Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

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old.Wildfire

Guest
With sorceror and minstrel love in 1.60, and various other tweaks all round, what do people now think SERIOUSLY (no minor / bitter replies plz) needs doing in terms of class balancing for their own realm? No suggesions of the sort "make this class uber because X realm has Y uber ability" My thoughts are as follows.

  • Archers
  • Earth Theurgists
  • Spirit Cabalists
  • Clerics

Archers - I do feel a tad sorry for these guys, although I must say I'm not sure their plight is quite as severe as some might say. I'd personally like to see archers given the ability to add procs to their arrows to raise their damage output as a compensation for having to deal with bladeturns.

Earth Theurgists - I'm levelling one at the moment and, well, what can I say. Once Parox reaches 50 she'll be shelved and only brought out on special occasions. Earth theurgs have so little to offer in RvR. A pair of air theurgs can offer far superior services, and will be far easier to obtain than a single earther. I'd personally like to see a proc added to earth pets (DD or debuff maybe) to give them a viable use in RvR. At the moment air and ice pets are both far more useful due to their casting/stunning capabilities. I'd also like to see earth theurgs given a castable AE stun - perhaps of a shorter duration than the ones currently found in midgard.

Spirit Cabalists - Much like Earth theurgs, spirit cabbies are a very rare (I don't know a single one) breed. Their line brings tough pets but very little else. Perhaps introduction of some AE debuffs, and an AE root would give this line some viability to compete against body and matter specs.

Clerics - I'm not quite sure what needs to be done here, it's tough. The simple answer would be to raise clerics to 1.5x spec points, which would allow for a decent standard in 2 of the lines and a mediocre standard in the 3rd. I'm still stumped though, The smite line needs some serious attention and redesigning.

additionally : wizzies need some help too as all our damage is heat / cold and everyone has these resists capped, but I dont quite know what to suggest yet :eek:
 
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vindicat0r

Guest
Ye some valid points but adding a proc to everything isnt the answer :D < j/k> .

Archers : just stop increasing ther miss/ fumble rates and actually lower it a bit . omfg nerf < ye right >

Earth theurgs : Give them an earth bolt < kind of like the RA > except which can be used like a Fire wiz. Give it same range as pet. would deffinalty incourage ppl to make a theurg if they can bolt from ther pet range , espically since it will be increased soon ^^.

Spirit Cabalist: ye ok

Clerics: Lower speed of smite times , increase dmg slightly and Increase mana cost dramaticly. Smite all u want u will be dry in 6 smites :D or save your group :)

Just a few suggestions , havent played caba or cleric so couldnt say if ther good changes tbh but good thing its only a suggestion ;)
 
K

K0nah

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
additionally : wizzies need some help too as all our damage is heat / cold and everyone has these resists capped, but I dont quite know what to suggest yet :eek:
add a 50% heat debuff to the ice line and make the avalonian player model the same size as a small lurikeen and i'm sorted ;)

and fix dw styles/dirty tricks already ffs!!112`
 
G

gunner440

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
Perhaps introduction of some AE debuffs, and an AE root would give this line some viability to compete against body and matter specs.
they do have a root in spirit line, well a snare and if it's like their single snare, then it will root.

Problem is that if u spec in spirit u totally gimp urself as u won't get much from that line and seeing as u need 30 for the 1st ae root/snare................. lol
 
S

sorusi

Guest
body sorc allready have heat debuff so wizards will never get that :p
 
O

old.Filip

Guest
tbh i think alb's allways will suffer from having to many class's :(

i know there is no chance of that happening but i would like to see 1 of the caster class's to be removed and the spec lines put into the others..

like remove caba or theug and give the stuff they got to wizz/sorc

wizz need some fancy pancy spells and imagine a sorc with nearsigth ? and/or sumonable pet ?

about the clr ? maybee move the PBAOE mezz to the free smite line instead of the spec'ed ?

allso i got a feeling that middis should have some easy're acces to at least 1 of the resist buff lines..
it seems now they got pac or mend/pac healers and cave shamans ...

