Nasty Healer Tricks.

[Fafnir]

But then again theese classes are a good defence agaist enemy stealthers.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Assassins these days, Archers pre-1.50, Smite clerics pre-1.52 all have the same reputation for the one reason:

"Flavour of the month"

Everyone who wants to be "the best" becomes one, rolls it up, plays it as much as possible to get to the end and be "the best".

These types of people will tend not to be the nicest... Same motivation will have them begging for buffs, powerlevelling etc.
The quote "can't heal, must save mana for smite" is an example
(Not saying that ambition in itself is a bad thing but to exclude everything else for it is probably bad... it's a very selfish outlook)

Now of course there are people that rolled an archer because they want to be a bowman, or an assassin because they like being sneaky and poisonous , or heck they just liked the sound of the class name
Not all of them are 'uber of the month' gold discount card holders.

They didn't join to be "the best" they joined because it looked like fun.

 

[PJS]

Even though Im a cloth wearer, if its them or me, I choose me. I never leave anyone behind and I take this to its extreme. Ie. a level 50 tank takes all aggro to save the rest of the group, I will stay and heal him til I die even though hes loses nothing but con and I lose exp.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.chesnor

Basically those 2 classes can do little else. The reason I sympathise with Ayam is because I have been whined at by rogue classes more than anyone else in this game, by a long way.

When did you last join a group that was saying "you know, we really need a hunter, then the group would be perfect".

Archers/asassins are rolled with 1 object in mid. To gank people in RvR. They are daocs premium selfish class. they offer nothing to anyone else except the person behind the keyboard. About as different to playing a healer as you can possibly get. This is why I agree with Ayam, just....

Reason you have gotten your share of it Chesnor is that you usually talk crap. And if your about to brag about your glorious days as a healer in your so called "epic" battle with albs defending Bled...plz I've heard it before.

I used 38 days to reach lvl 50, could have done it much faster, but I soloed a lot and was happy with it. Can't really say I had any problem getting into grp if I wanted to.

There will always be some "black sheeps" and if you ask me there are very few among the high lvl hunters/assassins...there are some, but not more than compared to any other class. How do you know why ppl roll a Hunter/SB? Stating that those classes offers nothing except to the person behind the char...bah...Chesnor...sir you you are a board wannabe...

Have you ever seen a keep taken by assassin...do you know how fast it will go down. And last how many high lvl SB/Hunters do you really know??

And to the original poster ffs you had a lvl 5 grp...

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Runolaz


Reason you have gotten your share of it Chesnor is that you usually talk crap. And if your about to brag about your glorious days as a healer in your so called "epic" battle with albs defending Bled...plz I've heard it before.

I used 38 days to reach lvl 50, could have done it much faster, but I soloed a lot and was happy with it. Can't really say I had any problem getting into grp if I wanted to.

There will always be some "black sheeps" and if you ask me there are very few among the high lvl hunters/assassins...there are some, but not more than compared to any other class. How do you know why ppl roll a Hunter/SB? Stating that those classes offers nothing except to the person behind the char...bah...Chesnor...sir you you are a board wannabe...

Have you ever seen a keep taken by assassin...do you know how fast it will go down. And last how many high lvl SB/Hunters do you really know??

And to the original poster ffs you had a lvl 5 grp...

I didn't even mention Bled. In fact I have only ever mentioned that once on these boards. So your point is ?

Runolaz. You are a mistaken if you really think that people roll assassins now, or archers pre-nerf, because of what they can offer their realm. Take a look at the #s of shadowblades now, and tell me (keeping a straight face) that those people will be out scouting when they hit 50. Or taking keeps with their uber assassin brothers. Will they f**k. They'll be farming in the frontiers like they are now. EDIT: I know some don't, but most do...

