Please Dont ADD ffs!

[Niko]

Well then don't complain then. You will achieve nothing... but well except amusing us perhaps. Because the only thing I can do when I see a GG complaining about adding, is laugh. If you ask for reasons, see the initial posting from Bebop.

This made no sence to me at all, but I'm happy I'm amusing you atleast.

 

[Adianna]

I just felt I had to put a few sents into this thread since I've whined a lot about adds.

...

What's the point of getting realm rank when all you've done is killing defenceless players? There probably is someone who enjoys it, but I think most ppl know what I'm talking about here.

It's not that I don't want to share realm points with my realm, I simply just want fair fights.

If YOU can't respect that, then I wont respect you either.

And now please read the threads very first post and perhaps then you might understand why you're amusing me.

 

[Niko]

And now please read the threads very first post and perhaps then you might understand why you're amusing me.

I see your point, though I don't come here and complain when I die to a fg when I'm duoing, think I had a total of 35 deaths last night, from FGs . Yes, it happens that soloers die, but we also try to avoid killing them, depending on who it is etc.

If I was a mid or an alb, I wouldn't think, I would just waste you, cause you've publicly admited that you're a zerging leech. Then you only have yourself to blame for it.

 

[Adianna]

I see your point, though I don't come here and complain when I die to a fg when I'm duoing, think I had a total of 35 deaths last night, from FGs . Yes, it happens that soloers die, but we also try to avoid killing them, depending on who it is etc.

If I was a mid or an alb, I wouldn't think, I would just waste you, cause you've publicly admited that you're a zerging leech. Then you only have yourself to blame for it.

Well that's what amuses me. That bad evil bainshee is adding on me. She is so evil so... I have to add her aswell... "Because the others don't do it" isn't an excuse. You're giving up your style of playing, because that evil adder just ... well... what did I do? Yes, you want to take revenge on me. and by that, throwing away my all high and mighty attitude about not adding and fair fighting. Congrats. Just made yourself either a jerk or a liar. You either want fair fights, then you won't add, or you don't want fair fights and add. There is no in between...

Now that is something I'd call dishonourable and of course amusing. Not standing for what you said.

PS: Didn't mean you in particular but more or less this "You fucking adders"-QQ people in general.

PPS: I think I've written it somewhere here, that I don't care getting added on. That's what I play for. It's just amusing me how fast people can throw away their code of honour.

 

[Dreami]

Nice generaliasation, but sure, PE rolls over any **** NFD player trying to solo,
because they always add with their FG(s).

 

[Adianna]

Nice generaliasation, but sure, PE rolls over any **** NFD player trying to solo,
because they always add with their FG(s).

One question... do you expect anything what you've written taken seriously with an avatar like that?

 

[daoc_xianghua]

How the hell does having the time to ML + Arti + perfect template your char make you in anyway smarter? Or harder working. Just because some people have a life and family/work commitments outside of playing a computer game does not make them stupid or lazy. Many people play for fun and ML and Arti what they can, when they can. But in your world, I suppose these people are 'thick' and should have no part in your elite's only game world.

Get a frigging life mate. It's a game people play for fun and they should be able to. Elite kiddies syndrome is not making the game any better. most players want GOA to market the product better in the UK and get more players in the community. All you want to do is insult them, pathetic!

smarter as in they know that anything else than fully toa´d/ML´d chars in a balanced group is like suicide when you meet a decent guild group. thought it was quiet obvious how it was meant but guess not

 

[Boggy]

What I find funny is that when one realm become dominant in the zerging, all the others suddenly starts whining, if it aint overpowered then its power in numbers, they get blamed for zerging and ruining RVR. And the funniest of all is that it very often is the exact same people that have ran in zergs that whines the loudest. Is it fine to zerg and act like a pig, when you win? But when you get it done to you, it suddenly isnt?

I think this is at the heart of it all.

If there were people who I know have STRICT codes of play and adhere to them no matter what, I would not add on those people. There are actually one or two soloers who I believe this to be true for and I try not to add on, but for most other people, the "don't add" thing only counts when it suits them. Rather than getting into the complex web of recrimminations and accusations that happens on FH, I just have to recognise that without a game mechanic to support the style of play, I might as well just attack any enemy I see and be safe in the knowledge that everyone adds on me when it suits them, regardless of what they say on FH.

