Patch 1.82 C - Remedy Nerf !?

[Puppet]

While I'd agree that the brittle guard problem for stealthers should be addressed, killing all the brittles and penetrating BT in one hit seems to go from one extreme to another.

It would be more balanced if the PA killed only one brittle and penetrated BT leaving the remaining guards to defend.

Your suggestion is how it is now. And with that, it means PA wont land, CD wont land and the caster is just looking again at easy RP's.

How they fixed it is how it should be. Casters can no longer run around without being immune to PA. and CD and SS...

I wonder how casters would have cried if I was to run with 4 magic guards on my NS, I sprint up to the caster, he nukes, soz my magic guard intercepts the nuke, oh lol it intercepted the mezz/root/stun aswell, and the 2rd and 3rd nuke aswell. This is how casters at the moment negate my nightshade.

And just a big LOL at any Spiritmaster daring to cry.

 

[Crocky]

get hp regen buff

 

[Vonwar]

these new patch notes are looking good so far now all we need is.

Removal of vanish
Some of the RR5 abilities need looking into
Removal of convoker ml9 in a frontier zone
Removal of relics, or thier bonus changed to something a little less unbalancing (RP bonus or something)
and ofc a huge warlock nerf, dunno i thought about making chambering insta cast (out of combat) but with lower damage on the spells.

shame they have started releasing good patches 2 years to late

LOL it is clear to see which realm you play. I dont think the patch is only good. well yes its good if you play rouge or hybrid, but if you play caster it sucks.

Banshee cannot be nerfed enough, Animist cannot be nerfed enough i could say, proving that unlike you i play mid. I do not have a lvl 50 warlock, only a lvl 24 for BG1.

From what i have seen, in Siege warfare, or in roaming around, warlocks does NO difference if we have 5 of them or none. But you can as Amen in the church say, if the hibs come, and the banshee goes down, you have a good chance to kill the rest, if banshee lives we die. Same in large sieges, if animists and banshees live we die, if they die, we win.

When i ask who ppl want to fight, when ingame, they always choose albs, cause mid/alb are more in balance, only thing wrong here are hibs, who are generally way too overpowered.

Vonwar

 

[kirennia]

From what i have seen, in Siege warfare, or in roaming around, warlocks does NO difference if we have 5 of them or none.

Either you have never been to a keep fight or you're talking complete bullshit. 5warlocks when grouped together can quite easily drop a group of 20 people in a keep if they aren't complete morons.

And you're saying it's obvious which realm raven plays? Midgard have it the easiest out of all three realms. Hib and alb in the open field seem relatively balanced but how you can even begin to say midgard are on worse terms then hibs is an absolute joke.

 

[Vilje]

I would like to start off with saying that if casters would have been able to kill assasins with no problem when the game was originally designed it would have been the most stupid representation of a so called foodchain.

Yes, but the point was not if it was a 'stupid representation of the foodchain', but if you would not rather look for a better solution for everyone - Rather than to go back to what you call the 'original plan'.

When talking of the 'foodchain', you've got to (imo) put it into context with how the game used to be played, or the 'original plan'. I think of it as balance between the realms in the bigger picture, so that if you took an number of mids and an equivalent number of hibs (or albs) with equal experience in the game and made them fight - It would be a damn even fight.

If this was still the way the game was being played, I would find it ok that casters could consider themselves dead after a PA. But when taking into consideration the fact that the game almost never is played like **'originally planned', why should we keep it evolving in that direction? Because according to the way we play it, it makes no sense. Neither does casters simply insta-killing stealthers, or heavy tanks having no chance vs casters. Even though it does to some extent work like **'originally planned'.

**'Originally planned' (In a big fight): Assasins goes casters, archers goes for various targets, casters goes for tanks, hybrids and tanks goes for healers. Or something similar to that.

You make it seem like assassins will now once again be able to kill casters that are grouped... how exactly ?

Well, out of the things you mentioned many of them depends on the situation; Like if the group is standing still and the bg'er happens to be close to the caster the assasin chose as his target at the time/BG'ing that very caster at the time.

Or if the caster is a sm, in which the intercepting pet could intercept the PA.

