Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

S

StormriderX

Guest
Aussie

afaik the 'casting ability' on shades is < style damage for the same amount of end used.
 
R

Rollie_David

Guest
Originally posted by walkerb
hibs: mana chanters with 50%debuff
mids: rc runies with 50%debuff
both of these debuffs are bugged and debuffs for like 74%

while albs needs wiz/sorc assist to get of their debuff
abit zzz
either remove chanter and runie debuff.
or give debuff to some alb nuker for their own base nukes

u will notice that runies can debuff for a lv43 baseline nuke with a much lower delve than the lv50 baseline chanter nuke, which is one reason why the sm struggles so much as it has to rely on the 43 baseline nuke. This is one reason why mythic wont add a 50 baseline nuke to the darkness line.
 
N

Novamir

Guest
first of all WF, why the hell are you making a useless char? fgs respec to 26 earth and max air at 40. or at least 35 earth rest ice. theurg doesnt help other than for BT in pbaoe groups (and ofc buffs), so if you time grp BT casts inbetween the 10 sec pulses you effectively give 5sec BT which is fine for xping.

Earth Theurgs - definitely, but its extremely easy to fix them! as i said before, make the Earth pets proc a DD sometimes, and give a matter snare DD.

Spirit cabbies - agreed, maybe a theurg style ghetto mez? or another spec line single target dot *shrug*

Enchanter Enchantments - something to make it viable.. a life transfer for eg and maybe an aoe root/snare. (which doesnt start until level 20 in the spec or something- then we'd see less mana chanters perhaps).

Mentalism Mentalist - lifedrain like nick says, would balance it nicely.

Cleric - OMFG NO WAY!!! how the hell can you moan about clerics, especially after the cast time has been reduced. a cleric has everything a druid has and lots more (i mean a heal/buffs spec here). if you choose smite you will have far more offensive capability than a nature druid. BoF is a kickass RA, on par with GP imo

Archers - nah they fine =) can't really solo any more, but it's what mythic wanted.

Champs- fix the end drain on spells, since they did it for minstrels. and aussie.. NO WAY is a champ better than a skald.
 
N

Novamir

Guest
oh and i think baod should be fixed .. it's too good
 
A

Aussie-

Guest
Response (CS) 02/03/2003 02:24 PM
Hello,

We are aware of this bug and are currently trying to solve it.

(edit: i bet they'll just wait till .59 or .6 where mythic fixed it)
 
H

<Harle>

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
what do people now think SERIOUSLY (no minor / bitter replies plz) needs doing in terms of class balancing for their own realm?

WF asked for only commenting on your own realm, as most peeps have no clue about the other realms classes anyway (lo Aussie), so stick to it ;)

Oh, and what i forgot in my original post: Make class-unique RAs worth it, especially those useless ones on fighter-classes.
 
G

Gahldir

Guest
Originally posted by old.Filip


ohhhh dang i forgot that 25 sec PB mezz shout is very very good..

just as good as the druid nature line.. with the range 1500 area 350 dur 56 sec AE ROOT ..... ya ya .....

Atm Smite spec is not an option.

nor is nature. it's only a lill better specline then smite. but if you if you would ask Aussie you should be really happy that smite is crap since there is no need to specc in it.
 
W

walkerb

Guest
Originally posted by dune


u will notice that runies can debuff for a lv43 baseline nuke with a much lower delve than the lv50 baseline chanter nuke, which is one reason why the sm struggles so much as it has to rely on the 43 baseline nuke. This is one reason why mythic wont add a 50 baseline nuke to the darkness line.

it will still cap(450+?) and do more dmg than wiz spec lvl47nukes
and u got a faster casting aedd+gtae+just as good bolts+NS+speed+pbt hi!
 
O

old.Filip

Guest
When have you last been smited ?

and this
it's only a lill better specline then smite
(about root

is plain wrong ..

Nature is a much better spec line atm than smite..

if you cant see it then .. well
 
E

eben

Guest
Originally posted by Danyan
Archers need something, according to testing they have an average 20% hit rate, that's pretty poor.

hib:
Hib casters need their class specific lines fixing.
CD needs styles fixing.
Bards could do with pbae insta snare/root instead of their AE insta mez.
Change mentalist dots, we are the only class with stacking dots in different lines. Originally this meant we were the only class with stacking dots, however cabbies/sorcs/shaman got stacking dots, meaning we're now left with inferior dots (also cabbie/sorc dots hit slightly harder as well as being stackable, presumably because they didn't stack).

Alb:
Spirit line for cabbies
Earth theurgs
DW needs styles fixing.
Mercs dirty tricks sucks compaired to TW/ratmode.

Shammie dots dont stack.
 
