One step too far?

[Xavier]

A step too far?

I just noticed a link from Bluesnews to this thread at rage3d.com. It seems that one of the 'latest and greatest' forms of copy protection, namely 'StarForce3', installs itself onto your PC as a device driver (without the users permission) and when the source game is uninstalled, remains resident (and active) on your PC.

Aside from the obvious trojan/spyware issues here, it turns out StarForce3 is responsible for all manner of USB device compatibility issues as well as causing instability under Windows 2000 and XP systems and conflicts with (or the disabling of) many common cd-burning apps, such as Alcohol 120%.

I was initially going to post this thread in the TechNation/Hardware forum, but we're all gamers and PC users at one level or another here at FH, so I'd rather gauge the general consensus - how do you guys feel about games installing such things onto our systems without as much as a warning?

For the most part, copy protection just doesn't work, the biggest group of users affected to date isn't the warez chimps but end users who have had to crack legitimate games they've bought just to get around compatibility issues with the likes of SafeDisc and SecureROM just to play the games they've bought... and now this!

Xav

 

[Bym]

This was also posted on Adrenaline Vault forums:

I looked at the error report from Starforce 3 and it contained a list over all running programmes, a list of every application/game/whatever I have installed on my computer including ALL items from the "start/programs" menu, and some other details I did'nt want to send off - and which would'nt be of interest for troubleshooting anyway

Pretty shocked that this is legal for companies to do, even Microsoft wouldn't dare to pull a stunt like this.

 

[Frizz]

Ok, i'm going to look like an idiot here, but can someone point to me where i can find "Device Manager" on Win XP Home pls.

In the meantime, go here for a funny:

http://hellskitchen.com/argue.htm

 

[nath]

In pro, it's winkey+pause then click on hardware > device manager. Is it not the same in home?

Oh and as for the new copy protection. I won't be buying that shit, I'll just download the version that has been cracked and had all the shit protection removed. It's an utter crock of shit. The latest Radiohead album I bought had that gay cd copy protection so I couldn't mp3 it. So I downloaded clone cd and copied it in a way that got rid of it the protection and allowed me to make ENTIRELY FUCKING LEGAL mp3 copies for my own personal use.

Rage and fury.

 

[Frizz]

In pro, it's winkey+pause then click on hardware > device manager. Is it not the same in home?

'Tis, 'tis. Blonde moment at 02:00!

 

[caLLous]

I won't be buying that shit, I'll just download the version that has been cracked and had all the shit protection removed.[/i]

That's the problem though, Starforce 3 'infects' as many files on the cd as the publisher wants (it is entirely customisable to the publisher's needs). As of yet, there isn't an easy way to crack it without going through every single file manually. This takes a lot of time. As an example, TOCA Race Driver 2 has been on the market on the PC for just over 3 months and still hasn't been entirely cracked. This game is on a DVD, which creates many more problems, one of the major contributors to the delay is the fact that it's so big and has extra files (and more files obviously means more time debugging/cracking). All copy protection can be broken, if by reverse engineering (the clever way) or brute force (the not so clever way), it just takes that little bit more time with Starforce 3 because it's a **** of a protection system.

In terms of the fight against piracy, I'd say the developers of Starforce 3 have definitely made a significant impact. There was a game called Dead to Rights a couple of months ago, it took 9 weeks to crack and the crack itself was nearly 500mb.

 

[MYstIC G]

In terms of the fight against piracy, I'd say the developers of Starforce 3 have definitely made a significant impact. There was a game called Dead to Rights a couple of months ago, it took 9 weeks to crack and the crack itself was nearly 500mb.

People will just start releasing pre cracked full versions tbh.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm all out for anti-piracy, hate the damn thing. Call me a purist or whatever the hell you want, but i own no burned cd's, videos, not even one single mp3 that isn't unpublished(the legal stuff kids)..

But...no f*cker is gonna look at my files if i don't give the permission for it/can stop it.