Or if the caster has uber-fast reactions and can click the ml 9 pet and make it kill the assasin before he can take the caster down ( which happens damned fast ).

Or if DI is up and running at the moment.

Or if you have a damn uberobservant healer/cleric/druid which has some supernatural reaction+ spreadheal-skills

And the hp and af has not risen that much I think? Atleast not enough to be a deciding factor?

And for the resist buffs and the pd RA, I can see how that could affect it from happening. But I think commonly you would be looking at a pretty high rr caster, if he could afford pd4-5 in addition to all the other things needed.

I definitely see you point about DI though, and I can see it really making a difference together with PD4-5 and resist buffs. My point with the whole assasins-killing-casters-in-grp-thing was that I don't think we should return to that time, which you made me feel like you wanted when you talked about pre-toa and such.

I just can't agree on that casters should be dead no matter what when PA lands. Atleast give us a chance damnit

If an assassin lands PA+CD a casters should have no chance to win whatsoever imo. That is the life of a caster, got lots of toys or do massive damage but are very fragile. If a caster survives most of the times or the assassin sees the PA+CD option as too much risk of dying, then whats the point with even trying? It would make the whole idea about the assassins obsolete.

Some of it ment like a reply to you as well Rure =)

 

[Sauruman]

I hope they tweak archers too, or it'll be such an unfair change for stealth warfare. Fear d3f1, now he's gonna PA for 2k dmg!

 

[atos]

yeah right, because reavers nukes are so much better then a thanes?

No but their melee and offence is still far superiour. When thanes get a self piety buff or/and increased delves on spells I will consider the thane balanced.

Any ranged interupt can neglect most of our spell damage. And in DR that means any class in the game.



Oh and what is this bullshit I hear about banshees tauntspam not being over the top? Thats like trying to defend prenerf savages with an insta taunt shout.

I admit that taunt insta wasn't spammable. But banshee taunt is basicly an insta without a recast timer with the high dex of a caster.

5-10sec recast on it is mucho needed. You have CAoE which is far more powerful than PBAoE and a spec delve nuke in baseline. You don't need a stun cause you kill stuff before they even get near.

Lets defend prenerf warlock delves too shall we? Even though I still think they should have nerfed them in another way.

 

[Theseus]

I just can't agree on that casters should be dead no matter what when PA lands. Atleast give us a chance damnit

So you are honestly saying that this new change is unjustified?

I think it is very acceptable for both sides.

If i as an assassin fuck up, the caster can kill me easily, wich is a pretty fair deal imo. If i as an assassin get the PA off i have a decent chance to win the fight.

Still landing CD stun is not guaranteed.

Casters can purge the stun, moc lifetap, moc baseline stun, however you like it... enough stuff to fight back.

Both classes will have a situation where they have more advantage over the other. IMO this is the perfect balance. They did a remarkable job to keep it risky for an assassin to attack, but reward them if they succeed.

You seem to care very little about the assassin and seem to refuse to be killed in a way that the assassinclass is designed for in the first place.

 

[Vilje]

So you are honestly saying that this new change is unjustified?

I think it is very acceptable for both sides.

If i as an assassin fuck up, the caster can kill me easily, wich is a pretty fair deal imo. If i as an assassin get the PA off i have a decent chance to win the fight.

What I'm saying is ( as I think I said in my previous posts ):

I think a change is needed.

I don't think that the 'balance' is right at the moment.

I don't think that this change is the best way to do it ( by the looks of it ).

I think it should be near impossible to win vs an assasin if he gets PA in, but I dont think PA should mean death no matter what for a caster. I don't know if that is the way it is going to be, but if it is going to be like that I don't agree with it.

If someone 'fucks up' in a fight, the other part is most likely to win - That counts for all fights. I don't think that casters should have to depend on an assasin to 'fuck up' in order to have a chance to win versus them. When saying this I refer to what I wrote above.

I think that by the looks of these assasin changes, assasins will have a lot more than 'just a fair chance to win' versus casters. Like I said, I'm all for 90% chance to die if an assasin gets PA in, but I'm not for 100% chance of death. I just want a hint of chance to defend myself if an assasin gets PA in -And if I get that, I'm as happy with the changes as you are.

Still landing CD stun is not guaranteed.

