I am a FH squatter
- Dec 23, 2003
To be fair I don't think there should be religious exemptions for human genital mutilations either.
I think allowing animals to live in shit conditions then suddenly getting upset over how they're killed is utterly ridiculous.Well, you fucking should.
There's a huge difference in animal welfare between stunning an animal and/or instant death and hoisting something up by it's back legs and slitting its throat to let it bleed out over time.
Religious exemptions should be banned totally. It's disgusting and indefensible - and ONLY there to satisfy people who're willing to turn criminal in defence of their sky fairy.
Just in case the above isn't clear: FUCK THAT.
As for the industrial-scale problem of wholesale food production standards dropping - that's a much more important issue as it affects all produce - animals and vegetables, and has cruelty/ethics/quality and safety implications across the whole food chain, rather than being restricted to a small subset of animal slaughter.
But still. Fuck kosher and halal. It's morally indefensible and at no point should we be allowing those barbaric practises to continue just to satisfy blinkered idiots.
I think problems are addressed in small increments over time.I think allowing animals to live in shit conditions then suddenly getting upset over how they're killed is utterly ridiculous.
You're reaching desparately here.Sure I'm reading from the Vegan bible, but it shouldn't all be dismissed and we should take lessons away form it.
My point is, lets ensure that Vegans can't go around filming the awful conditions animals can be in by preventing it, then we can talk about how they're killed.
I think you're jumping to your usual left wing accusation bullshit.I think problems are addressed in small increments over time.
At the moment we've got so-so conditions for our animals, and "best practice" over slaughter procedures. Allowing slaughter procedures to be cruel is a significant worsening of a not-great situation and absolutely not to be dismissed in an idiotic "well, if bits of it are shit then it ALL can be shit" baby-out-with-the-bathwater fit of pique.
You're reaching desparately here.
Vegans do indeed have an argument about whether we should be eating animals at all. Totally accept that.
But what's "ridiculous" is to try to use vegans to justify an argument that it doesn't matter how animals are killed. Vegans would, rightly, be absolutely horrified that someone who can't say "yeah, I'm being a bit fucking silly in a knee-jerk defence of muslims" would try to use their arguments for the advancement of animal welfare to argue for the reversal of exactly that.
Give me a couple of minutes and I'll respond to this...I think you're jumping to your usual left wing accusation bullshit.
I'm not defending kosher or halal, I'm saying there's much more important things to worry about like their life rather than just the end of their life.
I'm fairly sure vegans would agree with me that it's funny people get upset about the deaths of animals but don't care about their life.
Although, that being said, the only way to truly have veganism across the world (and have a sustainable planet) would be to commit a genocide of animals (mostly cows).
Thats always a fun thing to talk about with my two vegan brothers
Is a false (and utterly ridiculous) argument.I'm not defending kosher or halal, I'm saying there's much more important things to worry about like their life rather than just the end of their life.
You posted a picture of two cows in a a field and suggested that's the norm for the millions that are in the UK. :/Right then:
They're pregnant. The farmer comes down and checks them every day. I go out and check them more than that. This isn't an exception to the rule - this is generally how farmers in the UK look after their cattle.
The same goes for sheep. And because the UK consumer does care about animal welfare, organic and free range have become a major feature over the past decades - with campaigns over how chickens are kept bringing about an uplift in day-to-day legal requirements on their welfare. Campaigns that are still running, that have popular support.
Is it ideal? I mean by that - vegan ideal? No - of course not - because "vegan ideal" is that they don't get eaten at all, therefore there's no requirement to house or care for them, and no requirement to slaughter them.
But it's not "cruel". These animals are cared for and farmers feel that burden of responsibility.
That MUST extend to how they are killed. And this tosh:
Is a false (and utterly ridiculous) argument.
It's not either/or. It's both. We care both about their life AND their end-of-life. And both are important.
The sheep in my fields get cared for for their whole life, up until slaughter, where we do it in the most humane fashion possible. They're not crammed in small pens, in small shitholes and ignored or poorly cared for. They live a good life before they're killed as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Unless they're kosher of course - where they're strung up by the legs and then they have their throats slit - without being stunned. - ALL Kosher meat is done that way. (Most halal meat in the UK is stunned first).
How an animal is killed is absolutely integral to it's welfare. And it's not less important than how it lives - end of life is part of how you live. Or we'd just chuck all our grandmas into a meat grinder, and wouldn't that be fine.
I didn't simply suggest that - I have given you an argument. If you don't want to address the points I made, then fine. I've acknowledged that things aren't perfect - we're increasingly going down the battery route in the UK - but none of that justifies increased end-of-life pain - which is the thing you "don't care" about.You posted a picture of two cows in a a field and suggested that's the norm for the millions that are in the UK. :/
Not really unspecific...or leaving it wide open.Undoubtedly a good thing for all kinds of scenarios, but as usual non specific language, leaves it wide open for lawyers to prise everyone with an ingrowing toenail into it.
Read that in his voice - tres amusementOK. Now we have Shatner I'm officially declaring that the remainers were right. Beyond doubt.
Waiting for them to tell us that no deal is actually a deal and that we outfoxed the EU at every turn which is why the negotiations didn't go well.Boris Johnson has insisted he does want a Brexit deal to protect the economy and prevent a hard border in Irelandwww.theguardian.com
Protesting ethanol production being outsourced to Brazil?I missed this one, youve gotta love those EU flag burning French farmers.