Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Ormorof]

Am also curious, parliament did vote for an extension and EU has agreed (with conditions) but curious how it actually works

 

[Wij]

As far as I’m aware the date is in the original withdrawal act, even though it didn’t need to be. The house needs to vote to change the date even if it has previously voted for a theoretical extension.

 

[Deebs]

Hmm, now I am reading reports of MPs being attacked. Fucking disgraceful and they are being told to travel to/from HoP via taxi and preferably with other people.

 

[Scouse]

Hmm, now I am reading reports of MPs being attacked. Fucking disgraceful and they are being told to travel to/from HoP via taxi and preferably with other people.

Maybe if people were a bit more prone to violence parliament wouldn't be the cesspit of corruption and self interest it is.

Not really supportive of it - but like I've said before - actual science has shown that governments ignore peaceful protest and act when the public start destroying things.

Austerity has killed people. Politics is personal. People like Cameron, May and Rudd literally get away with murder.

 

[Wij]

Maybe if people were a bit more prone to violence parliament wouldn't be the cesspit of corruption and self interest it is.

Not really supportive of it - but like I've said before - actual science has shown that governments ignore peaceful protest and act when the public start destroying things.

Austerity has killed people. Politics is personal. People like Cameron, May and Rudd literally get away with murder.

That’s a pretty bad take. We aren’t talking about politicians making NHS cuts but rejecting a deal that they know will harm the country.

 

[Scouse]

That’s a pretty bad take. We aren’t talking about politicians making NHS cuts but rejecting a deal that they know will harm the country.

They *have* to deliver on brexit though. Even I accept that. Or it harms what sham we've got left of living in a democracy.

Or hold a GE (or another referendum).

If a project can't be brought across the line for whatever reason you take it to the steering board and they decide if it gets cancelled or forced through.

If forced through, then direction must be given - so if another referendum it *must* be a complex one.

 

[Wij]

They *have* to deliver on brexit though. Even I accept that. Or it harms what sham we've got left of living in a democracy.

Or hold a GE (or another referendum).

If a project can't be brought across the line for whatever reason you take it to the steering board and they decide if it gets cancelled or forced through.

If forced through, then direction must be given - so if another referendum it *must* be a complex one.

Missing the point entirely. MPs have never been given a chance to debate or vote for what they would support. She just keeps bring the same shitty deal, that they had no opportunity to contribute to and that most MPs know is bad for the country and then tells them off for voting it down which, if it's bad for the UK, is their fucking job!

 

[Scouse]

Missing the point entirely. MPs have never been given a chance to debate or vote for what they would support. She just keeps bring the same shitty deal, that they had no opportunity to contribute to and that most MPs know is bad for the country and then tells them off for voting it down which, if it's bad for the UK, is their fucking job!

Yep.

So what should happen, if not what I've said?

 

[Job]

Its not a UK humiliation, its the EUs worse 5 years in its history.
Simply because the mainstream media has decided to band together as usual to describe the process as us fucking up..its THEM fucking up because they dont know what to do.
They are stuck with a rule book that is sending them down the road of losing all present trade deals with its second biggest economy.

They could save it in a minute, custom union with limits on free movement.
Except they know it would be an even greater shitstorm for them as every EU country went full fuck you.

 

[Job]

Missing the point entirely. MPs have never been given a chance to debate or vote for what they would support. She just keeps bring the same shitty deal, that they had no opportunity to contribute to and that most MPs know is bad for the country and then tells them off for voting it down which, if it's bad for the UK, is their fucking job!

Its not her shitty deal, its all the EU are offering, MPs reject it.
Its called parliament.

 

[Deebs]

Its not a UK humiliation, its the EUs worse 5 years in its history.
Simply because the mainstream media has decided to band together as usual to describe the process as us fucking up..its THEM fucking up because they dont know what to do.
They are stuck with a rule book that us sending them down the road if losing all present trade deals with its second biggest economy.

They could save it in a minute, custom union with limits on free movement.
Except they know it would be an even greater shitstorm for them as every EU country went full fuck you.

What The Fuck?!?!

We were handed our arses on a platter yesterday. The EU are dictating any possible Leave date past the 29th March.

 

[Wij]

They could save it in a minute, custom union with limits on free movement.
Except they know it would be an even greater shitstorm for them as every EU country went full fuck you.

Listen to Jeremy Corbyn here

By the way you are wrong. Do you understand the difference between the single market and the customs union?

Anyway - it's the UK government that ruled out a customs union because they want to give Liam Fox a job jetting around the world pretending he knows how to do trade deals.

 

[Wij]

What The Fuck?!?!

We were handed our arses on a platter yesterday. The EU are dictating any possible Leave date past the 29th March.

