems people really enjoy having 2 accounts and being supercharged. When you think about it that is how other rpg games are so the players are not to blame for getting the best for their alts. Personally I would prefer much less damage and longer fights. Longer fights = far more fun in my books.

A thought provoking solution to buffing and SC?

I think there is a solution as far as buffing is concerned though and that is for a maximum buff limit that can be reached when an alt doesn't have any sc. A non buffed sc'd guy though could get to the same limit. Viola = a level playing field. TOA toned down or maybe removed and I should think everyone would be far happier. 2 account guys would still be happy and a single account guy could get busy with crafting. A 2 account guy with buffbot and sc - well I bet he would still run the 2 accounts for sure. Also the benefit from sc ofcourse would be higher resists etc. Pretty sure the game would be a lot sweeter for the above.

 

[Azathrim]

My guess is:

He had his cleric spec AF buff up, while you didn't have any spec AF buff.

 

[Gahn]

So, there was a distinct lack of groups needing my toon yesterday on mid, so i decided to grab some buffs from a guildy and have a run out solo.

I get a boat to Alb, and skim HW for fights. As i am running around i am attacked by an Inf. He missed pa, so i extend, Pop the ml2 warlord heal, turn round, dd him twice, mezz, wait for recycle start the back chain, and dd him twice again.

I wait for the first hit from him, then purge the Dot and WS debuff.

He tore me appart in 4 or 5 shots. :/

Yes, i am RR3, yes he was RR6 (iirc) Yes i am not quite fully templated yet (but not far off)

My question is...

Am i the only person who feels a RR3 fully buffed Skald, with a decent set of gear, should at least have a chance versus a RR6 assasin? They guy tore through me in a straight melee... (thats an assasin... a "caster killer"... beating a Two handed Tank, in less time than it took me to hit IP1 and the malice ability.)


Having played an inf to RR5 on glast, i was occasionally able to take on a tank and win... but it was bloody close...

TOA'ed assasins are broken IMO. A class designed to hunt support and other stealthers should NOT be able walk all over a Tank in a straight fight.

<sigh>

I cant be the only one who thinks this no?

U ain't a a tank for starters xD

 

[Penlid]

Skalds are tanks for mids imo Especially in the group i run in on merlin where i am MA :<

 

[Gear]

So, there was a distinct lack of groups needing my toon yesterday on mid, so i decided to grab some buffs from a guildy and have a run out solo.

I get a boat to Alb, and skim HW for fights. As i am running around i am attacked by an Inf. He missed pa, so i extend, Pop the ml2 warlord heal, turn round, dd him twice, mezz, wait for recycle start the back chain, and dd him twice again.

I wait for the first hit from him, then purge the Dot and WS debuff.

He tore me appart in 4 or 5 shots. :/

Yes, i am RR3, yes he was RR6 (iirc) Yes i am not quite fully templated yet (but not far off)

My question is...

Am i the only person who feels a RR3 fully buffed Skald, with a decent set of gear, should at least have a chance versus a RR6 assasin? They guy tore through me in a straight melee... (thats an assasin... a "caster killer"... beating a Two handed Tank, in less time than it took me to hit IP1 and the malice ability.)


Having played an inf to RR5 on glast, i was occasionally able to take on a tank and win... but it was bloody close...

TOA'ed assasins are broken IMO. A class designed to hunt support and other stealthers should NOT be able walk all over a Tank in a straight fight.

<sigh>

I cant be the only one who thinks this no?

An RR3 skald has no chance vs an RR6 infi who knows how to play. You're using a 2 hander vs a class with evade 7, that can reapply poisons, has a dot-mine as well, as it's already been said you were most likely not using AF charges.

I'm assuming he just pulled of an evade chain on you, and yes you're right, that's 4 or 5 shots to get you down since your abs was lowered by 5.

Sorry, but that's how it is. Also, you'll find that stealthers are kinda very perfectionists when it comes to their templates. Are you?

 

[Urgat]

U ain't a a tank for starters xD

Haha

a fair comment...

but my point still stands... a class designed to hunt support and others of its kind ripped through a chain wearing, 2handed swinging troll. (Before i even swung the hammer a second time after the back style)

without using his "signature" combat style (PA chain)

it was for all intents and purposes a straight melee. And he went through me like a dose of salts, i have absolutly no chance whatsoever.

