Nexus 7, iPad or Surface?

[soze]

Rubbish, apple pay pittance for the components. You have th retina display in the iphone and the ipod touch, so why not on a 7.9 screen?

It was on the price breakdowns on the website that pulls things apart and prices up the machine. The retina display is one of the most expensive parts in them because it is custom made for apple only, getting a display that other people use is cheaper I suppose.

Before yesterday i would of said you will get at least a year out of it but with the iPad 3s coming out that rule looks to be shot so maybe in 6 months there is a new iPad mini but i don't see it coming out with Retina for the same price.

 

[cHodAX]

And...http://gizmodo.com/5953866/microsoft-surface-rt-review-this-is-technological-heartbreak

Summary: lovely hardware (except the cover, which is a disappointment) but Windows 8 RT is undercooked and you should wait for the full fat version.

Anandtech love the cover.

Oh and as for RT...

Switching between applications is faster on Surface/Windows RT than any competing mobile platform. There’s no double tapping of anything, no pressing and holding, just an edge gesture swipe like you’re flipping through pages of a virtual book. Apple's four finger swipe to move between apps on the iPad is the closest competitor here, but the edge swipe in RT is a bit more natural.

Activating the task switcher takes some getting used to, but once you do it’s much better than the alternatives.

The other big advantage that Windows RT brings to the table is the ability to display two applications on the screen at the same time. The options are fairly limited. You can have one app take up the majority of the display, with a second application limited to a narrow strip of real estate on either the left or right of the screen, but it’s better than only being able to show one thing at a time. Not all applications work well in this screen sharing setup, but it’s great for things like keeping an eye on email while browsing the web, or watching Twitter while playing a movie. Microsoft is definitely ahead of the curve when it comes to bringing true multitasking to tablets.

Early days but the basics all work very well, the mutlitasking is excellent, easily hammering the other tablet O/S's.

 

[cHodAX]

We know that windows rt is rubbish. With the full version it will make the surface an awesome piece of kit!

Yep, only so much you can do with an A9 core, the pipeline is neither deep nor wide. It's fine for apps but nowhere near enough for full blown applications, Office 2013 RT is fine for productivity but it really does stretch those ARM cores to the limit. The x86 version will be a fucking monster of a tablet, easily able to run Photoshop with alot of plugins.

With only two Windows RT tablets in our possession (ASUS’ VivoTab RT and Surface), this section would be pretty bare. To rectify this problem I phoned a friend who let me borrow a soon to be released Clovertrail (Atom Z2760) based Windows 8 tablet. To avoid getting in trouble with the specific manufacturer of this tablet I’ll refrain from posting photos or calling out the device by name, but we’ve talked about it on the site before.

As a recap, Clovertrail is the x86 alternative to ARM for Windows 8 tablets. The Atom Z2760 integrates two 32nm Saltwell cores running at up to 1.8GHz. Each core is Hyper Threaded so the entire SoC can work on four threads at a time, similar to NVIDIA’s Tegra 3. The GPU is Imagination’s PowerVR SGX 545 running at 533MHz. The SoC features a dual-channel LPDDR2 memory interface. NVIDIA’s Tegra 3 has a single channel LPDDR2 interface running at a 1500MHz data rate in Surface.

On the user experience side alone, the Clovertrail tablet is noticeably quicker than Surface. Surface isn’t slow by any means, but had it used Atom hardware it would’ve been even more responsive.

 

[cHodAX]

Thats a shame. I was considering one as a laptop replacement, but if the keyboard is naff then its a definite no go.

It's not naff, most of the reviews are positive and you have the option for £10 more to upgrade to the pro-keyboard which is actually rather good for long productivity sessions.

Type Cover

If Microsoft’s Touch Cover is the perfect companion for occasional typing, its Type Cover is the professional counterpart. Thickness increases by roughly 2.2mm, enough to be noticeable while still maintaining the svelte profile of Surface, but in exchange for marginally more bulk you get a keyboard with actuating scissor keys.
The keys themselves are a little bigger than in Touch Cover, thus reducing the amount of empty space between each key, but overall the feel is very similar. Where Type Cover really delivers is in its use of scissor keys. If you want more of a notebook feel, this is the way to go.

