Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

If you were an MP would you vote for or against it?

  • FOR

  • AGAINST


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Scouse

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Fucking joke init.
I'm waiting for @Embattle to come along and tell us how "nothing has changed" and this is all scaremongering, or something.


(Or really, maybe a facepalm. Either way, nothing coherent).
 

Ormorof

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Actually fits quite well with the advice given by many pro brexit peeps

"If you dont like it fuck off" :bootyshake:
 

Yoni

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I am not sure that those who voted leave did so expecting trade to remain unfettered... it is really of no surprise to me in the slightest that companies are having to invest in Europe in order to survive.

I avoid this discussion with my friends and family oO because it is a point of discourse as I passionately believe in a united Europe, but when it has come up it has been about the leaves definition of sovereignty (as misunderstood as I believe it is) and nothing else - ironically that same group (and we are talking about bright, university educated individuals) also are against Scottish independence - this i find a little odd to say the least.
 

DaGaffer

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I am not sure that those who voted leave did so expecting trade to remain unfettered... it is really of no surprise to me in the slightest that companies are having to invest in Europe in order to survive.

I avoid this discussion with my friends and family oO because it is a point of discourse as I passionately believe in a united Europe, but when it has come up it has been about the leaves definition of sovereignty (as misunderstood as I believe it is) and nothing else - ironically that same group (and we are talking about bright, university educated individuals) also are against Scottish independence - this i find a little odd to say the least.
They've all settled on sovereignty because its the only even slightly defensible justification for this never ending shitshow. "Well, at least I can vote out a British government if they do a bad job, sovereignty don't you know? Harrumph." And yet they never do....
 

Yoni

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I am not sure any one knew what to expect - I for one would like to see what happens in the next 12 months although I think it will take a shitload longer to sort this mess out. All I know is that as my dad worked in the wine trade (importing mainly from Europe) and then owned his own wine merchants that he would have been completely fucked now....
 

DaGaffer

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I am not sure any one knew what to expect - I for one would like to see what happens in the next 12 months although I think it will take a shitload longer to sort this mess out. All I know is that as my dad worked in the wine trade (importing mainly from Europe) and then owned his own wine merchants that he would have been completely fucked now....
I have to disagree, plenty of "remoaners" "Project Fear" people, pointed out exactly the sort of things that would happen, not because they were geniuses, but because an awful lot of this was always blindingly obvious.
 

Yoni

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I am not so sure... there were plenty of statements made, but that that point there had been no negotiations.... sure the crazy ERG made their wishes well known and the "remoaners", of which I am one, stated that if there was no free movement then there would be no trade deal. I do not think that the average Joe however understood the reality of the situation... they just saw the big headlines and many of them (yes even some well educated ones) were taken in by the lies .... Keep people out, more jobs for British people, more money for our NHS, police our own boarders, less red tape (that one is particularly fun).
 

caLLous

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Finally some good ne... oh, no, wait, it's more bad news.

Mastercard set to hike fees for UK purchases from EU | Financial Times

Departure from single market spells end for Brussels-mandated cap on transaction levies

Mastercard will increase fees more than fivefold when a British shopper uses a debit or credit card to buy from an EU-based company, sparking alarm among companies that rely on online payments and concern among MPs over higher consumer prices.

Mastercard and Visa levy an “interchange” fee on behalf of banks for every debit or credit card payment that uses their networks. The EU introduced a cap in 2015 after concerns the hidden fees were leading to hundreds of millions of euros in costs for companies and higher prices for consumers.

But Mastercard has told merchants that the cap no longer applies to some transactions post-Brexit, because payments between the UK and European Economic Area are now deemed “inter-regional”.

From October 15, Mastercard will charge 1.5 per cent of the transaction value for every online credit card payment from the UK to the EU, up from 0.3 per cent at the moment. For debit card payments, the fee will jump from 0.2 per cent to 1.15 per cent. The increase will benefit British banks and other card issuers, rather than Mastercard itself.

Consumers will face higher costs if companies choose to pass on the fee, a further burden on purchasing products from EU-based companies. Extensive red tape has already been imposed on buying and selling products between the UK and EU after Brexit, alongside customs and VAT charges.

Domestic purchases from Amazon UK, for example, normally go through a Luxembourg-based company. One person familiar with its plans said the ecommerce giant could shift where the UK store is located under card network rules to avoid the fee increase on its merchants.

“Some people might put this change down to Brexit, but it is actually just greed. It is well within the power of the card schemes to make merchants' lives easy and keep things operating as they were pre-2021,” said Joel Gladwin, head of policy at the Coalition for a Digital Economy, which represents British start-ups.

“Not only does this hurt the already squeezed bottom lines of ecommerce start-ups and subscription businesses, it comes at a time when a huge number of small businesses have shifted to online models to survive.”

The move also affects services provided by companies with EU-based operations that consumers may not realise are international transactions.