Casters can purge the stun, moc lifetap, moc baseline stun, however you like it... enough stuff to fight back.

Both classes will have a situation where they have more advantage over the other. IMO this is the perfect balance. They did a remarkable job to keep it risky for an assassin to attack, but reward them if they succeed..

From my experience; If an assasin gets PA+CD in = dead. Could be I'm just damned unlucky though.

Some pretty uber reaction is needed in order to purge the stun + moc <insert defence here> after cd and live to tell the tale. I would say it is pretty close to impossible. You also then have assume that the caster is high realm rank.

I can't but agree with that each class will have advantages in different situations. And that is a sort of balance, like you say. However, the situations where a caster catches an assasin out of stealth will most likely be 'add' ( if that was what you were thinking about ). The caster will also be voulnerable (sp?) to adds like any other classes, and I don't think that is representative of how a fair fight between the two classes will be like. So, on equal terms (assasin in stealth), the assasin will have an advantage - Which I think is totally fair. All I'm asking for is a hint of a chance to fight back, which I don't think is unreasonable. And if casters get that, I'm all for these changes.

You seem to care very little about the assassin and seem to refuse to be killed in a way that the assassinclass is designed for in the first place.

All I can say is sorry if it seems that way. That was not my intention. We are both picturing two different scenarios here. You think that the casters will have a fair chance, which is not how I remember it to have been 'originally'. Which is what you wanted to go back to. I'm saying that it looks like we are not getting a fair chance, but a fair chance is what I'm hoping for.

You're saying that we are going to get a fair chance, and I'm hoping for a fair chance. On the bottom we seem to agree, which is why I can't really see what you mean by that last remark.

 

[Puppet]

Just to get it right, Vilje, you play a Dark Spiritmaster with a pet intercepting around 75% of the attacks and you are worried you got the short end of the stick in assassin vs you encounters?

Okay, just want to get it right.


LOL.

 

[Gethin]

This patch includes a number of very good and needed fixes, i just hope archers get a similar sort of change in the next patch.

And to the casters who are whinging, play an archer or assassin for a bit and see what a total load of bulshite the current set up is.

I have lost count of how many times i have died to casters before i can even move and should i decide to have a pop at a caster you have so many tools in your arsenal i more often that not going to lose.

Imho Pet and lifetap casters are way out of hand and need a fookin huge nerf to both DPS and survivability. This is hopefully only the start of the fixes for you lot.

I do feel bit sorry for the non pet casters and maybe your TL's can use these changes to make a case for improvements.

 

[Theseus]

I have to say Vilje, that i have really enjoyed our discussion. This is the first time i ever had a discussion with someone on FH that keeps it clean and makes his point without referring to unrelevant things only to upset the other party.

I salute you friend.

But as you say, I believe that casters will have a chance if they act quickly.
Ofcourse a certain RR is acquired but isnt that what the game is about?


Only time will tell

 

[Carter]

I sprint up to the caster, he nukes, soz my magic guard intercepts the nuke, oh lol it intercepted the mezz/root/stun aswell, and the 2rd and 3rd nuke aswell.

you mean like ceremonial bracer, charge, Zone of Unmana,Malice charge & other banelord crap do now?

 

[Neffneff]

you mean like ceremonial bracer, charge, Zone of Unmana,Malice charge & other banelord crap do now?

CB is hard to fit into a stealther temp..but fair point.

charge? on a stealther?

zone of unmana on stealther?

banelord on stealther?

wtf does malice charge do for magic/CC protection?

 

[Vilje]

Just to get it right, Vilje, you play a Dark Spiritmaster with a pet intercepting around 75% of the attacks and you are worried you got the short end of the stick in assassin vs you encounters?

Okay, just want to get it right.


LOL.

Now there is a lot of casters-classes that will have it worse than me ( sm pet ), but I guess we will see a lot more of this:

I wrote this in my first post in this thread. Like I said, sms wont be the ones who get it the worst. I think mostly of other casters, who does not have this luxury(sp?)

And by the way, I don't play a dark sm, I play a supp sm accually =) As a supp sm, you get the short stick in most encounters =p Atleast it feels like it

If the sm-pets intercept accually is 75% is a different discussion =)

I have to say Vilje, that i have really enjoyed our discussion. This is the first time i ever had a discussion with someone on FH that keeps it clean and makes his point without referring to unrelevant things only to upset the other party.

