Ohoh Tildai, you did it again :p

[Ekydus]

Right. I know you mean hybrids do less damage by definition yada yada yada... but in Albion people would have a Paladin over a Minstrel in a group because it is a PRIMARY tank. The Minstrel is classed as a secondary tank because it can't hold as much aggro.

KTHXBYE.

Stop posting you look even more like a moron the more you post.

 

[old.anubis]

Originally posted by Ekydus
Right. I know you mean hybrids do less damage by definition yada yada yada... but in Albion people would have a Paladin over a Minstrel in a group because it is a PRIMARY tank. The Minstrel is classed as a secondary tank because it can't hold as much aggro.

KTHXBYE.

Stop posting you look even more like a moron the more you post.

in albion you can call infiltrators/minstrels and other shit as tanks, it's your right
but without determination one is not a tank, one is forever_staying_in_mezz_tank_wannabe

btw, you have a nice way to make a conversation
personal insults make you look older than you are, really

 

[Ekydus]

Minstrel and Paladin are in a group. Who's the (main) tank?

Infiltrator and Paladin are in a group. Who's the (main) tank?

Paladin and Armsman are in a group. Who's the (main) tank?

Catch my drift?

 

[Hatt]

Re: Re: Re: Ohoh Tildai, you did it again

Originally posted by Pin
IMO Tildai should really swap that Avernal Necklace for an Infernal Diamond Necklace until the next patch.

3% Thrust resist? :lol:

that explains it..

You attack tildai with your spear (NO STYLE) and hit for 330(-20)
You critical hit for another 161 damage!

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Pin
I would be surprised if a Savage with 60+ H2H really did get much below 50% triples/quads. I know I find myself looking back through fights and can't say I can even recall one single.

So... Any Savages want to provide a full log of say 2-3 hours RvR to look through just to dispell any myths floating around?

no, but I will be logging in my mates h2h savage and do unstyled on a door for 30mins or so.

anyone got a good parser?

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Ekydus
WTF?

Paladins are primary tanks and believe me we dream of hitting close to this.

Paladins are a defensive tank while savages are an offensive one, moron.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by noaim
Paladins are a defensive tank while savages are an offensive one, moron.

and offensive ones shouldn't really have capped advanced evade and high parry

 

[parzi]

fyi i got my ass handed bad 1v1 against a paladin
i used ip and purge, haste dps slash res evade buff, after evade style did 149 dmg mainhand on his 9xx af and he block a lot of offhand attack which did around 50 dmg to him

was unbuffed though.

oh, and why noone bothers to read my long post ?

ps. pin yes i agree to that

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Pin
and offensive ones shouldn't really have capped advanced evade and high parry

High parry?

With 1.5 spec points per lvl, and savagery/weap to spec, that dont leave much for parry, except if you use the selfbuff. But the state parry is at in atm in rvr, I think the life you lose from using the parry selfbuff is more than you gained from not being hit cause of parrying.

 

[Tilda]

lolol

i r famouse

i have 13% resists fyi
will be capped next patch
pin, i dont wear a necly atm, any suggestions?

Tilda

 

[Tilda]

lol pin posting my vital stat son that thread :x

 

[vofflujarnid]

http://www.simnet.is/gurki/tildai.jpg

Nerf Doagha!

Btw, he is RR5+, using MP greaves, claws and has 99% SCed armor with everything capped resists, stats, skills etc.

 

[-frostor-]

and that should allow savages to hit for 600++ with failed styles?

k

 

[gurki]

Hæ krissi =)
Svolítið gagnslaus þráður ;p

 

[parzi]

it also allows them to hit for crap damage with tons of single hits

 

[adari]

Re: Re: Re: Ohoh Tildai, you did it again

Originally posted by Denisée
I think u need to learn something. There is ability that is called Enchanced Evade. It it is available for berserkers and savages, this ability that is resived at level 35 gives them the posibility to evade at 360 degree. So from wherever u hit a savage he will allways have the same chance of evading, ofcourse not parry but that need a fix in rvr anyway.

not quite

enhanced evade is only 5% chance, not like 25% front based evade

 

[parlain]

Originally posted by parzi
ok, ill post a statement on this from my point of view.

imho the defensive part of the savage is overpowered, with almost cap evade 360 degree. (with self buff ofc). You cant just slam me like most other tanks, cause i will evade that a few times.
Savages got a too strong defense for a light tank imho.

But, defense does not make big hits, so noone of the noobs out there whines about it. On the other hand, hth CAN make big hits, ppl get hit by quads combined with a side pos style (like on the screen the first hit), they dont know its side pos and they just need to face to take 200 dmg less for example, so they whine.

They do not notice the crappy anytime style single dmg that a savage does to them. they will just remember the 1-2 800+hits.