I have to say, the classic ruleset (no buffs, no TOA) was mutch mutch better. (i wouldnt have dared take on a decent RR tank on my inf... the way it should be... IMO)

I would be interested to hear some assasin players thoughts on this...

 

[Overdriven]

You screwed up on your first attack.

DD-DD-Melee-DD-DD (again if you can) - MEZZ - Heal - DD DD - Back Style.

 

[Urgat]

An RR3 skald has no chance vs an RR6 infi who knows how to play. You're using a 2 hander vs a class with evade 7, that can reapply poisons, has a dot-mine as well, as it's already been said you were most likely not using AF charges.

I'm assuming he just pulled of an evade chain on you, and yes you're right, that's 4 or 5 shots to get you down since your abs was lowered by 5.

Sorry, but that's how it is. Also, you'll find that stealthers are kinda very perfectionists when it comes to their templates. Are you?

Aye, i can clearly see that is "how it is"

what i am asking is... do people think "how it is" is right?

I for one dont. A class designed to straight out Melee (skald) should at least have a CHANCE against a class designed to take support out (inf). If that chance doesnt exist, then something isnt right in my opinion.

<shrug>

i guess solo is out for me till i am much much higher RR... then i can rely on a quickbar of RA / ML buttons to win fights instead of using the classes abilities.

 

[Urgat]

You screwed up on your first attack.

DD-DD-Melee-DD-DD (again if you can) - MEZZ - Heal - DD DD - Back Style.

Interesting, ill bare that in mind... thanks.

 

[Neffneff]

when you say you aint templated....what exactly does this mean? how many HPs have you got? what are your resists like?

if you got low hits, and a lacking resist..then yea..a RR6 infil fully templated and geared up, IS going to RIP you apart.


nothing wrong with that.

 

[Gahn]

Skalds are tanks for mids imo Especially in the group i run in on merlin where i am MA :<

they are Hybrids ofc and u know it quite good -.-

 

[Gahn]

Haha

a fair comment...

but my point still stands... a class designed to hunt support and others of its kind ripped through a chain wearing, 2handed swinging troll. (Before i even swung the hammer a second time after the back style)

without using his "signature" combat style (PA chain)

it was for all intents and purposes a straight melee. And he went through me like a dose of salts, i have absolutly no chance whatsoever.

I have to say, the classic ruleset (no buffs, no TOA) was mutch mutch better. (i wouldnt have dared take on a decent RR tank on my inf... the way it should be... IMO)

I would be interested to hear some assasin players thoughts on this...

There are tons of variables that can swing a fight in your favor or not, he was using LWs/He was thrust and GS procced? He had an huge lucky streak of evades? He had Som up? He battlered ya?
My comment, even if a bit hilarious, still stands also, i took down rr7-8 skalds with my ns at rr4 :/
Assassins with garrote and ws debuff and poisons aren't the softer targets u can imagine to get as a Skald.
And ye to efficiently solo u need a good (i'd say more than average almost perfect) template, some charges (Haste and or AF, end regen etc) and at least all your MLs and CLs.

 

[Bahumat]

Haha

a fair comment...

but my point still stands... a class designed to hunt support and others of its kind ripped through a chain wearing, 2handed swinging troll. (Before i even swung the hammer a second time after the back style)

he's an assassin, he is there to kill his target not just go for casters. You have a slow attack speed and without sc your quickness may not be capped nor 10% attack speed. He has evade 7 plus a RR6 inf would have used several of his toys to beat you. You have to realise you 1 swing every 2 hours versus his quick dual wield attack speed will always cause you problems.

You also have 16.2 dps against his 16.5 and im sure he probably has mastery of pain3

Face it, you got beaten by someone who has better equipment, lvl 10 arte's, more /use abilities, possible battler charge, maybe malice /use2

 

[Urgat]

To clarify... i would expect to be beaten by a RR6 inf. That is not the issue.

The issue is that there was absolutely no chance... zilch, nada, nothing. of me surviving more than 3 or 4 seconds.

I just think its wrong for a tank class to face that kind of destruction from a class that should NOT be able to do that to hard targets in my opinion.


Judging by the replies... I guess i am in the minority... so question answered, ty folks



Roll on WAR. At least bieng a tank will MEAN something <chuckle>

 

[Gear]

Just out of curiosity, did you use battler? Or warguard? Or Malice?

