Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Scouse]

You really need to shorten your posts man.

Why? To make them more easily digestible.

I'll humour you though - how about: Answer the "explain this" question I asked directly, before we continue properly.


I will, however, make three comments on your post.

I'm game for reforming the political and economic system, let's do it.

under the current system, people travel from poorer countries to richer countries to work in jobs that the natives of that land do not want because they see it as demeaning and paid too little, and can find other ways of making money, illegal or not.

Not any more. Fixed. Natives'll have to suck it up.

people who have fallen on hard times, and may have some aspiration will be put into dead end jobs and won't have the opportunity to escape from it.

You make your own opportunity. It's out there. If you rely on the government to hand it to you then you've failed at life already.


As for fairness - "explain this" - how is it fair for immigrants to do the shit jobs and not the Brits.

This IS fairer.

 

[Job]

Yes so then everything gets really expensive and hey presto we'll end up with large increases in inflation...and everyone gets poor apart from the rich of course...yay

Everything gets expensive..really?
Have you seen how cheap food is...car washes going to go up?
20p on your kebab.


Strawberries are 1.20 in sainsburys...wtf.

We have obscenely cheap food off the back of migrants in terrible conditions..living 5 in a caravan and saving every penny for the family back home.

Thats the reality of free to work around Europe, liberals paint a picture of Uni students working in Parasian fashion houses.

Its 90% migrants working for fuck all.

 

[Job]

Actually seasonal field picking workers are allowed..so the entire farmers going bust is bullshit.

 

[Scouse]

Hate to agree with @Job on this point - but in terms of farming, factory packing and starbucks/pret a manger then that's bob-on.

Pret and Starbucks can fuck off and pay their staff the living wage. It should be against the law to be in a job and still in receipt of benefits of any kind - any shortfall should come out of the CEO's wage and shareholder profits. (Tesco's staff receive benefits. Tesco makes billions in profits.)

£1.20 for strawbs? I can't grow them for that.

Low skilled British people should be getting drafted in, on a decent wage, to harvest these things, to serve these coffees, to do the things in this country that we need to do. If the government sticks to the public's decision, and weather all the businesses whining about them closing down because they can't shift their products at a higher price (or they can't hire, even at a pound-an-hour more) then it's a possible outcome.

Something'll fuck up. But it does boil down to - people only do the shit jobs if they have to. Ethically, it's not right that we draft in foreigners to have a shit life, when it's our shit.

 

[Scouse]

Actually seasonal field picking workers are allowed..so the entire farmers going bust is bullshit.

Not for long.

 

[dysfunction]

You say that as though these workers being dragged here and forced to work for low wages. They have actually chosen to come and work here.
They will be getting more here than they would elsewhere.

It will get fucked up because tipping the supply and demand scale doesn't end well.

 

[Scouse]

You say that as though these workers being dragged here and forced to work for low wages. They have actually chosen to come and work here.

I'm under no illusions that that how it worked.

However @Job is right that what has happened is that globalisation has driven down wages for the low skilled and indigenous that can't compete.

In the absence of reforming where wealth goes - inordinately to the already super rich - then these tiny structural fixes are what will happen. Until we, as a society, grow some brains and a pair of balls and demand a fairer system then we're going to have to suck it down.

 

[Ormorof]

How many people actually sit doing nothing, its a great talking point but every time ive looked into it the number is absurdly small

 

[DaGaffer]

Wow, what a load of bollocks. This pool of Great British unwashed, just waiting to be picked up and put into menial jobs by fair means or foul (and I agree with @Gwadien, thanks to Universal Credit, "foul" is the more likely) are not the resource that are going to fix or even maintain Britain's employment needs. Even at a very practical level, most of them aren't in the places where the jobs are (e.g. the South East) and couldn't afford to move down even if they wanted to because they've demonstrably proven they're unwilling to tolerate living conditions that immigrants would. This is the start of a death spiral. At the most fundamental level, immigration was Britain's end-run around its ageing population and low birth rate problem; that's now been cut off at the knees. Britain was the main beneficiary of Europe's increasingly scarce supply of young people, and we've fucked that off to keep a bunch of Daily Mail readers who didn't have the decency to just fucking die already happy that they don't have to hear people talking foreign on the bus. Well done, I hope you enjoy wiping your own arse when you're drooling in your care home.

