PvE > RvR

[Kahland]

These days thats my opinion. At least in PvE you know when you get adds and can prevent it, zerging too

There is always things to kill in PvE, not in RvR.

 

[xrn]

ok

 

[Kahland]

YeaaAAHHHHHHHHH xrn

 

[Jenna.]

have fun exping

 

[lissandra]

I find it so funny that "hardcore" ppl stop rvr:ing when they dont own every other fg anymore. Guess they only wanna play when they win all easily.

 

[Cami]

Originally posted by lissandra
I find it so funny that "hardcore" ppl stop rvr:ing when they dont own every other fg anymore. Guess they only wanna play when they win all easily.

With a few grammar changes, that's what i would have said.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

I stopped being active in RvR ages ago due to lack of thigsn to fight, really. These days tho we seem to be back to APK camping by Mids, not much of an improvement

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by lissandra
I find it so funny that "hardcore" ppl stop rvr:ing when they dont own every other fg anymore. Guess they only wanna play when they win all easily.

I've been playing Hib/Pryd now for a while and my druid is 5L1. I consider myself not entirely stupid and know from experience that Pryd/Hib cannot build a group (with me in it ) that would own all and everything. PRolly has to do with me, but ok

Did I stop RvR'ing? No, (not yet). We all know Hibernia/Prydwen is severly underpopulated and in no way can stand a chance in a zerg-war, because Mids and Albs can bring so many more numbers.

So I am not trying that, I try to run fg vs. f fights. Having a hard time at the moment on Prydwen doing that. Lots of fg's running around but when seeing the Midgard-enemy and engaging the fight either of those 3 things happen:

a) Meet the enemy fg Mids consisting off 3 healers, 1 shaman, 3 savages and a skald. Surely a gank-squad out to own all and win everything easy. No excuse for making such a group UNLESS you wanna own. Fine with me, but making such a groups and owning the majority of the fights dont take too much skills. <-- 40%

b) Meet the enemy fg Mids consisting of a thane, a RM, a BD, 2 healers, a shammy and something else. Ah nice, a fight where we stand actually a chance. Oh wait, another fg adds in... <-- 30%

c) Meet the enemy fg Mids consisting of a RM, a thane, couple healers, savage shammy etc. Nice fight either of us wins, respect to both to keep it fg vs fg <--- 30%

This can sound like a whine, and it prolly is. But dont you guys understand that in the end you ruin Prydwen RvR ? Already heard various complaints about 'Hibs not coming out anymore'. The reason for this is simple.... having an underpopulated realm and getting zerged or owned each run is just simply not fun. I am not out to getting zerged, zerged, owned, owned, zerged down each and every run.

HMG Odins, camped by 2fg Mids. No way in hell we're gonna pass that with our fg. I dont wanna build a zerg to breach through, I wanna have fun.

HMG Hadrians Wall, camped by 2 fg Albs, 2fg Mids or nothing but roaming there are 2fg's running around. Might win a few fights but then getting entirely run over by a zerg or a dedicated gank-group. /release and start over.

Emain Macha. As soon as you see the enemy you know the CG is 'OMG there is 1fg Hibs at grogans, wanna see em?' and you get adds from all directions (not joking).

I know everybody wanna have fun and make some RP and the only way you make RP is actually engaging the enemy. However CONSIDER for a minute the situation from my (our) point-of-view. A hugely underpopulated realm standing no chance in a zerg war-fare.

As a result I often see in an evening around 25~ Hibs out in RvR, spread out over the 3 zones (not j/k here), the rest is XP'ing, crafting or doing something else. Lately already noticing a down-fall in Albion RvR population, perhaps for the same reason?

I can only see that if the enemy keeps up with his (it has gotten worse the last 2 months) in the end you get a server where there are no Hibbies anymore.

I can't tell the Middies not to use their savages. I can't tell the Middies not to go RvR because they already outnumbering everyone 3:1. But I can ask them to stop the zerging and adding. Can only say to BO who tried to run there as 1fg : :great:

 

[klavrynd]

a) Meet the enemy fg Mids consisting off 3 healers, 1 shaman, 3 savages and a skald. Surely a gank-squad out to own all and win everything easy. No excuse for making such a group UNLESS you wanna own. Fine with me, but making such a groups and owning the majority of the fights dont take too much skills. <-- 40%

This seems to be the new boohoo-we-cant-win-whine albs and hibs use. Let me just point out that before people started making melee groups we got killed by hib gankrgroups with bard + 2 chanters all the time, yet didnt QQ in a "dont make that group or we'll stay on the pk and you dont get rvr" way

The entire point of rvr (or at least how i play it) is to win a fight vs an enemy realm, so should we put together a team with less chance of winning because we finally found a setup that's better then the one we used for ages?