 

[daoc_xianghua]

you are correcta in that post. but a matter of fact stil, some classes must add to get a chance to get any Rp's at all. i.e paladins aren't the greatest class you can play in RvR as my main is an paladin , had some nice 1vs1 fights vs rastafarion yesterday, no add aswell.

let's get to the point, it's really hard for me getting rp's for my paladin in fights as he get's targeted by elds, chanters, bd's , sm's and such first.
so somtimes i add on 3v3 fights or bigger, even tho i'm considering to add or not to add everytime.

maybe try play in a group? paladin is not rly a solo/duo char

there is no class ingame that has to add to get rps, it just depends if you play the class as its meant to be played, or if you just do what you like most.
if solo/duo is what you like most you should maybe consider to roll a char that fits better in that category.

ps. not a flame, just my thought

 

[daoc_xianghua]

Oh you don't have to respect me, I don't care. You're probably a person I'd least like to fight with. Besides it won't change a thing. If you really think, all I am after are RPs then, believe it or not, you're completely wrong. I am after the first two Ms in MMORPG when I play DAoC. There are no fair fights in this game, there can't be any. It has a reason that there are 3 realms fighting each other. So if you ask what's the fun about adding and being added? It's unpredictable. That's the fun about RvR. If it would just be about fair fights and so on... I do play several tactic shooters. That's more or less fair and equal.

PS: I can respect that you want those fights, but that, as a matter of fact, is the complete contrary to my style of playing. So who's right is it now? Yours? Mine? Whose? As always the only thing I can suggest you, say your enemies who are after 8 vs 8 where you can be found and go a little of the track. You mustn't be surprised if you get added when you're in a zone with 1 player per square foot.

who´s right it is? well if we look back at the last 4 years it was ppl with the same attitude as you who took the right without a 2nd thought and without even consider that there might be some ppl who actually dont like it.

but HEY whatevah atleast you enjoy the game, right? and thats all what counts, right? Right.

 

[Boggy]

Your style of play is to build a perfect group. Believe me, there are people who this spoils the game for. There's no point in those people complaining about it though, because it is one of the valid ways of approaching the game.

You think you got the right to complain because people don't go out of their way to play the way you tell them.

 

[daoc_xianghua]

This is how it is from my point of view;

We have the opted guild groups who only plays for the chance of getting an 8 vs 8 fight.

The guild/alliance group of fairly high RR players with a lot of experience walks by or stands and watches the fight.

I guess everyone plays this game for different reasons, how about if we try to respect eachothers reasons for playing instead of using a retarded background story as reason of totally ruining 8 dedicated peoples night of RvR?

You know exactly what you are doing when you are shooting on a group of 8 who are fighting 8 others. You are simply leeching, since you would just insta die if they stopped fighting and turned for you.

What's the point of getting realm rank when all you've done is killing defenceless players?

Got no problem doing my best to respect they way other people want to play the game. As I posted before I made a determined effort last night. However just want to pick uup on a few things you said.

You want to play 8 vs 8 - so are you telling us that Maelstrom, PE or your group would not attack a group of 6 enemy that they see ? Let's see, you want 8 vs 8, you want fair fights, 8 vs 6 is not fair so I guess if I took a group of 6 out I am safe from opted guild groups !!!! Yeah right.

Part of what you talk about makes sense to me the higher RR/more experienced players could be in a better position to make judgements on what is going on, sadly not all the players immediately fit those categories. The voice coms that most of the fixed groups use also helps, far quicker to say "don't add" than type it when someone who knows no better runs in.

Most random groups (even opted ones) would insta die by taking on the likes of Maelstrom in a fg vs fg fight. Yup I agree with that in which case the fight is hardly a fair one. Fair means both sides have a good chance of winning. So are you telling us that if your group saw a fg of enemy that your conversation would be - let's not hit them as we can see they are not Mael/PE etc I think not - I suspect you would jump in and kill them as fast as possible.

You may have lots of rps and ra's but I suspect a fair few of them have been smacking enemy who were not as good as you, not as opted as you or smaller numbers than you.