hibs should just go wank of over there skillz and taktic's
 
O

old.Xanthian

Guest
Hibby caster stun length, need increasing to 12 seconds, to be on par with Midgard stun

:D
 
A

Apathy

Guest
Swap the body debuff on the cabalist Spirit line for the matter debuff on the sorcerer Body line. :p

Archers...pffft. Poor wittle archers. They can only one/two shot every third caster now. How AWFUL!

a.
*
 
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skile

Guest
Originally posted by vindicat0r
Ye some valid points but adding a proc to everything isnt the answer :D < j/k> .

Archers : just stop increasing ther miss/ fumble rates and actually lower it a bit . omfg nerf < ye right >

Earth theurgs : Give them an earth bolt < kind of like the RA > except which can be used like a Fire wiz. Give it same range as pet. would deffinalty incourage ppl to make a theurg if they can bolt from ther pet range , espically since it will be increased soon ^^.

Spirit Cabalist: ye ok

Clerics: Lower speed of smite times , increase dmg slightly and Increase mana cost dramaticly. Smite all u want u will be dry in 6 smites :D or save your group :)

Just a few suggestions , havent played caba or cleric so couldnt say if ther good changes tbh but good thing its only a suggestion ;)
Don't know about future patches. But missing is not a problem (if you don't count PBT). Either is fumbling. Problem is that some tanks can have like 60% resits, feels pretty gimped only to do 200 dmg on em.
 
S

skile

Guest
Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
Swap the body debuff on the cabalist Spirit line for the matter debuff on the sorcerer Body line. :p

Archers...pffft. Poor wittle archers. They can only one/two shot every third caster now. How AWFUL!

a.
*
1/6

Last time i faced an fg.

Last time i faced an enchanter, first shot absorbed by shield, pet nukes ~150, interupt, stun, nuke, mezz, nuke.

And oh, don't forget. U cant escape em either.
 
A

Apathy

Guest
Don't attack a target if you think it's going to go horribly wrong then. :p

Also, change resist debuffs back to instant or keep as castable and increase duration.

a.
*
 
W

-Wedge-

Guest
Well, Therik, the Wizard team lead suggested either a range increase on fire-wizard nukes, or 10% more damage on all wizards nukes... This because Wizard have the least utility of all casters...

Something that would affect all casters would be AoE damage increase, instead of a 100% -> 0% drop-off, a 100% -> 50% drop-off... That would atleast make it a more viable spell...

And ofcourse, I'm still waiting for a bolt-fix... Personally I dont see why we cant use it in combat... A lot of bolt casters agree on this, it has a freaking 20s timer!

If not, at least make its damage based purely on either resists or AF (my preference would go to resists only)...

If the incombat 'feature' stays, remove the recast timer completely... As its not of use on 90% of the targets then anymore anyhow...

And although Archers do suffer, I often team with a scout and he doesnt do bad, he survives longer in battles, does pretty good damage... And on top of that, he has stealth... Sure they cant solo for shit, but in groups their not that bad... Rather have him in my group other then 50% of the 'tanks' out there... One thing I'd like to see though is that a crit-shot goes through BT like PA... And perhaps a look at fumble / miss rate... (but personally I think that their not that bad)

Cant say much about cabby's, they do need some loving in the Spirit line, but dont have one, and dont play one... So cant comment ;)

Earth theurgs need some serious loving if you ever want to see 6s Pbt in RvR... Its a sucky spec, and it has nothing to add except for Pbt... Which you cant even keep 'up' while casting spells, so just adding a spell wont bring 6s in RvR, power drain is very high...

And clerics, not sure, they have gotten a lot of loving already... I'd like to see how the current changes work out... Cast speed increased, stun range increased, the changes in enhance line (the heal-proc's are reverse procs and not 'that bad' )...
 
W

-Wedge-

Guest
And make this Patch 1.60F, then again, F could stand for F*k All...
 