 

[Shianna]

Well, I always wondered (just to throw this in):

Hib is underpopulated (this seems to be right, yes) - but why is it, that 95% of the time you run into a fg of Hibs RR7+ ?

If you are so weak in RvR, how come that you have such a high RR ? Isnt that a contradiction ? *g*

Shi. - gimped friar

 

[Jenna.]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
I stopped being active in RvR ages ago due to lack of thigsn to fight, really. These days tho we seem to be back to APK camping by Mids, not much of an improvement

Gifv NS-target @ emain

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by klavrynd
This seems to be the new boohoo-we-cant-win-whine albs and hibs use. Let me just point out that before people started making melee groups we got killed by hib gankrgroups with bard + 2 chanters all the time, yet didnt QQ in a "dont make that group or we'll stay on the pk and you dont get rvr" way

I said:

I can't tell the Middies not to use their savages. I can't tell the Middies not to go RvR because they already outnumbering everyone 3:1. But I can ask them to stop the zerging and adding.

I cannot say (and won't say) 'Hey you there, you levelled a Savage uh? Stop playing it'. It's just the adding which gets silly in combination with having already superior groups.

The entire point of rvr (or at least how i play it) is to win a fight vs an enemy realm, so should we put together a team with less chance of winning because we finally found a setup that's better then the one we used for ages?

I understand that. I didn't say you should stop doing that. Ofcourse you strive to 'the best'. But if we leave the zerging and adding out of this for a while and you just look at Prydwen you know that making groups like that are pretty close to unbeatable for a Hib-group. You know Hib-population suffers. You know Hib suffers from morale (having DF close to never, having no relics and already a hard time hanging on to their own keeps). If you look at it from my/Hib pov you understand that those groups only contribute to a steady decline of Hibs in RvR.

I am still playing here, because I still enjoy the game and sometimes we have a good night and dont meet much gank groups or adds. But if the already down Hib-population meets those gank groups a week long alot of them will stop playing RvR resulting in less fun for all of us (including you).

I am not telling you to stop making silly groups like the infamous '3 healer, shammy, 3 savage 1 skald groups'. I am in no position to tell anything what to do. But in the end entire Prydwen RvR will suffer.

You dont have to believe me, but look at RvR at the moment...


P.S. Bard + 2 chanter group unbeatable? No clue what you played, but if you have all 3 forms of CC as insta available (insta-root: ichor, insta-stun: pac-healer, insta-mezz: pac-healer), bugged LA with zerks doing insane damage I dunno how 2 chanters + bard where unbeatable

 

[klavrynd]

hibs don't need df, you have 4fins and tur suil ~~


we used to have a skald-healer-(sham)-fill up with casters and tanks group without assisting

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Shianna
Well, I always wondered (just to throw this in):

Hib is underpopulated (this seems to be right, yes) - but why is it, that 95% of the time you run into a fg of Hibs RR7+ ?

If you are so weak in RvR, how come that you have such a high RR ? Isnt that a contradiction ? *g*

Shi. - gimped friar

This is an easy one. If you're underpopulated you often run as 1fg. Due to the nature of Hibernia this often means 2-3 PB spots.

You run as 1fg so everything is a thread so you got lots of people panning camera's, asking where and how the enemy is. You KNOW where the zerg is. The enemy often runs in 2+ fg if not more so isn't used to fighting as 1fg if they split up. We are. As soon as a random-fg splits up from the zerg they get beaten silly by a balanced fg of Hibs with PBAoE.

If you kill a fg as a fg you get 2k RPS/each. If a zerg mows down a fg they get something like 10RP/person around 80-150 RP.

As a result that zerg has to kill that fg around 20 times to equal the RP the fg makes if it kills a fg.

Every time that fg Hibs kills a fg Albs 'the zerg' has to kill that fg around 20 times.

Zergs often dont watch inc good. As a result sometimes when everything is up (BAOD, GP, insta heals, MOC) you do a suicide run on the zerg, try and get a good mezz in, setup the PB-plant and nuke away. You might kill 10 Albs (2200 RP) before you die.


Zerging = SHIT RP. Only way to make decent RP in DAOC is running as fg killing other fg's.

