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<Wels>
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- #121
couldn't spell hi last name could yaOriginally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
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<Wels>
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- #122
Oh and Genric what in the name of all that is holy are you talking about?
1. Since I have been an officer in LoE I have yet to come across any kind of discussion on /o about "hey lets see if we can get this person leave his guild and join". Tbh I can't even remember us joining people that didn't ask us, there might have been SOME occasion we have asked someone but that would have been because one or more of his friends were in LoE and they wanted him/her in same guild, but as I said I do not even remeber such thing.
2. Yes, we do realize that people asking to join us will have to leave their old guild (nobody is unguilded these days), and if we decide that they might join shall we tell them no sorry stick with you guild that you aren't happy in because some lamer on BW thinks its poaching.
3. People have a free will to do whatever they bloody want.
Go away deGenerated Flamer
1. Since I have been an officer in LoE I have yet to come across any kind of discussion on /o about "hey lets see if we can get this person leave his guild and join". Tbh I can't even remember us joining people that didn't ask us, there might have been SOME occasion we have asked someone but that would have been because one or more of his friends were in LoE and they wanted him/her in same guild, but as I said I do not even remeber such thing.
2. Yes, we do realize that people asking to join us will have to leave their old guild (nobody is unguilded these days), and if we decide that they might join shall we tell them no sorry stick with you guild that you aren't happy in because some lamer on BW thinks its poaching.
3. People have a free will to do whatever they bloody want.
Go away deGenerated Flamer
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Garaen
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- #123
Class picture Gombur
Although it is Lords of England not Lords of england
Although it is Lords of England not Lords of england
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walkerb
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- #124
Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
notice the wall in the background? he is camping the MMG!!
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Coren
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- #125
It's a car dammit, stop drinking. 
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Laird MacGregor
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- #126
DRINK!!!!
Happy Hogmanay ya bams!!!
Happy Hogmanay ya bams!!!
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GReaper
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- #127
Originally posted by old.Gombur Glodson
First we realise he uses AOL, now he wears those shorts?!
I used to respect Hrodelbert.
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Danya
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- #128
Ziera, leave me out of the thread.
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old.Chavez
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- #129
Right, off to bed but gonna write this up quick for our friend Generic poster. Bare with me and my already emerging hangovers...
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You say you have gotten what you wanted in this thread.
The problem is you got nothing. All you have are the personal opinions of 1 former LoE officer not actively playing daoc and 2 others.
Let's examine hrodelberts comment since you clinge on to them with your life..after all it's the only thin thread holding your case up at this point.
He said (which you of course tried to put out of context by only quoting the first part)
Don't you see the problem here ? You slant us for being inconsitent when infact it's pretty apparant that me and hrod are saying the exact same thing. Furthermore, try building an argument of your own instead of merely attacking those reasoning with you. It's like a judge convicting a person merely because he couldnt account for his whereabouts during some other complete strangers criminal act.
The burden of proof is still on the accuser and so far we've seen squat comming from you. You may think even 1 incident of poaching a player gives you the right to tarnish a guild...but you are wrong.
Whether you recruit a guy on his or your own initiative makes no difference. It's still :
a) he's decision
b) 1 of the guilds involved in the deal is still going to be left without a player any way you turn it.
But isnt that "candy" exactly what this game is about ? The rvr, the hunts, the fun, the loot ?
Don't patronize peoples intellect. A player is perfectly capable of reflecting on what he's leaving behind vs what he would gain by joining LoE. You make it sound like we are all sheep. Wave an uber drop in front of a guy and *swooosh* next thing hes standing in a line at krillins office.
Which leads to:
c) Do you honestly think the newcommer LoE would have remained in guild x for any extended amount of time beyond that. Even if a player from LoE hadn't probed his interest of joining our guild? The answer is no. He would have jumped ship the next good opportunity he got.
See, the problem isn't that LoE has the confidence to ask someone, but the fact that the player leaves the guild as a result. The "candy argument" is at the very core of this discussion. LoE makes no promises to joining players. They'll have a fair shot at loot for instance, on the same terms as the remaining guild. So if LoE doesn't do that how can it be our fault that the player leaves?
Your case has crumbled like a house of cards...
If we blame the player it automatically shifts focus to the guild he's about to leave. Why did he leave ? What was wrong with the guild ?
a, b and c is what leads me to say that poaching is a non issue. Weaker guilds will lose players for stronger ones any way you slice it.
And what is poaching anyway. Lets talk semantics for a second. By your definitions any player from LoE asking another player if he would be interested in joining is trying to poach (oh and lets not forget thereby making the entire guild into thiefs and/or traitors no less). My definition of poaching is a sanctioned move by the RO/GM to get someone into the guild. Krillin has come forth and denied this so I guess you are talking about scenario a here when you accuse us.
Do you have any idea how often stuff like that goes on in this game? Of course you don't. I've been approached a couple of times from other guilds during my active days (as i'm sure lots of other people have). I politely turned them down and moved on. What I didnt do was throw a fit over it on a public board!