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Anyway, my point was that this thread seemed to have descended into healers posting that they sympathised with Tohtori, and rogues posting how much of a bad person he was. This sums it all up. Healing is harder that you can imagine. Not because playing whackamole is particulary difficult, but because your job is keeping 7 people alive, all of the time. No mistakes, no errors in judgement. How hard do you think playing a healer is ? Compared to an assassin. Its actually really easy playing an assassin. If you mess up or go LD as a healer, 7 ppl die. What happens when the rogues mess up or go LD?....When healers mess up all we get is abuse. And I will tell you this, I HAVE MORE SH*T OFF ROGUES THAN ANY OTHER CLASS. I am not making this up, its fact. And I have healed thousands and thousands of people in this game, thousands....

EDIT : And Runolas, please reply with what exactly assassins and hunters can do for a PvE group. Thanks.

 

[inqy]

It's true. If there's someone giving me crap for the way I am playing my shammy, it's almost always gonna be a hunter/sb.

 

[Blood]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


Depending on the age of the character... old old SBs probably are nicer people than the latest crop, older Hunters will be less likely to be nice blokes than the ones being rolled now...

Glory-seekers are rather pissy

Old hunters might be bitter today, but hell i didnt start a hunter, on the day the game was released in europe, because i had read page up and down about it being uber. I wanted to be a sneaky little devil popping up and shooting my arrows at unsuspecting targets... if i had wanted to make an uber archer i would have made a slam scout, or ranger (at the time it would probably have been a scout).

I made a sb instead because with 16 spear, my hunter couldnt melee, and with see hidden, he couldnt hide. And i didnt like RvR without stealth.

 

[CliffyG]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Anyway, my point was that this thread seemed to have descended into healers posting that they sympathised with Tohtori, and rogues posting how much of a bad person he was.

Erm you seem to have not read the thread at all, the majority of healer class people said they'd heal them not let them die or chuck them out of the group.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


I didn't even mention Bled. In fact I have only ever mentioned that once on these boards. So your point is ?

If hadden't said it you would have said it yourself...

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Runolaz. You are a mistaken if you really think that people roll assassins now, or archers pre-nerf, because of what they can offer their realm. Take a look at the #s of shadowblades now, and tell me (keeping a straight face) that those people will be out scouting when they hit 50. Or taking keeps with their uber assassin brothers. Will they f**k. They'll be farming in the frontiers like they are now. EDIT: I know some don't, but most do...

Most ppl that roll assassins now are those that already have a lvl 50 and want something different. I think reason for rolling those classes is the same now as earlier. If you wanna roll the Uber RP farmer go roll a RM.

I think it's about time you played "real" doac instead of your "fantasy" doac that you are so good at explainig to us here on BW. Last saturday we popped 4 keeps in albs with 13-15SB's.

And plz tell me the differnce between solo or grp RvR in Emain it's still zerging and most often much better RP grped than solo.

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Anyway, my point was that this thread seemed to have descended into healers posting that they sympathised with Tohtori, and rogues posting how much of a bad person he was. This sums it all up.

Well I can also see that many others incl. healer classes think he went too far. The way he did I would have left the grp with any of my chars.

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Healing is harder that you can imagine. Not because playing whackamole is particulary difficult, but because your job is keeping 7 people alive, all of the time. No mistakes, no errors in judgement. How hard do you think playing a healer is ?

I wouldn't know would I...even though I play my friends lvl 50 healer and lvl 45 Shaman??

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Compared to an assassin. Its actually really easy playing an assassin. If you mess up or go LD as a healer, 7 ppl die. What happens when the rogues goes LD?....When healers mess up all we get is abuse. And I will tell you this, I HAVE MORE SH*T OFF ROGUES THAN ANY OTHER CLASS. I am not making this up, its fact. And I have healed thousands and thousands of people in this game, thousands....

Could it be that it is a long time since you actually played???

 

[old.Ayam Ganbatte]

Originally posted by old.moriath
Define spoilt .. you mean the people behind them in real life or spoiled as a class.

if its point one how can you possibly tell (I agree some of them have an elitist attitude, mainly the ones who reached 50 in a couple of months from release and then proceeded to gain x million rp before the nerf bat struck. But i only know a couple here still that fall into that category) and point two I will refer you to the nerf bat that hunters as a class have been hit with pretty much every patch in one way or another.

