Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Bodhi]

Interesting. I didn’t know we could revoke article 50 unilaterally:


View: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1069868636368715776


Presumably that means we would keep all existing rebates and opt-outs too.

Not entirely accurate reporting by Laura K...


View: https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1070093107427983360?s=19

Also, does this not have the potential to create an absolute shitstorm further down the road? If other countries have an issue with Brussels, they can just trigger Article 50, knowing they can rescind it again later unilaterally?

 

[DaGaffer]

Not entirely accurate reporting by Laura K...


View: https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1070093107427983360?s=19

Also, does this not have the potential to create an absolute shitstorm further down the road? If other countries have an issue with Brussels, they can just trigger Article 50, knowing they can rescind it again later unilaterally?

Do you honestly think anyone else would put themselves through this shit? And to what end? Even if the UK did cancel Article 50 (and by the way I'm confused why this is news that you can cancel, I thought that was common knowledge), UKGov would look like utter dicks and the political festering sore over the EU would still be there. As much as I don't want it to happen, the only possible way it could is with another referendum, but this time tightly worded and explicit about the options, and I very much doubt that's going to happen.

 

[Job]

Im now more interested in the pantomime of voting in parliament, this continuing shitshow of overlapping new and ancient rituals in some kind of Masons style nod wink and how many mates have you got..leak a bit to the press..tell a joke and sort it out over a pint..is all very quaint, with everyone pretending they have fucking clue how it works.

I'm increasingly siding with Guy Fawkes.

 

[Scouse]

I'm increasingly siding with Guy Fawkes.

Awww. That's because the far right love to get a bit violent when they feel like they aren't getting their own way.

 

[Wij]

United Kingdom submits draft post-Brexit services commitments to WTO

So we aren't that unprepared for no deal then are we?

Application submitted. Any country could yet veto it.

No deal doesn’t just cover trade. Aviation, healthcare, security and so on...

 

[DaGaffer]

Awww. That's because the far right love to get a bit violent when they feel like they aren't getting their own way.

To be fair, is anyone getting their own way at the moment? It looks like we’re getting a Brexit where literally no-one is going to get the outcome they wanted. Which is quite impressive when you think about it.

 

[Job]

I did say that from day one.

Some obscure fudge tio basically bar a no deal exit has pretty well handed the negotiations to the EU.

Its game over..we might as well stay in, all that has been achieved is to put the total lack of people power in politics.

Next step is a European revolutuon.

 

[Bodhi]

Do you honestly think anyone else would put themselves through this shit? And to what end? Even if the UK did cancel Article 50 (and by the way I'm confused why this is news that you can cancel, I thought that was common knowledge), UKGov would look like utter dicks and the political festering sore over the EU would still be there. As much as I don't want it to happen, the only possible way it could is with another referendum, but this time tightly worded and explicit about the options, and I very much doubt that's going to happen.

One of the more "stable" European nations no, but Italy, Hungary, Poland - even France given the carnage over there? If Macron gets booted out on his arse then that raises the spectre of Le Pen again, then all bets would be off.

 

[Bodhi]

Application submitted. Any country could yet veto it.

No deal doesn’t just cover trade. Aviation, healthcare, security and so on...

Well the Goods equivalent got through with no issues, so why should Services be any different? It's almost as if you are desperate for bad news so you can say "I told you so", which is a pretty shit attitude if you ask me.

Anyway, here's some good news for you, from the newly Remain backing Mail.

Britain's manufacturing sector booms as the eurozone's stutters | Daily Mail Online

The PMI takes futures into account as well, so you can save your "but it hasn't happened yet" bullshit.

 

[Gwadien]

How has Tressemé not resigned yet?

 

[Bodhi]

How has Tressemé not resigned yet?

Because she's worth it?

Seriously though she sounds like a broken woman, and needs to fuck off now. Question is, who the hell do you replace her with? Javid? Grieve?

 

[Gwadien]

Because she's worth it?

Seriously though she sounds like a broken woman, and needs to fuck off now. Question is, who the hell do you replace her with? Javid? Grieve?

We need a Brexiteer PM to get us what the Brexit campaigned promised us.

 

[Bodhi]

We need a Brexiteer PM to get us what the Brexit campaigned promised us.