I can totally relate to if some LoE player or maybe even an officer tries to get some people in that they feel could benefit the guild. As long as they have to get past krillin first. One can not always rely 100% on other people getting the full picture of what your guild is about - especially with an activity level as high as LoE's. How many times did loe/sotl slay legion these past 5 days, was it 6 times ? And god knows what other stuff (like 2-4 fg rvr teams) they do every night. So yeah, I understand that certain people wants to "spread the gospel", as it were. Moreso as we are getting daily accusations thrown in our face on this board, which only further damages the "normal" recruitment proces. The irony of it all, of course, is that probably every LoE player will attest to having a great time most nights and that they are better off in LoE than in their old guild.
So, looking at the big picture, at what point in time did the purpose of this game shift from having the maximum amount of fun to protecting smaller guilds and their playerbase ? And who's job is it to protect ?
Leaving a guild doesn't mean one cuts off his friends in the old one. It doesnt mean he can't talk to them, group with them etc. It does however mean he has gained new access to stuff he obviusly thinks can increase his enjoyment of the game. And who are you to cast judgement on that ?
Shame on LoE for providing this for our players...
LoE isn't evil. We aren't thiefes. We have no hidden agendas of conquering prydwen, destroying other guilds or in any way harm people from other guilds. Anyone who think so is sorely mistaken.
One last thing.
You've written that the breaking up of smaller guilds (where players join larger guilds like LoE) destabilizes albion as a realm. On what facts do you base that opinion ?
---------------------------
You say you have gotten what you wanted in this thread.
The problem is you got nothing. All you have are the personal opinions of 1 former LoE officer not actively playing daoc and 2 others.
Let's examine hrodelberts comment since you clinge on to them with your life..after all it's the only thin thread holding your case up at this point.
He said (which you of course tried to put out of context by only quoting the first part)
Don't you see the problem here ? You slant us for being inconsitent when infact it's pretty apparant that me and hrod are saying the exact same thing. Furthermore, try building an argument of your own instead of merely attacking those reasoning with you. It's like a judge convicting a person merely because he couldnt account for his whereabouts during some other complete strangers criminal act.
The burden of proof is still on the accuser and so far we've seen squat comming from you. You may think even 1 incident of poaching a player gives you the right to tarnish a guild...but you are wrong.
Whether you recruit a guy on his or your own initiative makes no difference. It's still :
a) he's decision
b) 1 of the guilds involved in the deal is still going to be left without a player any way you turn it.
But isnt that "candy" exactly what this game is about ? The rvr, the hunts, the fun, the loot ?
Don't patronize peoples intellect. A player is perfectly capable of reflecting on what he's leaving behind vs what he would gain by joining LoE. You make it sound like we are all sheep. Wave an uber drop in front of a guy and *swooosh* next thing hes standing in a line at krillins office.
Which leads to:
c) Do you honestly think the newcommer LoE would have remained in guild x for any extended amount of time beyond that. Even if a player from LoE hadn't probed his interest of joining our guild? The answer is no. He would have jumped ship the next good opportunity he got.
See, the problem isn't that LoE has the confidence to ask someone, but the fact that the player leaves the guild as a result. The "candy argument" is at the very core of this discussion. LoE makes no promises to joining players. They'll have a fair shot at loot for instance, on the same terms as the remaining guild. So if LoE doesn't do that how can it be our fault that the player leaves?
Your case has crumbled like a house of cards...
If we blame the player it automatically shifts focus to the guild he's about to leave. Why did he leave ? What was wrong with the guild ?
a, b and c is what leads me to say that poaching is a non issue. Weaker guilds will lose players for stronger ones any way you slice it.
And what is poaching anyway. Lets talk semantics for a second. By your definitions any player from LoE asking another player if he would be interested in joining is trying to poach (oh and lets not forget thereby making the entire guild into thiefs and/or traitors no less). My definition of poaching is a sanctioned move by the RO/GM to get someone into the guild. Krillin has come forth and denied this so I guess you are talking about scenario a here when you accuse us.
Do you have any idea how often stuff like that goes on in this game? Of course you don't. I've been approached a couple of times from other guilds during my active days (as i'm sure lots of other people have). I politely turned them down and moved on. What I didnt do was throw a fit over it on a public board!
I can totally relate to if some LoE player or maybe even an officer tries to get some people in that they feel could benefit the guild. As long as they have to get past krillin first. One can not always rely 100% on other people getting the full picture of what your guild is about - especially with an activity level as high as LoE's. How many times did loe/sotl slay legion these past 5 days, was it 6 times ? And god knows what other stuff (like 2-4 fg rvr teams) they do every night. So yeah, I understand that certain people wants to "spread the gospel", as it were. Moreso as we are getting daily accusations thrown in our face on this board, which only further damages the "normal" recruitment proces. The irony of it all, of course, is that probably every LoE player will attest to having a great time most nights and that they are better off in LoE than in their old guild.
So, looking at the big picture, at what point in time did the purpose of this game shift from having the maximum amount of fun to protecting smaller guilds and their playerbase ? And who's job is it to protect ?
Leaving a guild doesn't mean one cuts off his friends in the old one. It doesnt mean he can't talk to them, group with them etc. It does however mean he has gained new access to stuff he obviusly thinks can increase his enjoyment of the game. And who are you to cast judgement on that ?
