POLL: What is the most stupidly overpowered class in daoc

[old.Odysseus]

Scouts and theurgs outdo them all.

 

[xxManiacxx]

Think it all depends on in what situation we are talking about.

For instance I absolutely HATE facing a necro as a melee character in 1on1 but they are worthless in group RvR and moderate at the best in sieges.

 

[Vodkafairy]

you twist facts like a maniac charmangle

bainshee = 223 delve
fire wizard = 219 delve
dark rm = 219 delve
light eld/wind theurg/body sorc = 209 delve

if you think those few points in delve are going to make a massive difference, you're wrong.

on 50% resist each of those classes will hit you for roughly 400 dmg, thats with very high mom and aug acuity. with a perfect crit you will be hit for 600 damage, and at wp5, its a 49% crit chance. with my light eld (46+20 light, mom3, acuity3, 9% spelldmg, 10% resistpierce etc) i was doing roughly 330-340 on 50% resist with specnuke.

and bainshees being hard to spot is just ridiculess silly, people built lighthouses for ships to be able to navigate easier. a bainshee is the same thing, huge glow-in-the-dark thing just begging to be spotted.

 

[Eregion]

Hehe try beeing on the reciving end...

I do have a rr10 healer, i have been on the receiving end trust me. Vodkafairy summed it up good in the above post.

 

[Vodkafairy]

I do have a rr10 healer, i have been on the receiving end trust me. Vodkafairy summed it up good in the above post.

show off!

 

[Eregion]

show off!

+5 epeen!
It was just to show that i have some rvr experience vs bainshees

 

[charmangle]

Hehe well I dont know about that...

you twist facts like a maniac charmangle

bainshee = 223 delve
fire wizard = 219 delve
dark rm = 219 delve
light eld/wind theurg/body sorc = 209 delve

if you think those few points in delve are going to make a massive difference, you're wrong.

on 50% resist each of those classes will hit you for roughly 400 dmg, thats with very high mom and aug acuity. with a perfect crit you will be hit for 600 damage, and at wp5, its a 49% crit chance. with my light eld (46+20 light, mom3, acuity3, 9% spelldmg, 10% resistpierce etc) i was doing roughly 330-340 on 50% resist with specnuke.

Well we are talking about different things!

First of all:
A banshee will hit for 450-800 per nuke on 48% resists (the exact resists I run with)

What rr am I talking about then ? Well its probably high ofc...probably MoM 5 WP 5 or 4.

Fact is that Banshee hits hardest of all spellcasters. If its because of the 4 extra delve and the damage code has some kind of exponential scale I dont know. But the usual hits might look something like: 450 + 450 + 823. My point here beeing that its more damage than any caster can take anyway.

Same argument can be used for most high delve casters in the game but the extra 200 hp damage that banshees pull off does the trick even towards high hp templates.

Secondly:
Firewizzes:
When I mention firewizzes im talking about them as the most rediculous class in game including warlocks before nerf. They cant do anything, no utility no point to exist at all...EXCEPT for: When they ding rr 7+ they get enough damage goodies to make instakill hits (instakill = 1 or all of the 3 bolts killing)

I have rediculous screenshots of firewizzes hitting for 1700+ damage with 1 bolt.

Ofc thats not every time, but high rr firewizzes do hit that hard quite often and RC runemasters never do it. Even though the delve difference isnt that big strangly enough.

Anyway point here beeing that when a firewizz hits rr7+ they are equal to any warlock prepatchs there was. They just run solo in serg and instakill things. Now they are getting a boost to the damage...isnt that abit retarded ? Warlocks gets nerfed for beeing able to instakill (rightly so ofc, but they could have gotten something else to make them more groupfriendly to compensate for the nerf) and firewizzes gets nearsight and damage boost so they can kill even more easily. I wouldnt mind the boost on firewizzes if they just reduced the bolt damage to the same as rc runies have.

and bainshees being hard to spot is just ridiculess silly, people built lighthouses for ships to be able to navigate easier. a bainshee is the same thing, huge glow-in-the-dark thing just begging to be spotted.

Well since about 70% of all mids and albs think so there might be some truth to it ? Its not like we complain about it for fun! If it was actually a big bright light that made them 100 times easier to spot then we wouldnt mention it trust me mate!

/Charmangle

 

[charmangle]

Hmm...not sure what you are talking about...

I do have a rr10 healer, i have been on the receiving end trust me. Vodkafairy summed it up good in the above post.

Not sure here what you are talking about...

Are you saying that banshees doesnt hit as hard as Im saying ?
Then my reply can only be...why did you buy your rr10 healer on ebay ?
or
Why did you stop playing your healer when banshees got to rr8+ ?

