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Raven

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Yeah, except they missed like 75% of the character development. Tyron's development from being a careless fopp to not being a cunt, as an easy example. Pick a main character, and their story was boiled down to a few scenes. You could fill a series with Arya/Cat of the Canals alone.

It was entertaining, granted, but it wasn't true to the text and no series or film can be, because it would be endless...which is why it just doesn't work.

Also, "He took so long" he has always "took so long" it's how he writes. Sorry it's not instant gratification, but..

Lots of people miss the point of the series of books, it is all about how people can change, which was rushed in the TV series.
 
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Scouse

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Wheel of Time so far has been really crap.
I never read it because I think nearly all fantasy is bunkum and most fantasy shows are shite. I'm reasonably pleasantly surprised by this because my expectations are so low.

I mean it's still a bit shit - but it's not "fuck this - off" :)
 

Zarjazz

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I never read it because I think nearly all fantasy is bunkum and most fantasy shows are shite. I'm reasonably pleasantly surprised by this because my expectations are so low.

I mean it's still a bit shit - but it's not "fuck this - off" :)
That seems to be the common consensus. Anyone that read the books, especially if they became invested enough to read the entire series, cannot help but see all the *many* differences in plot and to the characters they literally spent years with in their heads. That's incredibly hard to overlook so they are judging the show harshly. Everyone else sees it for what it is, a completely average inoffensive show with some extra money thrown at it. It's certainly not the dumpster fire adaptation that Foundation turned out to be.
 

Gwadien

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But isn't that the case for like every tv series/films?

End of the day, big money usually means popcorn munching films/series.
 

Zarjazz

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But isn't that the case for like every tv series/films?
Fair but it seems to be especially true for this series from what I've seen. Anyone that's read the books and likes the show without having pages and pages of criticism seems to be rarity. I grew up on the books so I can absolutely understand where they are coming from but I had zero expectations to begin with, like you say almost every adaptation turns out inferior, so I've tried to judge it for what it is.
 

dysfunction

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I never read it because I think nearly all fantasy is bunkum and most fantasy shows are shite. I'm reasonably pleasantly surprised by this because my expectations are so low.

I mean it's still a bit shit - but it's not "fuck this - off" :)
I didnt read the books either...


That seems to be the common consensus. Anyone that read the books, especially if they became invested enough to read the entire series, cannot help but see all the *many* differences in plot and to the characters they literally spent years with in their heads. That's incredibly hard to overlook so they are judging the show harshly. Everyone else sees it for what it is, a completely average inoffensive show with some extra money thrown at it. It's certainly not the dumpster fire adaptation that Foundation turned out to be.
I think Foundation is much better than Wheel of Time
 

DaGaffer

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Yeah, except they missed like 75% of the character development. Tyron's development from being a careless fopp to not being a cunt, as an easy example. Pick a main character, and their story was boiled down to a few scenes. You could fill a series with Arya/Cat of the Canals alone.

It was entertaining, granted, but it wasn't true to the text and no series or film can be, because it would be endless...which is why it just doesn't work.

Also, "He took so long" he has always "took so long" it's how he writes. Sorry it's not instant gratification, but..

Lots of people miss the point of the series of books, it is all about how people can change, which was rushed in the TV series.
The gap between each book has got longer and longer, we're into logarithmic progression at this point. No way will they ever get actually finished.
 

Scouse

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I think Foundation is much better than Wheel of Time
Objectively (as you can be) as TV to watch Foundation is undoubtedly vastly superior.

But as an "adaptation" of the novel it is exactpy how @Zarjazz described. They've taken a sci-fi novel, stolen the names and the basic premise, then made an unrecognisable fantasy series with not only no substantive resemblance to the plot of the book but they've added book-breaking magic (!) and time travel to depict non-existant family melodrama.

It's fucking awful compared to the book.

But still better than Wheel Of Time to watch :)
 

DaGaffer

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Objectively (as you can be) as TV to watch Foundation is undoubtedly vastly superior.

But as an "adaptation" of the novel it is exactpy how @Zarjazz described. They've taken a sci-fi novel, stolen the names and the basic premise, then made an unrecognisable fantasy series with not only no substantive resemblance to the plot of the book but they've added book-breaking magic (!) and time travel to depict non-existant family melodrama.

It's fucking awful compared to the book.

But still better than Wheel Of Time to watch :)
Time travel?
 

Scouse

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Time travel?
Well, yeah. Sort of. It's an angry figure of speech. Not really time travel but a method of projecting people through time - "stasis" technology.

What were they thinking? It makes Hari's plan pointless - why bother to come up with a mathematical model when you can simply send agents into the future to execute corrective actions?

It's certainly a tech that "Empire" would have availed himself of. In fact it makes their case for a cloned and static genetic dynasty much weaker too.

But in terms of the book - the whole premise is a mathematical hail mary because they can't really 'control' - only influence.

Stasis gives direct control

Edit: And *loads* of other shit too. Loads. :(
 

dysfunction

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Objectively (as you can be) as TV to watch Foundation is undoubtedly vastly superior.

But as an "adaptation" of the novel it is exactpy how @Zarjazz described. They've taken a sci-fi novel, stolen the names and the basic premise, then made an unrecognisable fantasy series with not only no substantive resemblance to the plot of the book but they've added book-breaking magic (!) and time travel to depict non-existant family melodrama.

It's fucking awful compared to the book.

