Politics POLL: Brexit Withdrawal Agreement

[Gwadien]

That's a big assumption. We're staring at a choice between no deal, 2nd ref or another delay.

You think people will have any trust in Corbyn if his attitude between now and then is 'dunno, it was them lot, not me. I was sitting on my hands' ?

You think Corbyn will be able to ride in as saviour on a wave of popular adulation if we leave the EU with no deal and the country enters a big fuck off recession or do you think people will think fuck that useless old windbag who did nothing and watched it all happen?

As I said before.

If we don't leave the EU by the time there's another General Election, i think we'll see Labour making their stance very clear.

Whilst I understand that lots of people will see him/Labour as a useless old windbag, I think the damage the Tories could do to Labours post-brexit election would be far worse if the Tories made the next election all about 'Who's not going to put us back into the EU?' and not about 'Who's going to make the best/fairest post-brexit UK?'

 

[Wij]

It's the government's job to get the deal they negotiated through parliament. Labour is presenting their alternative.

Pie in the sky. There is no alternative. The EU negotiating team has packed up. A ‘jobs first’ Brexit is as much unicorns as the Conservative hopefuls. If Corbyn doesn’t like the deal then the only way to stop it is no Brexit.

 

[Job]

EU team packed up..
Seriously, what a joke.

Our second largest economy...oh just leave them to it.
We have an EU army to build.

Things are hotting up bigtime.

 

[Scouse]

Pie in the sky. There is no alternative. The EU negotiating team has packed up. A ‘jobs first’ Brexit is as much unicorns as the Conservative hopefuls. If Corbyn doesn’t like the deal then the only way to stop it is no Brexit.

It's politics. There's always an alternative.

 

[Bodhi]

Is healthcare about efficiency.... I thought it was about helping fellow humans back to good health oO

Well why did you make a point about it then??

But yes, Health Services as are about nurisng people back to good health. And the NHS lags behind most of (State / Insurance based) Europe on that.

 

[Wij]

It's politics. There's always an alternative.

The EU will not throw Ireland under a bus for the sake of a departing member. Even the much talked about German car industry said it opposes compromising the single market just to preserve car exports to the UK.

At some point you have to realise that there is no magic deal where everyone gets what they want.

 

[Scouse]

No @Wij. There's just a load of shit deals where nobody gets what they want. But still - there's always scope for more negotiation (whatever anyone says).

Don't see why you lay this at labour's door though. It's a tory plan, british vote, plan fucked up, tory negotiations.

Tory, tory, tory. But brits still vote 'em in.

 

[Wij]

No @Wij. There's just a load of shit deals where nobody gets what they want. But still - there's always scope for more negotiation (whatever anyone says).

Don't see why you lay this at labour's door though. It's a tory plan, british vote, plan fucked up, tory negotiations.

Tory, tory, tory. But brits still vote 'em in.

Um. Did you see the local and EU election results? Tories hammered and Labour not far behind because they aren't doing anything about it.

At least the Lib Dems and Greens have a clear policy. They are being rewarded for it.

(Brexit party too obviously)

 

[Scouse]

(Brexit party too obviously)

Yes. This. This is the context.

So, Labour can become a brexit party and lose all it's remainers, or become a remain party and lose all the rest of 'em to the Brexit party.

Or it can attempt to straddle the worst of both worlds - and take into account both sides of the equation in the shitstorm we're in. Which looks like what they're trying to do.

 

[Yoni]

Well why did you make a point about it then??

But yes, Health Services as are about nurisng people back to good health. And the NHS lags behind most of (State / Insurance based) Europe on that.

My point was in order for the UK NHS to improve it needs more funding ie higher taxation

 

[Himse]

My point was in order for the UK NHS to improve it needs more funding ie higher taxation

I don't make many posts, but I don't think it needs to just have a bottomless pit of money.

The whole structure & the amount of cost around the NHS needs to be considered. Not to just cut away at it / give it a giant bucket of money.

 

[Yoni]

I don't make many posts, but I don't think it needs to just have a bottomless pit of money.

The whole structure & the amount of cost around the NHS needs to be considered. Not to just cut away at it / give it a giant bucket of money.

No one is saying it should be a bottomless pit... however, having had encounters with hospitals and doctors in UK / NL and Swe I can easily say the UK was by far the most underfunded and worst for service.... interestingly both NL and Swe have higher income tax regimes.

 

[Wij]

Yes. This. This is the context.

So, Labour can become a brexit party and lose all it's remainers, or become a remain party and lose all the rest of 'em to the Brexit party.