Shame on LoE for providing this for our players...
LoE isn't evil. We aren't thiefes. We have no hidden agendas of conquering prydwen, destroying other guilds or in any way harm people from other guilds. Anyone who think so is sorely mistaken.
One last thing.
You've written that the breaking up of smaller guilds (where players join larger guilds like LoE) destabilizes albion as a realm. On what facts do you base that opinion ?
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Laird MacGregor
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- #130
<Bookmark for study>
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old.Chavez
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- #131
4.24 ?
You need to sleep not study, old fart
You need to sleep not study, old fart
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Generic Poster
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- #132
This issue is over, don't make me spend any more time then I need to. Go back through the thread, read my previous posts and you will find all your answers there. These are questions you've already asked have been answered by me.
Simply repeating the same words over and over in a different format, does not make you any less guilty.
You admit to poaching in earlier posts, and now deny it... ?
Oh that's right, you don't deny it but lay the blame on your average-member, who asks friends to join.
This is not so. You have officers who ask guilded players to join LoE. Numbers are irrelevant, it happens and this is a fact.
ummmm, look at Albion/Prydwen?
Simply repeating the same words over and over in a different format, does not make you any less guilty.
You admit to poaching in earlier posts, and now deny it... ?
Oh that's right, you don't deny it but lay the blame on your average-member, who asks friends to join.
This is not so. You have officers who ask guilded players to join LoE. Numbers are irrelevant, it happens and this is a fact.
ummmm, look at Albion/Prydwen?
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old.Atrox
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- #133
Thats not the problem with prydwen\albion.
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old.Chavez
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- #134
Well atleast you got nowhere to hide now eh generic.
Saying "read my old posts" is pretty odd considering i answered them all in my last post.
Your problem is still you sit here with absolutely nothing than your hollow opnions feverisly wrapped un in not-so-witty remarks.
It's no wonder you need an anonymous account to post bullshit like this. I wouldnt sign that drivel with my name either....
/laugh
Saying "read my old posts" is pretty odd considering i answered them all in my last post.
Your problem is still you sit here with absolutely nothing than your hollow opnions feverisly wrapped un in not-so-witty remarks.
It's no wonder you need an anonymous account to post bullshit like this. I wouldnt sign that drivel with my name either....
/laugh
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Generic Poster
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- #135
Chavez, you give me little reason to waste my time here.
You deny LoE poaches, you admit they poach, you deny they poach, you accept they do.... can you see a pattern forming?
Perhaps when you've made up your mind, we can resume this talk. Until such time, do not expect to find me wasting precious time on the likes of you.
What would you say is the problem?
You deny LoE poaches, you admit they poach, you deny they poach, you accept they do.... can you see a pattern forming?
Perhaps when you've made up your mind, we can resume this talk. Until such time, do not expect to find me wasting precious time on the likes of you.
What would you say is the problem?
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minnie
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- #136
not gonna bother reading 3 pages of replies but i do agree scarlin.
Im sick of the ego sicko's who won't admit that we need to get together and fight as a realm not as individual guilds for relics..
the performance of Albion is extremely SAD imo ...what's going on that we cannot get all level 50's from all guilds together and arrange a relic raid ?
FGS many albions have no pride at all
We are a realm to be laughed at by the other 2 realms ...Jeez
Im sick of the ego sicko's who won't admit that we need to get together and fight as a realm not as individual guilds for relics..
the performance of Albion is extremely SAD imo ...what's going on that we cannot get all level 50's from all guilds together and arrange a relic raid ?
FGS many albions have no pride at all
We are a realm to be laughed at by the other 2 realms ...Jeez
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old.Chavez
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- #137
If you'd have read what im saying you would understand that im refuting the very idea of poaching. Not that I expect you to understand it. Infact not once did I admit it. I was merely stating an opinion that i found it to be legit and later gave some solid reasons why I did. Something you can't manage if your life depended on it.
But your right about 1 thing. I am done in this thread.
ps: If your time is so precious I'd suggest you use it more wisely and stop acting like an ass on public forums.
Buh bye.
But your right about 1 thing. I am done in this thread.
ps: If your time is so precious I'd suggest you use it more wisely and stop acting like an ass on public forums.
Buh bye.
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Generic Poster
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- #138
You say you no longer play DAoC?
Perhaps you should stay out of your guild's business, I'm sure they could do without your help.
Farewell.
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old.Chavez
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- #139
Not so fast sport.
You see we, can play the numbers game all week for all I care.
Ok, lets take a look at those quotes :
That would be an opinion. Mine.
Opinion.
Whadda ya know - another opinion (nothing of the above have been confirmed by hrof merely enterpreted by me), but where are the facts? Give me a list of current LoE members who have been stolen from other guilds ! Preferably sometime between now and the collapse of the universe....
You see, me mentioning "there may have been 1 or 2 players poached but yadda yadda yadda...." is not actually me admitting it but merely a way of wording a sentence which went on to explain why i thought of it as unimportant.