But still better than Wheel Of Time to watch :)
I didn't read those books either so all I can go on is what they have given me which is pretty decent
 

Scouse

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I didn't read those books either so all I can go on is what they have given me which is pretty decent
Completely. Maybe I would be going "this is really good" if they hadn't called it Foundation (or labelled it sci-fi) - and had simply called it something else.

But they didn't :(
 

Yoni

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Wheel of time is far from a catastrophy..... my husband has / is reading the books and he says a lot of what is shown on the screen is not in the books.. but he still wants to see it when an episode is released.
 

ECA

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Wheel of time is far from a catastrophy..... my husband has / is reading the books and he says a lot of what is shown on the screen is not in the books.. but he still wants to see it when an episode is released.
The first book is ~800 pages and they dont leave emonds field until 150 pages or so in, so they cut a lot of the character building from the village because for the tv show it doesn't have a lot of purpose, so it felt very much like they speedran and there wasn't much time for character building in the first few episodes.

Episode 4 was much better, and I'm mildly optimistic.

Amazon have already confirmed they've renewed for season 2 and 3 already so it has the time it needs to develop.
 

Scouse

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Episode 4 was much better, and I'm mildly optimistic.
I thought that too.

Thing is with character building - if you don't care about the characters then who gives a fuck about the story? It's literally the first thing on the plate tbh.
 

Gwadien

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I thought that too.

Thing is with character building - if you don't care about the characters then who gives a fuck about the story? It's literally the first thing on the plate tbh.
Like literally every large budget film/series?

What sells is the popcorn munch action/sex scenes.

And that's the reason why I don't think wheel of time is doing well.

No sex scenes.

Compared the GOT the shit character development etc is largely the same.
 

dysfunction

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I thought that too.

Thing is with character building - if you don't care about the characters then who gives a fuck about the story? It's literally the first thing on the plate tbh.
Absolutely. I don't care about any of the characters as they have no personalities.
And there are so many inconsistencies it's crazy.

You also have no concept of the world they live (is it misty woodland land all over or different landscapes?) and the distances they need to travel.
What are all the creatures that live there? Are they all at war?

It's just one big mess of a show and explains nothing to the casual watcher
 

Aoami

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The first book is ~800 pages and they dont leave emonds field until 150 pages or so in, so they cut a lot of the character building from the village because for the tv show it doesn't have a lot of purpose, so it felt very much like they speedran and there wasn't much time for character building in the first few episodes.

Episode 4 was much better, and I'm mildly optimistic.

Amazon have already confirmed they've renewed for season 2 and 3 already so it has the time it needs to develop.
I'm currently reading the first book (and loving it, actually) - Is the tv show looking like it's roughly a season per book or does it move all over the place?
 

Zarjazz

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I'm currently reading the first book (and loving it, actually) - Is the tv show looking like it's roughly a season per book or does it move all over the place?
The first four books work well to be adapted one each per season as they each have very well defined starts and storylines leading to climatic endings, so far that seems to be what they are doing. After that is becomes a lot messier and not as clear cut. The show runner wants 8 seasons, there are 14 *long* books - the first being the shortest. They will have to compress and cut-out huge swathes of the source material to achieve that. It has already been confirmed that they have completely removed one major section and set of characters from the first book and moved most of those elements to the second season.
Caemlyn and the royal house of Andor.
 

Scouse

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On EP8 of Cowboy Bebop. I'm enjoying it very much.

I think people over obsess about stuff. It's good.
 

ECA

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I'm currently reading the first book (and loving it, actually) - Is the tv show looking like it's roughly a season per book or does it move all over the place?
Yes, that's about the plan so far.
Some of the more tedious bits hopefully get massively condensed.
 

Hawkwind

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Who doesn't like Peter Kay, Phoenix Nights was bloody awesome!
 

Scouse

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Do you also enjoy Michael Mcintyre and Peter Kay?
Lol :)

Mcintyre isn't even a comedian. He's a power point presentation deliverer. He doesn't write his own material and talks only about very banal stuff.

I loved the original when I watched it ages ago. I still regularly play the theme tune at parties. But there's been a lot of hate poured on the (new live) TV series I think unnecessarily.
 

Scouse

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Who doesn't like Peter Kay, Phoenix Nights was bloody awesome!
Kay is very good at what he does. Genuinely talented. But he's not my bag.

If he's on the telly I won't take offence (whereas Mcintyre can die on his arse) and am amused at some of his stuff. But he's playing to a specific audience, and fair play to him.
 

ECA

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I loved the original when I watched it ages ago. I still regularly play the theme tune at parties. But there's been a lot of hate poured on the TV series I think unnecessarily.
Watch a few eps of the original and see if you still think so.
 

Zarjazz

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For a change I actually have a unreseved recommendation. Only 3 episodes so far but I've been very pleasantly surprised by Yellowjackets. Completely bonkers but I'm enjoying it a lot - think Lord of the Flies but with a female soccer team and everything cranked up to 11. The present day adult cast features Juliette Lewis & Christina Ricci - who are both excellent, especially the latter. Kickass 90's soundtrack too.

 

Scouse

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Watch a few eps of the original and see if you still think so.
This is the problem. Of course the original is better.

But worse than "one of my favourite all time shows" doesn't necessarily equal shite.

If the original is a 10/10 and this is worse it doesn't mean that it's a 3/10. It's a 7. And 7 is still very enjoyable.

But to humour you - I'll watch the original again over xmas and tell you what I think :)
 

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