R

Rollie_David

Guest
wizzies fine, all casters suffer from resists except mana chanter who can debuff heat

cleric fine after this patch all main healers get 1.0 spec

cabby spirit/spirit master summon/chanter enchant lines need stuff

all archers need help

earth thurg needs a bolt in the line or something ok but not overpowering

healer aug line needs attention

shammie mend line needs attention and they need 1.5 spec line friars and bards which are both support healers and both have 1.5

skald needs some attention with there Hp

thanes need attention as they suck and are definately the worst tank

MId RA's need help
 
E

Elixir

Guest
Gifv thanes Evade, Mystic Crystal Lore, and the other Realm Abilities that are missing off them and iam happy:clap:

Oh and we need a better "special" RA, the Thanes "special" RA is currently only "Special" because its so unbelievebly crap.
 
H

<Harle>

Guest
Wardens regrowth-line needs attention, the health-regen does fuck all. Maybe and a spec group-heal, and personal mana-regen similar to the end-regen and perhaps the 50%-ress, which should be at a higher spec-lvl than the druids one. Increase resist-buff-timers to 15 minutes, so all recastable buffs are on the same timer. Most important: Make it that our self-haste-buff is not overwritten by the crappy druid-buff ;)

Cut evade by 50% if your enemy is using sword/shield. Atm parry is at 50% if your enemy uses 2-handed, block is at 50% if up against a dual-wielder, so there should be an advantage for using a more defensive spec like sword/shield.

Turn the Bard end-regen into a chant, remove insta-mezz and give them that pbaoe-snare (or even root). Give amnesia and confuse a use in RvR. Oh, and increase to evade 3, to be in line with some class from a certain other realm...

In general fix CD-styles, Mentalism and Enchantment speclines and fix bolts in RvR. Introduce a hard-cap for resists, and give an immunity-timer from air-theurg pet's stun.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
[*]Earth Theurgists


Earth Theurgists - I'm levelling one at the moment and, well, what can I say. Once Parox reaches 50 she'll be shelved and only brought out on special occasions. Earth theurgs have so little to offer in RvR. A pair of air theurgs can offer far superior services, and will be far easier to obtain than a single earther. I'd personally like to see a proc added to earth pets (DD or debuff maybe) to give them a viable use in RvR. At the moment air and ice pets are both far more useful due to their casting/stunning capabilities. I'd also like to see earth theurgs given a castable AE stun - perhaps of a shorter duration than the ones currently found in midgard.
Well, earth theurgists require a boost, certainly. As I would like to see it they should give earth-theurgist a cold debuff on the earth-pets (to make the cold-DD baseline DD179 more viable; just as the mana-chanter can debuff his own heat-DD baseline).

They could give the earthline a GTAoE-spell to make them more viable for keep-defense/offensive. Theurgists where described as siege-specialist, well I can't do shit at a keep-defense as a theurgist.....

With 6 sec PBT, GTAoE and a siege-bolt they come close to my idea of a siege-specialist :)
 
R

Rollie_David

Guest
Re: Re: Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

Originally posted by Puppetmistress


Well, earth theurgists require a boost, certainly. As I would like to see it they should give earth-theurgist a cold debuff on the earth-pets (to make the cold-DD baseline DD179 more viable; just as the mana-chanter can debuff his own heat-DD baseline).

this will not happen, they will not put debuffs into a line so the user can debuff there own damage, the chanter debuff will be moved as the chanter TL is trying to get that done, and thats another reason why the darkness baseline nuke in middy wont go above 43 because of the cold debuff in the rc line.
 
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old.Zarko

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire

additionally : wizzies need some help too as all our damage is heat / cold and everyone has these resists capped, but I dont quite know what to suggest yet :eek:
With SC dont your targets have all resists capped?? But maybe a cold debuff, now that some sorcs have heat, or swap it around as the pbaoe and debuff for same dam. type should not be an option on same char imho.
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by &lt;Harle&gt;
Wardens regrowth-line needs attention, the health-regen does fuck all. Maybe and a spec group-heal, and personal mana-regen similar to the end-regen and perhaps the 50%-ress, which should be at a higher spec-lvl than the druids one. Increase resist-buff-timers to 15 minutes, so all recastable buffs are on the same timer. Most important: Make it that our self-haste-buff is not overwritten by the crappy druid-buff ;)


Most part is true, except for the 50%-ress which I prefer to see on one class only. Druid in your case.