 

[Darzil]

To clarify... i would expect to be beaten by a RR6 inf. That is not the issue.

The issue is that there was absolutely no chance... zilch, nada, nothing. of me surviving more than 3 or 4 seconds.

I just think its wrong for a tank class to face that kind of destruction from a class that should NOT be able to do that to hard targets in my opinion.

Whether they should be able to is another matter. I had my level 49, untemplated reaver, duoing a quest (visit the dockmaster at Beno) with a level 50 untemplated reaver. Both were not badly templated, no arties, but full melee resists, decent stats, etc. Weren't buffed, of course.

A hibbie stealther unstealthed, tore apart mine in 2-3 shots, with the other reaver Levi'ing him in the back, then tore the other reaver apart, then turned on the scout that added, and tore them apart, then stood up to another duo for a long while. Was amazing to watch someone chain opponent after opponent without a break.

Darzil

 

[Farbaute2]

Skalds are forgotten by mythic. Im not sure if they have been changed at all after the game was released. they are like albion mistrels but without pets and stelth. i think you need some realmranks to run far from a group in rvr, but im not sure, i only pve with my skalds.

 

[legar]

Well yesterday my 47 vamp got perfed by an inf while i was on a mob, charging fast so he couldnt stun me, and he had to vanish lol.. right couple mins later he tried again, and died.

he was RR5+, so as you can see.. the ball swings different ways

 

[RS|Phil]

I used to do better going 1h on assassins when I was playing skald.

To be fair, if he's buffed and got dex/qui in his template even one evade means he'll fly down the hamstring chain very easily (you're using 2h which gives even a slower player an extra moment to know he can use his evade-chain), and even a buffed up pure tank would suffer horribly on that.

But I'm not really answering your question am I Do I think it's right? Not a chance in hell, and I love to play assassins. I've said for years I don't think any stealther should have even a remote chance against a hybrid or pure tank. Casters only imo - being able to hide is enough of a bonus.

 

[Dr_Evil]

My experience on assassins as a rr8L9 skald

Before assassins got their love, I used to be able to beat most of them without even using IP2 or any arti charges / MLs, and I would have chance to beat 2 of them alone. If a rr3 assassin met me then he wouldn't have a chance to even hurt me.

Now I am sure I need to have Spec AF up and either WH or SoM up at the start of the fight, and I'll need to purge the debuffs and use IP2 to beat a rr6 infil. If the infil is rr7+ I'll also have to use Anger2 + MLs + arti charges, and use Mez and SoS tactically to be able to kite / heal up in the middle of the fight. Even then it's close.

I have a good chance to beat them because I have MoParry4 combined with capped dex in template (294 buffed) so I will parry most attacks, and MoPain3 that will give me some juicy crits. I find assassins generally harder to beat than BMs, 2h heroes, rangers, vampiirs, paladins, heretics and minstrels.

My opinion in this subject is that a skald like all other hybrids should be able to beat assassins. Assassins are now so tough that even thanes (strong hybrids after love patch) struggle.

But there are not many rr3s who can beat a rr6, no matter what class. Only classes that have a chance to beat me in duel at rr3 are thanes, and there are few who can give me a good fight (warriors, mercs, armsmen, berserkers in frenzy).

 

[Azathrim]

The issue is that there was absolutely no chance... zilch, nada, nothing. of me surviving more than 3 or 4 seconds.

You most likely didn't die in 3-4 seconds. That would mean he two-shot you, which I highly doubt (or you have a major template problem).

I just think its wrong for a tank class to face that kind of destruction from a class that should NOT be able to do that to hard targets in my opinion.

Skalds are not a tank class, they are a music hybrid class. Besides, you weren't beaten because you were hit by an inf and you are a skald.

You died because you fought a target that used spec AF while you didn't.

On a side note:

The idea that some classes should NOT be able to beat certain other classes by default is silly.

What is next? That skalds should never be able to kill a heavy tank?
Every class should have a chance to beat any other class. Ofcourse, certain individuals will be tough for certain other individuals, just as some classes will be tough for certain other classes. But never should it be so, that you never can beat a tank simply because you are playing an assassin.

 

[RS|Phil]

I do agree that an assassin should be able to beat a hybrid and tank, thinking about it, but I do believe the odds should be heavily in favour of the assassin losing.

That said, cloth casters and healing archetypes are supposed to be the prey of assassins, and tbh in the days of ToA and NF I always had more luck fighting a pure tank than a caster or healer.

