Parallel Universe

[Trem]

I watched an amazing program last night on BBC 4. It was about the lead singer of The Eels' father and his theory of parallel universe's. Truly mind boggling and I struggled to get my head around it.

There was an experiment where they fired photons at 2 gaps so in theory there will be 2 lots of marks on the other side of the gaps but there were 2 on the other side of the gaps and a third in the middle. This is because when the photons hit the barrier they split then rejoined on the other side, so in theory every time we do something there is an action going on somewhere else.

I aren't explaining this very well at all and I guess you need to have seen the program but if anyone can explain this theory in spanner(Trem) terms I would be grateful.

Hugh Everett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[taB]

I was heading for sleep but after watching a few minutes of this, I grabbed a whisky and sat through till the end - VERY interesting program.

I can get my head around the part where every action creates a new universe / split-off, as they said in the show many sci-fi progs have had similar story lines. What I can't understand is how is these protons are splitting into separate places while still remaing the same thing - as per the experiment. Why they don't generate their own instance in another universe instead of remaining in ours?

The younger lecturer who was following on his work said that the mathematical proofs were pretty solid on this - would love to have checked them out when I still had a chance of potentially understanding them. No chance now unfortunately.

If this show is on the beeb's iplayer I would thoroughly recommend it to all.

 

[rynnor]

Its an interesting interpretation of the results of an experiment with light but due to the lack of tools that can show us whats going on at the quantum level it may never be proved/disproved.

Quantum physics has refined techniques that utilise the quantum theories from the 30's but really we are no further along the road to understanding whats really happening at the quantum level.

No-one knows whats actually going on inside an electron for example - we only know things that can be measured from outside like charge.

 

[Frizz]

A committed atheist, he had asked to be thrown out with the trash after his death. Some time after his cremation, his wife complied.

Haha, he's a nutter.

 

[rynnor]

Haha, he's a nutter.

Why? I have considered the same thing - a corpse is just a shell - the person that lived in it has moved on.

 

[TdC]

explained quite a bit in Hawking's Brief History of Time iirc. I'll check tonight.

 

[rynnor]

explained quite a bit in Hawking's Brief History of Time iirc. I'll check tonight.

In Search of Schrodingers Cat is an excellent intro to Quantum Physics.

 

[Chilly]

There are other interpretations of quantum theory. It all seems to focus on wave/particle duality. An electron behaves as both a wave and a particle but we have no idea what it actually*is*. As has been said, we are skimming the surface.

 

[Guest]

will have to wait till i get in to watch it, gay bbc iplayer thinks i am outside of the UK

 

[Trem]

In Search of Schrodingers Cat is an excellent intro to Quantum Physics.

That was a mad experiment, is that the one with a hammer, some radiation, a cat and a ghyger (sp) counter?

I did a little study on electrons when I was doing my sparky exams, was the most interesting bit of the whole course, that and the different levels of death you get with different voltages

 

[nath]

BBC - BBC iPlayer - Programme Information - Parallel Worlds, Parallel Lives

In case anyone has trouble finding it.

 

[Trem]

Nice one Nath, would be great if as many people as possible were to watch it.

A little write up on what its about -

At age 19, Mark Everett - better known as E, the frontman of geek-rock outfit Eels - found his scientist father Hugh Everett dead from a heart attack. Everett senior was the underacknowledged quantum physicist who first developed the theory of parallel universes. Now, 25 years after his father's death, Mark wants to get to know this emotionally absent savant who rarely spoke. He does this by interviewing his dad's friends and colleagues. It's a cathartic quest punctured with moments of raw sadness and deadpan witticisms from the cigar-smoking singer. But this isn't just a compelling family saga. It's a one-layman mission of scientific discovery. Everett, a self-confessed maths no-hoper, is desperate to understand quantum physics - or at least the parts formulated by his father, and manages to scrape together a brilliantly de-boffined explanation of parallel-universe theory. Everett is an intriguing fusion of low-key rock-spod and charismatic pop star. Crucially, he lacks the stadium-sized ego that might have stopped him gelling with his interviewees.

 

[Malecheon]

that and the different levels of death you get with different voltages

I was always told it was current/amps that kill you, not volts, is that a load of crap then ?

 

[DaGaffer]

That was a mad experiment, is that the one with a hammer, some radiation, a cat and a ghyger (sp) counter?

I did a little study on electrons when I was doing my sparky exams, was the most interesting bit of the whole course, that and the different levels of death you get with different voltages

Well, it was never an actual experiment; Shroedinger's Cat is a thought experiment. He actually proposed it to mock some of the weird stuff that comes out of Quantum mechanics but the maths kind of got away from him!

 

[Trem]

I was always told it was current/amps that kill you, not volts, is that a load of crap then ?

Oooh I don't remember now to be quite honest.

Will have to look for my notes, one flows through and one flows around. Hmmm yes its current that kills because DC is worse than AC because you can't let go of DC at least with AC it pulses so you get a chance to release. Will have to look at my books though.

 

[rynnor]

Oooh I don't remember now to be quite honest.

Will have to look for my notes, one flows through and one flows around. Hmmm yes its current that kills because DC is worse than AC because you can't let go of DC at least with AC it pulses so you get a chance to release. Will have to look at my books though.

A high current can burn out your nervous system but you generally die from the effect on the muscles - DC is worse than AC because DC causes muscles to contract and stay there - this can prevent the heart beating so you die by asphixiation.

AC causes your muscles to rapidly contract and relax - ie muscle spasm - get hit by enough AC tho and either A your nervous system burns out or B your heart rythm gets screwed.

