No rezzing, thoughts?

[Cazedy]

Heard MJ talking about no rezzing.

Here's some quotes from MJ on KS:

"We will have dedicated healers but rezzing is something that I really want to think about. It's become a major trope for MMOs and I wonder if it should be even be used anymore."


"Think about what the loss of rezzing will do to sieges for example. How does the dynamics change if you can't insta-rez people? I think it is a fascinating discussion."


I personally am a bit skeptical, always loved the long fights you had where rezzing played a major part and gave the fights more complicity and depth.


I'm not impossible at trying new things though, but i do hope that if it adds nothing to the gameplay he will be willing to scratch it and not just add it for the heck of adding something different.


What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Vesir]

well, as a healer myself, i'm against no rezzing at all. i'll be fine if there's a limit per 30 minutes, a cd on the rez, or a big price i'd have to pay to rez someone, but no rezzing at all feels wrong.

 

[Cazedy]

Yeah a big cooldown would add strategy, thought and would make it way more complex then what we have today in terms of gameplay. While removing it completly, adds nothing

 

[Cazedy]

It would also get boring quick when you're roaming and after every fight even though you won you will have to wait for those who died to get back, esp since we will use the oldschool traveling(which i like). Does not feel very fluid at all

 

[Harkrom]

Yeah I agree with a bit of CD for rezzing, but not for wiping out it at all. 30 minutes are too many, maybe 15, no?

 

[Mabs]

having a cast time on it, as daoc did originally, gave it strategy
PR insta rez, and Egg of Youth insta pbaoe rez... yea, not so much .. just button mash

 

[Cirventhor]

I'm all for limited rezzing, but taking it completely away would be a mistake IMO.

GW2 is a good example of what happens when rezzing is too easy and too readily available. It promotes mindless play/zerging.

 

[E_E]

Yeah we need some sort of rezzing, imagine being in deep enemy territory lossing 2 out of 4 players in grp 1 of them had the speed and now the run back gonna take 45 mins

 

[Clarus Ava/Hib]

It is fine, as it is in DAOC. Even with Instant Rezz and Egg.

Normal rezz is limited by Mana.
Instant Rezz Timer
Egg Timer

 

[Poag]

No combat rezzing. Easy halfway point between the two.

To get around a Main Tank dying, you have a 30 mins cooldown ability to revive one person that doesn't work in pvp/rvr

 

[Himse]

Oh, did we learn nothing from GW2?

No rezzing ruins any sort of group play, one/two of your party gets ganked by a couple of stealthers / adders whatever and you're running back to PK, how useless is that.

It ruins any keep play, once you're dead, you'd be dead, having the different types of rez atm means you have more chance to take/defend a keep.

 

[GoldenGoat]

I reckon something like this would work best:

- A slow, easily-interrupted rez that costs a lot of mana and endurance and imparts very debilitating rez sickness, AND
- A quickish combat rez for dedicated healers with a long cooldown that imparts moderate rez sickness.

That way, suffering a death causes real damage to a group, but doesn't immediately force them to retreat.

 

[Clarus Ava/Hib]

30 Minute timer will prevent all People from playing classes with clothes armor

I think a rezz System like DAOC ist brilliant enough
-> Sick timer
-> No buffs
-> Limited Health/Mana/Endurance after rezz

So what do you want else?

Perfect rezz -> Limited to 05-20% but cost a lot of Points to get this
Egg -> Keep raid, it will help all the guys that are not playing in a Group

 

[Xrystofer]

I had this idea, Since MJ talked about how Souls work when you slay someone we could use the same concept.

In Order to resurrect someone you will need to imbue him with a part of your soul weakening the caster in the process for an amount of time.
Until the subject recovers from the heavy burden of resurrecting the soul won't return to the caster.

This should limit combat resurrection and also have an impact on dying.

 

[Clarus Ava/Hib]

Strategic is, when no one has a self rezz except a release to a far away point
Strategic is, when you are unable to release and be back in the combat within seconds
Strategic is, when you have several classes which can ressurect someone else

 

[Saran]

This was my take on a no res system:

A crafted artifact that took immense resources and upkeep within an established Keep that would allow players to revive there.

When the current Keep holding that ‘Artifact’ is under a pro-longed assault, it disrupts the magic of the artifact making it so that you have to revive at the next closest Keep with a similar Artifact in order to return.

This way the Defense doesn't have an endless supply of revives at the Keep they are defending and it may give incentive for small groups to go around and disrupt the Keeps about the one the main force is assaulting, or elsewhere on the map, to spread the defenders out and cut off supply lines of reinforcements.

Having no rezzes would really make people have to think about their actions and not only individual actions but as a realm as well, to be forced to work together to have as little loss during the siege as possible; least I would think so.

An 8 man would still do well against a 'zerg' if there were no rezzes. Think about it. 8 people who are on a voice program together, probably know how each person reacts to different scenarios... against a 'zerg' where they'll probably be the ones caught off guard by the 8 man flanking them or taking down the stragglers as they move from point A to point B. A good 8 man would know when to pull out and not linger, to not have as many of their side die due to teamwork. Granted there is risk involved always as there should be when taking on larger numbers. The zerg is usually just a mindless mass that isn't as cohesive of a unit.