Yep, the current deal stinks of "This is what a Remainer thinks Brexit voters wanted", hence why it focuses on ending Freedom of Movement. Yet if you look at most surveys done after the vote, Sovereignty was the main concern, hence how we've ended up with something nobody wanted.

What didn't help was that there was more than one Leave campaign - you can guarantee someone who followed Labour Leave had different ideas from someone who followed the official campaign, from someone who followed Leave.EU etc. And before the usual "nobody knew what they were voting for" garbage turns up - there were multiple Remain campaigns as well, and multiple potential outcomes from a Remain vote (more Europe or the status quo? do we try to reform or leave them to it etc).

 

[Gwadien]

Yep, the current deal stinks of "This is what a Remainer thinks Brexit voters wanted", hence why it focuses on ending Freedom of Movement. Yet if you look at most surveys done after the vote, Sovereignty was the main concern, hence how we've ended up with something nobody wanted.

What didn't help was that there was more than one Leave campaign - you can guarantee someone who followed Labour Leave had different ideas from someone who followed the official campaign, from someone who followed Leave.EU etc. And before the usual "nobody knew what they were voting for" garbage turns up - there were multiple Remain campaigns as well, and multiple potential outcomes from a Remain vote (more Europe or the status quo? do we try to reform or leave them to it etc).

I dunno, I think the Remain camp was pretty settled for the status quo after Cameron went to the EU and they asked him if he was lost.

We need a Brexiteer to approach the EU with no love and to set down what was promised, we won't though, because what Brexit promised isn't realistic so there isn't anyone who would want to touch that job with a barge pole.

Instead we're going to get another Remain PM who just wants to stick 'Former PM' on their CV when they hand it in to the nearest hedge fund/newspaper. They'll be hated by the Remainers for going through with Brexit and they won't be trusted by the Brexiteers because they're a remainer and everything they do will be seen as defeatist.

 

[Wij]

Well the Goods equivalent got through with no issues, so why should Services be any different? It's almost as if you are desperate for bad news so you can say "I told you so", which is a pretty shit attitude if you ask me.

Anyway, here's some good news for you, from the newly Remain backing Mail.

Britain's manufacturing sector booms as the eurozone's stutters | Daily Mail Online

The PMI takes futures into account as well, so you can save your "but it hasn't happened yet" bullshit.

Looks a bit different outside of the Mail:

United Kingdom Manufacturing PMI | 2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

 

[Wij]

Well the Goods equivalent got through with no issues, so why should Services be any different? It's almost as if you are desperate for bad news so you can say "I told you so", which is a pretty shit attitude if you ask me.

Anyway, here's some good news for you, from the newly Remain backing Mail.

Britain's manufacturing sector booms as the eurozone's stutters | Daily Mail Online

The PMI takes futures into account as well, so you can save your "but it hasn't happened yet" bullshit.

To the best of my knowledge goods hasn't gone through by the way. These things take time and schmoozing. Bulls in china-shops need not apply:

What’s really happening on tariff quotas and Britain’s WTO commitments?

 

[Embattle]

As much as I don't want it to happen, the only possible way it could is with another referendum, but this time tightly worded and explicit about the options, and I very much doubt that's going to happen.

It won't work well, it isn't likely to be fair, people still won't accept it, etc.

The other night Caroline Lucas implied there should be just two options on a future ballot, May's deal or remain which caused Jacob to chime in about how did removing one of the original options become acceptable.

Deciding what to put on a future one would be an argument in itself. Lets use another example of all three options (Leave/May/Remain) being on a ballot, how do you weight each answer since if you do it on purely which ever gets the most votes then that ends up looking like little more than an attempt to divide and conquer the leave vote between hard and soft leavers.

I suspect in the future Article 50 might get some reworking or could even up being removed.

 

[Hawkwind]

Europe does not need the UK for anything...

Good to know that the EU will be fine with around 67 Billion less Euros a year, net trade it does with UK - in EU favour, just in case that was not clear.

Link before @Scouse goes mental on me
Statistics on UK-EU trade - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

Oh, and as an occasional visitior to the UK I would agree that cleanleness is an issue. The don't give a fuck attitude by a lot of people in UK regards littering etc is appalling.