What else you mean youll have to state more closely for me to be able to reply to...or just read the reply to vodka!

/Charmangle

ps. Hehe btw why state you have a rr10 healer ? Does that matter some how ? Would have carried more wieght with me if youd said: ive been rvring on mid 24/7 for the least 6 months so I know what im talking about. Trust me that works better mate. Arguments works too, you dont see me throwing my accoplishments around as arguments! ds.

 

[Eregion]

Not sure here what you are talking about...

Are you saying that banshees doesnt hit as hard as Im saying ?
Then my reply can only be...why did you buy your rr10 healer on ebay ?
or
Why did you stop playing your healer when banshees got to rr8+ ?

What else you mean youll have to state more closely for me to be able to reply to...or just read the reply to vodka!

/Charmangle

I'm not gonna bother anymore, have fun in your delusional world where bainshees hit for 800..
The statement about the healer is to say i have some rvr experience vs the receiving end of a bainshee that u asked earlier.

 

[charmangle]

Eh...have you argued anything before ?

I'm not gonna bother anymore, have fun in your delusional world where bainshees hit for 800..
The statement about the healer is to say i have some rvr experience vs the receiving end of a bainshee that u asked earlier.

Eh have you argued anything before ?
Just wondering since you said: anymore...

Anyway well stating that you have a rr10 healer doesnt mean that you have any experience at all with banshees. As I said saying youve been playing mid alot the last 6 months says it alot better mate!

Now Im sure you have experience, so therefor I argue this. If it was just a stupid comment by a person who obviously didnt have a clue I wouldnt bother to answere it at all.

But, Ill find you the next time I get hit for 800+ damage by a banshee and send you a screenie mate, if you promise me an apology for the delusions comment then mate ?

/Charmangle

 

[Rhayn]

and bainshees being hard to spot is just ridiculess silly, people built lighthouses for ships to be able to navigate easier. a bainshee is the same thing, huge glow-in-the-dark thing just begging to be spotted.

Ok I surrender to the mighty VF. Ill stop having trouble targetting them, just for you.

 

[thaaadi]

I'm not gonna bother anymore, have fun in your delusional world where bainshees hit for 800..
The statement about the healer is to say i have some rvr experience vs the receiving end of a bainshee that u asked earlier.

http://web.telia.com/~u43113987/sshot259.jpg
1000++ dmg so stop saying that they don't nuke for 800 EVERY NUKE?!?!!

 

[Tuorin]

With its own translucent graphic and no lightning effect casting animation. Can't be that hard to grasp really, even if you play hib.

And I don't think my group wants me assisting tanks on my pachealer tyvm.

Was referring to the caster that said he couldnt see one...

However for your assistance..

Own shape, once casts breaks all shapeshifts, own graphic ie conicular damage, light green radiant animation when casting taunt, again another game unique graphic.. Try looking at a few videos if you still cant find one...


Serious lolage really, have you seen the amount of posts to try and get banshee shape shift altered so they dont have one? Only class easier to spot is a warlock and thats because they can be seen emerging from clip first.

 

[Void959]

The reason bainshees DPS is so high is because of the casttime not delve. 2.6 sec on a baseline nuke delving for 223 is too much, all other specnukes take 2.8 sec+, that .2 sec less gives nearly 8% dps increase.

But I can't take any of the 800 damage per nuke stuff seriously. The only way you'd get hit for that is with no resists and a lucky string of crits. The guy in the screenshot had 0% body resists if you look at it. Same goes for firewizz, even after a 50% crit you'd only be hit that hard by a bolt if you let sheilds down. In group fights with 40-50% resists debuff nukers will always be more effective than spec nukers, particularly with more than nuker. Fortunately we'll never see hib body debuff groups because that would require a void specced eld

 

[censi]

YOU HAVE TO SPEC IT LOWER VARIENCE.

Anyone who claims bainshee is OP is newb.

Fuck me give hibs BD's and Sorcs and you can have bainshees.

 

[Void959]

YOU HAVE TO SPEC IT LOWER VARIENCE.

You get zero variance with 50 COMPOSITE, so 35 base for an rr5, whilst any spec nuker has to spec 45+ to get their top spec nuke to get anywhere near as much damage.

 

[censi]

U still have to spec that line to 50 for the top group ablative so it dont matter.

to even consider this as OP when u have pet classes with ml9 ability or baseline life taps on sorc is just plain retarded. This post was also about 1v1 situations in which the bain is quite simply the weakest mage out there.

my point stands if u think its OP u sux.

 

[Void959]

Top group ablative? Lol OK

BTW where did I say it's OP? I said its DPS is excessive. And yes the original post was about small scale RvR, the last few pages haven't been.

 

[censi]

runs for the hills!

 

[Puppet]

Well we are talking about different things!