The whole thing is broken when you take it from the classes initial design intention perspective.

 

[Reformed]

Lets face it the only way you can supposedly 'balance' classes isn't about altering the specs of the alts anymore but balancing the buffs. Albion - AF - Hibs - Haste. If you want to belt Albs then you had better get an AF Charge up (not that I have played at 50) - likewise with Hibbies - you need haste. Saw it at the lower levels for sure and I do know that playing at 50 just exaggerated everying 10 fold (bit of an exaggeration). So really to be as good as you can be - well you guessed it. You need - wait for it - probably 2 computers - if not 3 so that you can run multiple accounts easily - one main account - and 2 buffbots at least! (if you are a mid).

Wahhaaa - isn't DAOC a wonderful game to play. Hey come play this game matey. All you need is a top notch computer or 2 - broadband - and a couple of accounts. Hell it only costs you about £40 a month in all. Tis a lotta fun and you get to upgrade your computer regularly so you can run the game properly too. Think of all that lovely expense and I know you like to spend money don't yah :touch: .

I feel better for that little outburst .

 

[xxManiacxx]

dw vs 2h
specc af

Basicly a low rr skald without finished template ML10 etc don´t have a chance versus a templated infil

 

[Raven]

most soloers have some of the best templates around and know their toons inside out. not meaning to be nasty or anything but you shouldn't stand a chance vs a well equipped higher RR soloer.

 

[Mas]

If you were winning he would have probably vanished also or garotte and ran

But hey stealthers are the fotm solo class even in WoW, and surprisingly mythic arent placing any stealth chars in WAR. Its pretty hard to balance a class that dual weilds and hits at a frightening speed whilst having many nice ml abilities oh and not forget stealth.

 

[Laws]

"So, there was a distinct lack of groups needing my toon yesterday on mid, so i decided to grab some buffs from a guildy and have a run out solo."

Heres your first mistake you grab a few buffs and decide to run solo so u must pwn all assasins because you are a hybrid tank? Go get a group and go run them over with your other 7 chums thats what you class is designed to do NOT be a solo 1v1 specialist.

"Yes, i am RR3, yes he was RR6 (iirc) Yes i am not quite fully templated yet (but not far off)"

Most Assasins I know spend tons of Plat on Armour, charges,Artis and are perfectionists when it comes to setup, they spend shed loads on kit and usually have everything up and strike you when it most favours them (i.e 1 v 1 situations where they are designed to be deadly, they have very little else to do and offer little group utlity whatsoever)


"My question is...

Am i the only person who feels a RR3 fully buffed Skald, with a decent set of gear, should at least have a chance versus a RR6 assasin? They guy tore through me in a straight melee... (thats an assasin... a "caster killer"... beating a Two handed Tank, in less time than it took me to hit IP1 and the malice ability.)"

Assasins are supposed to be a deadly 1 v 1 killer no where does it say buffed tanks could or should rip them apart. If you run solo then you run the risk of being torn apart by a well played assasin.

"Having played an inf to RR5 on glast, i was occasionally able to take on a tank and win... but it was bloody close..."

Glast is not the TOA and Buffed world of Pry/Excal the two servers cant compare.

"TOA'ed assasins are broken IMO. A class designed to hunt support and other stealthers should NOT be able walk all over a Tank in a straight fight.

<sigh>"

Again Mythic themselves state that Assasins are a 1V1 Killer no where does it state Tanks should be an exclusive club who can go solo and walk all over everyone.

"I cant be the only one who thinks this no?"

You are in most Assasins Eyes. If you dont like dieing solo do what everyone else does and roll a melee Ranger or Hunter tower hump to rr4l4 go MOS5 and go hunt the Assasins.

 

[Azathrim]

Its pretty hard to balance a class that dual weilds and hits at a frightening speed whilst having many nice ml abilities oh and not forget stealth.

Sounds like you need to play an assassin for quite awhile.

Sure, assassins can kill swift and effeciently. But once you PA a tank for less than he anytime styles you, while he have 1000 hits more than you and IP2 I doubt your impression will remain.

 

[Raven]

well played assassins do quite well vs heavy tanks, though with IP and warlord stuff up in the end they cant win, i tend not to use ip/warguard etc vs assassins i respect but its funny when the zerglings jump you and get schooled