Also i think if you get a rogue to lvl 50 you can be justified in feeling proud of your achievement because as i stated before they are the hardest class's to lvl in the game.

And i know some nice SB's too ... don't judge everyone by the Azal's of this world.

By spoilt, I do mean 'pi**y' as some people have used the word, as much as it makes me sound like a valley-girl, on both points actually.

I think it's clear where I stand on stealthers. I'll be one of the bad guys of the thread, persecuting the poor defenceless stealthers. I think in terms of RvR utility, they -could- be damn useful but too often they fall into the 'Sinister Sniper RP-hungry' category. Then again you could argue most pbaoe-types are as well, so I see where the failings of my argument are.

Ironically enough I'm not a huge fan of Azal either, his grating shouty attitude is indicative of the control freaks that -I assume- shadowblades -tend- to be but in his defence he is the -only- shadowblade I've noticed that has stayed behind to protect me when I've been trying to regenerate mana (a keep take-over once in Hibernia I recall).

 

[old.chesnor]

CliffyG, I stand by what I said. Most people who play Healers and posted here (and have levelled healers rather than borrowed their friends to run around Emain for half an hour) will sympathise with Tohtoris dilemma. Most of the "you are lame" replies came from people with lowb healer alts or people who expect the people who heal them to be supermen who never get it wrong.

Runolaz, I am not going to argue with you. I still play this game lots, my main is healer. In fact if you add the levels I have done with healers now its well over 100. I have spent more time playing my healers in this game than you spent dinging your SB to 50. That puts me in a better position than you to discuss healing, healers and heals. Thanks.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


EDIT : And Runolas, please reply with what exactly assassins and hunters can do for a PvE group. Thanks.

Well hands down other chars could make the grp marginaly better on paper, but it all comes down to the skill of the person behind the chars. In general even with equal skill and lvl, a grp with 1-2 Hunter/SB will get the same amout of XP and fun, as a grp without them, so why keep beating the "dead horse".

And about what an assassin can do for a grp...hmm...have you ever tried a SB's with lets say dodger II in a PBAE grp in lair? Once you have come back and tell me what you found out.

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Runolaz, I am not going to argue with you. I still play this game lots, my main is healer. In fact if you add the levels I have done with healers now its well over 100. I have spent more time playing my healers in this game than you spent dinging your SB to 50. That puts me in a better position than you to discuss healing, healers and heals. Thanks.

Well I think your are a sad git, and I really qustion if you play doac these days at all. Even though you say you do I don't belive it b4 I can see it.

I think you base your fact on your experiance with everybody beeing new to doac in the early days, because I really struggle to find a Hunter/SB to fit your description. I have met mabye 1 or 2, but thats tops. Off Course I have had my trial and error as I was new to the game too, but I quite fast found out what works and what doesn't in a grp.

 

[-dewey-]

Healers and assassins/hunters. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. When you choose that class at lvl5, you are basically saying as a healer "I want to keep people alive". As a archer/assassin you are saying "I want to kill people."

Archers/asassins are rolled with 1 object in mid. To gank people in RvR. They are daocs premium selfish class. they offer nothing to anyone else except the person behind the keyboard. About as different to playing a healer as you can possibly get. This is why I agree with Ayam, just....

My hunter was the first char I ever created, I played him from day 1, I knew NOTHING about how the game worked and how good certain classes where at RvR, hell at around level 20 I thought hunters would be crap in RvR from my PvE expierences. I continued to play my Hunter because I liked it, I still play my Hunter because I like it. I didn't create my Hunter to go gank all day long and be "uber" I did it because I thought it would be fun. You think it's fun to solo level after level because people think I'm only playing a Hunter to own in RvR and they don't want to group with someone so selfish?