You also get a lot of internal burns from high voltage thus that unpleasant pork cooking smell at electric chair days

 

[Chilly]

That was a mad experiment, is that the one with a hammer, some radiation, a cat and a ghyger (sp) counter?

I did a little study on electrons when I was doing my sparky exams, was the most interesting bit of the whole course, that and the different levels of death you get with different voltages

It's a thought experiment. It has no physical reality. The cat is either dead or alive, its not some wishy washy quantum waveform.

 

[rynnor]

It's a thought experiment. It has no physical reality. The cat is either dead or alive, its not some wishy washy quantum waveform.

Aye - it was never performed - Schrodinger created it to demonstrate the absurdity of the 'observer collapses waveform' theories.

 

[Chilly]

and in any case, the cat is a perfectly suitable observer.

 

[Tom]

I was always told it was current/amps that kill you, not volts, is that a load of crap then ?

Current flow is the killer. Voltage and resistance are the pre determinate factors in determining the level of current flow.

You can have 1000V and no current flow, because resistance is too high (eg fresh air). Or you can have 1000V and 1000a because the resistance is only 1 ohm (nice big fat copper cable)

V=IR (volts = current * resistance)

Basically, if you're going to get shocked, do it when you're nice and dry. Do it after you've had a bath and your skin will have lower resistance, which means more current will be flowing through your body.

 

[Opt1]

There are other interpretations of quantum theory. It all seems to focus on wave/particle duality. An electron behaves as both a wave and a particle but we have no idea what it actually*is*. As has been said, we are skimming the surface.

We don't have the means nor know enough to understand what's going on in the quantum world at the mo.. so Quantum theory helps us statistically guesstimate what's going to happen.. methinks ..

..I don't like Quantum Theory

I don't care if the theory works for predicting many things, like Einstein said: "God doesn't play dice"

Admittedly, he later stopped being against Quantum and worked on it.. =]

I think it works for now, but there's certainly a better way, but it needs us to understand wtfs going on first

There's another experiment - An electron is fired, the path branches and it can only take one of two possible paths.. but it takes both
Is somewhere in A Universe in A Nutshell. I've probably remembered it wrong :x

 

[TdC]

There's another experiment - An electron is fired, the path branches and it can only take one of two possible paths.. but it takes both

yeah iirc it takes all possible paths, or generates particles which take the paths or something. I read the books mostly while hungover, and it shows when I try to remember

 

[Chilly]

it doesnt generate particles. The point is that particle is an abstraction, we dont know how these things behave so we give them particle or wave lavels and it works most of the time.

 

[rynnor]

it doesnt generate particles. The point is that particle is an abstraction, we dont know how these things behave so we give them particle or wave lavels and it works most of the time.

Yep - it seems odd when you think how little we know about the quantum level that makes up everything in our universe.

I think the paralell worlds theory is highly imaginitive but I cant personally believe it because it seems to go completely against Occams razor.

To have to create another universe every time theres some quantum level decision seems a bit laboured to say the least!

Its much like the old philosophers arguement that everyone and everything are just figments of his imagination.

Perhaps the quantumn level is just too weird for us to understand?

 

[DaGaffer]

Yep - it seems odd when you think how little we know about the quantum level that makes up everything in our universe.

I think the paralell worlds theory is highly imaginitive but I cant personally believe it because it seems to go completely against Occams razor.

To have to create another universe every time theres some quantum level decision seems a bit laboured to say the least!

Its much like the old philosophers arguement that everyone and everything are just figments of his imagination.

Perhaps the quantumn level is just too weird for us to understand?

I'm not sure Occam's Razor is the appropriate..."philosophical approach" here. The many worlds theory is just as simple (or complicated, depending how you look at it) as any other theory. If the many worlds theory isn't valid, there's still a ton of weird shit in any of the alternatives (for instance the many worlds theory can accomodate time travel, whereas the "one universe" theory allows for time travel in special relativity, but by definition if time travel was possible we should be able to see evidence of it).

 

[TdC]

Perhaps the quantumn level is just too weird for us to understand?

entirely possible. also the inability of current thinkers to come up with a unified theory, due partially to things working most of the time and not all of the time is a bit naff; "we can explain bits of it but not all of it"....uh-huh.

working at that level must drive the poor guys batty, I mean, there is a real chance that what you're working today with won't be true tomorrow

 

[TdC]

I'm not sure Occam's Razor is the appropriate..."philosophical approach" here. The many worlds theory is just as simple (or complicated, depending how you look at it) as any other theory. If the many worlds theory isn't valid, there's still a ton of weird shit in any of the alternatives (for instance the many worlds theory can accomodate time travel, whereas the "one universe" theory allows for time travel in special relativity, but by definition if time travel was possible we should be able to see evidence of it).

depending what direction your local time's going in though. as I understand it it's not yet a given if we'll ever be able to cross a horizon into a state where time's going the other way without becoming spaghetti :/

 

[rynnor]

but by definition if time travel was possible we should be able to see evidence of it).

I have never been impressed by this arguement - perhaps we are at the leading edge of time - the future doesnt exist yet.

What is time? If time is just another dimension it could well be traversible - we can already move around the 3 dimensional world - to two dimensional beings this would be amazing.

Perhaps causality isnt really a rule - maybe we could go back and fiddle with the past and still have the same present?

Humans are stuck with a linear interpretation of time which may well be wrong.

On paralell universes I still think Occams razor applies - to need the creation of infinite paralell universes just to support the theory would seem to me the ultimate breach.

 

[bob269]

that and the different levels of death you get with different voltages

so you can be only just dead, pretty much dead, totally dead, any others?

I watched the bbc2 proggy on Tuesday night 11:20pm about the Atom which was pretty interesting.

 

[Raven]

So thats where my lighters go.