Turn the Bard end-regen into a chant, remove insta-mezz and give them that pbaoe-snare (or even root). Give amnesia and confuse a use in RvR. Oh, and increase to evade 3, to be in line with some class from a certain other realm...
Don't agree here. End-regen as a chant s fine, but now way PBAoE-snare/root. Way too powerful. Amnesia has use in RvR, no need to change it (well; perhaps it should remove the target-list entirely as well) since it interrupts.

In general fix CD-styles, Mentalism and Enchantment speclines and fix bolts in RvR. Introduce a hard-cap for resists, and give an immunity-timer from air-theurg pet's stun.
All true except for the air-pet stun. Since it is the only thing an air-pet does I think it should remain. Remember it costs A LOT of mana and only lasts 20 seconds (minus the time it uses to get to the target). Basically it is the same as the snaring-chanterpet (which is more nasty since it lasts forever)
 
E

eben

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
With sorceror and minstrel love in 1.60, and various other tweaks all round, what do people now think SERIOUSLY (no minor / bitter replies plz) needs doing in terms of class balancing for their own realm?
Good intelligent thread you started there.

Can't really comment about hib, having only played one of them to lvl 20 on PvP, but I know a little about about Mid/Alb.

Here's my 2 copper:

- for all archers, procs sounds great, but I'd try the following on Pendragon: autoselection of most damaging arrow type for each armour. Means you carry slash, thrust and crush arrows but don't have to mess around with changing inventory order around.

- group purge is a trump card. Either remove it or add it to cleric and healer RAs and give druids something new to compensate.

- spiritmaster pet line needs help like cabbie pet line

- thanes are getting there with str/con buff soon and recastable DD. Sort out the special RA though. Perhaps give them pulsing PBAOE like the reaver. Add ressurection to stormcalling line like pally ghetto res.

- shammies need 1.5 spec points and NO MORE new spells please...hotbar is cluttered enough. Make their disease (in fact all disease in the game) have a more noticeable effect and make it spoil instas and other uber-heals.

- let hunter pets stealth with the hunter.

- sort out minstrels pets. Let them have blue pets without losing control. Resists should only happen on yellows and above.

- wizzies need help with heat/cold resists. Give them castable 10% debuff/DD in their spec lines. Perhaps add a wizard familiar (an imp or cat or something, like chanter pet) :)

- Give cleric smite line some love. Hardly see a smiter in RvR anymore.

- Do druids get blue pets? If not then give them to them.

- move all baseline stuns to spec lines :) give hib casters baseline root.

- prevent stacking of bladeturns in a group. Synched BTs are a joke. This will help archers as well as other classes.

- reduce nearsight duration, increase casting time and put it on an immunity timer.

- add some decent items to all three realms. SC is great, but have to make some droppable items rare and uber.

Might have some more later.
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
cabbie's spirit line is gimped...

the aoe snare is a _snare_ it's a 40% snare... with no damage... it's not a root.

if they made that like the earth wizzie one it'd be ok ...
(although there's calls for the same thing to be added to the sorcerer matter line... would be lots of snare/nuke's around in albion if that were the case... interesting)

all the style lines across the realms need looking at and completely re-balanced.

Wizards need some reason to exist (currently they're no-utility damage dealers who gain nothing for it). Making bolts something worth having might go a long way to fix this... still doesn't solve the "trade utility for damage" not actually giving them any damage... :)

Procs on arrows would be cool :) flaming arrows etc.. nothing powerful but fluffy things is good.

1.59 seems to help clerics a bit... they've still got hideous power problems although the sorcerer improvements might help....
Short range is a pain :( but they last a heck of a lot longer than any robed folks in RvR.
 