Of course if you prefer, I could start every post by saying "LoE has in no way poached any players but if it were to happen this is why it's not an issue...."
pffft. What is this ? English 101 ? Jeez man rise above petty semantics and start argueing real points.
Let us summarize, then.
You start out by calling us a guild of poachers.....
I jump in and basically say we are not.
Hrodelbert denies knowing of any concrete case of poaching but admits there may have been friends asking ppl to join without RO's knowledge.
Krillin denies.
Wels denies.
I certainly know of no concrete cases of poaching. I gave you some slack early on and said to myself : yeah ok assuming we DID snag a couple of players heres why it isnt wrong...and went on argueing with you from there.
If I had known you would have searched through our posts like some crazed Sherlock holmes looking for "evidence" I would have worded it much more carefully. Sigh.
The thing you repeatedly and conveniently forgets, is that my posts have been about explaining why there can be no such thing as poaching going by your own definition and not whether it has actually happened.
I'm not above saying there may have been members of LoE trying to get people to sign up for the guild but it has not been neither intented or discussed within officers (as Wels attested, and wasnt ever in my time either) and especially the RO. This isn't even poaching in the way you are trying to make us look like doing it. This is a guild giving its members freedom to excersise their own judgement. I dare say the above is far from constrained to one guild having done something like that on this server.
You see this can be resolved real quick by giving us a list of every poached LoE member. I mean, "we're guild full of poachers" there must be alot of "victims" within our ranks. So name them.
Or do we suck at it that bad that for all the people we asked (begged?) to join us not one have complied ?
You've been asked by some random LoE member and suddenly your the expert in our entire history of recruitment and is able to proclaim that LoE is nothing more than a bunch of poachers.
Please.
Seeing as we're the only two talking in this thread by now we can take it to PMs if you wish. I'm sure peoples eyes are starting to bleed by now!
You see we, can play the numbers game all week for all I care.
Ok, lets take a look at those quotes :
That would be an opinion. Mine.
Opinion.
Whadda ya know - another opinion (nothing of the above have been confirmed by hrof merely enterpreted by me), but where are the facts? Give me a list of current LoE members who have been stolen from other guilds ! Preferably sometime between now and the collapse of the universe....
You see, me mentioning "there may have been 1 or 2 players poached but yadda yadda yadda...." is not actually me admitting it but merely a way of wording a sentence which went on to explain why i thought of it as unimportant.
Of course if you prefer, I could start every post by saying "LoE has in no way poached any players but if it were to happen this is why it's not an issue...."
pffft. What is this ? English 101 ? Jeez man rise above petty semantics and start argueing real points.
Let us summarize, then.
You start out by calling us a guild of poachers.....
I jump in and basically say we are not.
Hrodelbert denies knowing of any concrete case of poaching but admits there may have been friends asking ppl to join without RO's knowledge.
Krillin denies.
Wels denies.
I certainly know of no concrete cases of poaching. I gave you some slack early on and said to myself : yeah ok assuming we DID snag a couple of players heres why it isnt wrong...and went on argueing with you from there.
If I had known you would have searched through our posts like some crazed Sherlock holmes looking for "evidence" I would have worded it much more carefully. Sigh.
The thing you repeatedly and conveniently forgets, is that my posts have been about explaining why there can be no such thing as poaching going by your own definition and not whether it has actually happened.
I'm not above saying there may have been members of LoE trying to get people to sign up for the guild but it has not been neither intented or discussed within officers (as Wels attested, and wasnt ever in my time either) and especially the RO. This isn't even poaching in the way you are trying to make us look like doing it. This is a guild giving its members freedom to excersise their own judgement. I dare say the above is far from constrained to one guild having done something like that on this server.
You see this can be resolved real quick by giving us a list of every poached LoE member. I mean, "we're guild full of poachers" there must be alot of "victims" within our ranks. So name them.
Or do we suck at it that bad that for all the people we asked (begged?) to join us not one have complied ?
You've been asked by some random LoE member and suddenly your the expert in our entire history of recruitment and is able to proclaim that LoE is nothing more than a bunch of poachers.
Please.
Seeing as we're the only two talking in this thread by now we can take it to PMs if you wish. I'm sure peoples eyes are starting to bleed by now!
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old.Atrox
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- #140
The main problem is diffrent interests between the guilds.
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The Fifth Man
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- #141
Not wanting to interrupt Generic Poster and Chavez's little tete a tete (i've already made my views clear that poaching is a non-issue - disloyalty is the issue !). But before we start bemoaning everything and everyone about the relam, let's have a look at some stats.
Yes, lies, damn lies and all that, but look at this (apologies for rounding inconsistencies) ...
Midgard Hibernia Albion
Population 37% 28% 35%
Level 50s 44% 21% 35%
RP total 42% 21% 38%
RP last week 37% 20% 43%
First two rows, if you like, are power. Second two rows are a kind of performance measure. Remember that not all level 50s will be active now, and nor do all other players play all the time. But with numbers like this, the averages are fairly safe statistically.
The most obvious lesson to draw is that Albion is the only realm consistently performing better than its population should let it. Hibernia is consistently underperforming, and Midgard is losing the early lead it established with its overwhelming early dominance. Put this way, the picture for Albion is positively rosy.