First of all:
A banshee will hit for 450-800 per nuke on 48% resists (the exact resists I run with)

For 450-800 ? Kinda wild numbers just grabbing em out of thin air I suppose. Notice how you give a 'gap' of 350 dmg....

I plugged in some numbers:

http://mortal.peril.org/jack/daoc/dmgcalc.html

Take a DD219 as base, assume 330 INT (which is VERY high), assume 50+15 SG spec and Mastery of Magery 3. Assume 10% TOA-damage (most will have 8% or 9%) and assume 38% resists (48% minus 10% resist piercing).

These are numbers I plugged in, and I get as end-result:
Damage per hit 399 (-245) - which would equal to 406 damage (223/219 multiplier) for a DD223-nuke.

For MoM5 we would be on 437 damage. Pre-crits, and with the listed 330 INT, which is a rarity I would assume. Max hit would be 437 x 1.5 = 655 dmg.

Thats in the best case, obviously, for a 65 SG-specced nuker.

Fact is that Banshee hits hardest of all spellcasters. If its because of the 4 extra delve and the damage code has some kind of exponential scale I dont know. But the usual hits might look something like: 450 + 450 + 823. My point here beeing that its more damage than any caster can take anyway.

You sure you're not some caster-dude who gets bolted by the bainshee? Bainshees have a frontal-cone AE-bolt, which has a much higher delve. But only 700 range (or was it 600? 800?)

Same argument can be used for most high delve casters in the game but the extra 200 hp damage that banshees pull off does the trick even towards high hp templates.

Bainshees dont suddenly nuke for 200 damage more then another class. 4 delve equals 12 dmg higher cap, which goes abit more with MoM5 towards ~15 dmg more. Not 200.

I have rediculous screenshots of firewizzes hitting for 1700+ damage with 1 bolt.

Ofc thats not every time, but high rr firewizzes do hit that hard quite often and RC runemasters never do it. Even though the delve difference isnt that big strangly enough.

RC Runemasters dont do it, because you dont face them. On my shade Ive been bolted by alaron (rr10 wiz) for over 1300 dmg, yeah. Ive been bolted by a runecarver for over 1K. Dont forget my leather is 15% weak to heat, which does affect bolt-damage (but not DD)

Anyway point here beeing that when a firewizz hits rr7+ they are equal to any warlock prepatchs there was. They just run solo in serg and instakill things.

Wrong. I could pop on a wizard and interrupt him, and voilla, he would at best get 1 spell off. And it wouldnt be a bolt, as it would miss because Im in combat. The biggest problem with Warlocks, next to ofcourse the high damage, was the fact you couldnt interrupt them and ofcourse the chambers, which more or less where instant. Wizard-damage isnt insta, he still needs to cast stuff.

Now they are getting a boost to the damage...isnt that abit retarded ? Warlocks gets nerfed for beeing able to instakill (rightly so ofc, but they could have gotten something else to make them more groupfriendly to compensate for the nerf) and firewizzes gets nearsight and damage boost so they can kill even more easily. I wouldnt mind the boost on firewizzes if they just reduced the bolt damage to the same as rc runies have.

They get a debuff-component to their nukes, which will not affect their bolts much, as the 'in-combat code' on bolts also counts for being in combat due to spells. Doing a DD(-with debuff) then bolting has a big chance on missing the bolt.

Well since about 70% of all mids and albs think so there might be some truth to it ? Its not like we complain about it for fun! If it was actually a big bright light that made them 100 times easier to spot then we wouldnt mention it trust me mate!

Ur good at pulling numbers out of your ass, we already seen that before, but those 70%, tell me... are those all in your guild?

If you would make a case that casters in general are overpowered, you have a point there. However, 4 points more delve on a nuke doesnt make the bainshee more (or less) overpowered then the rest. If that would been the case, then I wonder how Eldritches coped in the past 5 years with their 10 points lower delve on their highest spec-nuke compared to RM/Wizz.

 

[censi]

I was just about to say this

 

[raid]

i find bainshees very annoying, lets take the typical situation in a fight:

-i play a caster, see a bainshee free
-move to nuke range, start nuking it
-first nuke does 100dmg because of ablative
-this gives bainshee time to react, lastattacker-face-taunt
-i may get 1 more nuke in during that, but then im interrupted
-bainshee starts nuking me for 500+ dmg, i just gotta run away

also, if group interrupts bainshee it can still interrupt back, and if it is left free it deals great amount of dmg.

 

[charmangle]

bah to freaking hungover to answere you in length...so

For 450-800 ? Kinda wild numbers just grabbing em out of thin air I suppose. Notice how you give a 'gap' of 350 dmg....