 

[Xavier]

A couple of games known to install StarForce3 onto your PC:

Beyond Divinity
True Crime: Streets of LA
Breed
Toca Race Driver 2
Gangland

I'll post more as I find them, there are a lot of communities discussing SF3 at the moment, information is spread all over the place.

One of the most interesting things I've heard was let slip by a StarForce representative, who acknowledged that one of the reasons they've gone for this device-driver approach is to almost 'mask' the work done by your processor to decrypt files from the CD/DVD. Bearing in mind StarForce 3 can encrypt every file in the game that means an extra process decrypting game files on the fly as your PC requests them... so now we've got yet another reason why games will run badly on our PCs... slow cpu, slow graphics card, too little ram and over-zealous copy-protection which eats memory and cpu time just to push files into memory.

 

[Xavier]

And more:

Bandits
Kill.Switch
X2: The Threat (certain versions)
Prince Of Persia: The Sands of Time
Rally Championship Xtreme
Pax Romana
IL-2 Sturmovik
Desert Rats vs. Afrika Corps
Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon

 

[Doomy]

I can certainly see why they are doing it. Considering how easy it is to acquire things over say usenet i must say that if i was a publisher or developer and saw my blood sweat and tears smeared all over a binary newsgroup weeks before i actually released it i would go to any length to want to avoid it.

If its at the expense of game performance however, that is disturbing. Maybe they will include the decryption performance hit in the reconmended specs? One thing that really annoys me tho is the fact that the games i buy i dont want to have the cds lying around getting scratched and knackered so ill always make an image (or grab the latest no cd exe) and if i cant do that it takes the piss. Piracy is affecting even those that go out and buy the latest and greatest games, its affecting the people that actually care for the industry.

Im no angel when it comes downloading 'trial' versions of games, the thing is I am also not a mug. If i been waiting for a game for a VERY long time and the publishers/developers have convinced me that their new games is going to be the dogs nads and THEN when i buy it it turns out to be a crock of shit that ill play for 1 hour im not getting value for money. ANd being an avid gamer i try lots of different games but in the last 2 years i have maybe 10 or so games that i play. And not even that regularly. I have the originals for those games and its good to have them. Dont have to worry about cd keys for online play, if things go wrong, reinstall without having to hunt down the latest no-exe patch for the new patch that just came out.

One of those games i got is Raven Shield and its expansion, i was lucky to have a liteon cd burner to install this game with, i also had daemon and A 120% installed, installation was a breeze. But if you go over to their forums theres actual staff there saying they need to go out and buy/install a non burning drive because the shitty disc protection system wont actually let you install THEIR software that YOU paid for if you have what probably every other person whod actually play that game installed as a drive. A burning device, maybe 2. And if you have virtual drives running on pc it will say bugger off aswell. Gives you a .cab error. Theres people still not able to play as they cant.

The movie industry has it right, go to the cinema if you like the film go buy it on dvd later when its oout. I truly think that a similar way in the games industry would benefit games AND publishers etc. £40 is a lot for something you HOPE is good. Reviews are all fine and dandy but their just opinions, everybody has one. Id like my own opinion if im going to spend a decent portion of my wages on something. Demos just dont do it for me. Whos to say the developers just havent stuck the greatest 15 minutes of the game in there.

Sorry about rant, im hungover, saw the thread and my fingers took over.

 

[nath]

And more:

Bandits
Kill.Switch
X2: The Threat (certain versions)
Prince Of Persia: The Sands of Time
Rally Championship Xtreme
Pax Romana
IL-2 Sturmovik
Desert Rats vs. Afrika Corps
Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon

Man, so it's actually been out for a while then? I didn't realise.

I downloaded Breed (after buying it, blahblah), but don't remember reading anything in the nfo about hardcore copy protection.

*checks*

And according to nforce, Prince of Persia uses SafeDisc... are you talking about rereleases or what?