I still cannot work out why those of you who want fg vs fg fights do not agree to find a small corner of the realm to go play in away from the main RvR areas. You moan about adds but continue to run in the places where you will get them. Instead of moaning why not do something about it. Ah but ofc then you will have no easy prey to grab some rps on.

You want respect but clearly have no thought for your fellow gamers the process needs to be both ways.

tbh guild groups like mael are the reason why i still play this game, farming the randoms = ze boring
ofc you die alot to mael/pe but isnt it challenging to try beat them in even numbers, you might die 19/20 times but that 1 time you beat them with 4-6 realm ranks lower group in average makes it worth the 20 runs imo.

 

[Doink-666]

Bebop i wub j00 <flowerpower ftw>

 

[daoc_xianghua]

I see your point, though I don't come here and complain when I die to a fg when I'm duoing, think I had a total of 35 deaths last night, from FGs . Yes, it happens that soloers die, but we also try to avoid killing them, depending on who it is etc.

If I was a mid or an alb, I wouldn't think, I would just waste you, cause you've publicly admited that you're a zerging leech. Then you only have yourself to blame for it.

oh btw Niko dont bother with Adianna, he is a hopeless case xD

 

[daoc_xianghua]

Your style of play is to build a perfect group. Believe me, there are people who this spoils the game for. There's no point in those people complaining about it though, because it is one of the valid ways of approaching the game.

You think you got the right to complain because people don't go out of their way to play the way you tell them.

i dont tell them how they have to play, i just want them to respect my playstyle and just dont add on my fights, no matter if i win or lose ,simple as that. cant see whats so hard with that seriously

 

[Boggy]

tbh guild groups like mael are the reason why i still play this game, farming the randoms = ze boring
ofc you die alot to mael/pe but isnt it challenging to try beat them in even numbers, you might die 19/20 times but that 1 time you beat them with 4-6 realm ranks lower group in average makes it worth the 20 runs imo.

It's a similar challenge trying to take on an opted group with a random group, or even trying to take on 8 people with 6 people.

One thing I never really understood about opting groups (possibly because I have never done it) is where the main challenge comes from. All the information is public domain. You can look up the classes and skills you need to build your group then getting them is just a matter of PvE and selecting those choices. This gives you your opted group with zero challenge.

Then you get into the challenge of fighting other opted groups, but that is just combat, and would be the same challenge random vs random as opted vs opted.

 

[Boggy]

i dont tell them how they have to play, i just want them to respect my playstyle and just dont add on my fights, no matter if i win or lose ,simple as that. cant see whats so hard with that seriously

Asking them to respect your play style is not the same as asking them to play a different way to accomodate it, which is what you are doing.

 

[Niko]

Your style of play is to build a perfect group. Believe me, there are people who this spoils the game for. There's no point in those people complaining about it though, because it is one of the valid ways of approaching the game.

You think you got the right to complain because people don't go out of their way to play the way you tell them.

You obviously dont read that well tbh, ANYONE can play however the FUCK they want to, it's a question about FAIR.

 

[daoc_xianghua]

It's a similar challenge trying to take on an opted group with a random group, or even trying to take on 8 people with 6 people.

One thing I never really understood about opting groups (possibly because I have never done it) is where the main challenge comes from. All the information is public domain. You can look up the classes and skills you need to build your group then getting them is just a matter of PvE and selecting those choices. This gives you your opted group with zero challenge.

Then you get into the challenge of fighting other opted groups, but that is just combat, and would be the same challenge random vs random as opted vs opted.

the challenge is not to make a opted setups, it seems to me that some ppl here think you put the right classes in full toa gear + MLs together and voila there is your opted group, thats just wrong. You need to put alot of time and effort into teamplay so ppl get used to each others playstyle. Good groups dont insta pop, they get built over months of constant playing with the same 8 ppl all the time. if you think mael/pe only kills u cuz they are rr10 + opted setup + fully toa´d then you are wrong. they own this server simply cuz their teamplay is a way better than most other groups. Just imagine what would happen if you give mael chars to some random(casual) ppl who know daoc but never played together before, do you think they would be anywhere near as hard to kill as atm? i think not.

its not the rp that is the challenge, nor is it to get an opted fully toa´d group together, its simply the fair 8vs8 fights which can last 5-10 mins+ I prefer having a 10 mins 8vs8 fight and lose at the end over killing 2fg´s randoms 3 times in a row any day. maybe you can understand now why it just blows when such a fight get ruined by some adders who just want rps and easy kills.
and those ppl coming on boards and call me ignorant and tell me that i dont respect their playstyle just makes me laugh, if you have read this carefully you should notice the irony

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

You obviously dont read that well tbh, ANYONE can play however the FUCK they want to, it's a question about FAIR.

