Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[~Yuckfou~]

Thought I'd pitch in.
So there is no doubt that the whole palaver is a total cluster fuck. It's been mismanaged from the start. I also do not like the way May is delaying until the last minute and trying to hold the country to ransom.
So either:
Delay until a deal that everyone is happy with can be negotiated. Impossible.
Fall off the cliff. Fucking stupid.
Another referendum, Stay/Mays deal/Cliff edge. Best answer.

We were lied to heavily by Boris and his cronies.
I don't believe anybody had the slightest clue what we were getting into.
If the vote goes the way of Brexit then at least the government will have a mandate.

I'm sick to death of Brexiteers complaining that it's not democracy. It's the fucking definition of democracy. Here's the reality, now choose.
I wonder how the people who voted Brexit at Airbus and all the other companies are feeling now. Going to be a long dole queue.
Given my Spain thread I have a great interest in this. (exchange rates, paperwork etc)

 

[Bodhi]

@Bodhi, have a watch of the video from the Airbus chief and tell us why he's wrong and this isn't a biggie for business.

I would ask @Job too but he doesn't know what business is for.

You are entirely correct, as us leaving the EU could well have an effect on Airbus' bottom line. The EU might start withdrawing all those "oh-so-legal" subsidies Airbus have been getting:

WTO says EU illegally subsidised Airbus

So yeah, could be a massive one for the EU's friendly plane manufacturer if their masters give them less money for staying. But given how long it would take to build a skill base somewhere else and the length of the contracts they work to (I've heard 2025 mentioned as the next allocation), if we don't have a deal in place by then, something has gone very wrong.

But then if the worst should happen and Airbus do move everything to China (that well known EU nation), I'm sure their employees would be looked after. Boeing have recently moved into Sheffield, and I'm sure they'd love to poach a boatload of their big rival's staff.

 

[Bodhi]

Dutch government says over 250 companies in talks about relocating to Netherlands because of Brexit

Until it's published we won't know for sure.

I might open a plaque manufacturer in Amsterdam in that case, lots of guaranteed orders!

 

[Job]

They arent pulling out..its a low level threat, using their leverage with a business that the UK was a founder of.
You of all people on here ranting about the power of corporations, then you go all...well business is business when it suits your agenda.

 

[DaGaffer]

Airbus was built to spread the construction across Europe..helping out areas like Wales.
So Airbus have taken it upon themselves to threaten to pull out...who the fuck are they to threaten to pull the rug on one of the founding nations of the project.

You do know that BAE isn’t part of Airbus anymore right? They’re just a subcontractor. Airbus owes them, or the UK, fuck all.

 

[Bodhi]

They arent pulling out..its a low level threat, using their leverage with a business that the UK was a founder of.
You of all people on here ranting about the power of corporations, then you go all...well business is business when it suits your agenda.

It pains me to admit this, but @Job is bang on here. We've had 10 years of certain posters banging on like a demented Tim Robbins from Team America about corporations being all corporationey (sic) and them being the root of all evil - until Brexit, where they are the same poster's white knights.

They still haven't figured out how holding companies and Corporation Tax work, but it's a start.

 

[Scouse]

You are entirely correct

Thanks for answering a different question. I asked why the things he brought up are a big issue for business - not just a big issue for Airbus. As he mentioned in the video that you didn't watch.

Business are re-homing en-masse. It's a fucking HUGE deal for business - and it's costing even the ones who are staying shitloads of cash in real terms attempting to de-risk an uncertain scenario - and that's before we leave.

I left the only relevant part of your answer in the quote btw

 

[Job]

Regardless of Brexit if brother Corbyn gets in power , they have to take on extra staff on at the company relocation office.
That is a far bigger concerning outcome from this shitstorm...we're staying in the EU, but heres the new head of Airbus UK union...put the fist down Igor.

 

[Scouse]

We've had 10 years of certain posters banging on like a demented Tim Robbins from Team America about corporations being all corporationey (sic) and them being the root of all evil - until Brexit, where they are the same poster's white knights.

No. I'm commenting on the problem of brexit and business, not arguing the morality of capitalism.

We live in a capitalist society. If it's to have any chance of working even badly then business needs certainty.

One argument has fuck all to do with the other.

 

[Scouse]

Regardless of Brexit if brother Corbyn gets in power , they have to take on extra staff on at the company relocation office.

No. They make the staff redundant and foxtrot oscar. Then they employ a load of polish, or south korean, workers instead.

And are you now saying that Corbyn will protect the workers @Job

Which is it? Is he an incompetent cunt or the saviour of the working class? You can't have it both ways...

 

[Job]

Seriously Scouse they have everything to do with each other.
Brexiters are actually reaching out to a notion you have a great deal of sympathy for, but it might cost us a bit...oh fuck that you idiots.