 

[cHodAX]

The other big benefit of Windows RT is you still get a desktop mode. If you want to tinker with things like scrolling speed or if you want direct access to the underlying file system, you still get those things. Windows Explorer exists and RT is installed in the same C:\Windows directory that we’ve been looking at for years. Want to dump photos from a USB stick into your photo library? You can just copy them as you always would using Explorer. You get a command prompt, you can write and run batch files, you get access to diskpart and can even manually TRIM the integrated NAND storage. Did I mention you can even tinker around in the registry? Not everyone will care about these things, but I get a kick out of them. Windows RT/8 is an almost perfect marriage of new mobile world simplicity with the flexibility that we’ve enjoyed from Windows for ages.


Using the desktop mode with touch isn't ideal, but it ends up being more usable than I expected going into the review. I was able to do things like activate buttons, resize and move windows around using touch alone without much struggling.

Loved this bit, a proper desktop, real file management and the ability to use real utilities. iOS and Android could learn alot, the fucking things don't even let the user run a disk scan or try to repair any corruption.

Pretty good summary here...

As a device, Surface is incredibly well executed. It makes sense that Microsoft’s OEM partners are feeling the pressure as there’s very little that I would change about Surface from a design perspective. The chassis is well built and the integrated kickstand is seriously one of the most useful features to ever meet a tablet. The optional Touch and Type Covers complete the package. While a full sized notebook is going to deliver a better typing experience, when paired with its Touch/Type covers Surface results in a more productive platform than any other tablet.

Surface is the most flexible tablet I've ever used. Through two seemingly simple additions to the design (but incredibly complex to actually develop and implement), Microsoft took a tablet and turned it into something much more. If you're frustrated by productivity limits of currently available tablets, Surface really seems to be the right formula for a solution. It's important to note that Microsoft's execution with Surface establishes the company as a competitive powerhouse in the mobile design market. I can only imagine what multiple revs of the design will give us, not to mention what could happen if Microsoft set its obsessive sights on smartphones or notebooks.

The Windows RT experience, in many senses, is clearly ahead of what many competitors offer in the tablet space today. Multitasking, task switching and the ability to have multiple applications active on the screen at once are all big advantages that Microsoft enjoys. For productivity workloads, Surface is without equal in the tablet space.
Content consumption is also great on the device. Surface's display isn't industry leading but it's still good. Reading emails, browsing the web flipping through photos and watching videos are all good fits for the platform - just as good as competing solutions from Apple or Google.

 

[Tilda]

I am really excited by it. I'm debating getting an RT because it would serve the job of my failing netbook, most of which is emails, word, powerpoint, and most importantly Onenote. Although it would be handy to run other stuff such as Anki, I'm sure that there will eventually come media players etc. tbh it seems asthough I could do everything I do on my netbook, on Surface.
Only thing I want to check or test is if its possible to "Print to Onenote" from a Surface RT from Powerpoint slides into Onenote - Chod, if you see one can you look?!

 

[cHodAX]

I am really excited by it. I'm debating getting an RT because it would serve the job of my failing netbook, most of which is emails, word, powerpoint, and most importantly Onenote. Although it would be handy to run other stuff such as Anki, I'm sure that there will eventually come media players etc. tbh it seems asthough I could do everything I do on my netbook, on Surface.
Only thing I want to check or test is if its possible to "Print to Onenote" from a Surface RT from Powerpoint slides into Onenote - Chod, if you see one can you look?!

One client has been looking at getting them in for testing, if they do I will definately be trying it out.

Microsoft Office is included. Windows RT includes four apps from Office 2013, all of which were updated this week to the final release. For creating and editing documents, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote work exactly as they do on a Windows PC. Trying to open those documents on an iPad offers only a vague approximation of the formatting, with no editing capabilities unless you pay for a separate app.

Onenote is in there so I would imagine the 'print to Onenote' option will be as well, fingers crossed.

 

[cHodAX]

http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...softs-first-serious-metro-application-1089164

Looks quite possible it will have.