What if you found someone, on say a public forum, claiming that everyone who plays your, extremely hard class to level, is spoilt. What if that same person was telling people how he/she will gladly let that class die in a group, abusing their responsibilty as a healer and group member if you will, because of some childish prejudice? How would you feel about a person who supposedly created his/her character to help other people but will go out of his/her way to make sure a certain class does NOT have fun playing the game. I may be going off on a tangent here but doesn't that class as harassment? The infamous CoC states this;

Users are expected to show respect for one another, to contribute to the cordial atmosphere of the game. Harassment of another person, insults or remarks made with the aim of hurting another person will not be tolerated.

To me what has been posted in this thread is a blatent confession to breaking the CoC.

anyway, since some people in this thread are making stupid,unjustified and down right idiotic generalisations I'll jump on the bandwagon and make a few too.

1.) Healers don't give a fuck about other people, they only play healers so they can level up fast, I know this is true because... ermmmm.... it's my opinion and I MUST be right
2.) All runemasters swear alot, I know this beacause I grouped with one who swore all the time
3.) All people who have names beginning with "Ay" and ending in "am" are ignorant bastards whose fingers can type without ANY input from the brain whatsoever

Let's make these abit more generalised.....

4.) All people who use the internet have no lives and spend all the time looking at porno, I know this because I friend told me he knew a guy like that
5.) All women are bad drivers, I know this because I heard some drunk guys saying it, if you see a women driving well they are just lucky and I would leave the area quickly as their luck will run out soon and result in a massive crash

Ok, now to bring these on par with some of the others in this thread.

6.) Everyone who watches MTV is going to get cancer, I know this because I saw it in a dream.

 

[CliffyG]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
CliffyG, I stand by what I said. Most people who play Healers and posted here (and have levelled healers rather than borrowed their friends to run around Emain for half an hour) will sympathise with Tohtoris dilemma. Most of the "you are lame" replies came from people with lowb healer alts or people who expect the people who heal them to be supermen who never get it wrong.

You may well stand by what you said but it might be a good idea to read the replies instead of talking shite. You don't have to have played a healer to know what to do anyway, it's a question of ethics but as I and quite a few healer type people have already said they wouldn't do what you have done.

 

[old.chesnor]

lol, this is getting flamy. Good. <dons flameproof suit>

Runolaz. Nice that you decide to personally insult me. When you start the personal insults, you lose the argument and your subsequent opinions are ignored.

Dewey. I have played this game long enough now to know that not EVERY archer/asassins is a selfish player. Some play for the reasons you specify, some for others. But a lot play because they want to be uber in RvR, and want to get there as quickly as possible, and don't really care who they annoy along the way.

CliffyG. Read my first post carefully. I would do all I could to save any member of the group, class doesn't matter. What I wouldn't do is risk an entire group wipeout just to save 1 person, whatever class they are. The fact that in Tohtoris case it was a hunter means nothing. If the choice is between spamming heals on a hunter getting aggroed by a purp++++++ or continuing to heal the group fighting the pull, the hunter will be the sacficial lamb. Like it or not. If you disagree, then your 30 seasons of healing hav'nt taught you much.

 

[ButaneBob]

Originally posted by Runolaz


Well I think your are a sad git, and I really qustion if you play doac these days at all.

..blardy blaa

hehe at last i found sum1 lamer than me!

WOOT!

Bob

PS Chesnor does play DaOC - I know cos he gave me 100 gp last week which I blew it on black dye for my studded lether ROFL!

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
lol, this is getting flamy. Good. <dons flameproof suit>

Runolaz. Nice that you decide to personally insult me. When you start the personal insults, you lose the argument and your subsequent opinions are ignored.

Dewey. I have played this game long enough now to know that not EVERY archer/asassins is a selfish player. Some play for the reasons you specify, some for others. But a lot play because they want to be uber in RvR, and want to get there as quickly as possible, and don't really care who they annoy along the way.