Agreed. May came with a proposal and the EU said 'no this is what you are getting' and she had to suck it up.

We have no leverage whatsoever. This is what all our future trading negotiations will be like now because we have put ourselves in a dire position. The gentlemen-amateurs of the ERG were full of bluster but their tactics were always monumentally stupid.

 

[Job]

Jesus f christ stop falling for the propoganda.
Why is that anything but normal?
This will play out like it always does in the EU.
Extensions, last minute talks, stop the clock, intermediate deals, breakthroughs, lots of smiling and applause.
All they are working on is who gets the credit.

 

[Scouse]

They could save it in a minute, custom union with limits on free movement.

Look. When you join a diving club, you know that it's going to involve weight belts, wetsuits and cumbersome breathing apparatus. But when you all get in the water together, you have a great time.

If one member of that dive club wants to change the breathing apparatus to a snorkel then it's no longer "dive club" is it?

The other members would, rightly, go "fuck off to snorkel club".


Freedom of movement and services is the EUs breathing apparatus. It can't be changed - because it's fundamental to the nature of the club.

Just because we're a bunch of wankers who want to join go-karting club, which is only for some people and not for the browns, doesn't make the EU idiots - it makes *us* wankers.

Well. Not all of us. Just you. Of every human in Britain, just you.

 

[Wij]

Its not her shitty deal, its all the EU are offering, MPs reject it.
Its called parliament.

No. The backstop was a UK proposal!

The red lines came from May and the ERG not from the EU.

This is her deal because that's all the EU could do given the red lines.

Jesus. Why do things like this have to be explained to grown men?

 

[Wij]

Jesus f christ stop falling for the propoganda.
Why is that anything but normal?
This will play out like it always does in the EU.
Extensions, last minute talks, stop the clock, intermediate deals, breakthroughs, lots of smiling and applause.
All they are working on is who gets the credit.

You are fucking deluded.

 

[Wij]

Yep.

So what should happen, if not what I've said?

What should have happened from the start is to try and find out what would command a consensus across the house and not rule out 90% of the options with red lines before you even start.

We could do that now with a long delay but there would be much wailing now of betrayal. If it had been done before the narrative that only 'no relationship at all fulfils the referendum' had started then it wouldn't be so poisonous now.

If there's no will to do that then tack an amendment to May's deal that it would be subject to a confirmatory referendum with remain also on the ballot and it would fly through the house in no time.

 

[caLLous]

 

[Job]

You are fucking deluded.

We shall see, nothing has happened yet to convince me they havent just turned this into to an incoming victory parade.

 

[Job]

Well if it was shit in there.. which the analogy conveniently brushes aside..then the kebab shop is better.

 

[Job]

What should have happened from the start is to try and find out what would command a consensus across the house and not rule out 90% of the options with red lines before you even start.

We could do that now with a long delay but there would be much wailing now of betrayal. If it had been done before the narrative that only 'no relationship at all fulfils the referendum' had started then it wouldn't be so poisonous now.

If there's no will to do that then tack an amendment to May's deal that it would be subject to a confirmatory referendum with remain also on the ballot and it would fly through the house in no time.

Ill shorten you post.

Cave in and destroy democracy.

 

[Wij]

Ill shorten you post.

Cave in and destroy democracy.

That's an idiotic argument. Democracy cannot be destroyed by more democracy.

 

[Deebs]

You are fucking deluded.

@Wij I politely refer you to this page https://forums.freddyshouse.com/members/job.342/ and please in the left hand column look for the number of facepalms received.

 

[Scouse]

Well if it was shit in there.. which the analogy conveniently brushes aside..then the kebab shop is better.

No. It may have been shit in there but the kebab shop is clearly way worse.

A slightly crap party is still a party.

 

[Job]

@Wij I politely refer you to this page https://forums.freddyshouse.com/members/job.342/ and please in the left hand column look for the number of facepalms received.

Facepalms mean I dont like it but I have no argument, they are a badge of honour

 

[Scouse]

That's an idiotic argument. Democracy cannot be destroyed by more democracy.

I think he was referring to your solution - which clearly would turn up remain.

If you added "leave with no deal" onto the ballot then it would be a better ask...

 

[Scouse]

Facepalms mean I dont like it but I have no argument, they are a badge of honour

I've facepalmed that post and this is further argument that is telling you that you are clearly full of shit.

This post is prima facie evidence of that

 

[Job]

That's an idiotic argument. Democracy cannot be destroyed by more democracy.

Its not idiotic, its the truth and anyone with two brain cells laughs at the keep trying for the right answer approach.
You end up with who has the most resources and influence to keep asking the question.

 

[Job]

I've facepalmed that post and this is further argument that is telling you that you are clearly full of shit.

This post is prima facie evidence of that

All least you said something