I agree. The forum doesn't really help when deciding about who and what fight is/was fair though and I have the feeling that some people will always think it was not fair and QQ.

 

[daoc_xianghua]

It's a similar challenge trying to take on an opted group with a random group, or even trying to take on 8 people with 6 people.

One thing I never really understood about opting groups (possibly because I have never done it) is where the main challenge comes from. All the information is public domain. You can look up the classes and skills you need to build your group then getting them is just a matter of PvE and selecting those choices. This gives you your opted group with zero challenge.

Then you get into the challenge of fighting other opted groups, but that is just combat, and would be the same challenge random vs random as opted vs opted.

btw there is a HUUUUUGE difference between random vs random and opted vs opted. trust me i played in both kinds of group quiet some time and i can tell you the difference is that immense huge that you prolly cant imagine if you have never run in opted group.
in opted groups you use every single ability in the group to maximize your chance to win, you can work out unique tactix for different fight situations.
if same 8 ppl play together all the time you can work out positioning alot better, so casters + healers stay in range to each other without getting interupted all at once. Voice Com is also a great tool for tactics and stuff, like you can tell the bard in your group when you see a free healer behind a tree for example.

thats all things you cant have at all or cant have at that high level of effectiveness in random groups.

 

[Tuorin]

One thing I never really understood about opting groups (possibly because I have never done it) is where the main challenge comes from. All the information is public domain. You can look up the classes and skills you need to build your group then getting them is just a matter of PvE and selecting those choices. This gives you your opted group with zero challenge.

Not in at all on this argument, but this statement is really silly. Zero challenge making an opted group and running through mindless hours of a timesink to get opted? C'mon 75% of the challenge for most is sustaining interest due to all the factors mentioned in almost every thread on this forum. Examples, qq re los, qq re hacks, qq re zergs, qq re baseline stuns, qq re toa, qq re artis, qq re overpowered chars from every realm, qq re adds, qq re lag, qq re time to complete, qq re people stealing artis, qq re buggy mls.

Have to say thats one of the most inaccurate statement I've ever seen on these forums. Random or opted to say that making an opted group through pve is no challenge is living inside a 2 foot square box. You also have to get 8 people or maybe 9-10 people from a pool to run through the whole lot, dedicatedly and have similar log in times. You also have to all be able to get on to some degree. There are numerous more challenges for an opted group than a random one.

With the amount of people leaving the game or have left, mainly because of the majority of qq factors above, you really have to see the wider picture. Its not as linear as a hintbook and selecting characters.

This isn't a flame by the way, just an opinion of an insight into the wider picture.

 

[Boggy]

Xian, it's not that I believe opted groups are successful simply because they are opted. What I am saying is that the challenges you talk about, in terms of positioning, tactics and skill usage are equally present when you play in a group that is not opted. I some cases, even more so because you cannot always use the tried and test tactics people inform you about in forums, etc.

For example, on our guild forum at the moment, we are discussing tactics we can use, and roles we can adopt in combat, when running with our typical guild setup (bard, druid, ani, ani, ani, BM, hero, vamp/druid). We want to avoid as much as possible asking people to play chars they don't enjoy, or excluding guild members from the group.

Compare this to any opted set up and you'll see that the odds are stacked against us in many fundamental respects. This means that our ONLY hope of ever winning 8 vs 8 is to play better than our opponents. Conversely, opted groups could play worse than us and still win simply because they've stacked the deck.

So if it was challenge you were looking for, running in a non-opted group is gonna be more demanding.


Tourin, I don't mind you calling what I said silly and inaccurate, but I completely disagree with you. Every player faces the challenge of maintaining intereste, whether running opted or not. In a guild that does random RvR groups, if everyone has lost interest you find it trouble to fill a random group. Given that this is a challenge for both opted and non-opted set ups, what I said previously stands - I don't really see where the additional challenge from running opted is supposed to come from.