 

[Xavier]

Not all games see a single release, apparently the versions of PoP which went into Europe and Russia were SF3 protected, the US version had SafeDisc.

I wasn't aware of the practice before reading up on this, but it explains why sometimes US and UK users need to use different game patches, etc.

Xav

 

[nath]

I guess this is yet more shit they hide in the end user license agreement that *no one* reads.

Tossers.

 

[Sar]

I had this on my system.

:<

Removed it with this though.

Bastards.

 

[Xavier]

Let us know when you try and run whichever game installed it and it refuses to start heh.

Overall I'm surprised, I though reaction would be much stronger than this - maybe publishers are going to get away with it, simply because the great majority don't care... ugh

Xav

 

[nath]

How do you tell if it's on your system, just run the software? It wants me to reboot as soon as I run it, and that's a tad inconvenient right now.

 

[Xavier]

well, under XP at least you do the following...

Right click 'my computer' -> properties

hardware tab -> device manager

under 'view' select 'show hidden devices' then scroll down to the grey symbol for 'non plug and play drivers' - expand that category and look through for the StarForce device drivers...

Xav

 

[nath]

Christ, I have it.

Rage and fury has been replaced with a desire to castrate whoever/whatever is responsible for this shit on my system.

 

[Xavier]

heh, anyone else found they've got it hidden away on their PCs?

Xav

 

[nath]

I ran the exe to remove it, rebooted and they were still there. Ended up having to rightclick/uninstall all 4 starforce things and reboot again to get shot of them.

What exactly does it do? Didn't stop me playing any copied games, so what's the point in it?

 

[Xavier]

It depends on the version of Starforce which installed it.


Some simply prevent you using non-cracked copies of games - so if someone tried duplicating a Starforce3 based game it would be installed on setup and then prevent the game from running.

Others rely on internet access and report back system details and cd keys as parts of registration, error logs or even activating your copy of a game (oh yes, it seems Product Activation is something we'll be doing for our games soon too). It's also the doohicky responsible for decrypting the encrypted game files on the disc or within the install.

Xav

 

[RandomBastard]

Ok this sort of thing goes to far. I myself buy good games as i want to play them online. I admit i ocasionally download the game first to try it out, as i'm a student and dont have money to throw arouund on duff games. I definatly don't like the idea of it remaining and sending data back to base. What if some dodgy publisher decides to use this to feed spam mailing lists?

 

[Xavier]

I think spam is the least of our worries... most of us get plenty of that as it is.

I've been looking for EULAs to some of the games I listed before and not one seem to mention this third party application they're installing, which will remain resident and load every time your system starts, even after uninstallation.

So, so far we're giving them a chunk of our processors to decrypt the games when we play them, reducing the game performance we'd otherwise see, allowing them to stop us from using certain cd-rw drives and burning apps, and free reign over the data stored on our systems. Lubbly.

Xav

 

[Frizz]

Fack, just found this bollox now. So that's what, 3 of us who have/had it now?

Most likely from my copy of Breed.

 

[RandomBastard]

I only havent got it installed because i don't currently buy/play a huge amount of games, there was a time when those sort of games would be owned and played by me

 

[nath]

Most likely from my copy of Breed.

Bummer. Particularly as Breed is utter turd, too :\

 

[Frizz]

Bummer. Particularly as Breed is utter turd, too :\

It's like being screwed over twice.

:/

 

[Xavier]

Fack, just found this bollox now. So that's what, 3 of us who have/had it now?

Most likely from my copy of Breed.

3 out of 3 who've checked since I posted here and come back with an answer, yes, add to that Bym and I as we both found it on our PCs.

I'm more worried that thus far noone has come back to say they haven't found it... Anyone?

 

[RandomBastard]

I kinda implied that xav. My pc at time of writing does not have starforce3 installed. Most recent games i have played is general zero hour, farcry and bf:v