T

Tyka

Guest
To really balance out the classes i think they should add pulsing bladeturn to 1 of the enchanters baselines, so that they dont get so much hurt when they going to pbaoe a crowd while alot of baddies hitting them.
 
O

old.Sepiritz

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire

  • Archers
  • Earth Theurgists
  • Spirit Cabalists
  • Clerics
I agree those are the ones that need some help in albion atm.
For archers, I just dont know, we certainly dont want them as overpowered as pre-nerf because then they were the kings of the battlefield. Perhaps an envenom-bow RA would sort it?
Five levels, 10 levels of envenom per RA level, starting at 1 point.
That would be kinda cool. Snare anyone?

Earth theurgists, hmm, ultimate gimps. A normal bolt would not be the answer as you dont want to pull a mob as a theurg, u want the pets to get aggro first and after that the mob is in combat and that will block the bolt, right?
How about gtaoe and a speccable siege-bolt. That would put the theurg into the siege class area wouldnt it?

Spirit cabalists are also damn gimped. I think someone suggested to give cabbies a spirit pbaoe in the spirit line, perhaps it was the TL. That would make us kinda like manachanters without a baseline stun. It would give albion two pbaoe classes but thats only just like hibs with mana eldritch and mana chanter right? Especially since wizard is a nuking bolting no-pet caster. Fits right in.. However the mids might feel left out with only one pbaoe. But that would certainly be a good solution in my book.

Clerics are concidered a tough cookie. Not imo, the current changes and the ones up and coming are fine, except one little thing they forgot. Clerics need DEFENSE! At the moment we have a smitespec(!) insta pbaoe mez that has no castable backup contrary to most other classes with insta this or that.
Cleric needs defense, something to help us remove threats.
A castable single baseline root or snare perhaps.
TL suggested to put a snare effect on the insta pbaoe dd spell, however that would still be in smitespec only, but sounds like a cool addition which I would personally prefer.

I once suggested a very radical change though, it was that perhaps give away the baseline stun to wizards, move the dmg add to enhance spec and remove smite completely, replacing it with crush spec and then clerics would truly be the fighting priests of albion. But I guess that would be too radical to the ones that enjoy smiting stuff.

Imo, albion would be fine if they would only give clerics some defense against nasty pets or tanks attracted by the pretty blue lights, especially after the recent changes to the sorc.
 
P

Puppetmistress

Guest
Re: Re: Re: Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

Originally posted by dune


this will not happen, they will not put debuffs into a line so the user can debuff there own damage, the chanter debuff will be moved as the chanter TL is trying to get that done, and thats another reason why the darkness baseline nuke in middy wont go above 43 because of the cold debuff in the rc line.
[sarcastic-modus]
Will happen in DAOC v3.99 since most part of the Mythic-dev team plays Hibernia.
[/sarcastic-modus]
 
V

VodkaFairy

Guest
In Hibernia these classes need fixing:

* Void eldritches. Their only use is GTAoE and that isn't great either.

* Mentalism-specced-Mentalists. Heals on a caster.. Wee :/

* Enchantments-specced-enchanters. A good pet but you sacrafice damage shield, PBAoE, specline DD. All things that negate a good pet.

Less important, but

* Nightshades have get some more magic. They're supposed to be a magical assassin, but they only get 2 near-useless spells.
 
B

belth

Guest
Boost the buffs in cabby spirit spec to be comparable to cleric buffs (do the same with the chanter/sm pet-buffs) or make them castable on friendlies. The latter might be more preferable at least for cabalists in PvE, as they don't offer that much to groups.
The spirit line snare should last longer and be non-breakable, like assassin snare-poison.

Fix all kinds of lifetaps, so they transfer hp to group-members/pets if the caster is at 100% hp.

- prevent stacking of bladeturns in a group. Synched BTs are a joke. This will help archers as well as other classes
The TL's have asked for that and Mythic says "no, it's working as intended" :wall:
 

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