I still think it would be interesting to have 'no resses' as I said before, and others have, it causes people to really think about their actions and work together. Of course I'm sure MJ won't make it so it takes 'too long' to return to the fight if it is implemented but, as he said before, Death has to have a sting and you shouldn't be able to get right back into it so quickly. MJ knows there needs to be a balance for the time it takes to 'return'; not too long or too short.

Especially makes it interesting for those on the Defense inside a Tower/Keep and the importance of reinforcements arriving and making it inside alive. And Defenders would want to defend their Keeps. Why you ask? The Keep more than likely has storage of resources, perhaps your homes within the walls of the Keep and maybe even a Stabilizer or other Artifact that a crafted made. Don't forget either how much time and resources were spent building a Keep of any size, which should be enough incentive along not to leave your Keep to be taken easily.

 

[rynnor]

What's needed is a mechanism that prevents spam ressing at sieges/mass battles but allows regular ressing away from such sites.

Thus soloers/groups roaming wouldnt be impacted but also sieges would not degenerate into eternal battles.

 

[Plik]

They need to do rezz like in DAoC otherwise its gonna be a pain to turn a first lost fight......

 

[Nomans]

Still 2 years, many things can change between now and then, don't know why so many are worried. Much worse things in life than that.

 

[Raven]

Bad idea. Nothing wrong with the DAOC system.

Non combat only rez would be crap in siege or zergs.
Long cool down timer would be crap in group vs group, siege and zergs.
No rez would be crap in everyting

So long as it isn't insta rez and you still have some sort of debuff I think a rez is fine.

Really I don't care either way as I hope to play solo again.

 

[Mabs]

so thinking about this a bit more, why not go with a sliding scale.
in daoc you had:
PR (insta, no res sick), more healing spec = more health/power on rez

you could have some sort of "faster it casts, longer you are rez sick/debuffed/snared/whatever for "
so in a non-critical situation, you can just channel for 30secs, get someone up, continue, if its rushed, you can get them up so they can come with, but they wont be effective for 2 mins, or so

 

[Varians]

I had this idea, Since MJ talked about how Souls work when you slay someone we could use the same concept.

In Order to resurrect someone you will need to imbue him with a part of your soul weakening the caster in the process for an amount of time.
Until the subject recovers from the heavy burden of resurrecting the soul won't return to the caster.

This should limit combat resurrection and also have an impact on dying.

I also worked with a similar idea, where each ress would gimp the resser. so his heals became weaker and weaker for each ress.

Also on comments section, someone was talking about the idea of either the caster or the reciever would enter the veil upon casting the rezz. In order to get out again the caster or reciever would either need to fight his way out or perform some sorta task. veilstalkers/walkers could be helpfull here

 

[eksdee]

No rezzing would be a car crash, while rezzing being too easy/spammable (see: GW2) is equally as bad if not worse. I'd definitely go along the lines of long/easy to interrupt cast time. It needs to be a part of RvR though, it's another 'layer' to the combat - playing defensive, making space to rezz, rebuffing etc.

I think the thing that has been the issue with rezzing in PvP in other games is the one thing none of them had - hard interrupts. That's already confirmed for CU so I see no reason why rezzing can't be a balanced part of RvR.

 

[rynnor]

I also worked with a similar idea, where each ress would gimp the resser. so his heals became weaker and weaker for each ress.

Also on comments section, someone was talking about the idea of either the caster or the reciever would enter the veil upon casting the rezz. In order to get out again the caster or reciever would either need to fight his way out or perform some sorta task. veilstalkers/walkers could be helpfull here

Any negative effects you apply to the resser will encourage the use of res bots tbh. Healers losing healing power for ressing sounds horrible tbh - its all they do?

 

[Coldbeard]

Removing ability to rez is not a good solution to anything. I also think it's better to look at the costs of rezzing and the penalties of being rezzed.

 

[Clarus Ava/Hib]

Rezz Receiver: Sickness, no Buffs, no Selfbuffs, only partly mana/end/health
Rezz Sender: Loose a lot of mana, can not heal in this time, have to buff and it's rupptable!

It think that is penalty enough for both members.

PR is nice stuff, but with 10% life it is a weak target.

 

[Plik]

Rezz Receiver: Sickness, no Buffs, no Selfbuffs, only partly mana/end/health
Rezz Sender: Loose a lot of mana, can not heal in this time, have to buff and it's rupptable!

It think that is penalty enough for both members.

PR is nice stuff, but with 10% life it is a weak target.

Yep that is the way rezz should work. If you cant rezz GG

 

[Fefner]

no rez = zerg as its safer in numbers, please please please have rez in the game. GW2 failed big time with their system.

 

[Jairon Kalach]

No rezzing could be awesome. It will promote significantly more cautious play, and give a huge advantage to small teams willing to take pyrrhic victories in order to slow down a zerg. It gives players an extra reason to think and worry a bit before the engage the enemy.

 

[Raven]

No rezzing could be awesome. It will promote significantly more cautious play, and give a huge advantage to small teams willing to take pyrrhic victories in order to slow down a zerg. It gives players an extra reason to think and worry a bit before the engage the enemy.

It would also completely kill group vs group RvR. Imagine having to run all the way back to the revival stone every time someone in your group gets killed or having to stand about doing nothing while waiting for the group to come and pick you up.