Next have a look at the guild register on Prydwen :
Of the top 5 guilds in RP terms, 3 are from Albion, including first and second - SoTL and LoE. Third and fourth place go to Midgard, with The 30 bringing up 5th place. After this, there is no Albion Guild until 15th spot (Pheonix Legion) and a whole bunch of chasers within 1m RPs or so.
Of the 556 level 50s in Albion, 185 belong to SoTL and LoE together, and 58 to The 30 (243 in total - 271 if you count the other 50s in The 30's alliance). So the top 3 Albion Guilds in performance terms (which suggests active members) contain 44% of all Albion's level 50s.
By contrast, the top 3 Midgard Guilds contain 173 level 50s of their total of 714. Or their top 3 concentrate 24% of their 50s. In Hibernia, the figure for their top 3 guilds is 42%.
So what can we conclude here ? I'll offer you a few for free.
1. Hibernia and Albion have a similar degree of concentration of power in 3 guilds. But the 3 Albion guilds have nearly twice as many level 50s to shoot with.
2. In Midgard, power is much more evenly distributed, with 7 Guilds who would beat any Albion or Hibernia guild outside the top 3.
3. The Albion big 3 are better at gaining RPs than either the Midgard or Hibernia big 3.
So why doesn't that translate into relics ? Draw your own conclusions, and statistics are, after all, statistics. But simply put, it would seem that the overwhelmingly dominant guilds in Albion are using their power to gain RPs, and not relics, while the dominant guilds in Hibernia and Midgard give relics a higher priority.
The issue about whether Unity should work with the SoTL/LoE alliance (The 30 alliance doesn't seem to feature in discussions as much, but it shouldn't be discounted) is a complete red herring. The fact is that last week all the Unity guilds together (in a very good week for the Legion and the Black Circle) got 400k more RPs than The 30, 100k less RPs than SoTL, and 1.5m less RPs than LoE. The rest of Albion added together amounted to less than 2m. RPs can be taken as a rough indicator of the activity levels of level 50s in RvR. So basically, this suggests that Unity comprises about 18% of Albion's active power. LoE, SoTL and The 30 between them account for about 64% of Albion's active power. The Unity alliance seems to have been significantly overperforming in actually getting any relics at all.
Final conclusion : if LoE/SoTL, and to a lesser extent The 30, prioritised relics in the same way their counterparts in Hibernia and Midgard do, then the only thing preventing Albion from holding all the relics is the will and organisational capacity of those 3 guilds.
So there you go. This isn't a flame, it's got nothing to do with the issues of "poaching" or communication between alliances. It's about wanting the relics, and having the organisational ability to get them. All Albion's power has to do, is leave Emain. Unless SoTL, LoE and The 30 change their tack and start targeting relics, it will be a long hard struggle for Unity and the other guilds to try and get any relics back.
Happy New Year.
Yes, lies, damn lies and all that, but look at this (apologies for rounding inconsistencies) ...
Midgard Hibernia Albion
Population 37% 28% 35%
Level 50s 44% 21% 35%
RP total 42% 21% 38%
RP last week 37% 20% 43%
First two rows, if you like, are power. Second two rows are a kind of performance measure. Remember that not all level 50s will be active now, and nor do all other players play all the time. But with numbers like this, the averages are fairly safe statistically.
The most obvious lesson to draw is that Albion is the only realm consistently performing better than its population should let it. Hibernia is consistently underperforming, and Midgard is losing the early lead it established with its overwhelming early dominance. Put this way, the picture for Albion is positively rosy.
Next have a look at the guild register on Prydwen :
Of the top 5 guilds in RP terms, 3 are from Albion, including first and second - SoTL and LoE. Third and fourth place go to Midgard, with The 30 bringing up 5th place. After this, there is no Albion Guild until 15th spot (Pheonix Legion) and a whole bunch of chasers within 1m RPs or so.
Of the 556 level 50s in Albion, 185 belong to SoTL and LoE together, and 58 to The 30 (243 in total - 271 if you count the other 50s in The 30's alliance). So the top 3 Albion Guilds in performance terms (which suggests active members) contain 44% of all Albion's level 50s.
By contrast, the top 3 Midgard Guilds contain 173 level 50s of their total of 714. Or their top 3 concentrate 24% of their 50s. In Hibernia, the figure for their top 3 guilds is 42%.
So what can we conclude here ? I'll offer you a few for free.
1. Hibernia and Albion have a similar degree of concentration of power in 3 guilds. But the 3 Albion guilds have nearly twice as many level 50s to shoot with.
2. In Midgard, power is much more evenly distributed, with 7 Guilds who would beat any Albion or Hibernia guild outside the top 3.
3. The Albion big 3 are better at gaining RPs than either the Midgard or Hibernia big 3.
So why doesn't that translate into relics ? Draw your own conclusions, and statistics are, after all, statistics. But simply put, it would seem that the overwhelmingly dominant guilds in Albion are using their power to gain RPs, and not relics, while the dominant guilds in Hibernia and Midgard give relics a higher priority.