 

[TdC]

eeee I dunno. I saw the rez and thought "meh". I read about the cpu and typing fast pushing it to 50% and thought "meh"

 

[Tilda]

http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...softs-first-serious-metro-application-1089164

Looks quite possible it will have.

Yeah the thing is, Office 2013 has it, I already have that on a PC for testing. My issue is, does Office RT have it, because its a slightly cut down version of office/onenote/powerpoint, I just wondered if it got cut.
MS have a guide on the differences but it's not mentioned.

 

[cHodAX]

Yeah the thing is, Office 2013 has it, I already have that on a PC for testing. My issue is, does Office RT have it, because its a slightly cut down version of office/onenote/powerpoint, I just wondered if it got cut.
MS have a guide on the differences but it's not mentioned.

I doubt it got cut, it's an important feature for Onenote and the hardware is more than capable of running the conversion.

 

[cHodAX]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6392/the-windows-rt-review

Final Words

So, ten thousand words later, what can we take away from Windows RT? It’s definitely another superb user experience design from Microsoft. Say what you will about Windows Phone 7, but damn if that UI isn’t gorgeous. The Metro design language translates over to the tablet form factor really well, resulting in the Windows Modern UI. We’ve obviously known how Modern UI looks and feels through the various Windows 8 preview builds, but Windows RT ends up being more focused and offering a more consistent experience. It’s a side effect of being limited to apps from the Windows Store - because you spend a significant majority of your time in the new Windows UI, desktop use is minimized. In Windows RT, the Windows Desktop serves the purpose of being the more capable and powerful layer underneath the main portion of the UI, as opposed to Windows 8, which sometimes feels like the new Windows UI existing as an impractical interface layer on top of the traditional desktop.

The dichotomy just feels more comfortable in Windows RT than I feel like it has been in the previous Windows 8 systems that I’ve dealt with. It’s nice. This is the first time I feel like I’ve really connected with the new Windows UI, it makes a ton of sense to me now. I still think for mouse-based navigation, you’re better off treating it as a glorified Start menu, but it’ll be interesting to see how legacy programs affect the use of Modern UI in x86-based Windows 8 tablets as the Windows Store matures.
If you’re really concerned about the state of third-party apps, you just have to wait and see. I’ve seen a lot of snap judgements made about Windows RT in the last couple of days based on the dearth of good applications in Windows Store, and while I agree with that sentiment, I feel like it’s extremely shortsighted to write off the ecosystem already. Neither version of the OS has gone on sale yet, and we know that there are a number of applications that will go live on the official release date, as well as many more coming in the weeks ahead.
This isn’t like Windows Phone, where we need to see whether the platform will get any market traction before predicting the growth of the app marketplace. You can basically assume that the marketplace will expand significantly unless somehow everyone stops buying Windows-based systems on October 26th. The odds of that situation arising seem relatively low, so my bet is that the strength of the ecosystem will be a non-issue a month from now.

The default inclusion of Office 2013 and the emphasis on physical keyboards makes Windows RT the first tablet platform to significantly address the question of productivity. Combined with the equally advanced task switching and multitasking built into the UI, and this becomes the first legitimately useful tablet operating system out there. The Galaxy Note 10.1 wasn’t bad, but it was a single device that built additional functionality into a custom Android skin. Every single Windows RT slate comes out of the box with Office and the ability to have multiple active application windows. It’s just a few steps ahead of competing tablet platforms at this point.
And it’s not like RT loses out on a content consumption front. It’s paired with what is a very strong entertainment store and gaming franchise in Xbox Live, and the browsing experience is definitely competitive. It’s also a competent e-reader, with Amazon’s Kindle being one of the headlining apps currently in Windows Store. It even matches the power efficiency of the other ARM-based tablets, with competitive battery life and standby time. Obviously, ARM is the driving factor in the low power consumption, but it’s good to see that Windows is on a similar level as iOS and Android.