 

[Scouse]

Yep. We need Singapore-like fines for littering.

 

[Job]

So now no deal brexit HASNT been ruled out after every TV expert assuring us it has..because someone has read another dusty book of ye old parlifentary rulz.

Im sure if someone properly went over the documents they could prove we never actually joined and a guy in Slough who works on the 4th floor of the council waste dept is the king of England.

 

[Bodhi]

To the best of my knowledge goods hasn't gone through by the way. These things take time and schmoozing. Bulls in china-shops need not apply:

What’s really happening on tariff quotas and Britain’s WTO commitments?

Well we applied back in June, and I'm guessing nothing was veto'd in it during the 3 month consultation period, otherwise you would have posted a link about it by now.

 

[DaGaffer]

Good to know that the EU will be fine with around 67 Billion less Euros a year, net trade it does with UK - in EU favour, just in case that was not clear.

Link before @Scouse goes mental on me
Statistics on UK-EU trade - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

Oh, and as an occasional visitior to the UK I would agree that cleanleness is an issue. The don't give a fuck attitude by a lot of people in UK regards littering etc is appalling.

No-one's going to "lose 67 billion euros", that's a silly argument. Trade isn't going to stop, it's just going to become more expensive and difficult to administer, and the question is "who can absorb more damage?" And the answer to that is obviously the EU.

 

[Bodhi]

Looks a bit different outside of the Mail:

United Kingdom Manufacturing PMI | 2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

Still looks bigger than the number for the rest of the EU. So despite being in the sunny promised land of the EU, and not affected by the current shitshow in parliament, our manufacturing industry is still growing faster than theirs.

 

[Bodhi]

It won't work well, it isn't likely to be fair, people still won't accept it, etc.

The other night Caroline Lucas implied there should be just two options on a future ballot, May's deal or remain which caused Jacob to chime in about how did removing one of the original options become acceptable.

Deciding what to put on a future one would be an argument in itself. Lets use another example of all three options (Leave/May/Remain) being on a ballot, how do you weight each answer since if you do it on purely which ever gets the most votes then that ends up looking like little more than an attempt to divide and conquer the leave vote between hard and soft leavers.

I suspect in the future Article 50 might get some reworking or could even up being removed.

A common comment I am seeing is that a 2nd Referendum wouldn't give us any answers, it would just unleash a whole load more questions.

Biggest one - are we doing best of 3 now?

 

[CorNokZ]

Another pile of shite, we are far to woven into Gallileo to be pushed out, seriously..just seriously, are they even thinking of restricting access codes to one of Europes nuclear powers, the front line of their defence and a permanent member of the security council.
I cant even....
Just that threat, the utter audacity of it, says everything about the mentality down at Brussels...fuck me they need to be stopped.

There are a million concerns with Gallileo, starting with it actually being a Europe wide tracking facility..which they will put in place under, if we don't know where you are, you are up to something argument....every single car will be tracked 24/7..then your phone, then you...they have allready made gps mandatory in all European cars.
The EU empire is heading the same way as the Chinese, every step is reasonable until you find yourself falling foul of the EU commission of citizen behaviour.

You don't want to be part of EU but you still want to be part of its programmes?

That's like leaving a company and expecting to still get paid because you think you did a great job while you were there...

 

[Scouse]

Still looks bigger than the number for the rest of the EU. So despite being in the sunny promised land of the EU, and not affected by the current shitshow in parliament, our manufacturing industry is still growing faster than theirs.

Who gives a fuck about manufacturing? We're a service industry country.

 

[Bodhi]

Who gives a fuck about manufacturing? We're a service industry country.

Manufacturing companies... Duh.

Good job the Services PMI is showing expansion too.

 

[Jupitus]

Who gives a fuck about manufacturing? We're a service industry country.

Indeed. Not so rosey:

Growth 'stalls' as UK service sector slides

https://cdn.ihs.com/www/blog/1342805_1342822_1.0.PNG

Edit: found a better graph

 

[Scouse]

Funny that your post directly contradicts @Bodhi eh @Jupitus?

 

[Jupitus]

Funny that your post directly contradicts @Bodhi eh @Jupitus?

The index is over 50 so he is correct. I still say not rosey due the the poor trend and the fact its only been this low on a couple of occasions since 2008.