It's true that if the game enforced no adding (or if all players strictly followed that code) the game would be better for people who prefer that play. But it is also true that if people did not form opted or fixed groups, the game would be better for people who run random.

Which puts us right back where we started - there are several types of approach people choose to use, and we really just have to accept that complaining will not change that. In fact, the complaints are mainly spurious since you're not changing the way you play to suit me, so you can hardly criticise me for not changing to suit you.

Niko, you say it's about "fair" but in fact you are imposing your own narrow definition of fairness. I could equally say that a fair fight would be one where noone had the advantage of an opted set up. It would be as true as saying a fair fight is 8 vs 8 and it would be equally unreasonable to expect other players to stick to it.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Xian, it's not that I believe opted groups are successful simply because they are opted. What I am saying is that the challenges you talk about, in terms of positioning, tactics and skill usage are equally present when you play in a group that is not opted. I some cases, even more so because you cannot always use the tried and test tactics people inform you about in forums, etc.

For example, on our guild forum at the moment, we are discussing tactics we can use, and roles we can adopt in combat, when running with our typical guild setup (bard, druid, ani, ani, ani, BM, hero, vamp/druid). We want to avoid as much as possible asking people to play chars they don't enjoy, or excluding guild members from the group.

Compare this to any opted set up and you'll see that the odds are stacked against us in many fundamental respects. This means that our ONLY hope of ever winning 8 vs 8 is to play better than our opponents. Conversely, opted groups could play worse than us and still win simply because they've stacked the deck.

So if it was challenge you were looking for, running in a non-opted group is gonna be more demanding.


Tourin, I don't mind you calling what I said silly and inaccurate, but I completely disagree with you. Every player faces the challenge of maintaining intereste, whether running opted or not. In a guild that does random RvR groups, if everyone has lost interest you find it trouble to fill a random group. Given that this is a challenge for both opted and non-opted set ups, what I said previously stands - I don't really see where the additional challenge from running opted is supposed to come from.

It's true that if the game enforced no adding (or if all players strictly followed that code) the game would be better for people who prefer that play. But it is also true that if people did not form opted or fixed groups, the game would be better for people who run random.

Which puts us right back where we started - there are several types of approach people choose to use, and we really just have to accept that complaining will not change that. In fact, the complaints are mainly spurious since you're not changing the way you play to suit me, so you can hardly criticise me for not changing to suit you.

Niko, you say it's about "fair" but in fact you are imposing your own narrow definition of fairness. I could equally say that a fair fight would be one where noone had the advantage of an opted set up. It would be as true as saying a fair fight is 8 vs 8 and it would be equally unreasonable to expect other players to stick to it.

To a certain degree both of you are right.Maintaining an opted setup takes massive effort on a game level, we're quite lucky personal-interaction wise in ours since we all get along pretty well theres no outright conflicts of personality like ive heard there is in one or two hib guild groups for example (just an example).

Also yes each char has to be sorted exactly right and used exactly right or you may as well be a random group.

 

[Tuorin]

Tourin, I don't mind you calling what I said silly and inaccurate, but I completely disagree with you. Every player faces the challenge of maintaining intereste, whether running opted or not. In a guild that does random RvR groups, if everyone has lost interest you find it trouble to fill a random group. Given that this is a challenge for both opted and non-opted set ups, what I said previously stands - I don't really see where the additional challenge from running opted is supposed to come from.

It's true that if the game enforced no adding (or if all players strictly followed that code) the game would be better for people who prefer that play. But it is also true that if people did not form opted or fixed groups, the game would be better for people who run random.

Any player can join a random group, any character. Only an opted char for that group can join an opted group. I know what you mean re opted making it harder for random groups of course, but you still need to understand the wider picture. The comment that you made about it being no challenge to make an opted group is wrong, I really dunno how you can argue that point in the manner you did. Its a lot more than what you wrote.

Sure everyone random or opted has the interest problem, but then again as I said you can replace one of your uninterested people with random player x. If opted guild groups set their parameters as a) being a member of their guild and b) being opted to the needs of the 8 person group then the loss of one player is far more difficult to recover from and can spell the death knell for that group. So its a lot wider than buy game, do pve, pick right class, enjoy.

