Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Scouse]

So we have customs between UK and NI? Otherwise we have a route into the UK from the EU via NI for goods to come in unchecked?

Smells like splitting up the union.

 

[DaGaffer]

So we have customs between UK and NI? Otherwise we have a route into the UK from the EU via NI for goods to come in unchecked?

Smells like splitting up the union.

So? Do you honestly think no deal won't break up the Union anyway? At least this would be a solution in the UK's control.

Moving customs to the natural place for customs checks, the ports, is the only solution that could be implemented immediately and is proven to work.

The kicker for me is that do you honestly think this isn't the solution everyone would have agreed to already if the DUP didn't have a gun to Theresa May's head?

 

[Wij]

So? Do you honestly think no deal won't break up the Union anyway? At least this would be a solution in the UK's control.

Moving customs to the natural place for customs checks, the ports, is the only solution that could be implemented immediately and is proven to work.

The kicker for me is that do you honestly think this isn't the solution everyone would have agreed to already if the DUP didn't have a gun to Theresa May's head?

They were headed down that route until the DUP became all-powerful.

When Bodhi says there was already a Canada-style deal on offer from the EU that's what he is referring to but he neglects to mention that NI had to be in the single-market for goods and the customs union with a border in the Irish Sea. That was always the deal.

I'm not quite so convinced that's where it will end up though. Can't really predict it.

 

[Wij]

Hard to predict because:

Voters don't want another referendum
Voters don't want to leave with no deal
Voters don't want to leave with any deal where the EU still has control over anything (e.g. May's deal or a soft brexit)
Voters don't want to split NI and GB

The things which voters don't want rules out all options available.

 

[DaGaffer]

Hard to predict because:

Voters don't want another referendum
Voters don't want to leave with no deal
Voters don't want to leave with any deal where the EU still has control over anything (e.g. May's deal or a soft brexit)
Voters don't want to split NI and GB

The things which voters don't want rules out all options available.

Except of course "voters" have been asked none of those things

 

[Scouse]

Except of course "voters" have been asked none of those things

This is true - but so is Wij's assertion.

Boris's problem is accurate to be fair - parliament has been very good at saying what they don't want. Couple that with being unable to backtrack on the referendum result without a shitshow happening and we're stuck. Hence him trying to force it.

 

[caLLous]

"I can't be racist, I have friendscabinet members who aren't white!"

 

[Wij]

Except of course "voters" have been asked none of those things

I'd love a referendum on May's deal (THE deal) vs remain but I don't see one happening.

 

[Job]

"I can't be racist, I have friendscabinet members who aren't white!"

Its pretty impressive that a man from a religion that pathalogically despises muslims should be all upset about criticising the burkha

 

[Gwadien]

Its pretty impressive that a man from a religion that pathalogically despises muslims should be all upset about criticising the burkha

Do yourself a favour.

Educate yourself.

Read up on their history.

Sikhism is a religion of war because they've been persecuted throughout their existence, even today by Muslims and Hindus.

In response to your post though, the reason why he's defending other minorities is because he's probably worried that it won't stop there if any of your ignorant lot have more of a say, it'll be the turban next.

From my experience I'd say that Sikhs are the opposite to what you're saying.

But then it's probably easier to be ignorant and scared of someone rather than educating yourself about them.

 

[Wij]

Clown Prince Johnson cowers in the face of the Rebel Alliance | John Crace

 

[Scouse]

Problem I have with the "racism" accusation @Gwadien - is that I've sympathy with Johnson for that. The article was indeed a defence of being able to wear what you like in the UK. But because of the letterbox jibe (the clothes do look like fucking letterboxes) offence has been taken.

And I'm OK with that. A bit of ridicule. It doesn't excuse physical violence or abuse against anyone - but we're going through a redefenition of what is "abuse" based solely on the person who takes offence's hurt feelings.

It discounts progress through ridicule. I'm with Terry Gilliam that it's now sad that comedy in the UK is a neutered piece of shit because execs are scared of people taking offence. (In the early 90's (I think, could be late 80's) Jerry Sadowitz was taken off the TV for being "too offensive" - I think the last straw was when he openly called Jimmy Saville a paedophile and said everybody knew...)

 

[dysfunction]

Awesome!
MPs back bill to block no-deal Brexit

So Election on 15th October if Boris can get that through...

 

[dysfunction]

General Election vote at 9.20pm
Brexit: MPs back delay bill and defeat government - BBC News

 

[Job]

Do yourself a favour.

Educate yourself.

Read up on their history.

Sikhism is a religion of war because they've been persecuted throughout their existence, even today by Muslims and Hindus.

In response to your post though, the reason why he's defending other minorities is because he's probably worried that it won't stop there if any of your ignorant lot have more of a say, it'll be the turban next.

From my experience I'd say that Sikhs are the opposite to what you're saying.

But then it's probably easier to be ignorant and scared of someone rather than educating yourself about them.

So you think by injecting them into liberal UK then suddenly become all hands across the sea.