CliffyG. Read my first post carefully. I would do all I could to save any member of the group, class doesn't matter. What I wouldn't do is risk an entire group wipeout just to save 1 person, whatever class they are. The fact that in Tohtoris case it was a hunter means nothing. If the choice is between spamming heals on a hunter getting aggroed by a purp++++++ or continuing to heal the group fighting the pull, the hunter will be the sacficial lamb. Like it or not. If you disagree, then your 30 seasons of healing hav'nt taught you much.

Yeah...I like insulting you. There is a simple reason for that, and you know it. Ever since this forum opened up on BW you steadily insult ppl that play archer/asassins classes. You paint a picture that most of us cannot relate too. Have you looked at the RP/class lately? And as far as ppl lvling goes, the SB/Hunters that wanna get to lvl 50 fast they jump off at lvl 15-20 and re-roll as a healer. Btw...isn't the healer one of the classes that have the lowest lvl50/played in this game?

The grp in question was a lvl 5 grp...and he didn't even try amnesia, you as an expert healer as you claim yourself to be should at least come up with that. Instead of pointing on what they could have done better, like the tanks and healer actually doing their job, you go "Hunter/SB = let them die". I have never in any of my chars seen a healer/shaman act like this, or have I seen a grp whiped out because a SB/Hunter suckes upp all heals I find that strange.

 

[CliffyG]

Originally posted by old.chesnor
CliffyG. Read my first post carefully. I would do all I could to save any member of the group, class doesn't matter. What I wouldn't do is risk an entire group wipeout just to save 1 person, whatever class they are. The fact that in Tohtoris case it was a hunter means nothing. If the choice is between spamming heals on a hunter getting aggroed by a purp++++++ or continuing to heal the group fighting the pull, the hunter will be the sacficial lamb. Like it or not. If you disagree, then your 30 seasons of healing hav'nt taught you much.

Actually my 30 seasons have taught me much, just cos i don't subscribe to your ideas doesn't make me a worse player. In every situation i've been in where we've been in trouble where group wipeout was possibly on the cards letting one die would hardly ever have made a difference whether we all died or all lived. If i have to run and come back and rez or release and come back and rez doesn't matter to me as long as i've done my best to keep everyone in the group alive.

 

[old.chesnor]

Actually Runolas, I said this.....

About the hunter thing. I have been in this position loads of times. If hunters get aggro (they shouldn't, hunters with aggro means pisspoor hunter or pisspor tanks) then you got to look at the situation carefully. If you can save him, do it. If you are likely to get aggroed yourself because of the heals, and you getting aggroed means you will die/the group will die, then sacrifice the hunter. Whats the problem?

Never said "all hunters/sbs must die" anywhere. So please stfu.

And if one of your group is aggroed by a mob, and before anyone has actually hit it, amnesia will do f**k all. So, again, please stfu.


And CliffyG. I don't quite understand where you're coming from. All I said was I would try to save everyone, regardless of class. But if it was a choice between a futile attempt to save someone who is doomed which would mean more die, or keeping the remaining 7 people alive, I know what I would do. I suggest you heal for more than 30 seasons before telling me my job. Thanks.

 

[CliffyG]

I'm not telling you how to do your job or how to do anything for that matter, like i said before try reading the thread before posting shite. I have plenty of experience of healing in this game and from my days in everquest and like i said before:

In every situation i've been in where we've been in trouble where group wipeout was possibly on the cards letting one die would hardly ever have made a difference whether we all died or all lived.


If you want to let people die then by all means do it, i'd rather not.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by CliffyG
I'm not telling you how to do your job or how to do anything for that matter, like i said before try reading the thread before posting shite. I have plenty of experience of healing in this game and from my days in everquest and like i said before:

In every situation i've been in where we've been in trouble where group wipeout was possibly on the cards letting one die would hardly ever have made a difference whether we all died or all lived.


If you want to let people die then by all means do it, i'd rather not.