Logs on the single double tripple quad rates have shown that the chance of hitting with an offhand weapon is in row with cdw / dw.
For example, a merc hits like 65-70% with offhand. Hth savage hits over 60% single (yes, go search logs on vn savage if you dont belive this), 25% double, 5% tripple and 10% quad. (rougly).
That savages quad more than tripple could be a bug, and this should be changed maybe. What makes hth better than dw/ cdw are usefull styles which reward a bit of skill that the player has. Anytime style spammer gets low dmg, ppl who use side and backpos are rewarded with high dmg and a short stun on backpos, or long on the sidepos followup style. (FYi, savages can not buy Prevent flight ra, which is very nice for tanks since it helps getting enemy tanks of your healers, or just slow down enemys so they cant run.
DW/cdw/LA should get positional styles with growth rates similar to hth imho.

What ppl also dont know, is that hth weaponskill is about 200 lower than normal weapon specs with same stats& spec. unbuffed i have 1067 WS. That kinda suxx when fighting defensive tanks (but its ok, since im not supposed to win 1v1 vs a paladin or something).

Cant say much about 2h savages though. But basically they work like friars with no heal buffs grp abilities, but they get more hp tank ras etc for it, and tank weaponskill. I dont know if they r overpowered or not in the offensive part. but imho hth is not. It has bad streaks with´only single hits, and very lucky 2 times a quad in a row or something. As i said , sad that ppl only remember the quad, not the crap dmg single hit...

I would not cry if the haste and evade buff would be toned down a little bit though, or mayb evade 3 instead of 4, but i hope that savages will not be nerfed to hell and no longer fun to play like many other classes have been thx to all the cry babys out there.

Parzi, 50 savage.

p.s. also dont forget, buffs take away life. most classed add things to a grp (aura, song chant buff whatever), while savages take something away from a grp, mana from the healer that is.

1) Yes Sav Quad and Trip percentages are the wrong way around from what Mythic intended imo but the % quoted seem silimar to numbers being bandied around

2) I hear rumblings that the parry/evade/haste chants are seen as too powerful as it is and looking for it to be toned down-will it happen idd but it's been suggested by the Savage TL so likely

3) For Eykdus, really really don't compare pve to rvr in any way shape or form, it's just silly as one has almost no bearing on the other; I'm happy with the abilities given to my Paladin, my damage output isn't what a merc or friar would be but it's enough to put away casters solo in slam time should I be going offensive and I bring a whole heap to the group...

 

[vofflujarnid]

Hæ, Gunni. Já, svolítið gagnslaus þráður en hvað segir þú annars?

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Tilda
lolol

i r famouse

i have 13% resists fyi
will be capped next patch
pin, i dont wear a necly atm, any suggestions?

Tilda

You will be even more famous after you told the world how scouts get to the lord without bashing the doors down.

 

[dakeyras]

Savages are a classic case of incompetent handling of beta testing. Savages were balanced during beta and then changed at SI release! Doesn't make sense to me.

Beta savage:

Viking base class
Lvl5 loses Axe, sword, hammer. Gains H2H
Big reduction in weaponskill as H2H too overpowered. (around 200 less than 50 weapon spec on other pure tanks)

SI Release:

Give back ability to spec Axe, sword, hammer but with full weaponskill.

Hmmm..what's the point in beta testing?

As for H2H. If the triples/quads are given their correct percentage chances before DR then H2H Savages are fine. Yes, a quad can hurt but only the first hit is styled, the rest is unstyled and so not only will they do less damage, they will be evaded/parried/blocked in 1.62 by all but soft targets. Add the very low weaponskill and a tank/hybrid class has no excuse for being blasted by a savage unless they offer themselves up to positionals. Cloth wearers/support will get ripped up but, hey, that's the savages job!

It would be difficult to nerf H2H Savages without making them impossible to level, and useless to RvR. Any reduction in abilities has to be accompanied by a reduction/elimination of the hitpoint cost.

Any class that loses up to 30% hitpoints in a fight without being hit is very hard to nerf. The problem people encounter with Savages is that they are almost all buffed to the bollocks, for the simple reason that if you haven't got a bot then levelling a Savage is an exercise in masochism.

As we all know, buffed to the hilt classes in RvR tend to hit very hard. When almost every savage has high aug backup then they will hurt, as will any other melee class.

Savages are a class that shines when botted or in a good group with buffs/heals. Unbuffed and solo they ain't that hot.

 

[old.Reno]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohoh Tildai, you did it again

Originally posted by adari
not quite

enhanced evade is only 5% chance, not like 25% front based evade

Not true, enhanced evade works for your full evade chance.
Higher levels evade, dodger, dex/qui they all work fully.

I don't have the patience to search for it but someone did a test on it on the vnboards. Go look for it if you want proof.

Danita

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Yes, a quad can hurt but only the first hit is styled, the rest is unstyled and so not only will they do less damage, they will be evaded/parried/blocked in 1.62 by all but soft targets.

