Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Gwadien]

Yes its fair depending at what level you are prepared to judge both of them.

Okay.

Nazi Germany conquered Europe through military power, if those countries who got conquered asked to leave their political union, then it would be likely the answer would be no, and there would be some form of military intervention. Also, the Nazis would have enforced the persecution of many minorities, asking us to send them to their deaths.

I don't recall the EU doing any of that.

The problem is @Job when you make ridiculous comparisons like the EU to Nazi Germany and the EU to the Soviet Union then you might be able to grab the attention of the less intelligent people in society, but all you're doing for all the people that have a degree of knowledge about history, that the comparison is utterly stupid and incorrect. Then those people are likely to switch off from your arguments and are less likely to 'come together' for the future of Britain.

 

[caLLous]

Lulz
EU without us.

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The 5 or 6 countries that whatever right-wing blog you stole that from has omitted to fail at making a point would like a word.

 

[Scouse]

An AWFUL lot of people do.

There's an awful lot of fucking idiots on the planet.

 

[DaGaffer]

A lot of AWFUL people do.

FTFY.

 

[Job]

Okay.

Nazi Germany conquered Europe through military power, if those countries who got conquered asked to leave their political union, then it would be likely the answer would be no, and there would be some form of military intervention. Also, the Nazis would have enforced the persecution of many minorities, asking us to send them to their deaths.

I don't recall the EU doing any of that.

The problem is @Job when you make ridiculous comparisons like the EU to Nazi Germany and the EU to the Soviet Union then you might be able to grab the attention of the less intelligent people in society, but all you're doing for all the people that have a degree of knowledge about history, that the comparison is utterly stupid and incorrect. Then those people are likely to switch off from your arguments and are less likely to 'come together' for the future of Britain.

So you think a German led EU has conquered Europe.

 

[Gwadien]

So you think the EU has conquered Europe.

No.

The EU invited other nations to join it, and I return it enforced certain things upon those members and return gave many benefits, especially for the poorer nations - which is why countries like Poland that has a popular right wing won't really question leaving the EU because they know they rely on it. Also because when wars do kick off, countries like Poland always have most of the brunt.

The important part is though if any nation wishes to leave because they're unhappy with the EU then they can.

I really do not see how that sounds anything like the Nazis.

The only argument I can understand is that Germany is obviously dominating the EU and is a German brain child because of the necessity to have countries to trade with easily because of its export heavy industry, they haven't invaded though, and all countries that sign up know exactly what they're signing up for and as I can't stress enough, are free to leave.

 

[Job]

Oh yes you can leave, but I think events since the referendum have shown there are strong forces at play to thwart this and on here and in certain powerful places in the EU a desire to punish and ridicule us for daring to leave.

They are big..we are small, they will crush us, the ball is in their court,...

It may not be tanks and soldiers; but if they can nearly do it to us, imagine how easily they can do it to the far weaker states.

 

[dysfunction]

Oh yes you can leave, but I think events since the referendum have shown there are strong forces at play to thwart this and on here and in certain powerful places in the EU a desire to punish and ridicule us for daring to leave.

They are big..we are small, they will crush us, the ball is in their court,...

It may not be tanks and soldiers; but if they can nearly do it to us, imagine how easily they can do it to the far weaker states.

The EU haven't done anything to us. According to you what have they done to stop us leaving?

 

[Gwadien]

Oh yes you can leave, but I think events since the referendum have shown there are strong forces at play to thwart this and on here and in certain powerful places in the EU a desire to punish and ridicule us for daring to leave.

They are big..we are small, they will crush us, the ball is in their court,...

It may not be tanks and soldiers; but if they can nearly do it to us, imagine how easily they can do it to the far weaker states.

The EU hasn't nor will it have a say in the impact of Brexit to the UK.

The EU clearly set out what would happen if a nation left the EU, they haven't changed anything because we're the UK.

Obviously the EU has an opinion on us leaving the EU, and if anything, the EU sharing it's opinion on this has had a damaging effect on the Remain campaign, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about it.

It's like suggesting that we shouldn't have an opinion about Scotland leaving the UK. Or about America electing a new President, or any other global political event.

Even so, I still don't see how this comes close to join us or die.

 

[Gwadien]

Also @Job if you felt you were living under the 4th reich, why didn't you leave?

 

[Job]

We were never going to be part of it and constant re election of Farage to represent us in Europe is clear evidence of our anti EU psyche.

 

[Job]

The EU haven't done anything to us. According to you what have they done to stop us leaving?

They didnt try to stop us leaving by any direct means because there is no such legal process.
They simply drummed up support for the remain side by not so subtle threats of disaster.

 

[caLLous]

I'd say 99% of the rhetoric either way about Brexit has been domestic, how have the EU "drummed up support for the remain side"? They don't think it's a good idea and they don't want the UK to leave, what's wrong with them stating that? Remember, it's the UK leaving the EU, the EU has absolutely no duty to lay down and make it easy - quite the opposite in fact.

 

[dysfunction]

They didnt try to stop us leaving by any direct means because there is no such legal process.
They simply drummed up support for the remain side by not so subtle threats of disaster.

Ok cool you agree they didn't do anything.