No they despise each other and 'you know someone who says they dont'.
Has no relevence to the indictrinated hatred between the two groups.

 

[Gwadien]

Problem I have with the "racism" accusation @Gwadien - is that I've sympathy with Johnson for that. The article was indeed a defence of being able to wear what you like in the UK. But because of the letterbox jibe (the clothes do look like fucking letterboxes) offence has been taken.

And I'm OK with that. A bit of ridicule. It doesn't excuse physical violence or abuse against anyone - but we're going through a redefenition of what is "abuse" based solely on the person who takes offence's hurt feelings.

It discounts progress through ridicule. I'm with Terry Gilliam that it's now sad that comedy in the UK is a neutered piece of shit because execs are scared of people taking offence. (In the early 90's (I think, could be late 80's) Jerry Sadowitz was taken off the TV for being "too offensive" - I think the last straw was when he openly called Jimmy Saville a paedophile and said everybody knew...)

So if a politician made an anti-semitic joke, you wouldn't be concerned about their intent towards Jews?

Please, give me an example of the old days of glory where a politician has made derogatory remarks towards a minority and everyone thought it was cool as shit?

70s/80s maybe when paki bashing was all the rage.

I don't understand how you genuinely believe someone should be able to go up to someone and rip the shit out of them and then not expect violence on either sides.

Whilst Boris isn't doing this, he's enabling it by making it a 'conversation'.

As I've said before, I think you look back with serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to free speech and shit, whilst I understand your points completely (Although you will probably say no no no no you don't) I think the whole free speech issue is massively exacerbated by the use of social media and more generally the internet.

 

[Gwadien]

So you think by injecting them into liberal UK then suddenly become all hands across the sea.

No they despise each other and 'you know someone who says they dont'.
Has no relevence to the indictrinated hatred between the two groups.

No, I grew up with Sikhs and they mixed just fine with everyone else.

We have a huge Sikh population, and they are generally pretty cool. I know you don't like the idea of integration, just removal, but it does happen.

I don't understand how you can believe that people of the same religion are pretty much all the same in terms of their views in life purely on the basis of their religion.

 

[Job]

If muslims cant accept...and I am pretty sure its someone else being horrified for them to complete an agenda...a few jokes about extreme clothing, then integration is fucked.

If we cant lampoon their religion or their prophet then we are doomed to be endlessly at cultural war.

 

[Gwadien]

If muslims cant accept...and I am pretty sure its someone else being horrified for them to complete an agenda...a few jokes about extreme clothing, then integration is fucked.

If we cant lampoon their religion or their prophet then we are doomed to be endlessly at cultural war.

Did you see Boris swore in Parliament?

That was for you.

 

[Yoni]

Boz and Moggs behavior over the last couple days has been really disgusting.... Boz for his treatment of his own members and arrogance towards the house and the debates i session and Moggs for his speech last night and subsequent behavior afterwards...

His OMQ today was just awful although entertaining (it you do not have to live with the consequences)

 

[dysfunction]

So MP's vote against have a General Election!
Or not enough have voted for it.

Johnson's call for general election rejected by MPs

So now Boris has to actually do some real work for a change rather than spout lies and bluster.

 

[Scouse]

I don't understand how you genuinely believe someone should be able to go up to someone and rip the shit out of them and then not expect violence on either sides.

Where did I say that?

He'd written an article. An article supportive of wearing what you like. If violence happens why not point at boris rather than people who are personally responsible for violence.

Whilst Boris isn't doing this, he's enabling it by making it a 'conversation'.

He's enabling sexism here is he? It's definitely worth a whole article on the guardian eh?

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/56_Scheisse/status/1169336233178349570

 

[Yoni]

Again last night Ken Clarke instead of putting Moggs in his place, put Boz in his place.... This is what happens when you take the whip away from experienced parliamentarians. As for the behavior of Boz - yesterday he was just a national embarrassment. :/

 

[dysfunction]

Again last night Ken Clarke instead of putting Moggs in his place, put Boz in his place.... This is what happens when you take the whip away from experienced parliamentarians. As for the behavior of Boz - yesterday he was just a national embarrassment. :/

He's always been that way but it used to be charming when he was a harmless buffoon...

 

[Yoni]

He's always been that way but it used to be charming when he was a harmless buffoon...

He is still charming - I may not always agree with him or conservative policies but in terms of quality of debate he currently outshines most of the house.

 

[Embattle]

He is as full of shit as the rest of them, although not uniquely a MP trait at the moment.

Also there is no debate nor will there be and the sooner that building collapses the better, I've yet to decide whether I would want all the MPs at the same time.

 

[Yoni]

What would you do differently @Embattle - I am just interested ?

 

[Embattle]

I'm really not going to bother saying anything because what I said a long time ago still stands, I can see it happening whenever I read this part of the forum or happen to be unlucky enough to catch the news which makes me incredibly angry which in turn makes me both spiteful and ultimately feel ill.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/1169419078286622720