I salute you friend.

But as you say, I believe that casters will have a chance if they act quickly.
Ofcourse a certain RR is acquired but isnt that what the game is about?


Only time will tell

Was a nice, clean discussion indeed, Theseus =) I enjoyed it as well. May we have more of such discussions to come!

I salute you back, Theseus =)

"Ofcourse a certain RR is acquired but isnt that what the game is about?"

Indeed =)

 

[Carter]

all this pathetic crying about brittles it makes me laugh.
lets say a caster has 3 brittles up and self bt.
dual wielders swing time = 1,5sec? so in 3 seconds the complete defence of a caster is gone if both hands hit.

do you know what a casters log says when they get interrupted?

"You must wait 3 seconds before you can cast your next spell" . that's 4 seconds atleast before the caster is gonna land another nuke on you.


wow stealther DO have it HARD and brittles are SO overpowered OMG
ever heard of lvl 10 charge of golden spear? ever learned to play your class? roll a bonedancer or a warlock if a class that requires skill is too much for you.

 

[Theseus]

all this pathetic crying about brittles it makes me laugh.
lets say a caster has 3 brittles up and self bt.
dual wielders swing time = 1,5sec? so in 3 seconds the complete defence of a caster is gone if both hands hit.

do you know what a casters log says when they get interrupted?

"You must wait 3 seconds before you can cast your next spell" . that's 4 seconds atleast before the caster is gonna land another nuke on you.


wow stealther DO have it HARD and brittles are SO overpowered OMG
ever heard of lvl 10 charge of golden spear? ever learned to play your class? roll a bonedancer or a warlock if a class that requires skill is too much for you.

lol

 

[censi]

all this pathetic crying about brittles it makes me laugh.
lets say a caster has 3 brittles up and self bt.
dual wielders swing time = 1,5sec? so in 3 seconds the complete defence of a caster is gone if both hands hit.

do you know what a casters log says when they get interrupted?

"You must wait 3 seconds before you can cast your next spell" . that's 4 seconds atleast before the caster is gonna land another nuke on you.


wow stealther DO have it HARD and brittles are SO overpowered OMG
ever heard of lvl 10 charge of golden spear? ever learned to play your class? roll a bonedancer or a warlock if a class that requires skill is too much for you.

Its brittle combined with all the other shit a caster can throw at that made them OP....

It you cant insta kill a caster then theres a good chance you toast as an assasin. Caster needs 4-5 seconds of nuking to drop an assasin.

Take therg for example. U dont insta kill him you will get QC rooted, and then pet spammed, if he gets one pet off your fucked. Or u get rr5 stunned and pet spammed = dead....

Cabby u dont insta kill them you get ml9 stunning pet on you if dont insta drop cabby yours dead. or maybe moc+lt

Chanter... If he gets QC stun your dead, if he gets out of distance u get ml9 chomp pet on you dead.... Insta kill or die...

WL... no comment

BD - dido

SM - doesnt need to be discussed....

Basically you could go through all the casters and its the same storey if you dont take them down fast your dead.... brittles were ust too much crap man... Sure you can jav them!!! but GS is not a favourable arti... and its not worth packing it just as a brittle poper, also very bad idea to open with a jav on a pet class... hence if a mage has like more than 1 brittle up assaisn usually just ignore them....

Ofc im talking out my ass and caster V assasin is fine as it is.... or you might be wrong??

(yes purge is a counter arguement to some of the above)

 

[Carter]

so you're saying:

hib caster stun is OP.
pet with ML9 is OP.
instanuke class is OP.
SM pet is OP.

so wtf were you whining all these pages about brittles?
brittle nerf was never needed.

 

[Silverblast]

so you're saying:

hib caster stun is OP.
pet with ML9 is OP.
instanuke class is OP.
SM pet is OP.

so wtf were you whining all these pages about brittles?
brittle nerf was never needed.

Clueless, hes saying all those things COMBINED with brittles is OP, I think stealthers deserve this one.