 

[DaGaffer]

Ok cool you agree they didn't do anything.

It doesnt matter; the "EU is the enemy" narrative needs to go into overdrive now, because any failures Britain has over the next few years (and there will be many) can't be home grown; they have to be someone else's fault, which means the EU has to go from "unelected Bureaucrats" to "evil oppressors"; because then we had no choice but to leave, and the sacrifices (which will be made by the poor, the old and the northern) will all be worth it.

 

[Bodhi]

Well looks like Nissan are off!

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

(If you live in Spain).

 

[Wij]

Well looks like Nissan are off!

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

(If you live in Spain).

Possible scenario. Also read the fine print. They say they couldn't operate if they had tariffs.

 

[Gwadien]

They didnt try to stop us leaving by any direct means because there is no such legal process.
They simply drummed up support for the remain side by not so subtle threats of disaster.

So how is that comparable to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union?

Or are you finally going to admit you were skewering the truth to cause outrage?

 

[DaGaffer]

Possible scenario. Also read the fine print. They say they couldn't operate if they had tariffs.

BMW are saying the same thing about MINI; they're holding off on any work on the next gen MINI until the end of the year, which could mean Cowley gets shuttered and the whole brand moves to Germany. It will all depend on JIT staying intact.

 

[Job]

Nissan 'could pull out of EU and expand in UK after hard Brexit'
In the guard as well
All blag talk, but it does show how interconnected all our economies and tarrifs are.
The EU system would fucking fall over if Nissan did that and I'm sure theyre using it as a bargaining chip with the EU as well.

 

[DaGaffer]

Nissan 'could pull out of EU and expand in UK after hard Brexit'
In the guard as well
All blag talk, but it does show how interconnected all our economies and tarrifs are.
The EU system would fucking fall over if Nissan did that and I'm sure theyre using it as a bargaining chip with the EU as well.

How the hell would Nissan increase its market share in the UK to 20%? No car manufacturer in the UK has had 20%+ share for decades. Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Job]

From wiki 4th Reich.

Some commentators in various parts of Europe have used the term "Fourth Reich" to point at the influence that they believe Germany exerts within the European Union.[6][7][8] For example, Simon Heffer wrote in the Daily Mail that Germany's economic power, further boosted by the European financial crisis, is the "economic colonisation of Europe by stealth", whereby Berlin is using economic pressure rather than armies to "topple the leadership of a European nation". This, he says, constitutes the "rise of the Fourth Reich."[9] Likewise, Simon Jenkins of The Guardian wrote that it is "a massive irony that old Europe's last gasp should be to seek ... German supremacy".[9] According to Richard J. Evans of the New Statesman, this kind of language had not been heard since German reunification which sparked a wave of Germanophobic commentary.[9] In a counterbalancing perspective, the "Charlemagne" columnist at The Economist reports that the German hegemony perspective does not match reality.[10]

This perspective gained particular traction in the United Kingdom in the run up to Brexit and the current negotiations.[11]

It is not an isolated opinion for obvious reasons, Simon Jenkins from the Guardian even wrote of his concern...you cannot just ignore the fact that people are making comparisons, because your ignore tactic isnt going very well is it.

Ww2 was pushed along by the 'its not happening, pass the tea vicar' brigade.

 

[Wij]

How the hell would Nissan increase its market share in the UK to 20%? No car manufacturer in the UK has had 20%+ share for decades. Makes absolutely no sense.

Not unless lots of other manufacturers pull out of the UK.

 

[Job]

How the hell would Nissan increase its market share in the UK to 20%? No car manufacturer in the UK has had 20%+ share for decades. Makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe they have a huge investment in electric cars..Ofgen have announced proposals for an electric car based storage network for renewables.

 

[Wij]

Maybe they have a huge investment in electric cars..Ofgen have announced proposals for an electric car based storage network for renewables.

And everyone will choose Nissan over Jaguar and Tesla?

 

[DaGaffer]

Maybe they have a huge investment in electric cars..Ofgen have announced proposals for an electric car based storage network for renewables.

Everybody is making a huge investment in electric cars so that's not a particular advantage (especially at the moment as only 1-2% of people are actually buying them).

This feels like "gaming every possible scenario" rather than a serious idea.

Not unless lots of other manufacturers pull out of the UK.

Even with tariffs I can't see most manufacturers pulling out altogether; from production, certainly, but not from sales, unless the tariffs are insane of course.

 

[Gwadien]

Nissan are sticking around because all the abdandoned car factories are going to be cheeeaaapppp

 

[Job]

This is the face of the BBC host as the national anthem started playing at 11pm.

 

[DaGaffer]

This is the face of the BBC host as the national anthem started playing at 11pm.

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What's your point?

 

[Bodhi]

How the hell would Nissan increase its market share in the UK to 20%? No car manufacturer in the UK has had 20%+ share for decades. Makes absolutely no sense.

I think they are assuming that if tariffs are set up between the EU and UK then we will buy less German stuff and all buy a Nissan instead.

Doesn't seem entirely likely, but Nissan have been making interesting decisions since Ghosn got arrested, allegedly moving away from golf buggies to hybrids, as people will actually buy those.