Being unstyled makes no difference whatsoever to evade/block/parry rates. Being unstyled just means a lower chants to-hit (i.e. higher chance to get a flat 'you miss').

 

[Tilda]

Originally posted by vofflujarnid
http://www.simnet.is/gurki/tildai.jpg

Nerf Doagha!

Btw, he is RR5+, using MP greaves, claws and has 99% SCed armor with everything capped resists, stats, skills etc.

and im RR6 with MP whip, MP shield and MP armour, all stats and skillcs capped, just resists are shitty atm.

Tilda

 

[Flimgoblin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohoh Tildai, you did it again

Originally posted by adari
not quite

enhanced evade is only 5% chance, not like 25% front based evade

enhanced evade is the full evade 4 - whether it gets the bonus from the buff is unknown.

The reason savages are sick is because their self-buffs don't hurt whilst buffed - they take a %age of unbuffed hp ... buff them up and the cost is easily ignored.

Plus pure tank weaponskill and dual wielder damage + better defence.

h2h has lowered weaponskill which should balance it out... but two handed savages are just stupid

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by Skaldic
First apply those to a target with decent resists (below 200 on every hit there, below 150 on some), then consider that the majority of the time Savages SINGLE hit for those figures.

180.

150.

200.

Lame damage for a primary tank.

I like this one.

According to the pic Doagha, made 236+192+201 UNSTYLED (he failed to perform Kellgor Fist perfectly).
Nerf whines apart, this guy calls 639 damages, with an unstyled atack, "lame damage for a primary tank" :doh:

 

[dakeyras]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ohoh Tildai, you did it again

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
but two handed savages are just stupid

Don't think many would truly argue with that.

I fully expect to see a hefty reduction in Savage 2H weaponskill slipped into 1.63.

What is certainly on the cards, as the TL has asked for it and TL requested nerfs have always been implemented is the parry buff been removed completely.

Whilst this will make the savage look less 'uber' on paper, it will in effect do the square root of jack as no savage that I know uses the parry buff. Blow more than 3/4 and you in the shit. Haste/Evade/DPS...and one of the resists if good healer in group.

 

[old.anubis]

if guy gets 2 masterpieces in a row you also cry "nerf, and nerf him hard"?
this guy got quadro followed by triple, it happens sometimes, people make screenshot of this, post it etc, other loosers start to whine etc. always like this.

3% thrust resist, 20% bonus from relics, you gotta take some dmg, isnt it?

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Ekydus
WTF?

Paladins are primary tanks and believe me we dream of hitting close to this. FFS this is what someone with high resists would be hit for by a Savage, according to this poster on the VNBoards. OMFG that poster is a total fucking idiot. I'd love to hit for 180 with high resists. That player can fuck off. I for one am glad someone from the inside finally admits that their own class is over powered. It makes a change and I wish more players who could admit that their character is over powered (when it clearly is) to admit it...
But no, we are stuck with the majority of people who want to hold on to their over powered creature and even come up with fake logs to prove it.
In summary: Americans are idiots.

Erm Pallies are not primary tanks, do not delude yourself into thinking that, when you can deliver the dmg of a polearm then you can call yourself a primary tank until then your a hybrid 2H or a S+S defender.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Ekydus
Right. I know you mean hybrids do less damage by definition yada yada yada... but in Albion people would have a Paladin over a Minstrel in a group because it is a PRIMARY tank. The Minstrel is classed as a secondary tank because it can't hold as much aggro.

KTHXBYE.

Stop posting you look even more like a moron the more you post.

Erm, Armsman are a dime a dozen, I know cuz I have one, and my Armsman is NOT a primary tank I have spec'd in Shield and 1H, given the lack of Mincers I would choose a mincer over a pally any day.

As for Mincer or Pally in a grp I would choose mincer unless somebody has managed to get a pally to do a classy mez.

Your are mixing your definitions, were talking RVR here, reasons I would have a Pally in the grp are:

1. They are a mate (I play for fun)
1a. Somebody desperate for a group (See above)
2. End regen
3. FH
4. Other Chants (heal/Dmg/Shld)
5. Cuz they wear plate and melee more than a Wizzy

(maybe swap 4/5)

I do not get a pally in the group cuz they do dmg, let the Polearmers/Wizzies/Cabi's/Infils and Friars to that.

Now if your talking PVE then fine, you will take and hold agro till somebody AOE's it.

I dont think you'll find too many people calling mincers tanks anywhere..there are exceptions to this, but those exceptions dont specifically make them group friendly.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by old.anubis
if guy gets 2 masterpieces in a row you also cry "nerf, and nerf him hard"?
this guy got quadro followed by triple, it happens sometimes, people make screenshot of this, post it etc, other loosers start to whine etc. always like this.

3% thrust resist, 20% bonus from relics, you gotta take some dmg, isnt it?

Lets not forget that chain is also weak to thrust.