The issue about whether Unity should work with the SoTL/LoE alliance (The 30 alliance doesn't seem to feature in discussions as much, but it shouldn't be discounted) is a complete red herring. The fact is that last week all the Unity guilds together (in a very good week for the Legion and the Black Circle) got 400k more RPs than The 30, 100k less RPs than SoTL, and 1.5m less RPs than LoE. The rest of Albion added together amounted to less than 2m. RPs can be taken as a rough indicator of the activity levels of level 50s in RvR. So basically, this suggests that Unity comprises about 18% of Albion's active power. LoE, SoTL and The 30 between them account for about 64% of Albion's active power. The Unity alliance seems to have been significantly overperforming in actually getting any relics at all.
Final conclusion : if LoE/SoTL, and to a lesser extent The 30, prioritised relics in the same way their counterparts in Hibernia and Midgard do, then the only thing preventing Albion from holding all the relics is the will and organisational capacity of those 3 guilds.
So there you go. This isn't a flame, it's got nothing to do with the issues of "poaching" or communication between alliances. It's about wanting the relics, and having the organisational ability to get them. All Albion's power has to do, is leave Emain. Unless SoTL, LoE and The 30 change their tack and start targeting relics, it will be a long hard struggle for Unity and the other guilds to try and get any relics back.
Happy New Year.
O
old.Chavez
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- #142
Good analysis.
Only small thing i'd add is that RPs and relics aren't mutually exclusive you can do both as a guild. Afterall, a relic raid takes what 2 hrs ? Or put in another way it's not enough proof that T30, sotl or LoE doesnt care about relics because they have high rp totals.
You should put that in a seperate thread since this one is positively fubar at this point
Only small thing i'd add is that RPs and relics aren't mutually exclusive you can do both as a guild. Afterall, a relic raid takes what 2 hrs ? Or put in another way it's not enough proof that T30, sotl or LoE doesnt care about relics because they have high rp totals.
You should put that in a seperate thread since this one is positively fubar at this point
D
Desdecado-Seven
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- #143
Differnt strokes for different folks, i have even seem some mixed LoE & T30 groups, even PvE.. what is the world comming to, next we will be wishing each other happy new year, saying hello, rezzing fallen comrades.
Bollox to that comradary, i say lets all hire a big tent in shropshire (god they need the income), set up 35 Boxing rings and have a BIG SCRAP
On second thoughts...If you took the amount of effort and time taken posting to these meaningless flame threads on barry'sworld, and spent it talking in game, we could have had the relics 15 times over.
Albion will never have one alliance -> one true king -> one set of warlords or rulers. We arent interested enough in it, and the person who ran it would have to be a saint.
I think Hrod also mentioned the end game experience, once u have whatever kit you want, 520k rps, killed all the epic mobs, and legion, and the dragon. What end game experience is left?
I think I have said before, the issue is game content. Stuff to do up to level 50 is plentiful, then consider this
Epic mobs in barfog 8x50's
Anything in Dartmoor (other than dragon) 8x50s
Most of DF 16x50's
Princes 16x50s (maybe a few more)
Legion 40x50s (?)
Dragon 200x50s
Relic Raid 100x50(?)
So if you are a medium guild, or alliance, and can field maybe 2 or 3fgs (and a lot of guilds are that size) what is there to do? Ok so you have done that 30 times since the last content patch.
Typically I would say T30 fields 20 to 35 players at anyone time. We dont want to be so large we can field enough to do legion solo, we dont have the structure or play style for it.
The endgame issue is pure and simple, theres not enough to do. IMHO relic keeps should be able to be taken with say 30 to 40 people. That way relics would change hands A LOT, whats the point of having them if they take so much effort to move. We all like the excitement of relic raid attack/defence. Does it matter if it was easier to do / cheaper to do?
Just my 2 pence worth
D
Desdecado-Seven
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- #144
Great analysis, as previously stated, relics are too hard for T30 to take on (or indeed i suspect most guilds/alliances). This translates to co-operation, which turns into set up time, its bad enough organising one guild, let alone 5 to be ready and grouped, i dont think i have seen a pre-planned relic raid set of quicker than 1 hour in sauvage organising.
Here are some other T30 stats, erm yes we are very good at team based rvr 8v8, 16v16 we are good skirmishes, we are good at taking keeps even (when we kit up for it...) But out of our level 50s, the majority of our weekly realmpoints are earnt by a minority of people who RvR and never sleep... I suspect thats the same for anyone who earns more than say 40k a week....So another factor in considering guild 'power' is activity.
The other thing is, i cant say as I miss the relics? Do they make a pronounced difference to my character? Cant say as i have noticed...Maybe the damage display should say (+damage bonus for relics) when u hit something...
O
old.Chavez
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- #145
On the contrary i'd say it should take 150 people to do it. And if DAOC was lag free 200.
Relics is supposed to be the endgame but it kinda looses it's appeal if you can pick up 35 of your closest friends and just go over and take it at 4am.
Albion doesnt give the power relic the attention it deserves because it's so damn hard to protect anyway. Any sizable force can take it if they wanted to. Now, if it took atleast 150 to do it it would neutralize off hour raids and bring some more action back into primetime.