E

eben

Guest
Re: Re: Re: Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

Originally posted by shilak


Most of what you said I agree with, but not the above 2. Shammies dont need 1.5 spec points, with 1.0 spec points they can take both aug and cave to good levels which now get them a spot in most groups. Disease halves the effect of all healing spells, including insta-heals, but not IP as far as I am aware. Mend spec could use a little loving on shamans as the friggs arent that useful in RvR due to the 14s combat pulse on them.

In SI there is an epic zone which drops items which include procs and stats which arent possible with SC/Alchemy, I believe the armour drops also use the same gfx as the epic armours for each class.

disease doessn't half instas afaik
 
S

StormriderX

Guest
Originally posted by old.Filip
When have you last been smited ?

and this
(about root

is plain wrong ..

Nature is a much better spec line atm than smite..

if you cant see it then .. well

It is better at the moment like you say I won't disagree on that, however when cleric loving comes in, it becomes comparable if not more in the clerics favour.
 
H

hotrat

Guest
One thing I'd like to see though is that a crit-shot goes through BT like PA
That would be too powerful, reminds me of the days fatbelly used to penetrate bt cus he was 50 and i was level 45 or something. Absolutely no chance to counter attack.
you are hit for 500 damage, the arrow penetrated bt
waiting for auto target
you are hit for 300 damage
auto target arrives, begin quickcasting counter spell
you are hit for 300 damage.

Even now a sniper usually pops bubble and gets at least 2 shots in before i can quickcast a spell, which is fine, remember if the quickcast is resisted its run or//and die for the caster, not forgetting it could be purged as well.

The thing with snipers is it can be hard to tell your getting shot, its not like when your getting nuked, especially the first shot to pop bubble. Its also more difficult to spot a sniper shooting in a large fight, compared to a caster waving his arms about.
However snyched pbt should be removed, and give snipers safe fall in their stealth line.

Lots of other good points, especially earth theurg line and pet buff lines for the pet classes.
 
O

old.Nol

Guest
I am sure the thread starter said something about own realms.
 
R

Rollie_David

Guest
Originally posted by walkerb


it will still cap(450+?) and do more dmg than wiz spec lvl47nukes
and u got a faster casting aedd+gtae+just as good bolts+NS+speed+pbt hi!

thats because we only have 1 main nuker, where is our mage with aoe dot which can get extra damage from piety buffs, where is our yellow con charming mage which can nuke/mezz from bolt range/give crack to anyone?? fact is that 1 mage is versitile as its our main nuker and our only nuker as the sm pretty much sux except for pbaoe, and btw if u spec to debuff you dont get pbt and if you did go 47 rc 26 supp, the varience would make it useless to use. Its only the supp + darkk aoedd's that are faster and they are gonna be put back to 4seconds like all others.
 
W

walkerb

Guest
Originally posted by dune


thats because we only have 1 main nuker, where is our mage with aoe dot which can get extra damage from piety buffs, where is our yellow con charming mage which can nuke/mezz from bolt range/give crack to anyone?? fact is that 1 mage is versitile as its our main nuker and our only nuker as the sm pretty much sux except for pbaoe, and btw if u spec to debuff you dont get pbt and if you did go 47 rc 26 supp, the varience would make it useless to use. Its only the supp + darkk aoedd's that are faster and they are gonna be put back to 4seconds like all others.
having 1 good nuker is better than non.

and starting to compare realm is just silly, or we get the where is our ae stun ae mez ae insta mez ae insta stun etc etc :p
 
B

boni_ofdavoid

Guest
Void needs love.

Eldritches are supposed to be the best nukers, void is the eldritch only spec line, we should have one of the best DD's or bolts should be fixed so they work when grouped, or cast times brought into line with other specs, or a way to debuff cold.
Hibernias going to have a hard time of keep attack / defence with no one speccing the only line with GTAOE in...

Enchantment / mentalism spec lines should be improved.

Would like to see some stuff to make it easier for Rangers and shades to get pve groups.

CD styles need love.
 
R

Rollie_David

Guest
Originally posted by walkerb

having 1 good nuker is better than non.

and starting to compare realm is just silly, or we get the where is our ae stun ae mez ae insta mez ae insta stun etc etc :p

u have a good nuker everyone suffers from resists except the mana chanter and they will be brought into line eventually.

as for the aoe insta mezz trade for bof/sos?? didnt think so :p
 
B

belth

Guest
Critical Shit^H^H^Htrike line needs love. Anytime styles from 2-handers doing same damage or more than the defining styles in CS... Pfft.
 