 

[eynar]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress

a) Meet the enemy fg Mids consisting off 3 healers, 1 shaman, 3 savages and a skald. Surely a gank-squad out to own all and win everything easy. No excuse for making such a group UNLESS you wanna own. Fine with me, but making such a groups and owning the majority of the fights dont take too much skills. <-- 40%

Unless you prefer losing over winning I see no reason not to try & make the best possible group setup for the realm you play for...

 

[faderullan]

Aldrick: We are still playing. Marracus however I had to drag to RvR everyday earlier. And now he dont want at all. All he cares about atm seems to be items for his armsmen alt, dunno why really.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by eynar
Unless you prefer losing over winning I see no reason not to try & make the best possible group setup for the realm you play for...

Agreed in the short-run. In the long-run building vastly superior groups then the enemy can put down results in very boring RvR for the enemy.

They start to come less and less and in the end no Hibs goes at all.. What then? GAME OVER ?

The idea of DAOC (imo) is to have fun. While it is prolly great fun to kick ass every night (I dunno, I always joined the underdog when I picked out a realm) in the long-run it might harm the game more then it does good for you.

I can HONESTLY say that I dont mind getting my ass kicked by a vastly superior group setup. I do not mind. I release and come back. I got 1.7 plat I can buy enough tickets

I do mind that a vastly superior group adds in on a fair fg fight. Yes, I know the goal is to WIN over your enemy. But you play this game for fun. There will be no fun at all if there's no enemy left.

 

[succi]

Yip PVE > all

5th 50 inc

 

[laga]

Puppetmistress

I pretty much agree with what Puppetmistress has written.
I'll try to up the frequency where Warders run down to Bolg or so then we can hopefully have some 1fgvs1fg without adds.
Unfortunately we do a lot of the 3 healers savages etc setup.
I think u should live with that and figure out a way to beat us.

I wish Mythic would make a zone where only 1fgvs1fg was possible, Like "lock" a fight once it started so that no adds could interfere.

Well...I made this post just to let u know there are mids that have the same concern as u do.

 

[zapzap]

Hibs began this perfect setup groups, dont look at mids making this problem.
We where happy if we had 1 seer in group.
Mids rvring was few very few at that time.

Lots of mids went excal made new alts ect and hi look we all began making 3 healer groups if we can and albs full tank group.

Now the problem is hib have chanters like albs have infils growing on the trees, but no way in hell u can run out with 1 seer + 2 rms and think u can beat 3 chanters.

make hibs run with anamist mentalist batle bards rangers and we go back to just fill up group, like back in old days.

Still was the same people wining fights but made the casual player had bigger chance.

Zapsi

 

[Puppetmistress]

Re: Puppetmistress

Originally posted by laga
I pretty much agree with what Puppetmistress has written.
I'll try to up the frequency where Warders run down to Bolg or so then we can hopefully have some 1fgvs1fg without adds.
Unfortunately we do a lot of the 3 healers savages etc setup.
I think u should live with that and figure out a way to beat us.
[/b]

Like I said before I cannot force you guys to make other group-setup

I dont want to, everyone is entitled to making his own fg to his/her liking.

Your average 3healer/shaman/3savage/1skald group is VERY TOUGH to beat BUT doable. It requires active Ra's to be up and stuff. But doable. But when adds come in it's futile

Only real weakspot I see in the group is the lack of an anytime melee-stun on your part. Savages and skalds cannot slam and as a support-class, PB-caster you can spin around your axe to avoid the positional backstun of a h2h-savage.

I wish Mythic would make a zone where only 1fgvs1fg was possible, Like "lock" a fight once it started so that no adds could interfere.

Wont happen, but would be nice aye.

Well...I made this post just to let u know there are mids that have the same concern as u do.

Good good

 

[Shike]

hmm, some ok points made...

I generally dont care about the enemies setup since I know if we loose, we played bad and have to improve. Adds however can fuck things up pretty bad and if I log for some other reason other than that I am too tired to play its adds. Think this goes for quite many. Some people just bring more and more ppl until they win, and then the FG they just killed just logged since they realize its no point in it anymore.

What can be done is this: If you loose, dont bring more people, study what went wrong instead and learn from it, I try to do that at least since I aint a fan of 1FG+adds myself. If you have a hopeless groupsetup and loose due to that, change it instead of tagging along with another FG. Thats the only way we can keep Prydwen as zergfree as possible so we dont become Zergxal no2.

I aint telling noone what to do, simply saying what can be done to make things a bit better seeing as the complaints are gettin worse and worse atm. If you wanna zerg, go ahead, but dont start to ask later why you dont find anything left to zerg.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by zapzap
Hibs began this perfect setup groups, dont look at mids making this problem.
We where happy if we had 1 seer in group.
Mids rvring was few very few at that time.