Callum Godwin, chief economist at CMSPI, the global payments consultancy, said that industries such as airlines, hotels, car rentals and travel groups would be hit by the move — “anywhere the consumer is in the UK and the merchant is in the EU”. He said that was particularly bad for these industries, which had already been hit by Covid lockdowns and could not afford the further losses.

Mastercard processes the majority of credit card transactions in the UK, and a growing proportion of debit card payments.

Visa, which leads in the debit card market, has not announced any changes to its fees, but has not ruled it out. A spokesperson said “should any change to interchange be appropriate, Visa would aim to provide our clients with advance notice to help them plan ahead”.

Mastercard said the changes were designed to bring interchange rates in line with levels it had agreed with the European Commission for transactions from all non-EU areas in 2019.

One EU-based start-up that offers services to the UK said: “It seems very opportunistic. In the EU, they are very tightly regulated. But the UK has no similar legislation.”

The Treasury declined to comment.

Kevin Hollinrake, chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Fair Business Banking, said that the move was “alarming”.

He added: “This smacks of opportunism and I would urge the regulators to step in as a matter of urgency to ensure that financial institutions do not use Brexit as an opportunity to hike up costs that consumers will ultimately bear.”

After the new rules were brought in 2015, the commission found that merchants saved about €1.2bn, with estimated overall annual consumer cost savings of between €864m and €1.9bn.

MPs warned in 2019 that higher interchange fees could be passed on to UK businesses and consumers.
 
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Raven

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Can I just ask that people stop posting paywall shit?

Financial times asking £33 p/m roflno
 

Raven

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Asda have substituted my parmasan in today's delivery! The Brexit struggle is real!
 

Bodhi

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Mobile phone charges next.
Highly, highly doubtful - mostly as I currently have free roaming in the US, Mexico and a whole host of other non-EU countries built into my plan with EE.

And as for the Mastercard thing, pfft. Pay in local currency or use Visa, not really a challenge to get round price gouging companies these days.
 

Scouse

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And as for the Mastercard thing, pfft. Pay in local currency or use Visa, not really a challenge to get round price gouging companies these days.
VISA are keeping suspiciously quiet at the moment.

Good use-case for Crypto right there :)
 

Bodhi

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VISA are keeping suspiciously quiet at the moment.

Good use-case for Crypto right there :)
That was going to be my other suggestion :)

However I can tell you as an experienced traveller, getting round foreign currency fees is quite straightforward, if you know what you're doing and don't have an Amex card.
 

Ormorof

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Highly, highly doubtful - mostly as I currently have free roaming in the US, Mexico and a whole host of other non-EU countries built into my plan with EE.

And as for the Mastercard thing, pfft. Pay in local currency or use Visa, not really a challenge to get round price gouging companies these days.
Price will be pushed to the sellers, interested to see how they pass it on, suspect they will just bung it on for everyone if they can get away with it
 

DaGaffer

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But still fucking shit to have to do.
Of course it is. Just because @Bodhi has some sprinkles on his shit sandwich, doesn't stop it being a shit sandwich. UK based telcos are no longer constrained by EU roaming rules, so at least for some customers, roaming charges will come back. The fact that some telcos have bilateral roaming deals with other telcos doesn't alter that any more than it did before 2017 when you could get "free" roaming on certain Vodafone and O2 contracts.

And the only reason Visa haven't upped their charges yet is because they're exposed to peer to peer payments as their business is mostly debit card, if they put their prices up its a big incentive to Fintechs and banks to cut them out across a wave of payment options (as happens a lot in the Nordics already). Mastercard are mostly credit card so less exposed.
 

Ormorof

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Visa don't want to rock the boat in middle of this PSD2 fiasco unfolding 🤣
 

Wij

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Gwadien

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65-75% of HGVs coming into the UK are going back to Europe empty.

So we continued to buy their shit whilst they stopped buying ours.

Who knew?!
 

Raven

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Sounds like gloating to me.

Besides, very few trucks ever went back carrying anything, they rarely even get on the boat, just the trailers. Why would you have 100s of wagons on a boat for 2/3rds of a day?
 

Ormorof

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Bit of a copout there. There used to be goods going both ways, as that makes more sense for everyone, now theres not, this added cost has led to (from previously linked article in thread) a 68% drop in exports to EU, which is quite a lot.

But sure it was just project fear and remoaning
 

Raven

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No it's not :) ofc it's true, but that doesn't stop it from being gloating :)

There are pages and pages of people getting uppity in the Rona thread when people dared to criticise the EUs huger than we can possibly imagine, complete fuck up over threats to the ROI/NI border, just weeks into Brexit proper, all to deflect from attention from an arguably bigger fuck up that was also predicted long ago, that the EU is a slow moving bureaucratic shit show that desperately needs to change (but refuses to do so).
 
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