K

kirennia

Guest
Albion:

Pole Armsman:They are supposed to do better damage then S+S armsmen overall but be unable to defend casters etc. Raw damage that with the effect of prominent pbt in other realms, do in fact much less then a S+S armsman

S+S Armsman:Fine pretty much, they are damn good for both RvR and PvE especially
Paladin:With the new End Chant in, paladins have become extremely viable as a good support and protect class, well done mythic :D

Mercenary:A class which is supposed to outdamage the other tank classes if left alone but be more vulnerable to magical attacks (hence chain armor and 2 weapons). They eat through pbt also which is great thing to do in a group...again, out and out raw power. They have kinda got it right but their CDW needs a fix...

Infiltrators:Essentially the same class as a mercenary except with worse chain and stealth as well. When IP is taken away from em, sorted. They can kill casters, climb walls, and do generally great damage against people if they are first to attack. As I say, when IP is out, thumbs up to a sorted class.

Scouts: Sheesh, where can you start. This class in PvE cannot solo very well and rarely gets groups so to level up in the first place is either near impossible or you need a very nice guild. Their chance to hit rate of 20% in RvR...come on, thats ridiculous. Crit shot should blatently always go through pbt, thas a kinda fix.....my suggestioon here is 10/15% damage add or a kind of buff to add this, crit shot to pierce pbt and a slightly increased shot speed.

Minstrel:1.60 is gonna make em 'class of the month' and probably a very overpowered class. The things that are being added are going to draw them away from groups which isn't great. My suggestioon would be to make the chants other then speed, health regen and power regen work for others in the group ONLY...i.e. the minstrel himself wont benefit from them but the group in itself would making them viable for groups even more. I dunno, maybe it's a ludicrous suggestion. More comments on this idea needed. Albs having 2 classes who can climb walls and hibs/mids only 1, well thats not really something to complain about as mids/hibs are much better close quarter fighters. Mid tanks r better close up and hib casters r very good close up. A 2nd clkimb waller for Alb may make our taking keeps a bit easier as at the moment it's extremely difficult even with just three enchanters as defenders.

Wizards:Either give them a castable stun, debuffs for other lines (i.e.cold gets matter/fire debuff, fire gets cold/matter debuff, earth gets cold/fire debuff) or give them a 10% debuff only but with an added minor, 35% maybe snare.

Earth Theurg: Something, just anything to not make them an afk pile of dog turd. Ok so they get 6second pbt but really they need something other then just that. A suggestion would be to make their DD's more effective and their pbt eat up MUCH less mana.

Other Theurgs:An example of a relatively rounded class in need of very little or no immediate attention, especially with the 1.60 things coming in

Sorcerer: An excellent well rounded class

Cabalist: Very fun to play and a sorted class. The nearsight is a git as are their DoT's although their unique RA plain sux. An inflatted simmy (which lets face it, simmy is fire and forget in RvR generally in groups) which does very little extra damage. It's like giving a wizard a graphic effect on one of their bolts for 14 (?!) Realm points. Sort that they the class is sound.

Friar:My god are they good in melee which is as they are meant to be. A superb class that can outmelee most. Only problem with them is that against spells, they drop very quickly but in my opinion that is a fair trade for good buffs, great damage and a minor healing ability (friars r basically heal after combat healers. Impossible to make a good healing friar pure and simple).

Cleric:A topic which strikes home very hard. The cleric rej line is sorted. The cleric enhance line is sorted. They do not need 1.5x spec points otherwise imagine it....50 in rej and 40+ in enhance, that would b nuts! Don't do it mythic else we know you will nerf em into oblivion. Smite clerics.....right now this is summit needs to be looked at very carefully. Previously clerics were considered overpowered but why. People said their nukes were on par with a wizard well lets have a look.

The damage itself was less although not be much.
The cast time WAS 3 seconds instead of 2 seconds on the wizard (33% less damage over time) The range of 1350 is a lot less so you have to be closer to your target to cast thus they see you better and you die :p
No quickcast speaks for itself
No bolt type of damage

So to say the dmg part of it was on par was silly. Now look over that again and consider this. The damage was given a 20% decrease. The cast time is 4 seconds. Thas enough to ruin it completely but their pbaoe mezz has also been nerfed slightly with the new area of effect kinda thing (those on outsaid get less effect) Not saying thats a bad thing, I think it's good all mezzes got a nerf, RvR has become better.

So the smiteline, what does it hold now. The damage add is granted okay, it isn't a particularly important thing as lets face it, cleric aren't supposed to melee much
The pbaoe mezz which lasts 30 seconds max is granted a good thing.
The smite is 4 seconds cast and beleive it or not, when compared to the BASE smite which all clerics get, THE DAMAGE OVER TIME IS ABOUT 2% MORE!!!!! The only plus point is you can vary them to get that extra smite in after stuns etc and power usage is less.
Pbaoe smite which again is good in melee but thas about all.
That's it...that's all a smite cleric gets. How crappy is that.