Im waaay to hungover atm to write any long answere explaining things to you so:

In short to almost all...Yes im sure thats correct or I wouldnt write it.

And no thats not damage taken out of the blue its the last damage I recieved from a banshee on brynja about 2 weeks ago. Ofc Im guessing the last nuke was a very high crit. And no none of the damages was from the bolt.

In short, try it out instead of cruching numbers. Just borrow a random mid/alb caster from a friend and talk to your banshee friend and let him nuke you about 100 times with MoM 5 and WP 5 and fully buffed with high piety and see for yourself. (I will save you a coulpe of screenshots of it next time it happens if you just promise that you will actually believe your own eyes at that time instead of trying to come up with lame exchuses to why the numbers who up...

/Charmangle

 

[Puppet]

Im waaay to hungover atm to write any long answere explaining things to you so:

In short to almost all...Yes im sure thats correct or I wouldnt write it.

You sure it is correct or you wouldn't write it? Well, you must have some massive ego-problem, that you actually think everything you write is therefore correct.

Unfortunaly, you've been prooven wrong various times on different subjects, so if I where you, I wouldnt take my own words as an authority for just about.. anything.

In short, try it out instead of cruching numbers. Just borrow a random mid/alb caster from a friend and talk to your banshee friend and let him nuke you about 100 times with MoM 5 and WP 5 and fully buffed with high piety and see for yourself.

I could just duel the bainshee on any of my characters and see the results? You say you run with 48% body-resists, that requires an Augment-spec healer having 46+ augmentation-spec. Not even allowing a spreadheal.. Unlikely, unless you only camp Brynja and run back to Bled every 10 mins to redo the 6-resists I find this part of the story unlikely aswell.

 

[charmangle]

Lol this really sounds like you are talking about yourself mate!

You sure it is correct or you wouldn't write it? Well, you must have some massive ego-problem, that you actually think everything you write is therefore correct.

Unfortunaly, you've been prooven wrong various times on different subjects, so if I where you, I wouldnt take my own words as an authority for just about.. anything.

Lol this really sounds like you are talking about yourself mate!
(Or atleats how almost everyone in mid views you and from what I can tell on these forums alb too)
Dont project your own insecurities about your mental abilities onto me please!

I could just duel the bainshee on any of my characters and see the results? You say you run with 48% body-resists, that requires an Augment-spec healer having 46+ augmentation-spec. Not even allowing a spreadheal.. Unlikely, unless you only camp Brynja and run back to Bled every 10 mins to redo the 6-resists I find this part of the story unlikely aswell.

Well thats because you have problems understanding concepts. (or atleast come off as if you do)
I have a lvl 50 augspecced aughealer bot and a 50 augspecced shaman bb that I use when I solo rvr. (latly ive been using only 46 aug specced shaman though since its rvr specced nowdays but anyhow)

And no they arent always stationed at bled but they follow to what ever closest siege spot and yes I do go back there about every 10 minutes to redo the buffs (give and take depending on the action ofc)

What your problem is when arguing is that you arent as stupid as you come off in these posts. You usually do understand the concepts you just seem to igore them on purpose ? I wonder why that is ? If you do understand what the one you are arguing with is trying to say why dont you just assume that and find good arguments against that...its not a popularity contest its meant to lead to mutual understanding and hopefully in the end a better game!

/Charmangle

ps: A perfect example of how you (hopefully actually understand concepts but just choose to ignore them) is this:

You say you run with 48% body-resists, that requires an Augment-spec healer having 46+ augmentation-spec. Not even allowing a spreadheal

Please tell me that you know more about mid than this ? In mid, if you want a bb that can give you haste you MUST have 2 bbs. You dont have haste on your speccbuffer. Therefor alot of mids have atleast 2 bbs one healer with 50 aug and one shaman with 50 aug. But most people have them on the same account ofcourse...in my case I have on of each on 3 different accounts. Same goes for sms...you need 1 supp specced sm and 1 summspecced one you cant like hib just go with chanter and have 1 to be able to do what you want in pve.

ds

 

[Konstantin]

Puppet vs Charmangle in deathmatch of the year on evry thread!

 

[charmangle]

Hehe...hours of fun!

Puppet vs Charmangle in deathmatch of the year on evry thread!

Hehe this looks promising...with some luck well have hours of fun!

/Charmangle

ps. Flamebating puppet till he is foming with aggromode for the win! ds.

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

keep going, it's a good read

 

[MesS°]

Where do i go to vote for Charmangle's post rights to be removed?

 

[charmangle]

Hehe yea it does make things come alive abit doesnt it!

keep going, it's a good read

Hehe yea it does make things come alive abit doesnt it!

Where do i go to vote for Charmangle's post rights to be removed?

And your reason beeing ?

/Charmangle