 

[Job]

Islamaphobic?
We need to ramp it up to even get a guest pass.
How Hindu supremacists are tearing India apart

 

[Embattle]

Critics need to wise up and listen on UK immigration

 

[Gwadien]

Embattle in a shock blind following of Tory policies.

 

[Scouse]

Still not answering the ethical question I posed twice @Gwadien.

Surely you're better than being the FH "Job of the left?"

 

[Scouse]

I don't disagree @DaGaffer. But if we value these roles, really value them, then we shouldn't be getting them at slave-labour rates.

 

[Gwadien]

Still not answering the ethical question I posed twice @Gwadien.

Surely you're better than being the FH "Job of the left?"

Which question? Why is it acceptable for immigrants to do the shit jobs and the natives not?

Because that's capitalism.

Why is it acceptable for you to have the position of 'I don't care because it doesn't effect me'?

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't disagree @DaGaffer. But if we value these roles, really value them, then we shouldn't be getting them at slave-labour rates.

They"re not "slave labour rates". What they often are is "erratic" rates, seasonal rates or part-time, but no-one is being paid below minimum wage unless employers are breaking the law.

But the real problem is that despite Britain's best efforts to wind the clock back to the sixteenth century, Britain is still part of the global economy; things like food prices come from global supply and demand and British farms that tried to pay people "living wages" will go bust in short order because the rest of the value chain won't allow it. Supermarkets will simply leverage their buying power or go elsewhere because consumers will not tolerate higher prices. This is not the world as you want it to be, it's the world as it is.

Dominic Cummings and his ilk give no fucks about anyone doing low paid jobs or a permanent underclass having to do them because they will use the shrunken economy to justify removing social protections altogether on cost grounds, and if people die as a result, so be it. The market has spoken. These fuckers think Atlas Shrugged is a how-to guide.

 

[Scouse]

Which question? Why is it acceptable for immigrants to do the shit jobs and the natives not?

Because that's capitalism.

Weak. As. Fuck.

The question is why is it ethically acceptable to allow immigrants to do work we deem beneath us. Quite racist of you right there.

Your argument is that capitalism is a moral arbiter now is it?

Wowzers. Is it actually possible to fail harder?

Why is it acceptable for you to have the position of 'I don't care because it doesn't effect me'?

I've already answered that, directly, twice.


Turns out you are the Job of the left.

 

[caLLous]

Brexiteer blasts immigration plans as 'catastrophic' for fishing industry

 

[Job]

BBC - Ethics - Slavery: Attempts to justify slavery

Point 5.

 

[Yoni]

What about it?

 

[DaGaffer]

BBC - Ethics - Slavery: Attempts to justify slavery

Point 5.

Nice try. Not slaves.

 

[caLLous]

 

[Scouse]

Kinda glad if it does. We're raping our esturine ecologies.

 

[Job]

View: https://youtu.be/HObmY9D1fkk

 

[DaGaffer]

View: https://youtu.be/HObmY9D1fkk

LOL. Of all people, Mick Wallace complaining about other people's tax affairs; a man who made €1.4m of false VAT declarations. How the fuck he's even allowed to be a TD or an MEP boggles the fucking mind.

 

[fettoken]

I heard you British commoners don’t get to vote on who goes to Eurovision to compete, because, in extention and practice, your taste in music sucks major dick. Perhaps that should be extended to voting in large as well?

 

[Gwadien]

I heard you British commoners don’t get to vote on who goes to Eurovision to compete, because, in extention and practice, your taste in music sucks major dick. Perhaps that should be extended to voting in large as well?

Are you suggesting that the Eurovision is a high point of musical talent?

 

[fettoken]

Are you suggesting that the Eurovision is a high point of musical talent?

I’m just saying that this is you guys:



Also, placing last in every contest. Blair worked out for ye? How’s Tories doing?

 

[Gwadien]

I’m just saying that this is you guys:

View attachment 41123

Also, placing last in every contest. Blair worked out for ye? How’s Tories doing?

I mean, the Eurovision IS very continental Euro pop, which means that its manufactured music, but 10 years behind the trend.

If you think the music produced on the Eurovision is good, then I think you should have your ears checked.

 

[Wij]

In other words, his deal was shit and he’s trying to renege on it.

PM Johnson's Brexit team seeks to evade Irish Sea checks on goods - Sunday Times