Precisely why you need a few more seasons healing in this game under your belt. If you havn't been in the situation Tohtori describes, you will be. And hopefully your group will be more tolerant and understanding than you are when you have to make an unpopular decision. Although your moral standpoint is honourable, things just aren't as black and white as that. Sometimes, you just gotta do the wrong thing to do the right thing, and sometimes doing the right thing is the wrong thing to do.

btw keep 'em coming, I'm enjoying this thread

 

[CliffyG]

I have been in that situation before, why have you assumed otherwise? Sometimes we all live sometimes some/all die. I'll happily release if needed and come back and rez everyone. Judging by the responses on this thread thats the opinion of most other people too.

Anyway back to the main post, at level 6-10 the amount of xp lost is so little i can't believe that tactic was even considered.

 

[liste]

excuse me, if i repeat someone, but this just got unbearable to read after 4th post, or so.

This is the respond, that you will get from horrible players, in said classes.

Healers:
These people never get credit if they do well, and always gets abuse if they are powerless to do good (low on power, up against a dragon or something equally nasty). There WILL be situations, where a healer may be forced to take such a decision, as described in this thread. Tanks dont take aggro, mez fails, too many mobs. etc. Its not a particularly nice decision to be faced with, but there you have it. dont abuse your healer for it (of course, there will ALSO be horrible healers, who just dont have a clue ).

Rogues:
Vastly reknown by the public to be group-unfriendly and such, these will be ignored, kicked out, sacrificed, abused, the list goes on, by anyone who doesnt have a clue.
If the rogue in question has ANY clue what he is doing, he is a very valuable asset to any group. Assassins have a MEAN damage output, especially at later levels. Archers have their bow, which can deal a good damage on a safe distance. Scouts have shield for guarding, hunters have a spear -which im told does NASTY damage with a high spec- and a pet for tricky situations, and Rangers have dual wield, and self buffs (hunters too? not sure) that will safe conc from the healer.

i am one of the 'old ones' that started leveling with 2.0 skill points and a broken evade, and even then, i often acted as main tank, in lack of plate users. Yes. it requires a good healer. but if you have that, you CAN be main tank, and you can quite often be a very good one too. no slow weapons that will get the casters killed 3 seconds before you can hit it. envenom and stabs, are nasty for aggro. line up PA, and your wizard can start nuking without being nervous.
if there is a 'real' tank present, rogues do well protecting the soft members. we have fast taunts and a good damage output. with the tank taking the heat, you can easily plot off and take the purple con on you, until the tank is ready to take it from you.


I always saw it as my duty to self-sacrifice to save someone else, if it was needed. it is the same duty for any melee class, who has the slightest chance of letting the rezzer get away.

Generalizing people on their class, is not only stupid, it is also narrow-minded, up-tight, arrogant and vastly discriminating.

I've met MANY tanks, that did far worse than i ever did on a bad day. Its who is behind the screen, that matters. Little else

 

[old.Tohtori]

Again, want to clear a few things like i've had to do a few times.

Amnesia wasn't an option, it was a battle in progress.

It happened to be a hunter, it could have been any. No "rasism" from me towards classes thank you very much.

The thread(gods know it never is totally on topic after first 4 posts or so) was about a choice and what you would do. Not about how healers are misunderstood and hunters/sbs's are crap, never said that.

There, now go on and continue the flame fest

 

[-dewey-]

Generalizing people on their class, is not only stupid, it is also narrow-minded, up-tight, arrogant and vastly discriminating.

I've met MANY tanks, that did far worse than i ever did on a bad day. Its who is behind the screen, that matters. Little else

/cheer

 

[old.chesnor]

Okay, I am not gonna post anymore. Like banging my head against a brick wall.

Tohtori, I think you did the right thing mate. You saved your group. Good man After all, that is the ultimate job of a healer. Shame the hunter had to die, but hey. Like Dr. Spock said in Star Wars "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" or was it "the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many". I dunno.

 

[Sharma]

simple solution, if a healer pisses you off just spam NI!

 

[liste]

my post was not directed at you, Tohtori. I dont know wether or not you really did the right thing or not. I just stated, that sometimes, healers WILL be faced with that decision.

My post was largely aimed at whatever happened after 4th post

 

[Gandir]

I just say offer the few for the manny!