Or it can attempt to straddle the worst of both worlds - and take into account both sides of the equation in the shitstorm we're in. Which looks like what they're trying to do.

I’ve already said and analysis has shown that Labour is losing more votes by not picking a side than it would by doing so.

It just makes them look indecisive and dishonest. Voters notice.

 

[Gwadien]

I’ve already said and analysis has shown that Labour is losing more votes by not picking a side than it would by doing so.

It just makes them look indecisive and dishonest. Voters notice.

Then by that logic, the Tories nor Labour should win the next election?

I think it's sensible for the greater good of things anyway; do you really want the next 50+ years of politics to be based on the parties attitude to the EU?

 

[Wij]

Then by that logic, the Tories nor Labour should win the next election?

No not necessarily but their vote share has plummeted.

 

[Scouse]

I’ve already said and analysis has shown that Labour is losing more votes by not picking a side than it would by doing so.

I've not seen that. Not being a dick - but I'd like to see that.

From what I can see the tories and labour are both taking a kicking mid-term and brexit parties are doing well.

Personally, I'll be voting green - because brexit is a pile of pish compared to the variety of environmental disasters that humanity is precipitating.

 

[Wij]

I think it's sensible for the greater good of things anyway;

What is?

 

[Wij]

I've not seen that. Not being a dick - but I'd like to see that.

From what I can see the tories and labour are both taking a kicking mid-term and brexit parties are doing well.

Personally, I'll be voting green - because brexit is a pile of pish compared to the variety of environmental disasters that humanity is precipitating.

There was polling for how people would vote if Labour was campaigning for a people’s vote. The difference was large. Google for it. I’m watching telly

Voting Green is fine.

 

[Gwadien]

What is?

Not defining parties on their Brexit stance.

 

[Wij]

Not defining parties on their Brexit stance.

It doesn't matter if you think that. Most voters do.

Corbyn will not be forgiven if he hasn't done everything he can to stop no deal.

Getting angry about it after doesn't count.

 

[Wij]

Pound falls after shock growth dive fuels fears of recession

 

[caLLous]

WATCH: Brexit voters 'knew they were putting their jobs at risk', claims Leadsom

She talks about the government leaflet as if the Leave campaign didn't ridicule it and dismiss it as part of "Project Fear".

 

[Wij]

WATCH: Brexit voters 'knew they were putting their jobs at risk', claims Leadsom

She talks about the government leaflet as if the Leave campaign didn't ridicule it and dismiss it as part of "Project Fear".

I love this take. Apparently all Leave voters believed everything the Remain side said and nothing that the Leave side said.

It makes perfect sense and therefore I renounce my Remain heresy.

 

[Bodhi]

No one is saying it should be a bottomless pit... however, having had encounters with hospitals and doctors in UK / NL and Swe I can easily say the UK was by far the most underfunded and worst for service.... interestingly both NL and Swe have higher income tax regimes.

Even more interestingly the Dutch use a Socialised Health Insurance model, rather than full state provision, and the Swedes seem more than happy to pay for a GP appointment.

Neither of which ideas I'd be opposed to seeing brought in in the UK.

But then I forgot the NHS is the envy of the world. You can tell by how many countries have copied it.

 

[Yoni]

I however do not think US is the answer there are better examples closer to home.. I have never lived there but I quite like the German model as I said earlier...

The cost for a doctors appointment in Sweden is great as it is the same cost no matter what and there is a ceiling.

 

[Scouse]

Guy who's screaming loud in the distant background of this is a hero. I completely zone Boris out

*bbc content for those who can't see it.

 

[Job]

Screaming man for Prime minister!!

 

[Bodhi]

I however do not think US is the answer there are better examples closer to home.. I have never lived there but I quite like the German model as I said earlier...

The cost for a doctors appointment in Sweden is great as it is the same cost no matter what and there is a ceiling.

Neither do I, in fact I don't know of anyone suggesting we move to a US based system - which utterly bewilders me when the true NHS believers piss and moan about the US System when anyone suggests the NHS could do with a reform or two.

 

[Job]

So Danny Baker posts a picture of a monkey in a suit and is sacked on the spot for racism.

Jo Brand suggests brexiters should have battery acid thrown on them.


And it a joke..people..a joke.
Wheres your sense of humour?
Free speech and all!

Yes..free speech and thats a clear incitement of the most horrendous disfiguring violence, but a monkey in a suit...burn him!!!
Nigel Farage reacts furiously to Jo Brand joke, demanding police act over 'incitement of violence'

 

[Scouse]

Read the whole story @Job.