I would also attach more bonuses to owning a relic - other than just some arbitrary combat bonus across the board. XP bonus, cheaper tradeskill merchants...much more fortified frontier keeps + added patrols..whatever works really.
Or what about not just letting the relic lie on the ground but having to kill a mob ascociated with it. Like Killing Thor to get his hammer as he makes a last stand inside mjollnir. I realize the last part probably goes a bit outside the context of the game
Relics is supposed to be the endgame but it kinda looses it's appeal if you can pick up 35 of your closest friends and just go over and take it at 4am.
Albion doesnt give the power relic the attention it deserves because it's so damn hard to protect anyway. Any sizable force can take it if they wanted to. Now, if it took atleast 150 to do it it would neutralize off hour raids and bring some more action back into primetime.
I would also attach more bonuses to owning a relic - other than just some arbitrary combat bonus across the board. XP bonus, cheaper tradeskill merchants...much more fortified frontier keeps + added patrols..whatever works really.
Or what about not just letting the relic lie on the ground but having to kill a mob ascociated with it. Like Killing Thor to get his hammer as he makes a last stand inside mjollnir. I realize the last part probably goes a bit outside the context of the game
F
Fluids
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- #146
Albinos
I am a tree hugging hibbie. Even though we are desperately under populated hibbies have been doing very well over the last few months and here are the reasons why:
We dont overly crowd emain looking for realm points
We are united we mostly work as a team when it comes to keep takes, relic raids.
We have minimal bickering
We dont take these things as if they are the most important things in the world. We have a laugh with what we do.
We are very paranoid.
Afer reading a few posts from this thread it really does make me wanna stab myself. You guys are your own worst enemys! Stop talking about alliances and get out there and do some workother than emain zerging.
P.S Stop picking on us because we are a small realm and we look funny.
I am a tree hugging hibbie. Even though we are desperately under populated hibbies have been doing very well over the last few months and here are the reasons why:
We dont overly crowd emain looking for realm points
We are united we mostly work as a team when it comes to keep takes, relic raids.
We have minimal bickering
We dont take these things as if they are the most important things in the world. We have a laugh with what we do.
We are very paranoid.
Afer reading a few posts from this thread it really does make me wanna stab myself. You guys are your own worst enemys! Stop talking about alliances and get out there and do some workother than emain zerging.
P.S Stop picking on us because we are a small realm and we look funny.
E
eccho
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- #147
Does it mean that peeps in Alb who arent in the no#1 alliance cant form groups of their own for Emain / Raids if they happen to turn up or are they exluded totally?. If its the latter then that would be a problem but otherwise there should be nothing to stop anyone who happens to hear, by word of mouth, about a large-scale battle going on joining in right?.
Im just taking the example of a legion raid organised by the big alliance on Hib yesterday, Im part of a small guild which isnt a member of that alliance, but we heard about the raid and went along, formed our own group and joined in the action. Maybe we werent welcome, I dont know but I doubt it and certainly noone was told to piss off.
If people arent welcome in certain Alb raids then that is a bit sad and certainly by admission in some of these posts not everything possible in the game can be completed by one alliance/guild.
Well, I admit im probably a bit ignorant concerning Alb politics but is it really as bad as some posters make out?.
Im just taking the example of a legion raid organised by the big alliance on Hib yesterday, Im part of a small guild which isnt a member of that alliance, but we heard about the raid and went along, formed our own group and joined in the action. Maybe we werent welcome, I dont know but I doubt it and certainly noone was told to piss off
.If people arent welcome in certain Alb raids then that is a bit sad and certainly by admission in some of these posts not everything possible in the game can be completed by one alliance/guild.
Well, I admit im probably a bit ignorant concerning Alb politics but is it really as bad as some posters make out?.
V
vayasen
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- #148
Hello ;].
Im sure you all know..but im Vayasen...and im GM or Lords of England. I have been for many years. (thats the formal bit out of the way).
Id like to aska question firstly. Who in DAOC - Albion is Generic Poster?
Secondly, I'd like to asnwer a qeustion that GP has asked many times(for a formal reply). I am coming here to answer thsi question(formally), so please do me the courtesy of accepting my answer as the truth, instead of mumbling somethign about contradictions. I am here to asnwer the question you posed...understand?
LOE does not poach players from other guilds. Firstly..I find it a nasty business. Secondly, when peoepl ask about joining LOE (and believe me..not 30% of interested parties actually make it into the guild) I ask why they want to join LOE..instead of staying with thier current guild..or why they left theor previous guild.
I hope that has answered your question GP.
If you have issues with this....I would like you to message me 'IN GAME' and call me a liar to my 'face'.
Another issue....which Chavez has touched on. Several peoepl have joined LOE from other guilds. Let me pick on PL for an example. Im pretty sure that some people who are now LOE...who at some stage previously were PL...have spoken to old friends in PL...and said 'Hey...LOE is great..we do lots of Legion..great RVR...nice friendly folk' (yaddah yaddah).
To me...THIS IS NOT LOE POACHING. It is simply 2 in game friends talking about what respective guilds do. I will only dictate what my guildies can and cant say when im wearing a leather jacket with a peaked hat with an embroided Swastika on it.