 

[Carter]

Clueless, hes saying all those things COMBINED with brittles is OP, I think stealthers deserve this one.

recast brittle guard : 300 sec. Minimum 15mins for 3 brittles if casted at the moment the ability becomes available. destroy time max 3 seconds.

anything else you wanna add noob?

 

[polza]

Its brittle combined with all the other shit a caster can throw at that made them OP....

It you cant insta kill a caster then theres a good chance you toast as an assasin. Caster needs 4-5 seconds of nuking to drop an assasin.

Take therg for example. U dont insta kill him you will get QC rooted, and then pet spammed, if he gets one pet off your fucked. Or u get rr5 stunned and pet spammed = dead....

Cabby u dont insta kill them you get ml9 stunning pet on you if dont insta drop cabby yours dead. or maybe moc+lt

Chanter... If he gets QC stun your dead, if he gets out of distance u get ml9 chomp pet on you dead.... Insta kill or die...

WL... no comment

BD - dido

SM - doesnt need to be discussed....

Basically you could go through all the casters and its the same storey if you dont take them down fast your dead.... brittles were ust too much crap man... Sure you can jav them!!! but GS is not a favourable arti... and its not worth packing it just as a brittle poper, also very bad idea to open with a jav on a pet class... hence if a mage has like more than 1 brittle up assaisn usually just ignore them....

Ofc im talking out my ass and caster V assasin is fine as it is.... or you might be wrong??

(yes purge is a counter arguement to some of the above)

ml9 bigger problem than brittles, ur sayin it like casters ALWAYS have 4 brittles, then u also get illu sayin if he uses all his timers he has 50/50 chance of takin caster down. how long has he had to wait to have all timers up? to have 4 brittles caster has had to wait 20 mins, so surely both have had to wait for timers.
QC CC and ofc u dnt run through on that at all
yes 4 brittle guards and a pet class with ml9 up is completly retarded but for some mages, its there only form of defence agaisnt casters. yes u will say my opinion is biased cause i play a caster but tbh the idear that assain should kill caster every time because of the natural food chain is stupid. assasins should have a slight edge over a caster due to the nature of the class. ohw and moc3 is free RA to every caster? no wait costs 30rsp's not every caster has moc3 only high RR ones or lters.
Nerf the ability for the caster that make THEM and only that class oped and not the ability which adds to there class even more and the only form of defence for others

imo cap brittles at 2 or mby even 1, and remove ml9 from game, much better than allowin PA just to go throu brittles and whipe them at same time.

 

[illu]

so you're saying:

hib caster stun is OP.
pet with ML9 is OP.
instanuke class is OP.
SM pet is OP.

so wtf were you whining all these pages about brittles?
brittle nerf was never needed.

Yes - all that is OP, but on top of that, you can't even get to start hitting the caster before you are even past the 4 little brittles. Time is of the essence when attacking a caster. ANY error on the assassins behalf, and you are eating grass. Ok the caster still needs to do a little bit of work, but the general rule is that if you do get rid of the brittles (poisonspike or GS charge) and still miss your most powerful opener PA or Crit shot or whatever, the caster destroys you.

Casters under RR5 seem to be relatively ok to deal with (even with brittles - well sometimes), but the ones that are over RR5 tend to have so many tricks up their sleeve, some sort of quick root/stun/mezz - they just use anything to get some sort of range to nuke nuke nuke. AND if you somehow do get on top of them, they will MoC+Lifetap, so you have to pray you poison them a bit sharpish or that you have vanish up (and that you don't get popped) so that 30 seconds later you can have another go (but usually this time round purge is down - so it can be a bit suicidal).

Basically I would have changed it so that you can only have 2 brittles, and the recast timer is a lot longer. Maybe they have gone a bit too far the other way, but on the other hand, maybe solo casters baiting assassins has been going on for far too long, so everyone will have to learn and adapt once more.

Oli - Illu

 

[polza]

lol 5 mins after my post i look at 1.82D patch notes 2 c they have caped brittle guards at 1

 

[Raven]

you mean like ceremonial bracer, charge, Zone of Unmana,Malice charge & other banelord crap do now?

you rally should start researching things before talking crap. stealthers do not get banelord, stealthers do not get charge.


god i love casters whining about getting fixed, going to love making them log even more come 1.81/1.82