I only recently started on Prydwen, so I wasn't here at that time. Tho I think Hib always had a population problem resulting in the more urgent need to make balanced groups because facing superior numbers requires a more or less balanced group.

Now the problem is hib have chanters like albs have infils growing on the trees, but no way in hell u can run out with 1 seer + 2 rms and think u can beat 3 chanters.

Agreed.

make hibs run with anamist mentalist batle bards rangers and we go back to just fill up group, like back in old days.

Somehow I dont believe this. Those groups are out tho.

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by zapzap
Hibs began this perfect setup groups, dont look at mids making this problem.
We where happy if we had 1 seer in group.
Mids rvring was few very few at that time.

Lots of mids went excal made new alts ect and hi look we all began making 3 healer groups if we can and albs full tank group.

Now the problem is hib have chanters like albs have infils growing on the trees, but no way in hell u can run out with 1 seer + 2 rms and think u can beat 3 chanters.

make hibs run with anamist mentalist batle bards rangers and we go back to just fill up group, like back in old days.

Still was the same people wining fights but made the casual player had bigger chance.

Zapsi

its a fine idea to try and encourage people to pick up the lesser desired classes out there, but I really really doubt that will happen among the guildgroups alot. People in RvRgroups are getting used to how well those groups work and its fun to have a working guildgrp that can kill stuff, why change back to how it was in the old days tbh. Slowly people will adjust to how it really is, gimped classes dont work out in RvR too well and they get lesser and lesser groups and we will in the end only see the good RvRclasses out there I think. Unless the RvRexpansion etc has some really good changes in it. I really hope it do tbh, I'd hate to see people have their fun ruined by incompetense by Mythic.

 

[lubbock]

The problem is simple the RvR areas are too small for the amount of people in the game, you cant prevent zerges from happening because of the bottlenecks at milegates and there is only one way to run around, so until we get more rvr areas we are doomed.

 

[Shike]

on a sidenote (I love sidenotes^^)

This is not something that is unique for Prydwen I believe, I am fairly sure same development has been going on in US for some time too.

Most important to remember is that this problem aint caused by the players on Prydwen either tbh, individuals cant be blamed for zergs, one cant say to them:

"-YOU IDIOT, WHY IN HELL DID YOU ROLL A MENTALIST WITH MANASPECC? U SUCK ASS IN RVR AND CANT GRP WITH US, BUT U AINT ALLOWED TO RUN IN MORE THAN A FG BECAUSE THEN YOU ARE LAME" very odd that that guy find PvE more interesting, or zerg. Or is it really so strange?

it just dont work. This is the result of imbalance inside the realms between classes and how they function in RvR, nothing else. Prydwencommunity has always been pretty good and its nice to see something like this beeing discussed in a serious way, doubt it could happen on many servers worldwide. Some people have the time to roll another 50, some dont so they kinda have to run with more than 1FG to even have a chanse of some good fun out there.

is 2FG unbalanced groups a too tough match for a balanced FG or is it even then?

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by lubbock
The problem is simple the RvR areas are too small for the amount of people in the game, you cant prevent zerges from happening because of the bottlenecks at milegates and there is only one way to run around, so until we get more rvr areas we are doomed.

here I disagree a bit, Odins aint that small really, neither is HW, Emain in itself might feel small simply because you know the area by now maybe and because of the bottlenecks which I agree they are. Run more in Odins and HW over a longer period of time and it should feel a bit bigger after a while. With bigger zones the chanse of an encounter would decrease even more in Odins and HW and thats bad. I dont mean the silly camping of the MGs that quite many do, I mean the ones along the roads and on the way to Nott, Beno etc, those are the absolutely best fights I have experienced. Would it be easier if they placed spawned bindstones in the own frontierkeeps such as Beno and Bleedmer? Or would that just be another place to camp? I know albs dont like to die in HW and be forced to run back, its a rough road and risks are big if you dont know what you are doin.

And now I will shut up before I talk more jibberish mebbe.

 

[zapzap]

Originally posted by Shike
on a sidenote (I love sidenotes^^)
there.

is 2FG unbalanced groups a too tough match for a balanced FG or is it even then?

The balanced group would win 98 of 100 times if not for milegates, maybe why they still there :/

Zapsi

 

[faderullan]

98 of 100 vs 2fg? That i cant do.

 

[Jenna.]

Originally posted by faderullan
98 of 100 vs 2fg? That i cant do.

Its because you dont have healers/shamans/savages.