Peopel will hear about the good things(and bad) about LOE through general chat.....this chatting will often be flowing from LOE into other guilds. This is simply soicilising. This has nothing to do with poaching.
Im starting to ramble(for a change ;o). Let me recap for GP. LOE does not actively poach players from other guilds. LOE does not support poaching players. I as Vayasen do not support poaching players.
GP...please do me the courtesy fo accepting thsi formal statement as truth(or..as aforementoned..contact me IN GAME to call me a liar). This is infact open to any1 in Albion. As most peopel know that..even tho im some 'uber guild leader'...im a normal DAOC player and very approacahble(unless im spammed..in whcih case I a bit grumpy ;p).
Lastly. Id like to say that this thread was nto abou tLOE and its policies. It was about the Alliances supporting /not supporting each other.
LOE alliance made a clear plea for help(please dont give me the crap about LOE DEMANDING things). LOE made a clear plea for help..to another Alliance who were assembled..adn had yet to move out(far from it...they hadnt even got to Excal to port). This request was rebuffed(in a non polite fashion I might add).
therin lay the basis for this thread. Let it also be re-itterated for people. Immeadiately after thsi unfortunate event..LOE/SOTL rushed out as fast as possible to try give support to Unity...as we always woudl do if already assembled and in any realistic postion to give aid.
Its 2.31. Sorry for typos(i by nature of my spam in DAOC type very fast and have no time for luxories such as correcting errors ;p)...sorry for any missed punctuation...but I hope this clears things up a little.
Im sure you all know..but im Vayasen...and im GM or Lords of England. I have been for many years. (thats the formal bit out of the way).
Id like to aska question firstly. Who in DAOC - Albion is Generic Poster?
Secondly, I'd like to asnwer a qeustion that GP has asked many times(for a formal reply). I am coming here to answer thsi question(formally), so please do me the courtesy of accepting my answer as the truth, instead of mumbling somethign about contradictions. I am here to asnwer the question you posed...understand?
LOE does not poach players from other guilds. Firstly..I find it a nasty business. Secondly, when peoepl ask about joining LOE (and believe me..not 30% of interested parties actually make it into the guild) I ask why they want to join LOE..instead of staying with thier current guild..or why they left theor previous guild.
I hope that has answered your question GP.
If you have issues with this....I would like you to message me 'IN GAME' and call me a liar to my 'face'.
Another issue....which Chavez has touched on. Several peoepl have joined LOE from other guilds. Let me pick on PL for an example. Im pretty sure that some people who are now LOE...who at some stage previously were PL...have spoken to old friends in PL...and said 'Hey...LOE is great..we do lots of Legion..great RVR...nice friendly folk' (yaddah yaddah).
To me...THIS IS NOT LOE POACHING. It is simply 2 in game friends talking about what respective guilds do. I will only dictate what my guildies can and cant say when im wearing a leather jacket with a peaked hat with an embroided Swastika on it.
Peopel will hear about the good things(and bad) about LOE through general chat.....this chatting will often be flowing from LOE into other guilds. This is simply soicilising. This has nothing to do with poaching.
Im starting to ramble(for a change ;o). Let me recap for GP. LOE does not actively poach players from other guilds. LOE does not support poaching players. I as Vayasen do not support poaching players.
GP...please do me the courtesy fo accepting thsi formal statement as truth(or..as aforementoned..contact me IN GAME to call me a liar). This is infact open to any1 in Albion. As most peopel know that..even tho im some 'uber guild leader'...im a normal DAOC player and very approacahble(unless im spammed..in whcih case I a bit grumpy ;p).
Lastly. Id like to say that this thread was nto abou tLOE and its policies. It was about the Alliances supporting /not supporting each other.
LOE alliance made a clear plea for help(please dont give me the crap about LOE DEMANDING things). LOE made a clear plea for help..to another Alliance who were assembled..adn had yet to move out(far from it...they hadnt even got to Excal to port). This request was rebuffed(in a non polite fashion I might add).
therin lay the basis for this thread. Let it also be re-itterated for people. Immeadiately after thsi unfortunate event..LOE/SOTL rushed out as fast as possible to try give support to Unity...as we always woudl do if already assembled and in any realistic postion to give aid.
Its 2.31. Sorry for typos(i by nature of my spam in DAOC type very fast and have no time for luxories such as correcting errors ;p)...sorry for any missed punctuation...but I hope this clears things up a little.
V
vayasen
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- #149
Oh...one last thing..with referance to somethign Gideon mentioned.
I too felt at one stage..almost as if LOE were competeing with SOTL.
Nowadays tho, I too feel that we are not competing..but co-ordinating.
Our use of Alliance chat often has the Mids/hibs on its knees in RVR. Our PVE ventures work very well. General alliance banter is good humoured.
I too felt at one stage..almost as if LOE were competeing with SOTL.
Nowadays tho, I too feel that we are not competing..but co-ordinating.
Our use of Alliance chat often has the Mids/hibs on its knees in RVR. Our PVE ventures work very well. General alliance banter is good humoured.
D
Derric
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- #150
Too much spam!