 

[Bodhi]

Thanks for answering a different question. I asked why the things he brought up are a big issue for business - not just a big issue for Airbus. As he mentioned in the video that you didn't watch.

Business are re-homing en-masse. It's a fucking HUGE deal for business - and it's costing even the ones who are staying shitloads of cash in real terms attempting to de-risk an uncertain scenario - and that's before we leave.

I left the only relevant part of your answer in the quote btw

I discussed Airbus in particular because the impact on all business will be different - obviously Airbus are one of the more exposed companies, due to who their paymasters are and how their supply chains work.

Or do you actually think the concerns of an aerospace manufacturer with a pan-European supply chain are going to be the same as one without?

 

[Job]

No. They make the staff redundant and foxtrot oscar. Then they employ a load of polish, or south korean, workers instead.

And are you now saying that Corbyn will protect the workers @Job

Which is it? Is he an incompetent cunt or the saviour of the working class? You can't have it both ways...

Er ..I am saying they will FO..was that not clear enough.

 

[Bodhi]

No. I'm commenting on the problem of brexit and business, not arguing the morality of capitalism.

We live in a capitalist society. If it's to have any chance of working even badly then business needs certainty.

One argument has fuck all to do with the other.

Ah. So the enemy of your enemy is your friend?

Got it.

 

[Scouse]

Ah. So the enemy of your enemy is your friend?

No. We were discussing one thing as it is in the real world today - not discussing how I would like the world to be organised.

Not my fault you can't hold two separate things in your head at the same time and discuss both rationally.

 

[Gwadien]

Isn't Airbus a EU conception?

 

[Bodhi]

Isn't Airbus a EU conception?

Yep. See earlier link - £22 billion in state aid received from our friends in Brussels.

 

[Gwadien]

Then why are we even surprised?

I mean even without that funding, it's still in principle a EU idea?

 

[Scouse]

it's still in principle a EU idea?

Who cares - it affects 150,000 UK jobs.

 

[Bodhi]

View: https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1088431190489612288?s=19


Oh.

 

[Gwadien]

Who cares - it affects 150,000 UK jobs.

That's kinda my point - we're leaving the EU, and this is a EU project, why is this a surprise?

I bet there's people who work in these jobs who voted for Brexit because they had no idea of the consequences, because you know, lies.

 

[Job]

There is the slight fact that they planned to move to Singapore years ago..the £330 million HQ was finished last year.
He still claims its the best for the UK.
I have no clue if thats true.

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1088431190489612288?s=19


Oh.

Not sure what point you're making... Because warning your employees that they could be out of work soon sounds like a fairly reasonable thing to do.

Or were you suggesting that the Government told them to report that it's going to be bad?

 

[Bodhi]

That's kinda my point - we're leaving the EU, and this is a EU project, why is this a surprise?

I bet there's people who work in these jobs who voted for Brexit because they had no idea of the consequences, because you know, lies.

Airbus have factories all over the world, in and outside of the EU. If wing production leaves Wales it will most likely go to China, also not in the EU.

 

[Bodhi]

Not sure what point you're making... Because warning your employees that they could be out of work soon sounds like a fairly reasonable thing to do.

Or were you suggesting that the Government told them to report that it's going to be bad?

That is exactly what has happened. You can tell HMG are involved when 2 or 3 businesses make similar pronouncements on the same day. You'll also notice Ford have piped up - doubly amusing considering the reason why Transits aren't built in the UK any more.

 

[Gwadien]

So there isn't a degree of truth in it?

This is precisely why we need a Brexit Government.

 

[Scouse]

Airbus have factories all over the world, in and outside of the EU. If wing production leaves Wales it will most likely go to China, also not in the EU.

Who cares *where* it goes. The point is if it goes the jobs go with it.

Or is that just another case of not giving a fuck about the 150,000 affected British people?

 

[Bodhi]

Who cares *where* it goes. The point is if it goes the jobs go with it.

Or is that just another case of not giving a fuck about the 150,000 affected British people?

Because it kind of undermines the argument that they are leaving because we aren't in the EU if they move it to another country which isn't in the EU.

 

[Scouse]

Because it kind of undermines the argument that they are leaving because we aren't in the EU if they move it to another country which isn't in the EU.

Aside from the fact that you randomly decided that wing production would go to China - still, not really. It's a question of economics. But to humour you - if it ended up in China they'd be still producing at a cheaper cost. If tarrifs between UK and China were equal, where do you think the profit would be had?

Regardless of mythical situations - it's the cost of doing business in the UK that's going to go up in the event of Brexit. That's the only fact that we can rely on.

That's why companies are re-homing and why others are (currently) reluctant to invest. That's despite the pound being lolzroffles weak.

 

[DaGaffer]

Airbus have factories all over the world, in and outside of the EU. If wing production leaves Wales it will most likely go to China, also not in the EU.

It’ll go to Spain. They’re already ready to do it. China makes sense as a final assembly plant.