In relation to the new 3 second cast time being bought in for the DD, I still don't think it's that great.So the suggestion here I say is to give them a quickcast ability and 10% of their damage back on top of the 3 second cast time. That will in turn fix the character. OR make the pbaoe last for 1 minute.

EDIT: oops just noticed how long the thread is...sorry bout that but hope it helps
 
O

old.Niljindil

Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

Originally posted by eben


disease doessn't half instas afaik

Yes it does
 
O

old.Zarko

Guest
Originally posted by old.Zoyster
Wizards DEFINATELY need a decent Unique RA !!

P.s. why on earth do people insist on writing so much on 1 reply??
I dont read 90% of BW coz of it:cool:

Unique RAs are screwed - only 1/3 of em are worth the hasle or even come into consideration, take tank "unique" RAs they are utterly crap -> you can parry/block/miss with it and it does lower damage, hey who wanna have a 1 hit that cost no end but are crap damage
 
D

Danya

Guest
Originally posted by kirennia
Minstrel:1.60 is gonna make em 'class of the month' and probably a very overpowered class. The things that are being added are going to draw them away from groups which isn't great. My suggestioon would be to make the chants other then speed, health regen and power regen work for others in the group ONLY...i.e. the minstrel himself wont benefit from them but the group in itself would making them viable for groups even more. I dunno, maybe it's a ludicrous suggestion. More comments on this idea needed. Albs having 2 classes who can climb walls and hibs/mids only 1, well thats not really something to complain about as mids/hibs are much better close quarter fighters. Mid tanks r better close up and hib casters r very good close up. A 2nd clkimb waller for Alb may make our taking keeps a bit easier as at the moment it's extremely difficult even with just three enchanters as defenders.
I don't see why 5% more evade (which we aren't getting) and a 6.7 dps melee-only ablative shield is really going to make minstrels overpowered. It's like saying healchant makes paladins overpowered (healchant is actually more effective than minstrel ablative).
Oh yeah wallclimbing... jump into the keep and get farmed, whee!!
 
C

censi

Guest
remove see hidden
massivly up the damage arrows do versus good armour class (atm the moment it would realistically take about 50 arrows to kill a PBT tank with IP and FA)
Lower miss and fumble rate
Give arrow a chance to go through pbt... (small chance 1 in 4 or summin)
Up Archer melee damage a tad.
Give self con buff
That will do for now.....

Forget changing other classes untill archers are fixed...

ooo
 
K

kinadold

Guest
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archers - nah they fine =) can't really solo any more, but it's what mythic wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 cleric and 1 scout looking for group at atk, who is chosen into
a group. I think that pretty much sums it up Novamir, and it pretty much sums your braincapacity up too.
 
O

old.Nol

Guest
Originally posted by kirennia
No quickcast speaks for itself

I could be mistaken, but I don't think any of the primary healers have a quickcast - they got insta heals instead.
 
E

eben

Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pending 1.60E, which classes now SERIOUSLY need attention?

Originally posted by old.Niljindil


Yes it does

News to me - then again I haven't played my shammie for a long time.

Good news then :)
 
C

censi

Guest
Archers - nah they fine =) can't really solo any more, but it's what mythic wanted.

just not true imo nova, I have got a lvl 50 LW hero, and have access to lvl 50 spero lvl 50 BM lvl 50 bard, lvl 50 druid and lvl 50 light eld and soon lvl 50 shade....

Archers and more specifically Rangers are arguably the weakest class in DAOC by a long way.... Its all very well mythic forcing archers to solo (though giving assasins SH is not the way to do it), but arrows and pbt dont mix and theres not to much you can do to get around it... Archer melee suxs too...

Take a look on duskwave at the total RP gained by rangers last week..... :) the class is dead and those stats dont lie... if playing a ranger was viable then peeps would play them.

they need some fixing and fast
 
N

Novamir

Guest
Originally posted by censi

Archer melee suxs too...

no, it doesnt :)

group orientated ranger for eg. ozrique has a spec like, 20 stealth, 39 blade, 31 CD, 40 bow, 36 PF. this gives 2nd to last dmg add, and with bonuses puts their melee on par with BMs ! without mentioning that bow yet!

rangers are moderate ranged (if you factor in BT etc..) and melee damage dealers. this is a compromise that no other classes have, although they aren't excellent at either. i would say that the archer RAs suck though.
 
O

old.Leel

Guest
Ehm, rangers do very well in melee, it was kinda close when I killed Rahvinn with Runolas earlier tonight. Runolas, 50 SZ, would have bitten the dust without proper melee resists. AND archers get to keep their IP while assassins lose theirs. Fixing celtic dual is certainly more than enough for a ranger's melee.

Scout melee needs something though, if you purge their slam, they are dead.
 

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