So this is a tablet platform that can do a good job of replacing both an iPad and an ultraportable in a number of different workflows. You get the best of both worlds, in some sense - Windows RT tablets have similar form factors to the iPad and leading Android tablets, and offer near-equal battery life, performance, and user experience, but they also give you the added benefit of strong productivity applications and the power of Windows Desktop. From a conceptual standpoint, almost anything you can do with an iPad can be done equally well (or close) on a Windows RT tablet, but the desktop-caliber office suite and versatile multitasking interface of Windows RT are impossible experiences to replicate on the iPad. It's not a perfect operating system by any means, but it brings a new dimension to the tablet space. So if you’re looking for a new tablet this fall, Windows RT deserves your consideration.

 

[Killswitch]

I've put off buying a tablet because of the Apple hardware refreshes, but I think it's time to take the plunge; 32GB iPad4 for the missus and a 32GB iPad Mini for me.

Look for me back in this thread in 4-6 months sounding very angry

 

[cHodAX]

Tilda...

So, instead of redesigning Office to fit within the new Modern UI guidelines, Microsoft simply ported the x86 version of Office 2013 over to ARM and runs it as a desktop application. I can’t blame them - Office 2013 was redesigned with the Metro design language, so it already fit the Windows RT visual style, and it was just easier for them to not mess with the UI or UX further. But that’s actually a good thing - Office is the killer application for RT because it functions exactly the same as Office 2013 on any other system. If you live in the world of Office 2013 and SkyDrive, this is fantastic news because you need to make almost no adjustments to your workflow. It’s just as capable and powerful on here as it is on any other Windows system.

 

[dysfunction]

Not keen on a Microsoft Surface then?

 

[Killswitch]

Not keen on a Microsoft Surface then?

My mate (disclosure: who works for Microsoft) asked me the same question. The problem is that I've already drunk the Kool-Aid in that all my podcasts and music are in iTunes and I find it easy to work with. I've tried various things to organise my music properly for Android, but I always end up going back to my iPod Touch and I just can't see the MS route being any different, especially given my memories of Windows Media Center and WMP in general.

My plan was to get a Nexus 7 for myself and an iPad3 for the missus but with the new Mini coming out my last arguments against going Apple (it's too big and/or the Retina Display is flashy, substance-free tech-porn) are both gone.

 

[Aada]

Not keen on a Microsoft Surface then?

MS surface is far too expensive for what it is and the apps for the device will be lacking and probably not as good as the IOS/roid versions.

Honestly £399 for something totally new and unproven? It is far too expensive to take a gamble on, you mention MS Surface to most people and they will look at you really strange.

Apart from geeks I just don't see the general public even considering MS Surface in their homes.

 

[Ch3tan]

So Aada, you pissed you bought a ipad 3 days before their price is set to crash?

 

[ECA]

Aada, you don't have to emotionally invest in a particular company or product just to join a tribe you believe is "winning" so you can feel better about yourself.
#justsayin

 

[cHodAX]

My mate (disclosure: who works for Microsoft) asked me the same question. The problem is that I've already drunk the Kool-Aid in that all my podcasts and music are in iTunes and I find it easy to work with. I've tried various things to organise my music properly for Android, but I always end up going back to my iPod Touch and I just can't see the MS route being any different, especially given my memories of Windows Media Center and WMP in general.

My plan was to get a Nexus 7 for myself and an iPad3 for the missus but with the new Mini coming out my last arguments against going Apple (it's too big and/or the Retina Display is flashy, substance-free tech-porn) are both gone.

At least someone was able to rationally explain why they made the choice. Hope it works out for you.

 

[cHodAX]

MS surface is far too expensive for what it is and the apps for the device will be lacking and probably not as good as the IOS/roid versions.

Honestly £399 for something totally new and unproven? It is far too expensive to take a gamble on, you mention MS Surface to most people and they will look at you really strange.

Apart from geeks I just don't see the general public even considering MS Surface in their homes.

Err and you know this how? Based on the apps store before official release? Come on, they have world class productivity apps from day 1, all the other AAA apps from Android/iOS will migrate over in the next six months at which point Windows 8 RT becomes a very viable eco-system.

 

[soze]

So Aada, you pissed you bought a ipad 3 days before their price is set to crash?

If Aada got it online and its still within 14 days he can send it back no questions asked and get himself the new one?