The other point to make is you as random groups do not fight opted groups every single fight. There's enough spills for all people in this game to make enjoyment while they play or log if its not their particular cup of tea on this day.

I'm not supporting the foad attitude if you add argument, its impossible to run a night without adds. Everyone is entitled to play as they desire, its their subs, but again to say a group like Mael or PE or Eclipse or Ga or whoever have no challenge to become opted is just wrong.

 

[Jai13]

agagaga kue kue fags. ima gonna add 10x more ololollew;l

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I'm not supporting the foad attitude if you add argument, its impossible to run a night without adds. Everyone is entitled to play as they desire, its their subs, but again to say a group like Mael or PE or Eclipse or Ga or whoever have no challenge to become opted is just wrong.

Bad examples to pick guild-wise - all long established.Hardest is for a fg to make the transition from random to the balanced, oiled machine that is a good opted.Its taken us about three months of 4 nights a week sometimes more to get our shit fully together...

What i was trying to say was for those of you trying to build opteds or start rvr guilds etc persevere.Its a long hard road but the end result is well worth the effort.You might spend an hour sat in CS/SV/DL for example building an opted but you make twice the rps easily once youre out and not many randoms can touch you without a large zerg.

 

[stupeh]

To counter your large zerg?

 

[Boggy]

Any player can join a random group, any character. Only an opted char for that group can join an opted group. I know what you mean re opted making it harder for random groups of course, but you still need to understand the wider picture. The comment that you made about it being no challenge to make an opted group is wrong, I really dunno how you can argue that point in the manner you did. Its a lot more than what you wrote.

Sure everyone random or opted has the interest problem, but then again as I said you can replace one of your uninterested people with random player x. If opted guild groups set their parameters as a) being a member of their guild and b) being opted to the needs of the 8 person group then the loss of one player is far more difficult to recover from and can spell the death knell for that group. So its a lot wider than buy game, do pve, pick right class, enjoy.

The other point to make is you as random groups do not fight opted groups every single fight. There's enough spills for all people in this game to make enjoyment while they play or log if its not their particular cup of tea on this day.

I'm not supporting the foad attitude if you add argument, its impossible to run a night without adds. Everyone is entitled to play as they desire, its their subs, but again to say a group like Mael or PE or Eclipse or Ga or whoever have no challenge to become opted is just wrong.

I never said there was no challenge in making an opted group. What I said was that making random groups is equally challenging when people lose interest.

When you have a fixed group and lose your bard, where do you go? Amongst other strategies, you may try to recruit one from the available people not in fixed groups. If you are successful, the random population has lost another key class, making it harder to form a random group.

In addition, people who only play random groups do not have the ties to a guild group as an incentive to keep playing. It is much more likely for someone who plays random to have nights where he can't get any kind of group or nights where the frontier has GGs out there dominating, making the landscape less fun.

The result of all this is that the ease of making a random group fluxuates a lot, and ranges from being fairly easy to being outright impossible. The challenge in making an opted group boils down to the same difficulties - finding people.

The bit that I DON'T think is a challenge and in fact lowers the challenge of the game in my view is the opting. It relies only on an understanding of game mechanics, which are relatively simple to understand, and once you've built your opted group you have (a) relatively easy fights vs random groups and (b) easier fights vs fixed groups than randoms have. Therefore you've lowered the level of challenge.

 

[Tuorin]

I never said there was no challenge in making an opted group.

You said you can look up classes and skills you need to build your group then getting them is just a matter of PvE and selecting those choices. This gives you your opted group with zero challenge.

Tell me where you never said there was no challenge again?

You said whilst making the statement that it was possibly because you have never done it.

Each (random/opted) has their own problems, you made out there was zero problem for opted hence why I pointed it out and that that point of view was inaccurate.

Anyway, I play green, you do, so lets just play the game and argue over a dead red or blue

Tbh on a sidenote there's no hard and fast rule that people from the same guild make an opted group any better. Most ecl a/s groups are people from several guilds who generally play to a standard, adequate enough collectively to compete as hoped. I'm not aware of any real agro amongst ecl a/s groups as you suggest Evita, but your main point makes sense regarding time and practice and honing skills.