I was thinking of the surface instead of replacing the failed experiment that is the Nexus 7 with an iPad mini. But I have decided against it as the best part of iOS is how settled and smooth it is, they were first to market and you can tell by how well it all works. So I will be waiting a year to see how much interest is shown in Windows Surface before i try it. I had hoped Windows Phone would pick up quicker than it has but the App Market is still too far behind. Fingers crossed the Surface takes off and grows fast.

 

[Tilda]

Lol Aada.

Killswitch, thats fair enough. I dont suppose you'd mind asking your MS mate the following question, I cant find a straight answer anywhere - "On Surface RT, is it possible to open up Powerpoint RT and "Print to Onenote" slides into Onenote RT?" I know Office 13 has this, but obviously can't try an ARM/RT version and I know there have been some changes.
If he can get me a surface discount I'd probably wee a little bit too!

 

[Aada]

I could return the iPad now and get a full refund if I wanted but im not interested in the iPad 4 better processor for browsing the web and playing music and the odd game, very happy with what I bought and it has barely been put down since we opened it up.

You might all lol at my Surface post but I've owned WP7 since it was released and the apps are a joke tbfh if it wasn't for the great UI I would have dumped it a long time ago.

Facebook app? Barely works and I mean barely by the fact the only thing you can pretty much do is message other people and comment on their status its like the Facebook app iPhone and Android had 6 years ago.

Twitter is horrible.

Basically any big name app you use on which ever OS you are using arm expect a watered down version on Surface.

App developers have never really been interested in WP7 since day one and I don't expect that to change on Surface and WP8.

£399 is a joke for a new Tablet into the market at this point i just don't see who their target market is.

 

[Tilda]

Pretty sure the original "untested" ipad retailed around £399 didn't it?

The point about surface, for me atleast, is that it has office. It has Onenote, where I take all my notes already, it has powerpoint, word etc. That is 90% of my laptop use right there.
If I'm at home I use my desktop for content creation, and sure a tablet/laptop is good for content consumption, but having Office suit opens up a small portal divice as a viable source of content creation. Neither ipad nor android can do this.
If I was that worried about being able to run stuff, I could just get the 86x one and run any windows app I want!

 

[soze]

People have always said the iPad costs far to much though as you will see in this thread. Apple shit is expensive the Nexus 7 shows how little a named tablet can cost. So even allowing £50 for a licence there is still a £150 price difference.

*FYI I don't see the price as a problem I am just pointing out where the double standard is.

 

[Bodhi]

Far too many Apple retards in this forum, thought you guys were supposed to be above all the computing for retards the fruity firm peddle? Seriously folks, work have supplied me an iPhone and iPad, and they are terrible. Horribly restrictive, bit unreliable (home buttons and WiFi problems mainly), they do fuck all out of the box, stupid proprietary chargers, completely uncustomisable, rubbish for signal and poor sound quality, and that's just off the top of my head without even mentioning Apple's love of lawyers or the abortion that is iOS 6, or the complete lack of New ideas in their product launches.

I expect such behaviour from aada as he is a bit simple, but the rest if you should out down the Starbucks and hang your heads in shame.

 

[Aada]

So Aada, you pissed you bought a ipad 3 days before their price is set to crash?

I only paid £360 for my iPad so the price cut isn't a huge deal.

 

[Aada]

Far too many Apple retards in this forum, thought you guys were supposed to be above all the computing for retards the fruity firm peddle? Seriously folks, work have supplied me an iPhone and iPad, and they are terrible. Horribly restrictive, bit unreliable (home buttons and WiFi problems mainly), they do fuck all out of the box, stupid proprietary chargers, completely uncustomisable, rubbish for signal and poor sound quality, and that's just off the top of my head without even mentioning Apple's love of lawyers or the abortion that is iOS 6, or the complete lack of New ideas in their product launches.

I expect such behaviour from aada as he is a bit simple, but the rest if you should out down the Starbucks and hang your heads in shame.

Go play on you're Vita you simpleton.

 

[cHodAX]

Much of what he said is correct though, might not agree with the vitriol but the argument holds water, they sell like hotcakes not because they are best in class but because of the branding and mass-media media adoration.